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Elites, are they made better?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I'm currently pondering when I get my 360 back to trade it in and get an Elite. So I have a few questions if someone can help me:

1. Did MS do anything to improve the Elites in terms of curbing the over-heating issue?

2. Is there any threads you now of talking about RRoD on Elites?

3. Is there a place today that has a decent 360 trade-in program when moving up to an Elite?

Thanks.
post #2 of 25
wait till 65mn units comes out. At least that what I am going to do. maybe another 5 - 6 month wait.

GameStop or Ebay
post #3 of 25
I'll have to say that my elite is quieter then my May-06 vintage original 360 that just bit the dist on me, but I cant comment on over heating as my old one only did so twice before a ram chip failed. Past that, not much I can tell you. You'd probably want ti wait until 65nm unless you have some issue that forces you to go ahead an buy one.

You're also better off selling your 360 on Crag's list or E-bay then trading it in. You'll get another $100 out of it.
post #4 of 25
The elite is perfect for stealthy night time missions. I used to play my 360 all the time while on assignment, but the white finish always gave my position away. Now, I have no problem thanks to the sleek jet black look. Thanks xbox elite!

All kidding aside, the elites are slightly more durable than the current 360s. The problem with the originals was that they'd get so hot that the chips would warp and 'pop off' ever so slightly, failing to make a connection (hence the 'towel trick', which kind of allows the chips to warp back into place, temporarily). The new elite's boards are covered with a special epoxy keeping all the chips firmly in place. They are still using the old hitachi dvd drives though, so it won't be any quieter. Whirrrrrrrr...

EDIT: I mean to say that the motherboard warps causing the chips to 'pop off'. The new chips have some epoxy covering them, so theoretically this problem should no longer occur.
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope View Post

I'm currently pondering when I get my 360 back to trade it in and get an Elite. So I have a few questions if someone can help me:

1. Did MS do anything to improve the Elites in terms of curbing the over-heating issue?

2. Is there any threads you now of talking about RRoD on Elites?

3. Is there a place today that has a decent 360 trade-in program when moving up to an Elite?

Thanks.

Thanks for reading my mind.. I dont know why.. but for some reason I just want the Elite..

I've been thinking about selling mine on Ebay and buying one from Costco.. I figure thats the best way to warranty it
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
^ Yup.

Also thanks Thrillhouse that is what I wanted to know. "The new elite's boards are covered with a special epoxy keeping all the chips firmly in place."

I wanted some reassurance that they did SOMETHING. I'm most likely going to do this and as mentioned get it from Costco to be sure. If I knew of the 65mn release date I would ponder that...
post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope View Post

^ Yup.

Also thanks Thrillhouse that is what I wanted to know. "The new elite's boards are covered with a special epoxy keeping all the chips firmly in place."

I wanted some reassurance that they did SOMETHING. I'm most likely going to do this and as mentioned get it from Costco to be sure. If I knew of the 65mn release date I would ponder that...

65nm

They won't release a date, they'll just start making them. Eventually some one will figure out when they start and post a serial number.
post #8 of 25
I don't think they covered the entire motherboard, just the cpu and gpu. Check out this thread. You can see the larger epoxy area around the cpu and gpu. It looks like dark green dashed lines at the 4 corners and in the middle of each edge.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=40677
post #9 of 25
The epoxy is little more than voodoo.

Put it this way, the warping is significant enough to weaken and seperate solder (and Thrillhouse17, its the motherboard that warps, not the chip). A little bit of glue that is applied to a laminate is simply not going to be substantual enough to stop failures (might aswell glue it to Teflon) the best it can do is slow the rot.

No-one should put any faith in the Elites being more reliable. They still share the same flawed design as their predecessors, except now they have a band-aid covering their gaping wound.
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
^ Yeah I just did a bunch of reading on this and the Elite's change is highly questionable. If I kept it enclosed in a 50 degree box do you think that would do the trick in most cases?
post #11 of 25
Fahrenheit, you're right. I explained it wrong, and edited my post. I suggest clicking the link steve68 gave, as you can see pictures comparing the two 360s.
post #12 of 25
Well the circuit board is completely redesined, you can see different components, moved traces etc etc. Caps are smaller in many cases.

Did anyone measure the thickness? You have to think that Microsoft did something to the board to reduce warping.

As much as many hate microsoft, they can't be stupid enough to redesign the circuity board and not address warping at the same time. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
post #13 of 25
I'd say they are made about the same...
post #14 of 25
There was already a technical analysis done by some site.

The Elite board not only has the HANA scaler chip with HDMI output.. but it has significantly less transistors and caps on the board. There are pictures that show the two boards side by side and there are clearly many things missing and reduced in size.

For someone to say they are the same hasnt seen the pictures and simply making assumptions.

http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/i..._360_elite.htm





Another thing I just noticed is the CPU fan pin went from a 3pin to a 4 pin design.
post #15 of 25
Im curious about something. Even doing the X clamp mod fix. If the board is still able to warp. Wouldnt that fix still cause failure somewhere within in the mobo?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

The epoxy is little more than voodoo.

Put it this way, the warping is significant enough to weaken and seperate solder (and Thrillhouse17, its the motherboard that warps, not the chip). A little bit of glue that is applied to a laminate is simply not going to be substantual enough to stop failures (might aswell glue it to Teflon) the best it can do is slow the rot.

No-one should put any faith in the Elites being more reliable. They still share the same flawed design as their predecessors, except now they have a band-aid covering their gaping wound.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Another thing I just noticed is the CPU fan pin went from a 3pin to a 4 pin design.

That's the noise reduction solution...
It must work well when you cold start it...
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by utcpyro View Post

I'll have to say that my elite is quieter then my May-06 vintage original 360 that just bit the dist on me, but I cant comment on over heating as my old one only did so twice before a ram chip failed. Past that, not much I can tell you. You'd probably want ti wait until 65nm unless you have some issue that forces you to go ahead an buy one.

You're also better off selling your 360 on Crag's list or E-bay then trading it in. You'll get another $100 out of it.

Not always. GameCrazy is giving $275 trade credit. That's not bad.
post #18 of 25
my elite stop reading disc tonite, after i went out and bought the 360 wheel for forza2 that comes out tomorrow.
post #19 of 25
To me it looks like there is only 1 less cap than the non elite version (look towards the lower left). All the other caps are there just either smaller or slightly moved. Don't believe me, count them. They did lower the number of mosfets, and changed the windings and orientation of the toroids, along with some changes to surface mount resistors. I can't find where, but I read that the CPU and GPU were NOT the reason for the excess heat, but instead it was the memory. So don't expect the die shrink to do much with heat (less is always better) even though they will reduce the amount of heat slightly. Hopefully MS can source some cooler running memory. Also I think the elite has a 2 prong plug for the power supply instead of the 3 prong grounded plug. I don't have an elite so I can't confirm this.
post #20 of 25
I just hooked up my Elite which replaced my Premium (which replaced my launch unit).

My Elite is definitely quieter than my last Premium. At idle, the Elite is very quiet whereas my Premium exhibited this drone which varied in loudness...dove me crzay! When reading a disc, the Elite still isn't what I call quiet, but it is quieter than my Premium.

Hopefully this Elite will be more reliable than my two Premiums. My launch system died 4 months ago and my Premium died last week. Boo for MS quality control but props to Costco for their great return policy
post #21 of 25
'Quietness' is not up for debate here and has no bearing on reliability. The extraction fans found in the 360's come from three different manufacturers and some (the Nidecs) are superior in low noise emission to the others. Likewise, the DVD-ROM drives differ from sample to sample. Other than the motherboard itself, the Elites share these common components with the Cores/Premiums. How loud/quiet a new Elite is, has absolutely zip to do with its quality of design. Consider it an acoustic lottery.

The big issues are -

A: The x-clamps. These are a major problem and remain unchanged in the Elites design.
B: The quality of the materials and construction of the PCB (the motherboard itself).

'B' remains a bit of a mystery at this point and that could simply be down to the fact that the consoles haven't landed in the right hands (ie. someone willing to do the investigative work). There have been many many cases reported of Elites failing, we can only assume from this that the console's boards are just as poorly made as their predecessors. MS have taken steps, but those in the know are clearly saying that it simply doesn't go far enough.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausdaddy View Post

Not always. GameCrazy is giving $275 trade credit. That's not bad.

Just checked sir and you are right.. but its $275 credit only part sucks. Not so much because I cant spend it anywhere else.. but because they are out of stock of Elites.

The guy said we could call around to other stores and special order ship it IF we found one in stock.. but that would take time to find it another store.. and you (meaning the customer) would have to pay shipping.

HDDVD add on is worth $90 in credit too..

If I can find a Gamecrazy with an Elite.. I'm trading my old Premium and HDDVD add on.. and picking up an Elite for only $115 + shipping.

The upscaling HDMI ability of the Elite alone is worth losing the HDDVD addon in my book.
post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
^ I just checked to see if there are any in my area Gamecrazy's in general that is, I'm in luck but now the issue as you say do they have anything I want in stock? Aren't there supposed to be White Elites on the horizon or is that a rumor?
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

'Quietness' is not up for debate here and has no bearing on reliability...How loud/quiet a new Elite is, has absolutely zip to do with its quality of design. Consider it an acoustic lottery.

Well then I guess I won the lottery
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by HorrorScope View Post

^ I just checked to see if there are any in my area Gamecrazy's in general that is, I'm in luck but now the issue as you say do they have anything I want in stock? Aren't there supposed to be White Elites on the horizon or is that a rumor?

The white Elite is still just a rumor.
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