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D-Sonic custom Audio amps - Page 39

post #1141 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

May I ask what Interconnects are you going to use ? I use Audioquest Colorado's

Guitar Center house brand XLRs
post #1142 of 1260
I have the M2-600M mono's all hook up & running. Very, very impressed with my early listening session. I think this Class D stuff is here to stay. My 1st biggest impression was the sheer "openness" of the music. The soundstage has definitely expanded from what I'm used to & the clarity is amazing. It's as if the music has more layers to it. Very happy camper here. Now back to more listening.
post #1143 of 1260
I just ordered the demo M2-600M monos and look forward to hearing some magic again. I fried my venerable Atma-sphere OTLs last month and think I may have a rational alternative to the high cost of repair (thousands), maintenance(lots o tubes to replace) and operation ($1.75/hr all the time they are on. These are for a pretty nice music system and need to bring some magic to the game.
post #1144 of 1260
does anyone know which oem d-sonic currently uses?

someone mentioned abletec, but it does not appear there are any modules they are using that would fit into the offerings that d-sonic have.
post #1145 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

does anyone know which oem d-sonic currently uses?
someone mentioned abletec, but it does not appear there are any modules they are using that would fit into the offerings that d-sonic have.

They use B&O ICE Modules or are you asking about something else?
post #1146 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

They use B&O ICE Modules or are you asking about something else?

i think i just read wrong somewhere that he was using hypex or some other brand of amplifiers, just wanted to double check what he is currently using

all his current m2 series amps don't have any ice power silkscreen as they used to as well.
post #1147 of 1260
They really are not ICE amps. I quote from the recent 6Moons review of the M2-1500M, "A number[of other amps] are based on popular B&O ICEpower but the M2-1500M under review use a different core." What that core is has been kept under Mr. Deacon's hat even though the rave review is 4 months old. When I was talking with him a few days ago (while paying him for a pair of M2-600m amps), he was quite happy to talk about how good the new core was but would not identify its vendor. Sensing that he probably was enjoying the mystery about his latest design, I checked my curiosity and did not ask. He laughed when I told him I would not ask. I understand his desire to keep some things to himself. It's his business to promote his products as much or little as he sees fit.

I bought these amps from him based on high expectations that they will give me outstanding sound in a fairly substantial turntable-based music system, replacing a pair of recently murdered atma-sphere OTLs that I cannot afford to have repaired. I really don't care which module he is using; I made my decision to buy these amps based on the reputation his amps have on the various forums as much as the latest review. My goal for my system is outstanding sound - not identical sound to my beloved, dearly departed OTLs.

I just want to listen to the music. Let the man have his fun while it lasts. I'm sure that some enterprising 'phile somewhere will soon figure it out. I suspect personally that abletec's websites (including new subsidiary Anaview) haven't put any new photos up sine their merger last year. Hmmmm.
post #1148 of 1260
They really are not ICE amps. I quote from the recent 6Moons review of the M2-1500M, "A number are based on popular B&O ICEpower but the M2-1500M under review use a different core." What that core is has been kept under Mr. Deacon's hat even though the rave review is 4 months old. When I was talking with him a few days ago (while paying him for a pair of M@-600m amps), he was quite happy to talk about how good the new core was but would not identify its vendor. Sensing that he probably was enjoying the mystery about his latest design, I checked my curiosity and did not ask. I understand his desire to keep some things to himself. It's his business to promote his products as much or little as he sees fit.

I bought these amps from him based on high expectations that they will give me outstanding sound in a fairly substantial turntable-based music system, replacing a pair of recently murdered atma-sphere OTLs that I cannot afford to have repaired. I really don't care which module he is using; I made my decision to buy these amps based on the reputation his amps have on the various forums as much as the latest review. My goal for my system is outstanding sound - not identical sound to my beloved, dearly departed OTLs.

I just want to listen to the music. Let the man have his fun while it lasts. I'm sure that some enterprising 'phile somewhere will soon figure it out. I suspect personally that abletec's websites (including new subsidiary Anaview) haven't put any new photos up sine their merger last year. Hmmmm.
post #1149 of 1260
Secrets shmeecrets, I'm very curious and would really like for Derek to chime in.
post #1150 of 1260
I just wanted to post my impressions of the D-Sonic M2-1500M mono blocks. I have owned a pair of ICE Power ASP1000 based amps for a couple of years, the Acoustic Reality 1001-ref, and truly enjoy the benefits of the class D technology. Lots of power, 500 wpc/8 ohms in the case of my older amps, neutral and open sound, impressive fast bass, great imaging and details and a small form factor. The low heat is a big bonus too, especially during the summer. I have owned quite good class A/B power amps, and while they can shine in some aspects, they simply can't match class D in most ways. I'm also used to having all that power that brings dynamics to a whole new level, lots of power does magic to the peaks in the music, especially when playing loud.

With that said, how do the M2-1500M compare to my older amps? The short answer is that they are FANTASTIC! D-Sonic truly have a winner here, they sound amazing in every way. You get all the good stuff from ICE amps, but on steroids. smile.gif They sound even more detailed, yet more refined. Voices and instruments get more texture and sound more alive than with the ICE amps. I think this is what some solid state defenders have against class D amps, they claim that they sound sterile and somewhat dead. Though I really don't agree with this, it's certainly a difference between my old ICE amps and the D-Sonic amps in that aspect. Everything sounds more alive and for the first time, including with older SS amps, the performers sound like they are in my room. They are a bit more bass heavy than the ICE amps too, which is a bonus for me, since I think the ICE amps sounded a bit too thin in MY room. Over all the sound is a bit more organic without loosing details or dynamics. The size of the soundstage is gigantic. And all that power, 1500 wpc in 8 ohms! They play music at any volume effortless. If you're looking for amps in this price range, be sure to not overlook these killer amps. I have simply nothing bad to write about them.
post #1151 of 1260
I got my pair of the M2-600M mono-blocks on Monday and have doing some preliminary listening. These amps are a huge direction change for me as they are replacing a beloved pair of glorious sounding triode powered OTL amps that I have had since new more than 20 years ago. The fan went out on my power regenerator causing its internal amp to produce a crazy voltage put my amps into cardioid arrest. Being prematurely retired leaves me with far less money for stereo gear now compared to when I bought most of my equipment. I guessed that it would cost me at least $2-3k for repairs including shipping, etc. and set on the journey to get my system singing again. Ads for Bel Canto, Nuforce, Wyred4sound and other class d amps got me curious enough to actually try a pair of D-Sonic's latest generation amps to hopefully fill in for my dead Atma-Spheres. My hope is that they can at least capture some of the magic, but realistically, no one can expect them to play in the same league much less the same ballpark as tube amps that cost nearly 4 times as much before considering inflation.

After 2 days listening, I am delighted at just how good these amps do sound. For now, I am busy trying to set the system up from scratch to wring the most performance i can get from them. Their tiny footprint allowed me to replace the amp stands behind my speakers with petite Granite-topped end tables that are easy to move and walk behind. But moving things around introduced a hum from my phono stage. I sorted that out by moving positions between the preamp and its power supply - the phono preamp hates being within 3 feet of an M2-600M amp. All my recent memories of my system before are from when the system drew its juice from power regenerator. I have another one in the HT system that will now be promoted to the music system before I even try to do any critical listening. I haven't even begun the madness of swapping power cords in and out. I suspect that the granite tables that support the new amps present modification opportunities to control vibrations to the amps such as spiking their feet, inserting some kind of damping collar between the granite slab & the wooden table legs. .

Until I finish all the work left to do before I can say the amps are setup as well as I can, I can only offer first impressions of this amp. I have to keep telling myself that over and over in order to prevent making a fool of myself gushing all over the page like a teenager falling in love. If I cannot stay analytical and critical, I will not be able to get it set up. Also, these amps were DEMO units that Mr. Deacon had loaned to someone in California, and subsequently drop-shipped to me. As such, I have absolutely no Idea how many hours they have been played before. I assume that they were played long enough to be fully broken in. I hope so, else all the setup work & listening I am doing this week (plenty!) is wasted time. With that in mind, these are some of my first impressions with the new amps.

Start easy with a CD with some sweet, intimate bass. These class D amps came up through the minor leagues as bass & sub-woofer amps. Give them a project. Paul Chambers "Bass on Top." 1st track shows one of the finest performances ever of bowed jazz double-bass. In my car with 8-speaker Bose junk it sounds like a zither. With the D-Sonics in their first song, I almost cried. The bass is very well-defined and conveys music's emotional content as well as the sonic performance. It seems deeper too. I think that a few rounds of speaker repositioning are in order.

The detail level when playing these amps is breathtaking. I need to readjust my thinking about detail reproduction and its importance in reproducing musical performances, not just music. I like detail as much as the next guy, but it has never been as important to me as timbre, pace, speed, transient response, and other system qualities. I guess it's cool to hear the musicians occasionally moving their chairs or turning pages of their scores. Some details I would rather do without, whether at a concert or at home. Keith Jarrett's little singing voice while he plays piano can be annoying while I try to follow the music. These amps redefine detail presentation to a degree that makes me think I have been missing something important. I have collected a few really nice sounding percussion & drum records and decided to try one of my favorites for the first vinyl played on the new amps - All Star Percussion Band. Classical music played by virtuoso performers who really get into the whole drum thing. These amps have no trouble with any of the sores of instruments banged, pounded, scraped, struck, rung or thrown on the floor. Delicate nuances and near eternal overtones are all there in spades, but what stunned me was how much more musical information they actually present than I have heard previously in my and others' systems. While listening to a passage where large metallic, tubular pipes were being struck by a hard wooden mallet, I thought something rather odd was happening at the exact time of each strike. The transient attack seemed longer, more drawn out than I was accustomed to hearing and there seemed to be a lower-level dull thud as part of the sonic message for that space & time. The mystery sound did not detract in any way from the gorgeous bloom of sound as it left the tube and entered the air for the mike to pick up, but it did require attention. I replayed the band and tried to focus on what was happening at the time of each strike. It seems that the low level sound is actually the sound produced by the mallets being struck by a large metal tube! Further listening to other percussion instruments on this and other albums showed that the phenomenon was not restricted to expensive, ultra-high quality audiophile showoff records. Vibs, celeste, maraccas, drums of all sorts and materials give up their secrets to these amps. I suspect that this kind of detail is actually available on many, if not most, records, but gets lost in the huge level swing when reproducing the full acoustic content of transient attacks. The detail reproduction power of this design seems able to free the lower level complementary sound made by the strikee on the striker just as you hear in the real world.

Overall, my first impressions are that these are very exiting amps that seem to do just about everything very well. Their sound is very different from the big tube sound that I am accustomed to, but not in any bad way. The music they make is beautiful; their soundstage is nearly holographic. Detail retrieval is so good that I think I might be able to finally hear the lyrics from "Louie Louie". More to come after I have the system set up a little better.
post #1152 of 1260
^^^^^

@mcbuddah,
Great write-up, looking forward to reading about your additional impressions.
post #1153 of 1260
looking forward to someone popping their amps opened and taking a snap shot of whats inside,
with the icepowered amps, lots of manufacturers were just plugging the stock 1000asp into the case and saying it was highly modified, but turned out to be only input and output wiring and different jacks and terminals compared to each other.
post #1154 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

looking forward to someone popping their amps opened and taking a snap shot of whats inside,
with the icepowered amps, lots of manufacturers were just plugging the stock 1000asp into the case and saying it was highly modified, but turned out to be only input and output wiring and different jacks and terminals compared to each other.

6moons describe the inside and they have published photos as well:


As you can see D-Sonic have put a custom board there.

In the case of the different ICE Power-based solutions you're absolutely right, that's the truth in many cases (not all) and therefore it makes sense to buy one of the cheaper alternatives if you're looking for an ICE amp. smile.gif I think D-Sonic represents good value in that case.
post #1155 of 1260
Thanks, laulau. I am really happy pleased at how these amps perform. I read elsewhere that they may need several hundred hours to break in and sound their best so I am mostly letting them sing to each other all day with CD's on a repeat loop. Every one in a while I throw on a record or two to hear how they are doing. After 100 hours (that I know of - they were purchased from factory as demos), they are starting to sound more revealing & detailed if that is possible. This transparency is mind-boggling on many recordings.

A few days ago I heard some nasties in the treble region when playing a jazz combo number that built to a really rollicking crescendo of cymbals, drums and fluglehorn that had me thinking that all the complaints of lass d treble-trouble were spot on. I almost sent them back since the 21 day honeymoon isn't over yet, but they do so many other things better than i have heard before that they needed a second listen first. I swapped out power cords and tried a few different IC's to the preamp, all with no improvement, then it occurred to me to fiddle with the VTA even though I was sure had already won that battle. It turns out that lowering the arm made things a little better. So, I went back to square 1 with VTA setting process. I brought out my growing collection of levels, magnifiers scales and wally tools to start over, dreading the thought of dedicating a few weeks to setting final VTA by ear like I have so many times before. This time, it took only an hour mostly because the Wally VTA tool requires that the cartridge be removed and reinstalled. The amps are so quiet, revealing, and accurate that they could probably be called VTA magnifying glasses. i can't speak for all the other 'philes out there about VTA tweaking expertise, but I honestly do not have it. My earlier efforts were close - I was high by a bit more than 1MM. I don't think I had ever actually reached that legendary perfect setting where the SRA lines the stylus up perfectly in the groove and Vinyl Valhalla is reached until now. With these amps, I can throw any record on, close my eyes and blindly twist the VTA knob and then sit down and reset the VTA sweet spot by ear in about 3 or 4 trials. For those who have never actually heard it, the sweet spot actually does exist and all the obsessive golden eared fools who claim that setting VTA for every record is the only way to get the most out of vinyl aren't so crazy after all.

More to come after the amps are further burned in.
post #1156 of 1260
Hi, has anyone owned or heard the ICE amps and the new technology amps from D sonic? I'm wondering what the differences are in sound. Thanks.
post #1157 of 1260
Did you read my post a bit above yours? wink.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855660/d-sonic-custom-audio-amps/1140#post_22835754
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, has anyone owned or heard the ICE amps and the new technology amps from D sonic? I'm wondering what the differences are in sound. Thanks.
post #1158 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00m View Post

Did you read my post a bit above yours? wink.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855660/d-sonic-custom-audio-amps/1140#post_22835754



Hi, I'm just getting familiar with class D, other than my sub a using class D amp, I just don't know a lot about it. I've scoured the Internet and have taken a crash course over the weekend. I know most of the other manafacturers are still using the ICE cores, and I've heard good things about them. But D-sonics new cores look like they go beyond what ICE can do. So in your opinion these sound better? Do they enhance what some have called limited mids and mid bass? Also what do you know about the Mark Levinson class D amps that go for a ridiculous 25 grand for a single mono block, what kind of core do they use in them? I can't seem to find much out online. To add to my post, I don't subscribe to conventional thinking that more money spent on ultra high end equipment reaps great rewards in quality. I think there comes a price range where it is more of a status symbol than anything. Although I just dropped a good buck on a Marantz av8801 and I'm getting a great deal on a pair of Revel F52's, this is peanuts compared to what you can spend. My belief is your amp is only as good as your preamp and source(s). My amp is a Sunfire CG 200x7 and I find it pretty hard to beat, and not just as a value. Yeah I know there's better but for me, I'm not going to drop double or triple for little gain. But I do want some more clean wattage out of a set of mono blocks for the Revel's, that's why I'm looking at the D Sonics.

Thanks for your post,
John.
Edited by comfynumb - 2/4/13 at 7:30am
post #1159 of 1260
Yes, in my opionion the new D-Sonic M2 core sounds better than ASP1000 from Ice Power, it sounds more evolving and alive. Most people argue against the highs produced by Ice Power amps, which I really don't have any problems with. I also haven't recognized a problem with the mids/mid bass, but I can actually confirm that to me the D-Sonic M2's produce a bit more bass and mid bass, and the mids are less "dry", compared to my old set of Ice amps. Since I'm a fan of all the things class D amps do very well, like loads of details, really "fast" bass and great perspective, my opinion might be worth less than the words from a class A/AB or tube fan though. My experience with tube amps is limited to audio shows, and I have only owned AB amps in the same price range as a pair of D2-1500M's (which is around 3500 dollars when shipping, customs fees and 25% Swedish VAT have been paid). I haven't heard a class AB amp yet in that price range that sound as good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, I'm just getting familiar with class D, other than my sub a using class D amp, I just don't know a lot about it. I've scoured the Internet and have taken a crash course over the weekend. I know most of the other manafacturers are still using the ICE cores, and I've heard good things about them. But D-sonics new cores look like they go beyond what ICE can do. So in your opinion these sound better? Do they enhance what some have called limited mids and mid bass? Also what do you know about the Mark Levinson class D amps that go for a ridiculous 25 grand for a single mono block, what kind of core do they use in them? I can't seem to find much out online.

Thanks for your post,
John.
post #1160 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00m View Post

Yes, in my opionion the new D-Sonic M2 core sounds better than ASP1000 from Ice Power, it sounds more evolving and alive. Most people argue against the highs produced by Ice Power amps, which I really don't have any problems with. I also haven't recognized a problem with the mids/mid bass, but I can actually confirm that to me the D-Sonic M2's produce a bit more bass and mid bass, and the mids are less "dry", compared to my old set of Ice amps. Since I'm a fan of all the things class D amps do very well, like loads of details, really "fast" bass and great perspective, my opinion might be worth less than the words from a class A/AB or tube fan though. My experience with tube amps is limited to audio shows, and I have only owned AB amps in the same price range as a pair of D2-1500M's (which is around 3500 dollars when shipping, customs fees and 25% Swedish VAT have been paid). I haven't heard a class AB amp yet in that price range that sound as good.


This is good info, it looks like these are just better than the ICE cores. So you have a pair of the d sonic 1500 mono's? I'm wondering about if I have enough juice with my 15 amp receptacles, at least for a little while till I can get some 20 amp ones installed. Do you have any issues with this?
post #1161 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

This is good info, it looks like these are just better than the ICE cores. So you have a pair of the d sonic 1500 mono's? I'm wondering about if I have enough juice with my 15 amp receptacles, at least for a little while till I can get some 20 amp ones installed. Do you have any issues with this?

I've heard the new Ice Power ASX2 modules which I believe are used in the Peachtree Audio Grand Integrated though (at CES this year) and that amp sounded _really_ good. But I don't know how it compares against the Abletech modules the D-Sonic's since I'd have to do that comparison at home in my own setup to find out. smile.gif Yes, I have the M2-1500M's and I have 16 amp fuses for my listening room (the hifi system have it's own dedicated power). Since I live in Sweden we have 230 volt outlets though, which means my hifi system can draw 3680 watts from the line which is about twice the amount compared to 115 V/15A. I'm pretty sure you would have to play really loud to max that out though, and I would guess that your speakers (and ears) wouldn't be too comfortable if fed with 850 watts each? wink.gif Or to be honest, the efficiency is around 85% so in reality it would be a bit lower, but you get the idea. wink.gif The headroom is nice to have though, it's pure magic for dynamics. smile.gif
post #1162 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00m View Post

I've heard the new Ice Power ASX2 modules which I believe are used in the Peachtree Audio Grand Integrated though (at CES this year) and that amp sounded _really_ good. But I don't know how it compares against the Abletech modules the D-Sonic's since I'd have to do that comparison at home in my own setup to find out. smile.gif Yes, I have the M2-1500M's and I have 16 amp fuses for my listening room (the hifi system have it's own dedicated power). Since I live in Sweden we have 230 volt outlets though, which means my hifi system can draw 3680 watts from the line which is about twice the amount compared to 115 V/15A. I'm pretty sure you would have to play really loud to max that out though, and I would guess that your speakers (and ears) wouldn't be too comfortable if fed with 850 watts each? wink.gif Or to be honest, the efficiency is around 85% so in reality it would be a bit lower, but you get the idea. wink.gif The headroom is nice to have though, it's pure magic for dynamics. smile.gif



You sound very happy with them. What speakers do you power them too?
post #1163 of 1260
I have pair of Swans F1.1A and class D amps are a really nice match since the speakers can play insanely loud without even breaking a sweat. I have some pictures (see link below, Swedish text though). I haven't taken new pictures yet though, I just bough a new preamp and a new surrund preamp is also on it's way, so I'll do it after everything is replaced. So my old Ice amps are still in the pictures.

http://www.minhembio.com/d00m
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

You sound very happy with them. What speakers do you power them too?
post #1164 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00m View Post

I have pair of Swans F1.1A and class D amps are a really nice match since the speakers can play insanely loud without even breaking a sweat. I have some pictures (see link below, Swedish text though). I haven't taken new pictures yet though, I just bough a new preamp and a new surrund preamp is also on it's way, so I'll do it after everything is replaced. So my old Ice amps are still in the pictures.

http://www.minhembio.com/d00m



Great setup man, I like it a lot. Are you going to power your surrounds and center with the d sonics also? Do your subs have their own power or are they passive?
Edited by comfynumb - 2/4/13 at 8:41am
post #1165 of 1260
I wish I had the voltage you guys do over there, well we have it but its a small fortune to run new lines.
post #1166 of 1260
Thanks. smile.gif I have an old Primare A30.5 5 channel power amp for the center and surrounds, and it's powerful and sounds good enough for that purpose, even though it's huge and heavy. wink.gif I used to bi-amp my last center, but the Swans center doesn't provide that option. The subs are active with a built-in 800 watt class D amp each (custom core from the manufacturer). I only use them for movies, not for music. And since I replaced my Primare SP31 surround preamp with a Primare PRE32 stereo preamp + a Marantz AV7701 (expected to arrive any day) it's not even possible to use the subs for music since they're hooked up to the surround preamp. The PRE32 stereo preamp has a surround processor bypass feature so that the music signal for the front channels can be passed on to the power amps when watching movies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Great setup man, I like it a lot. Are you going to power your surrounds and center with the d sonics also? Do your subs have their own power or are they passive?
post #1167 of 1260
Mm I bet... the most common ones are 230 V/10A here though, 16A aren't very common in outlets for electrical appliances. But since I built the room from the ground up I ran some decent wires on a dedicated fuse, and ran the wires for lights etc. on a different fuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I wish I had the voltage you guys do over there, well we have it but its a small fortune to run new lines.
post #1168 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00m View Post

I have pair of Swans F1.1A and class D amps are a really nice match since the speakers can play insanely loud without even breaking a sweat. I have some pictures (see link below, Swedish text though). I haven't taken new pictures yet though, I just bough a new preamp and a new surrund preamp is also on it's way, so I'll do it after everything is replaced. So my old Ice amps are still in the pictures.

http://www.minhembio.com/d00m

very beautiful pieces you have! i'm sure those speakers are happy to get all that power from the d-sonics.
post #1169 of 1260
Thanks! They work very well together, I've tried a couple of different combinations, even powerful class A/AB mono amps, but the D-Sonic's beat them all. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

very beautiful pieces you have! i'm sure those speakers are happy to get all that power from the d-sonics.
post #1170 of 1260
Quote:
Originally Posted by d00m View Post

Mm I bet... the most common ones are 230 V/10A here though, 16A aren't very common in outlets for electrical appliances. But since I built the room from the ground up I ran some decent wires on a dedicated fuse, and ran the wires for lights etc. on a different fuse.



I understand the d sonics do very well on the higher voltage. It's sounds like your 230 volt 10&16 amp is used like our 110 v 15&20 amps here, one for lighting and living area receptacles and the higher one for kitchen appliances.
Edited by comfynumb - 2/4/13 at 12:22pm
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