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D-Sonic custom Audio amps - Page 31

post #901 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedoflight View Post

You need to file your own claim with FedX for the alleged damage.

I have attached a picture. According to Dennis, this type a puncture had to be pretty severe to damage the 14-gage steel case and is likely cased by some of the automated equipment shippers use to push the packages onto the conveyor belts.

I have attached a picture.

- Rich
LL
post #902 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I have attached a picture. According to Dennis, this type a puncture had to be pretty severe to damage the 14-gage steel case and is likely cased by some of the automated equipment shippers use to push the packages onto the conveyor belts.

I have attached a picture.

- Rich


Good luck with that. It's a PIA but it happens. I shipped an amp I sold to an A-goner and it arrived in pretty bad shape. Fortunately the buyer was able to repair it and we recovered the costs from the carrier but it took a long time.

As to the amp sounding bright, it is a bit of a character trait right out of the box. They do "mellow" out with some hours on them.
My personal experience is that once they're broken in, if turned off for any length of time, they can take up to twenty minutes to warm up (mellow out).
I just leave mine on all the time.

Your take on the bass being weak is an odd thing though. I don't find that at all, and not only does the bass sound powerful but it's also extremely accurate. The tonality of bass instruments really comes through with these amps. I use a couple of channels to power my IB subs because of that actually.
post #903 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Your take on the bass being weak is an odd thing though. I don't find that at all, and not only does the bass sound powerful but it's also extremely accurate. The tonality of bass instruments really comes through with these amps. I use a couple of channels to power my IB subs because of that actually.

I have A/B'ed the D-Sonic against a Sunfire 7400 both bi-amped and adjusted for Gain (the D-Sonic has more gain). I cannot tell you for certian which one is accurate but whenever there is a deep sustained or punchy bass note the Sunfire 7400 drives it home and keeps it going and the D-Sonic delivers the sound but without the same authority.

Perhaps this is some interaction with my Revel Salon's 3x8 inch woofers.
With the D-Sonic it sounds good, but I feel like, this song would sound better with my sub. With the Sunfire, it is holy crap, I can't believe I don't have my sub on. For example, Tracy Chapman's Space Between is a song with a lot of bass. You hear it with the D-Sonic, tight and fast. With the Sunfire, you feel it. The Revels go down into the 20's in a way that not many speakers do, so this may be the reason I notice the difference.

After I adjusted my Preamp (Onkyo 5507) to be in DAC direct mode, I was extremely pleased with the D-Sonics upper end. It was really sweet, very smooth dynamic and extended without be fatiguing. It sounded better on many albums, but again, who knows which one is more accurate.

I even tried bi-amping with the Sunfire driving the woofers and the D-Sonic driving the mid-bass, mid-range, and tweeter. But the gain difference made them sounds about the same as using the D-Sonic for both. I am not sure what to conclude from that.

I can see why people love these amps, but it just was not the best match for my Revels.

- Rich
post #904 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


I can see why people love these amps, but it just was not the best match for my Revels.

- Rich

Maybe, but I don't understand why that would be the case. IIRC, ICE modules were orignally designed for subwoofer use, and they've got a FR of +/- 0.5 down to 20hz, which is pretty much ruler flat, and even more impressive is that's at any load. Subs are considered to be accurate when they achieve less than 10% distortion because that's supposed to be the threshold of distortion audibility in the lower frequencies.

My S8's have four 7" drivers and play down to the 20's too so that's not likely to a factor. I'd put my money on the Sunfire having a sonic signature in the lower frequencies that you like.
post #905 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Maybe, but I don't understand why that would be the case. IIRC, ICE modules were orignally designed for subwoofer use, and they've got a FR of +/- 0.5 down to 20hz, which is pretty much ruler flat, and even more impressive is that's at any load. Subs are considered to be accurate when they achieve less than 10% distortion because that's supposed to be the threshold of distortion audibility in the lower frequencies.

My S8's have four 7" drivers and play down to the 20's too so that's not likely to a factor. I'd put my money on the Sunfire having a sonic signature in the lower frequencies that you like.

That may be. I think those notes are on the disk though.
I think I will break out the headphones to see what can be learned.

Thanks,

Rich
post #906 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

That may be. I think those notes are on the disk though.
I think I will break out the headphones to see what can be learned.

Thanks,

Rich

Well the key is what floats your boat ultimately, every person and room is different.
post #907 of 1268
How do they compare to Seymoure AV
post #908 of 1268
Any more follow up on the sound or the damage situation? I just stumbled upon these amps and this discussion is interesting.
post #909 of 1268
This may sound contradictary, but I find if bass is too well controlled, it may sound like it is lacking weight, or missing in action. But on further listening one realizes the bass is indeed there, just under possibly too much amp grip for ones listening preferences. FYI, I have had the Bel Canto Ref1000, D-Sonics loaded with the 1000ASPs, and Nuforce too.

-Andy
post #910 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

Any more follow up on the sound or the damage situation? I just stumbled upon these amps and this discussion is interesting.

I think the sound from the D-Sonic Ice Amps is fantastic. They are completely neutral and distortation free. I have a 2000-5 paired with Dali Helicon 400's, C-200 and Paradigm in ceiling surrounds. I don't think you'll find a better amp for the money.
post #911 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Lammer View Post

This may sound contradictory, but I find if bass is too well controlled, it may sound like it is lacking weight, or missing in action. But on further listening one realizes the bass is indeed there, just under possibly too much amp grip for ones listening preferences. FYI, I have had the Bel Canto Ref1000, D-Sonics loaded with the 1000ASPs, and Nuforce too.

-Andy

There have been articles suggesting that ICE amps may have different performance with different loads. I found that ICE provided less bass that my old Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature. Since then, I bought a Sunfire 7400 on Audiogon. I still liked the dynamics of the mids and highs on the ICE, but the Sunfire can drive my Revel Salons woofers in a way that the ICE did not.

What is odd, is that it is not volume related. Even at 75DB, I heard the difference. I am not sure what to make of that. I have since noticed that many amp reviews use speakers that have very little usable volume in the 30 HZ range but talk a great deal about bass. I am not sure that makes sense.

- Rich
post #912 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

There have been articles suggesting that ICE amps may have different performance with different loads. I found that ICE provided less bass that my old Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature. Since then, I bought a Sunfire 7400 on Audiogon. I still liked the dynamics of the mids and highs on the ICE, but the Sunfire can drive my Revel Salons woofers in a way that the ICE did not.

What is odd, is that it is not volume related. Even at 75DB, I heard the difference. I am not sure what to make of that. I have since noticed that many amp reviews use speakers that have very little usable volume in the 30 HZ range but talk a great deal about bass. I am not sure that makes sense.

- Rich

I realized you'd be extrapolating here, but if I'm using Monitor Audio GSLCRs across my front 3 which are crossed over by the receiver at 80hz and have a JL fathom f113 for bass, would an ICE amp make more sense for someone like me?
post #913 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

I realized you'd be extrapolating here, but if I'm using Monitor Audio GSLCRs across my front 3 which are crossed over by the receiver at 80hz and have a JL fathom f113 for bass, would an ICE amp make more sense for someone like me?

Possibly, you certainly have the bass covered by the fathom.
If you are willing to pay the shipping and modest restocking fee, then the best way is to try it out.

- Rich
post #914 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

Nice amps, but you're paying a heavy premium for those "name brands".

Did you know that ICE Power ASX2 module cost $125 per unit

Nice mark-ups

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/
post #915 of 1268
How many thousands do you have to buy to get that price per unit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Did you know that ICE Power ASX2 module cost $125 per unit

Nice mark-ups

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/
post #916 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Did you know that ICE Power ASX2 module cost $125 per unit

Nice mark-ups

http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/

So what does that have to do with D-Sonic? They only use "ASP" modules as far as I know.
post #917 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

How many thousands do you have to buy to get that price per unit?

Just 12!!

I saw this from an other Forum


How did you get them?

- Cost of the module from B&O Ice ASX2 $125 add to that a box and connectors and at the max you have $300!!


Now pricing for one amp with the 500W @ 8Ω / 1000 W @ 4Ω module

HighEnd for cool looking boxes

- Halcro Logic MC 20 Amp $5999
- Jeff Rowland Model 501 $3500
- BelCanto REF1000 $2999

Medium Range
- Rotel RB-1092 (stereo) $2462

That is for the most expensive ones of course other firms are not doing to bad either

- Seymour AV Ice Block 10001 $1399
http://www.seymourav.com/amps.asp

- Acoustic Reality eAR 1001-REF MK2 $1499
http://www.acoustic-reality.com/index1.html

- Wyred 4 sound: W4S SX-1000 Monoblock $1199
http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/s..._groupid=18046

- Dsoni Magnum 500M $975 uses ICE
http://www.d-sonic.net/

As said in 6moons "While Jeff Rowland's recipe of audio jewelry, input transformers and -- on his truly upscale models -- overkill add-on power supplies is one way to fulfill traditional HighEnd expectations, the implied superiority of the stock 1000ASP ICEpower module also opens the doors for some enterprising manufacturer to keep things simple and truly affordable. Bona fide high-end performance for the masses?"

I think I will stick with AB amps at least there is original design and at low volume you are in Class A
post #918 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I think I will stick with AB amps at least there is original design and at low volume you are in Class A

You're completely missing the boat here. The units you mentioned all use the ASP modules NOT ASX modules.

I know for a fact 1000ASP's are around $375 each and almost $500 if I wanted to, or could, buy one.

If you're going to come in here with some kind of agenda you should at least get your facts straight.
post #919 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

I realized you'd be extrapolating here, but if I'm using Monitor Audio GSLCRs across my front 3 which are crossed over by the receiver at 80hz and have a JL fathom f113 for bass, would an ICE amp make more sense for someone like me?

I tend to think along the lines of what Andy said above.
From my own experience, I find the ICE amps have the most accurate bass I've experienced to date. The first analogy that came to mind when I heard them was "control".
I would be very surprised if the ICE amps didn't suffice even without the Fathom frankly.
post #920 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I tend to think along the lines of what Andy said above.
From my own experience, I find the ICE amps have the most accurate bass I've experienced to date. The first analogy that came to mind when I heard them was "control".
I would be very surprised if the ICE amps didn't suffice even without the Fathom frankly.

I've loved my Pioneer Elite 94TX, and folks seem to be raving about the sound quality of the new Elites (SC-25, 27) with the ICEpower amps in them. So I think I'm going to give one of those a try and see if I can hear any difference. But the Home Theater Mag review still tested them topping out at 111 watts continuous with 5 channels driven at 0.1%THD. So I'm thinking I might still add a separate ICE amp for those front 3.
post #921 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

I've loved my Pioneer Elite 94TX, and folks seem to be raving about the sound quality of the new Elites (SC-25, 27) with the ICEpower amps in them. So I think I'm going to give one of those a try and see if I can hear any difference. But the Home Theater Mag review still tested them topping out at 111 watts continuous with 5 channels driven at 0.1%THD. So I'm thinking I might still add a separate ICE amp for those front 3.

Watts can be misleading, how much you need will be speaker and room dependant. I doubt in practical application there would ever be a case of five channels being fully driven simultaneously, or for any significant length of time, it's a bit of a torture test I guess.

I don't have any practical experience with the newer ICE amps in the Pioneer, I've read some very positive things about their sound quality though. I think it's a similar platform the Wyred4Sound Mini MC uses.
post #922 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Watts can be misleading, how much you need will be speaker and room dependant. I doubt in practical application there would ever be a case of five channels being fully driven simultaneously, or for any significant length of time, it's a bit of a torture test I guess.

I don't have any practical experience with the newer ICE amps in the Pioneer, I've read some very positive things about their sound quality though. I think it's a similar platform the Wyred4Sound Mini MC uses.

That's a good point. Since I'm using the 80hz xover I imagine the Pioneer will do fine. I think I read somewhere that Pioneer did some customization with B&O for their ICE modules, but who knows if that amounts to anything more than the little tweaks everyone seems to be putting on the basic ICE modules.
post #923 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

You're completely missing the boat here. The units you mentioned all use the ASP modules NOT ASX modules.

I know for a fact 1000ASP's are around $375 each and almost $500 if I wanted to, or could, buy one.

If you're going to come in here with some kind of agenda you should at least get your facts straight.

Yes the agenda is that these manufacturer are ripping off customers, nothing wrong with a bit of profit but this is highway robbery. You might want to check your prices again
post #924 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes the agenda is that these manufacturer are ripping off customers, nothing wrong with a bit of profit but this is highway robbery. You might want to check your prices again

Actually, the smaller companies have less markup.
Still, rent a warehouse, employ a couple of people, pay business expenses.
A typical 3 person company needs to bring in at least $400K. If you make 1.5K per unit, you have to sell 266 amps, that amounts to over 5 per week.

Is that easy, maybe not.

- Rich
post #925 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

That's a good point. Since I'm using the 80hz xover I imagine the Pioneer will do fine. I think I read somewhere that Pioneer did some customization with B&O for their ICE modules, but who knows if that amounts to anything more than the little tweaks everyone seems to be putting on the basic ICE modules.

Yeah the collaboration might have been on the interface between the pre-amp & amp section.

Nobody really tweaks the ASP modules, not that I've been able to discern anyways. Some do add input buffers and various shielding methods but that's all independant of the module itself.
post #926 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes the agenda is that these manufacturer are ripping off customers, nothing wrong with a bit of profit but this is highway robbery. You might want to check your prices again


Maybe some but not D-Sonic; you know, the topic of this thread
I don't know of anyone else offering a world class performing 500w@ 8ohm & 1000w @ 4ohm mono-block that goes for under $1k.

You are still missing the point - before you "roll-eyes" me can you address the fact you're quoting ASX module prices and every manufacturer you listed uses ASP modules. Totally different products!

From Marchand Electronics, part-way down the page 1000ASP = $490.00

http://www.marchandelec.com/pricelst.html
post #927 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Actually, the smaller companies have less markup.
Still, rent a warehouse, employ a couple of people, pay business expenses.
A typical 3 person company needs to bring in at least $400K. If you make 1.5K per unit, you have to sell 266 amps, that amounts to over 5 per week.

Is that easy, maybe not.

- Rich

Yeah no kidding, plus they have to get electrical certification for the countries they plan to sell into, do branding designs, advertising and packaging and when they do make a buck the gov gets their cut...

It's easy to sit in a high chair and critize - it's another to risk everything, mortage your home, and start a business. Those that have deserve what they can get out of it.

If our freind is so worried about mark ups - he can start his own company if he has the gonads.
post #928 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Maybe some but not D-Sonic; you know, the topic of this thread
I don't know of anyone else offering a world class performing 500w@ 8ohm & 1000w @ 4ohm mono-block that goes for under $1k.

You are still missing the point - before you "roll-eyes" me can you address the fact you're quoting ASX module prices and every manufacturer you listed uses ASP modules. Totally different products!

From Marchand Electronics, part-way down the page 1000ASP = $490.00

http://www.marchandelec.com/pricelst.html

EMOTIVA XPA-1 $999 on sle some time for $800

http://emotiva.com/xpa1.shtm
post #929 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

EMOTIVA XPA-1 $999 on sle some time for $800

http://emotiva.com/xpa1.shtm

Wow! Are you comparing Emo gear to D-Sonic? IMHO the Emo isn't even close bro.
post #930 of 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

EMOTIVA XPA-1 $999 on sle some time for $800

http://emotiva.com/xpa1.shtm

I don't know about world class, that remains to be seen with only one review from a self proclaimed Emotiva fan out so far. But I'll give you that based on the fact I haven't heard it.

Here's the thing though, in that size chassis and for a couple of grand more I could get 7 monoblock channels of ICEpower in a D-Sonic. I don't need to have a fridge sized audio rack and a nuclear power plant to run it.






Now,
You still haven't addressed the fact you came in here quoting the price of ASX modules when none of the examples you gave, or D-Sonic, use them.

If you want any credibility to your Emotiva advertisements, you should start by addressing that. Otherwise your words are worthless.
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