What I'd do differently next time. - Page 8

I thought about the "not to exceed"...I'm sure if you did that then it would end up costing that price! (i.e. then there would be no value to the hourly rate thing)

Just came a cross a new one.

I would make the opening to the stage wider.

10 feet in a 15 foot wide room is pretty good, bu I think we really would have wanted the CIH 2.35 AR to be 10.5 or eleven feet.

I'll be trying a wider screen in front, to see how it would look, and if we really would want it that large.

If it could go back in the stage, we certainly would have liked the 2.35 to be more than 10 feet.

Doug

T&M versus fixed price: I try to stick to T&M for jobs that are really discrete (eg, wire the ceiling light cans, mud and tape the drywall) of up to TWO DAYS duration and no longer. And then I schedule them for when I'm around and make sure there's nothing funny going on.

Anything spec-ed for longer requires a fixed price, in my home.

And unless I have an established long term relationship with the tradesman, I get competative quotes and referrals and check their work elsewhere.

And, even with all that, I still get burned sometimes. But I can rest assured I've done as much diligence as is reasonable.

Good points Nathan. It would almost have been worthwhile for me to hire a "snoop" to sit in the basement while they worked to make sure they were working efficiently. Ah well, live and learn. Now that it's a fixed price the "helper" is no longer around ($25/hour) and they seem to be working a bit faster! Yay.

A few things I learned from my first HT build almost 2 years ago:

- Speed kills, I underestimated the time it took to finish BIG Time. I figured I could slap together a simple basement finish and do the HT setup in one part of the main room. I was trying to finish the basement on time for an annual LAN party, and while I did finish the basement in only 7 1/2 weeks, I just about killed myself in the process (I was wiring up the CAT6 jacks as people were setting up for the party, it was that close).

- Subbing out the drywall was one of the best decisions I made (they did a great job, and faster than I would have done), but I'll refer to the "Speed kills" section above, as I was figuring they would finish about a week sooner than they did. Would still sub it out, but don't be in a hurry...

- I would have researched more on equipment racks and done a flushmount setup. I had the room for it, but just figured I would get a free-standing unit I found on the interweb. It works, but it's facing the wrong way and I paid way too much for it anyway.

- Get a receiver with HDMI, at the time I figured I could get away with component, but I've added some more equipment, and I regret it now.

- I'm glad I did 2 things right though. I put service loops in for all my speaker wire (just coil up and extra loop or two at each end when you run it) so I didn't have to worry about lengths on the cabling. I also put in 1 1/2 conduit for my video cabling, so I can go back and install HDMI later with my pull string.

Lastly, since the basement was also going to hold LAN parties, I overbuilt electrical and networking and it's paid off. I have a dedicated 50-amp circuit with it's own box in the basement and I ran extra outlets all over the basement. I also ran 8 quads of cat6 to the various walls, so I can comfortably get 20+ gamers down there with their rigs and I haven't tripped a breaker yet.

I'm planning to retro the A/V equipment into a rack this summer, so if people have suggestions on flush-mount 19inch racks that are easy to retro in, I'm all ears!

Sounds awesome, got a thread with pics?

I do have pics of the basement finish, but haven't started a thread. I'll see if I can dig them up and get a thread set up.

Cool, thanks. Always love spying on people's theaters.

What I'd do different. Hmm, let's see. I think I'd have had the person that designed it be the one who is building it!! That would be Mr. Dennis Erskine. I would've been eating popcorn and watching movies a long time ago. Note the cool theater seating.

Actually, it's been kinda fun. I have a great woodsmith that is making me some unbelievable stuff in columns, trim, etc. The rest I'm doing myself. Well......it keeps me out of the bars.

Chris

Nice, Chris! Who did the cool paint on the ceiling? Also, which of Dennis's packages did you opt for, if I may ask? (DIY, "Select", "Signature", etc?)

Thanks Mike. I started off with Milano Blue but just kept thinking I wanted something more without being gawdy or stand 'outish'. I started looking at pics of Nebulas and such and this is what I came up with. I had a buddy who paints customs for a living do the work. All air brush.

Way back when I hired Dennis to do the plans, I don't think he had those package options per se, but I think it would have been the DIY plan.

Chris

Thanks for the info! Congrats to your buddy -- nice job!

I've gone ahead and started putting up some pictures of my build from almost 2 years ago in the General HT Forum, since it's not a dedicated HT (maybe next house).

More http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=994123

I had my sub placement all planned out (out of sight, behind the "false wall").
Turns out it sounded like complete crap.

I place 12Gauge fed outlets in the back of the room just in case I ended up with subs back there.........well, I forgot to run a signal line back!!!

Thankfullly the rest of the basement was unfinished and I was able to (after 5 hours....) feed 75-ohm quad-shield back and down through the insulated wall.
I just happened to have a heat vent in the room above the HT...lucky.

So, lesson learned: plan on, and wire in (coax quad shield works great) drops for the subs in any location they may possibly end up!

What would I do differently next time?

1. DO NOT try to finish 1400SF all at once. It is too easy to suffer burnout with that much to do. I' have been done months ago if I would not have had to do so much.

That is about the only thing that I have done that I regret (not so much regret but wish I would have split up).

John

I'm at the burnout stage of a similarly-sized project, so I agree with this statment. (Anyone know a good trim carpenter to put up my molding for me?)

That said, it's hard not to do it all at once from an ease of construction/financial point of view.

I work for a company that does a LOT of government work. You want to know where they make their money - winning jobs that are T&M. The gov't ends up paying out wazzu for these jobs - these are the type jobs that create $400 hammers and $17,000 toilets. ( I actually saw one of these, and they are really a lot more than that lol )

I just had my HVAC work done and payed $1200 fixed cost to have the entire basement duct work and returns installed to my specs. I worked only to a quoted price - you never know when THEY screw up and forget that they can't get behind a wall to run what you ask and then spend 8 hours they didn't plan on. If you are fair, walk them through the job, and let them be the pro's they shouldn't have a problem quoting a fixed price. If you ask me, I only want contractors that will tell me what it is going to cost, up front - even on the smallest of jobs. Just my 2 cents on that.

This is an awesome thread. I am in the very early stages of design and *cough* construction. After reading this thread throughout the day, I have decided to halt construction and cover some bases before moving on. A few things already on my list -

Move the lolli-column that is bugging me 7". I have struggled with designing around it for hours. If I would just pay the few dollars to move it 7", my theater would be centered, I would go from a 88" to a 102" width screen, AND my sub and my center would both fit under the screen (currently it's one or the other and the sub is going to win, so the center would be mounted above pointing down).

I just started an Excel spread sheet and took notes from this thread (as suggested).
I will go to an isolated mount for the PJ instead of framing and plywood.
I would have never thought to run the UPS to the PJ
I don't know why I would need 2 HDMI's at the projector, but from this thought, I will add a 2" wire channel from the PJ to the AV rack and make an access point in the ceiling.
I am going to move the AV rack from beside the screen. Actually, I'm going to turn it sideways, so the front of the AV rack points away but then I put a sold door where the front used to be and have a really nice access panel without needing to build in a sep room
I am pulling the screen 18" from the wall. I can see where more would be nice, but this only leaves my seating a 11', I don't want to get any closer.
I already framed all the soffits and didn't leave the 1" gap for the rope lighting. This was bothering me, but I was just plugging on.

My big lesson is - if it is bothering me, STOP... I have to realize that this is going to take 2 years whether I like it or not. And it may as well be 2 years of fun and creativity instead of frustration and comprises.

Great thread ! And a great forum !

I remembered another one.

Either install bar (kitchen) cabinets after floor installed or raise cabinets by height of new floor as if you don't any appliances will be a PITA to install.

I of course did not and had to remove the feet of my Beverage fridge to get it to fit

And another thing I wished I did was put a small sub-panel in the the garage or unfinished area of basement.

I'm working on plans for Master Bedroom remodel and the damn builder maxed out the circuit.....I need to get another circuit and the panel is in HT. Holes are going need to be cut and relishing thought of patching red paint

1) Buy separates (amp, pre-amp) from the beginning. You'll end up constantly upgrading until you reach this point anyway, so do it from the start. (Related to #3 speakers.)

2) Make sure pre-amp has 4 or more HDMI inputs, and supports HDMI upscaling (at least everything out the one HDMI, no matter where the source)

3) Don't cheap-out on speakers. Everyone says pay more for the speakers than everything else combined - that's very true... You'll only end up replacing them until you hit that price point anyway.

4) Plan for acoustic panels or sound treatments from the start.

5) Buy dark carpet from the start.

6) Build a stage under your screen from the start. You'll need it when you finally throw out those cheap wall-mounted speakers and get the ones you really need/want (see #3). (Alternatively put the speakers behind the screen, but I'm not a fan of perf-screens, and I want to show off the beautiful speakers anyway).

7) Buy a good quality sub from the beginning. You'll end up doing this anyway, and the sub is one of the cheaper parts of the sound system (check out CragSub's list).

Here's one I think of every time I watch a widescreen (panavision) movie: If you are going for a constant height setup, choose a 2.4:1 size screen and not a 2.35:1 size, since that is what most current Hollywood widescreen movies project at. I've got a small black bar at the top of most movies, since they are 2.4:1 on my 2.35:1 screen.

Nathan - why don't you zoom it in a little to lose the small black bars on the top and bottom? Your screen frame or border will mask out the added spill on the sides but the picture loss in inconsequential (IMHO) and that way you still get a clean picture all the way to your frame edges. I agree with you on the 2.40:1 vs 2.35:1 screen size though.

Yeah I could zoom it a bit but I hate losing any image area! It's annoying but not enough to make me change the setup.

"Next time" I'll get a 2.4:1 or wider screen. I'll also probably get one that is a little smaller. I went with 10 feet wide in a 12.3' wide room. It's sexy 'cause it fills the wall. But since I'm using freestanding speakers, it severely limits my placement choices.

I might *also* consider a fabric acoustically transparent screen and leaving space for the option to use speakers behind the screen.

But I ended up with this screen because a fellow AVS-er was selling it. I could never have affordable a new Stewart 10 foot wide screen! So ideas about a slightly different aspect ratio, or a slightly different size, were moot. In terms of acoustical transparency, I'm much more partial to woven fabric, rather than perforation, which is something that Stewart doesn't offer.

Budget for the acoustical panels during the build because its a pain in the arss to try to get a few hundred bucks here and there out of the wife (who doesnt want them anyways) over a period of time to finish them up

dont hammer all the gang boxes (light switches/electrical boxes) onto the frame, only to realize that when the acoustical stuff is added the gang boxes are going to be recessed one inch.

lucky, I just realized this two days ago BEFORE I installed the drywall next week. Im now adding a 4 1/2" 2x4 piece so I can move the gang boxes out 1".

Yeah, I did that too! It wasn't the acoustic panels but simply using 5/8" drywall and not taking that into account.

Oh and if you are putting in a riser for seating, put any outlets in that area high enough that they'll clear the riser! This actually ended up being a limiting factor for me.

Simple way to solve the problem of the boxes being recessed is to not put the boxes in until you are almost done. Then use the remodel boxes that have the flaps that attach to the back of the sheet rock. Just leave your rough wiring sticking thru where you box will go.

You can also get boxes that can be adjusted after the wall is up, such as these from Carlon:



and these from SmartBox:

Yeah those Carlon ones are cool. I was penny wise and pound foolish and didn't use them everywhere. In the places where I did, I saved lots of time and money.

This might be somewhere in the thread - but mark where your studs are on the floor before drywall does up. I meant to, but never got around to it. So I had to use a studfinder while nailing up the baseboard. It's not a big deal, but it would have saved a few minutes if I had just marked them first.