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Blown tweeter, literally??

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Check this out.

Was listening to my Studio 100s and one speaker didn't sound quite right. Upon close investigation, I found the tweeter in this condition (disassembled for better view).

Called Paradigm to ask the cause and was told "overdriving". The tweeter still played and the voice coil is not discolored or burnt out. Also, I don't recall cranking these speakers lately and I just noticed the sound was amiss last night.

I'm driving them with a "high end" amp of 200wpc and there is virtually no possibility that anything hit it.

Does it seem that overdriving is the root cause?

BTW, I can get a new diaphragm assembly as you see in the picture for $60, but I didn't ask if that was Canadian dollars or US dollars. The whole tweeter was quoted at $100.
LL
post #2 of 35
Have you been having any problems with 'pops'? Maybe kids poking things?
post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
No "pops" that I recall and definitely no kids around the speakers.

I'm the only one in the household and there have been no unattended guests just prior to noticing the problem. Speaker grills are on at all times.
post #4 of 35
If you can, make a post over at rec.audio.tech and give a link to the picture (might have to sign up for Google Groups). Maybe D. Pierce, an exceedingly bright speaker consultant, will offer up his comments.
post #5 of 35
Looks like fatigue failure possibly due a material flaw.

How does the other tweeter look? It has received very similar stress.

Quote:


BTW, I can get a new diaphragm assembly as you see in the picture for $60, but I didn't ask if that was Canadian dollars or US dollars. The whole tweeter was quoted at $100.

OEMs make a ton off replacement parts.
post #6 of 35
Thread Starter 
From what I can see the other one looks OK - at present, anyway.

Yeah, the price stinks for just the diaphragm of an aluminum dome tweeter, but I can't find any identifying marks that would direct me to a different source for the same.
post #7 of 35
That looks more like someone (or something) poked that tweeter to do that sort of damage. Do you have a wife and/or girlfriend?

Did those little pieces over to the side come out after you removed it and fiddled with it a bit?

I've never seen a tweeter "blown" like that even from abnormal usage.
post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

That looks more like someone (or something) poked that tweeter to do that sort of damage. Did those little pieces over to the side come out after you removed it and fiddled with it a bit?

I've never seen a tweeter "blown" like that even from abnormal usage.

That's what I'd think too but, unless I was sleepwalking (and that's not a known issue), I don't see how it could have happened.

There is a diffuser over the tweeter and the damage is almost directly behind the diffuser, yet, the diffuser is not pushed in or damaged that I can see.

Yeah, the pieces were in the open cavity behind the diaphragm. A couple of the pieces came out when I inverted the speaker to see if anything would come out, and one piece was stuck in some damping material that is down inside the cavity.
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Do you have a wife and/or girlfriend?

post #10 of 35
Thread Starter 
Yeah, a girlfriend, but not a live-in.

She NEVER messes with my system and hasn't been at my house for several days prior to and after I noticed the problem last night. She's asked about coming over so it's not like she's avoiding anything, but I've been working on a few things and prefer to work (generally) uninterrupted.
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

She NEVER messes with my system ....................

Never say NEVER.

Maybe she "elbowed" it while vacuuming the place.
post #12 of 35
Thread Starter 
That is a possibility I can't absolutely dismiss.

Good thing I have other pairs of speakers in reserve. It would drive me nuts to play the speakers knowing the tweeter was that way.
post #13 of 35
It cannot be blamed on a bump. The metal fatigued and failed, much like bending a wire back and forth until it breaks.
post #14 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

From what I can see the other one looks OK - at present, anyway.

Yeah, the price stinks for just the diaphragm of an aluminum dome tweeter, but I can't find any identifying marks that would direct me to a different source for the same.

Well now, I've done some searching and, interestingly enough, replacement diaphragms for Vifa tweeters look amazingly similar to the one from the Paradigm tweeter. The price is ~$16 from Madisound vs ~$60 from Paradigm.

Hmmm... now I'm really in a quandary with this conundrum.

Should I take a chance and order a pair of the Vifa diaphragms (so both speakers would be matched in case of slight differences) or continue on with the replacement from Paradigm?
post #15 of 35
Bounce it off Madisound.
post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Well now, I've done some searching and, interestingly enough, replacement diaphragms for Vifa tweeters look amazingly similar to the one from the Paradigm tweeter. The price is ~$16 from Madisound vs ~$60 from Paradigm.

Hmmm... now I'm really in a quandary with this conundrum.

Should I take a chance and order a pair of the Vifa diaphragms (so both speakers would be matched in case of slight differences) or continue on with the replacement from Paradigm?

A difference of 44 dollars.....Isn't that worth piece of mind?
post #17 of 35
Are these v3 or v4 Studios? Since the v4s were introduced, I have noticed a few posts, here and there, of folks complaining about bad tweeters.

If you want to mod them, I'd go the other way, and see if a pair of Signature tweeters would work. But I know first hand from email conversations from Paradigm, that they do not approve of modding their speakers.
post #18 of 35
Thread Starter 
Chu Gai, good idea.

Russdawg, true enough. It's not like $60 is breaking the bank.

jkhome, they are v2. I asked about upgrade tweeters from Paradigm and the response was a resounding "must use the same".
post #19 of 35
That has got to be the same part, it is just too close.
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Well now, I've done some searching and, interestingly enough, replacement diaphragms for Vifa tweeters look amazingly similar to the one from the Paradigm tweeter. The price is ~$16 from Madisound vs ~$60 from Paradigm.

Hmmm... now I'm really in a quandary with this conundrum.

Should I take a chance and order a pair of the Vifa diaphragms (so both speakers would be matched in case of slight differences) or continue on with the replacement from Paradigm?

i would replace the whole tweeter just to eliminate any possibility of hidden damage.
post #21 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

i would replace the whole tweeter just to eliminate any possibility of hidden damage.

I appreciate your opinion but, really, there is nothing left to the tweeter besides the magnet assembly. The voice coil and all that stuff is part of the replacement diaphragm.

Complete tweeters from Paradigm are $100 each plus shipping. $100 certainly won't break the bank, but I'm going to roll the dice on this one. I ordered two Vifa diaphragm kits from Madisound this AM.

I was assured by the sales person I can return them as long as I don't install them or damage them. If the Vifa parts don't seem the same (physical measurements, voice coil resistance, etc), I'll suck up the return shipping as a learning experience and order from Paradigm.

At any rate, I'm in no big hurry if I end up shipping parts back and forth. The Studio 100s have been moved to the back room and replaced with some very nice Selah Audio custom 3-way monitors I've been using in my bedroom.
post #22 of 35
sorry never had mine apart i see now that is what i would do from the pictures it did
not look dented it looked like fatigue any chance warranty would have helped you out.
post #23 of 35
Thread Starter 
I didn't even inquire about warranty.

I'm (at least) the second owner and bought them plus a Servo15v1 at a pawn shop of all places for (don't let your jaw drop too hard) $1000 or $1100, don't recall exactly. They have been working fine until just recently.

And no, they're not stolen. They've been run against police "hot sheets" to check for that possibility.
post #24 of 35
still a very nice deal guess at that price no warranty aint a bad thing.
post #25 of 35
Thread Starter 
Well, I received the replacement diaphragms from Madisound.

The good news is that physically, they seem to be the same size and same DCR as the original.

The bad news (maybe) is that the surround material of the dome appears different and the polish of the dome itself is different.

The Paradigm surround looks like an impregnated/rubberized cloth, whereas the Vifa-branded ones look more like the surround is rubber only.

Hmmm....

Well, I put one diaphragm into the tweeter that was broken and put that tweeter back into the cabinet. Haven't fired it up yet but I will after work.

In the picture, the Paradigm original is on the left, Vifa replacement on the right.
LL
post #26 of 35
hard to say but from looks alone i wonder which one is stiffer i think i would stick with
the original.
post #27 of 35
Any reports yet? I'm curious.
post #28 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericgl View Post

Any reports yet? I'm curious.

Have not done any critical listening tests yet with the diaphragm purchased from Madisound.

However, I just finished with some close-miked (3 ft) REQW measurements with both speakers in the same spot (one at a time, of course, and not in their normal locations).

The red trace is the speaker with the new Vifa tweeter diaphragm, the green trace is the speaker with the original tweeter diaphragm.

Looks pretty close to me, considering the relative crudeness of the test. The peaks at the high end are roughly 0.7 to 1.1dB difference.
LL
post #29 of 35
If your ears could tell any difference, I'd be flabergasted.
post #30 of 35
Close enough for government work I'd say!
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