Panasonic DMR-EZ47V: DVD/VCR recorder with ATSC (digitl), QAM(digitl) & Analog Tuners - Page 11

I also have Comcast w/o a STB. Comcast does not downconvert the HD channels to SD. The downconversion takes place in the DVD recorder.

Of course no DVD recorder, DVR, etc. will receive encrypted channels. But I guess you can still record them as long as you input them via the analog output from your set top box. But for my purposes that only confuses the issue. All cable channels on all tiers, whether encrypted or non-encrypted, digital or analog, are transmitted on channels 2 through 135. If you are watching a channel higher than 135 it is just a remapping (changed numbering system) from a STB or a cable card. I'm only looking for examples where someone is receiving non-encrypted channels via direct connection of the cable to the Panny EZ47V(K), like ekaxel above. If I get one or two more examples I might go ahead and order it anyway, despite what Panasonic CS told me. I have asked PCS to take a second look at my question and cited this thread as a possibility that their first response was incorrect.

And to Digado: I doubt if Comcast is downconverting HD signals to SD. If you have your cable connected to an HDTV with a QAM tuner you should be getting HD in all it's glory from your local channels at least. If the cable is connected to your Panny, and if that unit indeed has a QAM tuner, it is the Panny that is downconverting the signal to SD, since the Panny can (supposedly) receive the HD signal, but cannot output it as HD. And I'm still waiting on Panasonic CS to tell me they were wrong when they said the EZ47V(K) can't receive a digital signal from cable.

Whoops, sorry, rgazzara. Looks like you beat me to that last response. Yes, I agree with rgazzara.

Let me clarify some of my previous comments about the Panasonic analog/digital tuner and my local Comcast service.

The Operating Instructions for all the current Panasonic Accutune models show analog and digital tuning up to the 135 channel range.

My DMR-EZ17 is currently connected to digital cable without a converter box. It receives a variety of analog, digital and HD channels, currently organized by Comcast up to the 117 channel range. Comcast's relocation of broadcast station companion channels (sub-channels) is sometimes found at random channel numbers. Analog, digital and HD channels are viewed on a 13 inch RCA CRT TV and recorded in Standard Definition.

As I was checking out the other DMR-EZ17 before giving it to a relative I connected it to an antenna aimed at the largest concentration of our local broadcast towers. This OTA connection gave reception of several more digital sub-channels that Comcast is not carrying on their service. Of course, with the OTA setup the broadcast station sub-channels were all grouped with their "companion" channels.

When setting up channels with an antenna be sure to have the antenna aimed in the correct direction to capture the most desired channels during the automatic channel scan. This is not so much of a problem with our location as most of the local stations are grouped on three hilltops in the same general direction, line-of-sight, within five miles.

My regular viewing and recording is through the Comcast (Motorola) digital cable box. Two analog tuner Panasonics, DMR-ES35V and DMR-ES15 models, are enslaved to the cable box. These Panasonics are connected to a Westinghouse 27 inch widescreen LCD HD TV, one of those "HD Ready" models from 2005. Most of my viewing is Turner Classic Movies that Comcast assigns to channel 501.

The family TV is a Sony 30 inch widescreen CRT HD TV with a "built in" HD tuner, also of 2005 vintage. Our local Comcast service programs up to around the 950 channel range. Local analog broadcast channels, including UHF channels, are grouped no higher than channel 20. The "digital" tier of channels appear above channel 98. Premium channels are found in the 500 channel range. HD channels, including local HD broadcast stations, are found in the 700 channel range. Music channels are found in the 900 channel range. At first we used a Cable Card in this TV. Recently we switched to a Motorola HD cable box in order to access the program guide and on-demand options.

The current "EZ" family of Panasonic DVD recorders DO allow manual additions or deletions of channels.

For example, here is the pertinent section from the EZ-17 manual:

Adding and Deleting Channels
To add channels, delete undesired channels, or
channels that have poor reception.
Perform steps 1-3 of “Setting Channel Captions”
select channel, then select the “Add/Del” column to select “Added” or
“Deleted”.

Rgazzara,

Thank you for giving the instructions for manually adding/deleting channels.

Older Panasonics had a handy button for this purpose on the remote.

I shall correct my post.

DigaDo, I assure you that all of those 950 channels are transmitted in the channel 2-135 range on a typical QAM tuner. It's only your cable box or cable card that assigns numbers higher that 135. Cable companies do not transmit on channels higher than 135. I have a Sony SXRD and a Samsung flat panel LCD, both having QAM tuners. I have Time Warner cable who transmits all the same stations as Comcast. Both internal tuners detect every single analog and digital channel offered by TWC. The ones that are encrypted still display a "garbled" audio but no picture. The highest channel is 134.7. There are hundreds of subchannels between channels 73 and 135. Both TVs have the ability to delete those encrypted channels from their channel list once the "auto scan" has picked them up. So please understand that your channels in the 700 and 900 range (and anything above 135 actually) are only remapped/renumbered channels.

PS. And I'm hoping the Panny EZ47V(K) works the same way.

I just got the second response from Panasonic CS. They say they don't call it a QAM tuner because (they say) that implies that it will display a high definition picture. And of course it doesn't. We all knew that already. So I guess it can tune in digital cable, it just can't output the HD signal. And that's why they don't call it QAM.

RAGAZZARA-The EZ Panny's are able to add and delete analog channels, but only delete digital channels. If the digital channel was not found during the initial channel scan, it cannot be added. Note it the digital channel WAS found during the initial channel scan, then deleted, it CAN be added back. But if say a new digital channel was added to your area, you cannot just add it. It has to be found in the scan. One possible exception to this might be if you know the real channel number, not the virtual number. I can't remember if that works for the Panny's, it does work for the Philips 3575. It's just that my area has not added any new digital channels for me to try to add, since my initial channel scan. I use OTA only.

Bobbythebeast-funny thing for Panasonic to say. I don't believe QAM and HD are always together. It doesn't seem to stop other DVDR mfg's from stating that there tuners are QAM, even though they only output SD....

My new DMR-EZ47V arrives tomorrow from Amazon, and I want to lose no time getting it connected to my month-old HDTV (Panasonic 42PZ700U).

So let me see if I'm clear on the connections (using over-the-air signals only; no cable, dish, etc.):

(1) I toss the splitter that now is attached to the coaxial cable coming from the roof and splits into two smaller coaxials: one to the HDTV and one to the recorder (now a VHS recorder) to obtain a stronger signal.

(2) I connect the coaxial cable from the wall directly to the DMR-EZ47V ("DVDR") using its VHF/UHF RF-IN.

(3) I use a short coaxial cable to connect the DVDR (VHF/UHF RF OUT) to the TV (RF-IN). (Does that cable give the TV the signal from the roof, bypassing the DVDR's tuner and using the TV's tuners--ATSC and NTSC?)

(4) I use an HDMI cable to connect the DVDR to the TV. (Is this HDMI cable ONLY used when the DVDR is on? Does that mean that the RF cable in (3) gives the TV the signal from the roof, bypassing the DVDR's tuner and using the TV's tuners?)

(5) In the online manual (p. 61) it shows (in addition to the HDMI cable connection) a composite cable (red-white-yellow) connecting the DVDR's DVD/VHS COMMON OUT to the TV's INPUT 1. Do I also add this 4th connection?

(6) Any other connections I missed?

(7) In setting up the DVDR, I would "disable the RF modulator (not channel 3 or 4, but OFF). " Is this step an obvious, on-screen step during the initial setup? Is this step 2 on page 62 of the manual?

(8) And with these connections, I would always be watching live TV using the TV's tuners by having the DVDR disengaged (either turned off or in use to record)? And that's because the antenna's signal passes through the DVDR to the TV via the RF-IN and RF-OUT unchanged? (Meaning the HDMI connection does not come into play for live TV?)

Sorry for the long list of questions. I'm looking forward to getting all the upconverting capability out of this DVDR, while not diminishing the wonderful over-the-air HDTV reception I have now.

DawnSun-
1. Yes stronger signal, since you are not going through a splitter.
2. Yes
3. Yes the signal will be available for use by the DVDR, and will also be passed on to your TV for use by it.
4. Yes to watch the DVDR always use the HDMI cable, never ch 3 or 4.

5. For this question I will refer to my Panasonic es-30(w/VHS), since I personally do not have the EZ47, but rather the EZ-17 w/o VHS. Panasonic is usually good in keeping features common even in different lines, so I would believe the EZ47 has this feature.
To watch a VHS on my es-30 I would select DVD, then select the input for DVD to be the VHS. Normally VHS is not outputted on any output other than composite or S-video. But watching the VHS through the DVD it allows VHS to be outputted to Component, and if the es-30 had HDMI, I would think it would be also via HDMI.
In this case the only thing you would not be able to do is, watch a VHS at the same time as recording something different to the DVDR. If you wanted to do this you would need a separate S or composite video cable running from the common out, to your TV.

7. If the EZ is like my ES, when you first power on the machine it will ask you what channel, if any you want to set the RF modulator to. Select NONE, or off. If you miss this in the initial setup, it's kinda tricky to find after. I would have to refer to the manual, I have done this several times, but can't remember off hand. Try and catch it during initial setup if possible.
8. Yes, always watch TV using the TV's tuner. When watching a DVD/VHS or programming/setting up the unit, select HDMI on your TV.
9. Yes I suppose it could be confusing to some, reading that anything through the DVDR will be downconverted. I had never thought of that before your post. But rest assured, RF signal just passed through any DVDR will not downconvert the signal, unless you watch it through CH 3 or 4, which you will not be doing. Good luck, and if you will be doing any scheduled programming, especially if using weekly events, you might want to read the thread about "missing scheduled events". http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=970828

Not to scare you, but there are some issues with EZ Panasonics, missing sceheuled events. And several people have personally had cases with your EZ-47 missing events. The best I can say is to NOT use WEEKLY or DAILY events. Also note it has been reported that you cannot record digital .x channels to the VHS, only DVD. I hope that won't be a problem for you.
Good luck with your machine, and for best PQ recording to DVD try to not use any speed above LP(4hr mode). And if the video has a lot of fast motion, try and not go above the FR speed of 3hrs/disc. At least that's what I and some others have found.

10. Oh and lastly IMO the component and HDMI outputs are pretty much the same PQ. Since you seem to have a rather good HDTV, don't expect the upconverting on the EZ47 to be dramatically better than what your TV is already doing. Upconverting IMO is more of a marketing thing. All TV's already upconvert to the screens native resolution, and unless you have a poor TV(which you don't) I think you'll see no real difference using the upconverting feature.
Check out this thread for more opinions on upconverting DVD players.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=964886

Now look at the one who should be apologizing for a long post

Bobbythebeast-funny thing for Panasonic to say. I don't believe QAM and HD are always together. It doesn't seem to stop other DVDR mfg's from stating that there tuners are QAM, even though they only output SD....[/quote]

Yes, I wonder if Panasonic has some lawsuits pending or something. It also makes me wonder if Panasonic may be coming out with a DVDR/VCR combo that will be able to output (and maybe even record) the HD signal any time soon. I know HD and BlueRay recorders are still sky high.

None at the 2008 CES, so I would say no HD passthru for '08.

What if I connect the cable to the Panny; then pass through to my HDTV with a cable card. Will I receive all my HD channels?

I have the EZ17, a more basic version of the EZ47. I'm feeding it Comcast direct from the wall & get all 6 of my HD Clear QAM channels same as my HDTV. It may get other digital channels, but I have never verified that.

Originally 4 channels were in the 100+ range and 2 were mapped down to VHF numbers. But later Comcast changed something & I had to do a new scan & now all 6 HD channels are mapped to their virtual VHF numbers.

I agree that you cannot add digital channels. They have to be found during a scan.

As mentioned in my other message, originally 4 HD channels were in the 100+ range and 2 were mapped down to VHF numbers. But later Comcast changed something & I had to do a new scan & now all 6 HD local channels are mapped to their virtual VHF numbers. I cannot enter the real channel number anymore. The mapping data must by stored in such a way that it recognizes you are inputting a real channel number, but since a mapped number is available it will not accept the real number. Changing channels to the mapped numbers seems to take longer than when I had the QAM channels. The machine must have to go to lookup table and figure out where to go for the real signal, but that's just a guess.

OK, I'll take you're word for it, even though it doesn't say as much in the manual.

I don't see this as a big problem though. I would think that most folks would scan to pick up all the channels, and then delete the ones that do not want.

Yes that's true, but if a person is OTA, and has to have the antenna pointed in different directions to get different channels, it can be a PIA. The Philips 3575 has the Panny beat in that aspect. It allows you to add digital channels(even if only the real channel) even if they were not found in the channel scan.
I've said it before, if it weren't for the PQ(IMO) of the Panny's, I'd ditch them all together and just use the Philips.

masbama-In your scenerio you will receive all the digital channels on your TV, but nothing more on the Panny than it got before. To get more channels on the Panny you'd need to take the S-out of your cable box, and connect to the S-in of your Panny. Then record from that line input. That's the only good way you're gonna get more channels to your DVDR since they don't support cable cards.

Hi,

I got the cd from Pansonic to fix some of the issues on my Pan EZ-475. I'm trying to include the pictures of the instructions here, but I don't know what I'm doing, so I may need help.
The disc was labeled EZ47 UJ-201 and the included file was PANA_DVD.FRM 4,859 KB 10/232007 10:17:37 AM with 0 bytes free space using CDFS file system. That's all I can get with "properties".
Here are attached the two pages of instructions. I don't know if these will show up or be usable?? But here goes:

Attachment 99119

Attachment 99120

Wyntrout

Edit: This works but the quality isn't great -- on the paper, either. I used B/W at 150 dpi for the scan.

I've tried several times to add back the original HD QAM channels. I cannot even tune them, either by direct access or channel up/down using the remote. I know they're there because my HDTV gets them.

The main reason I would like to get them back at the real QAM channels is that they were quicker to tune in when I did get them there. Not a big deal, but just nicer.

If you feed the panny direct with the cable, it will scan all the unscrambled channels in, BUT you'll have to find them and figure out what's what. It's a PITA but you'll have to build your own table of channels and the network or channel for each. They'll have to fall between 2 and 135 with many subchannels. I just did a rescan of cable with my Sony DVR (DHG-HDD2500 which has separate RF inputs for Cable and OTA antennas. I got 66 analog and 204 digital channels. There are many duplicates of some channels -- analog, digital, and HDTV. You have generally one each for the networks and some duplication of the digital, so you may have 3 or MORE to find for each network.
The Panny can tune these, but you'll get the down-converted to SD resolution. This can be recorded on DVD-RAM and then up-converted to "near Hi Def" to your TV via HDMI only. The VCR will not record digital channels, though you can see them with VCR selected. There are copy protection issues with any recording medium other than DVD-RAM, which CAN record copy-once programming in its native 16:9 format -- not so with any other medium. Best results can be had with SP mode. Resolution is reduced for more than two hours on a 4.7GB disc. Using the HQ or one-hour mode for recording, especially from VHS type resolutions is a waste and like recording music off a scratchy LP using 320 Mbps -- IMHO.
I have compared OTA recorded HDTV between the Sony and the Panny. The Panny's result is ALMOST as good as the real HDTV from the Sony. I mainly use my panny for OTA to back up my Comcast HD DVRs(DCT3416's) because I have problems with the video breaking up from Comcast too often. So I sometimes use my older DVR/HDD recorders to back up the digital with analog(480i, though) and OTA 16:9 with the Sony and EZ-475. I have had occasions where a channel Like FOX is bad on cable (A & D) and OTA, as well, which really sucks because not all programming is repeated. I do use the Panny for recording "HD" 16:9 stuff for later viewing. HD really eats up the Hard Drive space on the DVRs.
I hope some of this is helpful. I haven't really done as much experimentation with the Panny as I want. I still haven't tried outputting firewire from the DCT-3416 or Sony to the Panny for recording on DVD-RAM. This requires a separate audio feed from the source, so I don't know how that will sound. One of these days....

"I've tried several times to add back the original HD QAM channels. I cannot even tune them, either by direct access or channel up/down using the remote. I know they're there because my HDTV gets them."

Did you do a complete channel search scan in setup?

I haven't done anything with the Panny on cable since the original scan, so I don't know the status of those channels now. I use the Panny for OTA and since it has only one RF input, I don't really use cable with it. If you can find the channels and identify them, you can record them manually, since there's no "guide" with this unit. I do get info on the current program under status, and it will tell what the next program is on that channel. I guess that the status of the TV guides is up in the air until much closer to the switchover to digital only. Sorry that I can't help you with the channels.
Something I do with my TV or the Sony DVR is use the remote to manually enter the channel, ie. 73-1 or whatever, and see if the unit will tune it in.
When I did this recent scan I checked all of the channels and most of them jibed with my original list from the last scan, though some channels were not there. The cable company does change the lineup now and then.
Channel surfing has become a real chore since all of my digital tuners are S L O W in tuning!

I'm considering purchasing a Panasonic DMR-EZ47VK (via Amazon) to go with my new Samsung LNT4671F. I've done a lot of reading on this Panasonic unit, both here and in the feedback section on Amazon. Here are my observations and concerns:

1.) This unit appears to have a problem with a LSI chip overheating, resulting in freeze ups, holding DVD-R and VHS taps hostage, etc. Prior posts on this thread indicate some are actually opening their units and gluing heat sinks on. Is this still going on or has Panasonic fixed this (definite deal breaker for me if it is still an issue)

2.) Can one record to DVD +RW and finalize such that the disk will play in the majority of DVD players? I want to archive my VHS tapes to DVD and want the resulting DVDs to play in relatives DVD players and future equipment of my own (I won't own this Panasonic forever). The RAM disks are interesting but too proprietary for archival recording.

Any updates, info on the above appreciated. Also, does anybody know the HDMI spec of this unit (compatibility with my new Sammy)?

Can someone tell me the difference between the EZ475, EZ47V, and the EZ47VK?

BobbyTheBeast,

The model numbers beginning DMR-EZ47 are the same machines. If you find a model number ending in "S" the case is silver; a model number ending in "K" is black.

I believe that the DMR-EZ475 is basically the same model.

SalsaNChips,

With regard to copying VHS to DVD with a DMR-EZ47 (or other current Panasonic combo recorders) see my posts from 1/12 to 1/14 where I deal with this topic in some detail. I would hope that others involved in large dubbing projects would offer their comments as well.

Salsa-Not sure about point 1, but on point 2 yes you can make +RW discs compatible on Panasonics. They don't really call it finalizing on a +RW, since they are playable right away, but unless you "create top menu" it will just start playing right away, and not have a top menu to go to on any machine other than the one it was recorded on, not even on other Panny's.
If you are concerned about compatibility I would personally go with -R then -RW media, but +'s will play on most anything newer than 8? yrs old.
And on your last point, the HDMI out should work on any TV with a HDMI port. I believe it's a standard which should play on any TV w/HDMI. I haven't heard otherwise. My EZ-27 played just fine on my newer Panny LCD TV. Note both brands of +RW discs that I have tried in my EZ Panasonics had odd search speeds. Either way too slow, or 5 min/frame. Quite worthless. +R's also have odd search speeds, too slow, but are ok after finalizing. IMO Panny's don't really like + media, but will record to them.

Bobby-In Panasonic lingo the K on the end means black cabinet, not silver. I believe the EZ475 is the model sold at Costco, and maybe Sams club. I would guess it could be as simple as including a HDMI cable. They have done this in the past. I'm not positive about my last statement though. Maybe someone else knows more. I am sure about the K part.

See my 11:05 post today about the update disc from Panasonic. I haven't noticed any hangups since I did the update, but I don't heavily use my Panny, either. Earlier posts recommend turning the Quick Start feature off to allow the unit to cool. The power consumption goes from ~14 watts to ~2.4 watts in Standby Mode -- the "Off" mode. This is the default/shipping mode(from Specifications on page 93).
You can download the manual in .pdf form and find as much info as I can. I haven't "read" the entire manual, but I've been through it many times searching for answers. On page 74 there is a list of "Usable Discs for Recording and Playback". A DVD-R (finalized) is the most universally compatible medium(from my experience), but that doesn't guarantee it playing on ALL players. The other RW types may not work on ANY other unit. Newer players can accommodate almost any disc, but check the aforementioned page and page 75 for more info.
The HDMI outputs from DVD and VCR but, depending on your TV, you might need separate audio output for it if it doesn't have full HDMI support. My TV won't take Digital input for PIP, so I have to have analog cables and audio to the TV for that. This unit has 2-way HDMI control capability for compatible units -- it "supports HDAVI Control 2 function" -- A/V is output only, though.