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Swan Owner's Thread - Page 96

post #2851 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by mears View Post

Kraig, I've sent you multiple emails to both the sales and support addresses since January. My personal email account is joshd@MichiganStateUniversity.edu (emphasis intentional).

To rejog your memory, I purchased a set of Swans (6.1s, C3, and R3s) from you back in December. The speakers I received had mismatching grills (specifically, one 6.1 and the C3 had transparent grills, the rest were opaque). You told me that you would be able to swap the transparent ones, so my set matches, after receiving your next shipment. It's been over 3 months, and I would like to know what the deal is. A PM will also be forthcoming.

Mears,

Thanks for posting here - and please accept my apologies for the delayed response on our part. Kraig and I have been having some trouble with our website and email lately and trying to figure out exactly what's going on - as our customers are not getting bounce-backs but we're not getting the messages. Our site was actually down for a few days last week as well and a few orders were lost. Anyone that hasn't heard from us (and happens to be reading this) - please send myself or Kraig a PM and we'll get back to you ASAP.

With respect to your grills - I will check our inventory and we'll schedule a swap ASAP. If it's not too much trouble - send me a PM with your name and address and we'll get it in our system.

Thanks again for your support...and apologies for any inconvenience.

Best regards,
post #2852 of 3844
Apologies SACD. Please feel free to PM me or Kraig as well - sadly, seems to be more reliable right now. We are working to correct our hosting problems - though having trouble getting access to our accounts or a response from our provider.
[email removed]
post #2853 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by sac8d4 View Post

Supposedly Jon was talking about an xover upgrade on the original x1 line, however he has remained rather mum on the subject.

I'm guilty here as well - sorry for the lack of info on this project as of late. The truth is - we started this project about 2 years ago (even launched the OZmods section of our site) and it turned out to be far more difficult than we were expecting. We had a pair of 6.1's tested with various crossover designs for well over 6 months. The stock crossovers performed so well that the $300-$400 upgrades turned out to deliver a negligible increase in performance. In the end, we didn't want to simply market an upgrade without truly believing in the performance and value it represented - as this is the cornerstone that our companies (both The Audio Insider and OZ HT) were founded on. On the other hand, we just didn't think a $650 crossover upgrade was practical, or commercially viable, on an $850 speaker (despite the fact it performs like a $3K speaker). So...we went back to R&D...and have unfortunately been there ever since. Believe it or not - we're still going down this path - though the things Jon has in the pipeline are so revolutionary that I'm really not sure we'll ever get there. Obviously everyone here will be the first to know if so.
post #2854 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew664 View Post

Let me know how this turns out. This is exactly why I haven't purchased the C3 yet, as I don't want those grills that you can see through.

Funny, I bought a C3 from Jon about 6 months ago that had the old, nice grille on it which matches my 6.1's I have had for many years now. Beautiful. I would speak to Jon before you order and see if he can hand pick one for you.
post #2855 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddeofile View Post

Funny, I bought a C3 from Jon about 6 months ago that had the old, nice grille on it which matches my 6.1's I have had for many years now. Beautiful. I would speak to Jon before you order and see if he can hand pick one for you.

In the recent past evidently Swan mistakenly slipped in some of these more transparent grilles. Some folks like them, and some prefer the standard type.

If anyone wishes to exchange either type, let me know as we're operating a clearing house for them. Meanwhile, I believe Steve and Kraig at OZ may have a small new inventory on replacements.
post #2856 of 3844
Way to go, Jon!!! Many thanks from all of us for your quick reply. Jon's 5 star service once again.
post #2857 of 3844


Well...we processed roughly 150 orders in the past four days, plus six new products, and through it not everybody gave us top marks for perfect response time. Back-orders so complicate things - my apology to anyone who found they had to wait longer than they should have.
post #2858 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve ozmai View Post

mears,

thanks for posting here - and please accept my apologies for the delayed response on our part. Kraig and i have been having some trouble with our website and email lately and trying to figure out exactly what's going on - as our customers are not getting bounce-backs but we're not getting the messages. Our site was actually down for a few days last week as well and a few orders were lost. Anyone that hasn't heard from us (and happens to be reading this) - please send myself or kraig a pm and we'll get back to you asap.

With respect to your grills - i will check our inventory and we'll schedule a swap asap. If it's not too much trouble - send me a pm with your name and address and we'll get it in our system.

Thanks again for your support...and apologies for any inconvenience.

Best regards,

yhpm
post #2859 of 3844
Received my d1.1 center speaker today and considering it will only get better as it breaks in I am very pleased. It's a little bigger than I imagined but not too big that it would be a problem. Since installing it I have been listening to my SACD/DVD-audio disks. Well my system has never sounded this good before, I have moved things around a bit this week in anticipation of my new d1.1's (Jon PLEASE get my D1.1se's SHIPPED) maybe I finally got lucky and got placement right, but I can't believe how well things sound now. Rear channels never seemed to deliver in multi-channel music before, well now it is completely different as I'm using 4 d2.1's as main and surrounds and the new center. When the d1.1's get here I'll be using them as DSX wide speakers. Anyway as the new speakers break in better I'll try to elaborate more....

The new d1.1sec really blends well with d2.1's for those who were waiting on these ( 2 big thumbs UP!!!)

more to come
post #2860 of 3844
Thanks for the comments on the d1.1sec, sterryo. Mine should arrive around Tuesday. If it works out, it will be considerably smaller (and prettier) than the center I'm using now (x-voce).
post #2861 of 3844
My d1.1sec arrived about a half hour ago. Haven't played anything through it yet.

It's a tiny little thing. Looks nice, except the trim rings around the woofers are not black, so they don't "match" the d2.1se that I already have visually.

Jon had mentioned that they were going to have perhaps the first 10 pairs of d1.1se's that would have the wrong color trim ring as well as being bi-wirable and if you wanted one of those pairs, call and ask for them. Based on what was mentioned, this should only be the case on the khaya crotch veneer version of the d1.1se monitors. All other production versions would have the correct black trim rings. Nothing I've read mentioned that the Gloss Black center channel would also have the wrong trim rings by default.

So, what's the deal? An all black speaker except for grey trim rings isn't acceptable when it doesn't match the speakers that it's designed to match.
post #2862 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorCorps View Post

My d1.1sec arrived about a half hour ago. Haven't played anything through it yet.

It's a tiny little thing. Looks nice, except the trim rings around the woofers are not black, so they don't "match" the d2.1se that I already have visually.

Jon had mentioned that they were going to have perhaps the first 10 pairs of d1.1se's that would have the wrong color trim ring as well as being bi-wirable and if you wanted one of those pairs, call and ask for them. Based on what was mentioned, this should only be the case on the khaya crotch veneer version of the d1.1se monitors. All other production versions would have the correct black trim rings. Nothing I've read mentioned that the Gloss Black center channel would also have the wrong trim rings by default.

So, what's the deal? An all black speaker except for grey trim rings isn't acceptable when it doesn't match the speakers that it's designed to match.

mine are gray also
post #2863 of 3844
been running my new d1.1se's all day and thought i'd post my musings. first off the socks are way to small, took at least 10-15 minutes to remove each. thought i was going to scratch the speakers with all the tugging and cursing getting them off. moved them to the stands with my front d2.1's and plugged them in. unlike the center channel which sounded great from the get go, the d1.1's i didn't like at all, they are bright and the soundstage simply collapsed. only positive thing i can say at this time is that after a couple hours of constant playing they have improved some. i've swapped the d2.1's in and out a couple times now the listen to differences. on my setup (onkyo 3007 avr with emotiva xpa-3 running frontstage and a yamaha dvd-s1800 playing sacd's and dvd-a), the d2.1's are night and day different. the soundstage is huge and the sound is mellower not causing any ear fatigue. i've had to turn down the d1.1's as the brightness gives me a headache.

only time will tell as i run in the speakers if they will open up like the d2.1's. the center d1.1sec has gotten a little better after about 50 hrs of use, but they sounded great from the beginning, listening to multi-channel HD sources is a richly rewarding experience, before the new center was added i preferred 2 channel stereo over multi-channel and now the vote has swung back to multi-channel.

and yes the bezels are gray like the center channel
post #2864 of 3844
Thus far, I've only used my d1.1sec for about 1.5 movies (after letting it play music for perhaps an hour beforehand with me mostly out of the room). It did a good job of integrating and did not sound "forward" like my x-voce. Good detail. Some dialogue (certain voices) sounded a bit congested, but I expected that with a brand new speaker. I'm anxious to see how it does once it has a chance to open up a bit more, but we've been having thunderstorms the past couple of days and I didn't want to leave my equipment running while I'm away at work, so break-in will be slow until Saturday when the storms subside.

It sounded much better with dialogue during the movies than it did with music during the initial hour of break-in. I'm trying this as a center channel using a pair of Strata Mini's as mains and d2.1se as surrounds (thus my having swapped it in place of an x-voce).

That's about all I can share at this point.
post #2865 of 3844
Your comments give us an opportunity to explore the differences between the Swan D2.1se and D1.1se, sterryo. When comparing a fresh pair of Swan D1.1se to a seasoned pair of D2.1se there are at least three things to keep in mind.

The first is that a pair of "green" speakers - especially those with the relatively high mechanical losses these particular designs need in order to hit their design centers - need to be well broken in before critical evaluations. I wouldn't expect to do any comparisons until either model had acclimated for a few days and had been run and heat-cycled for up to a hundred hours. I don't know what vintage your D2.1se are, but it's clear they've been run long enough to settle in at their design center.

The midwoofers in both of the D series speakers you have use high-loss suspensions, meaning that the driver's compliance factors more into the system tuning than usual. Had the driver been designed and engineered with low-loss suspensions that rely more heavily on the motor controlling the diaphragm this would be less of a factor. (For example, our upcoming new Dana models are all low mechanical loss designs and you'll notice it immediately in the softness of the driver's outer suspensions.) Gently prod the D1.1se's rubber surround with a finger and you'll see what I mean - behind the cone there's a rear suspension that's just as stiff. You really have to exercise the suspensions in the D series in order to get the speakers to "bloom". Further, even the electrical components inside need to be formed, and this also requires quite a few cycles at fairly high currents to accomplish. Basically, play 'em fairly loud for a long time and then listen again.

Second and just as importantly, the D2.1se and D1.1se occupy decidedly different acoustical classes. As you've found, the D2.1se is designed as a powerful main "stand monitor" loudspeaker. It benefits from free-space use and will probably not be happy where the D1.1se would be best used, which is with some boundary assist. Conversely, the D1.1se, while similar in components and tuning above the middle hundreds of cycles, benefits from boundary loading in order to resemble the D2.1se's sound from free space. I think TAI can best describe the D1.1se as a bookshelf or minimonitor loudspeaker that when combined with the D2.1se stand monitor in a multi-channel system, is best nearer to a large boundary. Knowing that this was where and how most D1.1se's would be used, Swan dialed in a touch more high end in the D1.1se to balance what might be a number of decibels down low added by boundary gain.

This characteristic also makes the D1.1se suitable for relatively densely packed wall units and entertainment centers and/or used with a subwoofer set to cross it over nearly a full octave higher than the more full-bodied and much larger D2.1se. The D2.1se is a fourteen liter system and the D1.1se is only a five liter system. They share bass driver motors and tweeters, meaning that most of the parametric difference between the two speakers will show up in the F3 and less so in their relative sensitivities and overall responses. For this reason you cannot substitute one model for the other either in space or in the other's active filter setup and expect immediate success. Ideally any main speaker should be set to add its natural highpass function, including slope and frequency, to an electronic function that sums with it to mirror the subwoofer's lowpass 4th order, Q=0.5 function at that same frequency.

Lastly, you'll need to acclimate yourself to these differences, sterryo. Even without the important factors above, if you've spent a couple of years drinking a mature Shiraz, suddenly switching to a new Pinot Noir will give a sense of vivid, pronounced change. Give yourself some time to mentally settle both flavors, and experiment with pairing them with more suitable dishes - use the two different models in their optimum settings, carefully arrange your positioning and your electronic crossover settings in your AVR to suit each, and once you've passed break in, you should be loving things.

Following are the acoustic models for each model, plus for fun, the D2.1se Custom's response. Note that all are virtually identical in loudness but that the F3 vary noticeably, and in the case of the D1.1se, significantly. This is what the same motor driving an alignment less than half the size of the larger models looks like. In order, D1.1se, D2.1se, D2.1se Custom.







In summary, break them in, use them in their respective design spaces, and acclimate. Remember that there is a theoretical difference between full space loading and half space loading of six decibels, which is a phenomenal amount of level difference, some or most of which will factor in any room. We anticipated a degree of this when we designed both models and we'd be the first to agree that while the similarity in their crossovers means the D1.1se isn't bright, it's much more suitable for half space loading than the D2.1se. Neither will sound like the other if they're simply substituted back and forth in the same setting, especially fresh out of the box.

It's also possible your system is on the lean side, which when paired with a robust fullrange sound like the D2.1se, by comparison highlights the D1.1se's missing bass octave even more when you make such an abrupt switch without including these other factors. The latter is only a little over half the cone area and less than half the former's air volume. It's going to be a significant difference even without factoring break in, setups, and rooms.

If you want to delve more into this, I'd encourage you to call us and I'm sure we can walk you through it. Speakers of this class and performance level are sensitive to literally everything in the system and the room and it's partly a testimony to that ability that defines these models. The mark of a high definition loudspeaker is its ability to report back to you those factors and more and I think that with the D1.1se, Swan developed a unique solution for high definition multi-channel and multi-use that does that.
post #2866 of 3844
well looks like i missed the boat so to speak, i have a lot of research ahead of me to better understand Jon's recommendations above.
Just want to get it all done correctly....
no more eval's until i get some real time on these baby's!!!!!!!!!
post #2867 of 3844
Jon,

How many liters on the d1.1sec and were they designed to need boundary reinforcement as well, or are they designed for free space hitting an octave lower than the d1.1se naturally?

Also, could you address the trim ring/bezel color concern?

-Stuart
post #2868 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorCorps View Post

How many liters on the d1.1sec and were they designed to need boundary reinforcement as well, or are they designed for free space hitting an octave lower than the d1.1se naturally?

The D1.1seC uses the same midbass drivers as the D1.1se. Unless specifically designed otherwise, a speaker with multiples of any given driver will keep the F3 profile of that driver - doubling the drivers does not translate into lower bass. The D1.1seC is really just a louder, lower-impedance D1.1se.

As far as boundary effects, center and LCR speakers generally don't get pushed all the way to back walls and so the D1.1seC response above the middle hundreds is relatively a little less than the D1.1se even though the D1.1seC is louder overall. It's tuned to work well in a wide variety of locations and with both the D2.1se as mains and the D1.1se's as effects.

We also felt that since the majority of systems the D series will be used in are going to lowpass the .1 channel below 80 and highpass the center and effects channels above 80Hz, the D1.1se's smaller 5.25" midbass drivers and higher F3 would work equally well with either the D1.1se or the D2.1se.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorCorps View Post

Also, could you address the trim ring/bezel color concern?

The first lots of both models come with the charcoal rings we show in the site and in the news channel and forums. If you're going to run them with the grilles off, drop us a line in about a month and we should have black-framed to swap out with you. Keep your shipping cartons!
post #2869 of 3844
Thanks for the feedback, Jon. There will certainly be lots of testing and comparing over the next couple of weeks with the d1.1seC. The charcoal trim ring thing is still very annoying, but thanks for offering to swap them in the future (I don't run grilles on any of my speakers - especially my beautiful F2.2+'s which I think would be a crime)
post #2870 of 3844
i've noticed that some d2.1se's have a six hole pattern the same as the new d1.1se and most have the 12 hole pattern. so does anyone know the story????
post #2871 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorCorps View Post

Thanks for the feedback, Jon. There will certainly be lots of testing and comparing over the next couple of weeks with the d1.1seC. The charcoal trim ring thing is still very annoying, but thanks for offering to swap them in the future (I don't run grilles on any of my speakers - especially my beautiful F2.2+'s which I think would be a crime)

How do you like the F2.2? Have any pics of your setup?
Reply
Reply
post #2872 of 3844
Has anyone had either good or bad experiences with the Swan Diva 2.1? I can get a new pair at a fairly good price it seems but I have never heard Swans before...My system is Cambridge Audio 840A V2 Integrated Amp 2 channel 120watts/side and the 840C CD Player. My listening will be 100% music (all types..mostly alternative, reggae, pop, ska, funk and some blues) with no plans to purchase a subwoofer.

The Diva 2.1's look sharp and the price is right but how do they perform? The specs say they can handle 10-80watts (seems a little low) and their physical size is a little on the big side for a bookshelf.

Hopefully, I will be a Swan owner soon...thanks
post #2873 of 3844
My parents use a stereo pair in their livingroom without a sub and they sound great, lacking some low end. I have a single 2.1 as a rear-center in a 6.1 system. Don't worry about the stated wattage A good receiver will drive them fine.
post #2874 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by EJ View Post

My parents use a stereo pair in their livingroom without a sub and they sound great, lacking some low end. I have a single 2.1 as a rear-center in a 6.1 system. Don't worry about the stated wattage A good receiver will drive them fine.

what are your parents using to drive these lil gems in their stereo set up?
post #2875 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodaze74 View Post

My system is Cambridge Audio 840A V2 Integrated Amp 2 channel 120watts/side and the 840C CD Player. My listening will be 100% music (all types..mostly alternative, reggae, pop, ska, funk and some blues) with no plans to purchase a subwoofer.

The Diva 2.1's look sharp and the price is right but how do they perform? The specs say they can handle 10-80watts (seems a little low) and their physical size is a little on the big side for a bookshelf.

The Diva 2.1 is the smallest Diva in the X.1 series, of which the 6.1, C3, and R3 remain in production for us. It has a relatively large enclosure for a stand monitor, which grants a nice combination of bass extension and sensitivity. The midwoofer is from Diva's alloy driver collection, and as with the 28mm soft neo dome tweeter, is hand-selected. You should find the 2.1 clean and dynamic, especially with a high-current amplifier, which you have in the Cambridge. I haven't heard the XD class yet but the specs suggest it has the high instantaneous current the Swans typically like.

And dittos about the power ratings: Swan tend to rate their gear conservatively and you can run 150w peak into a Diva 2.1 if you're not careless. The Cambridge looks to be a good amplifier.
post #2876 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Lane View Post

The Diva 2.1 is the smallest Diva in the X.1 series, of which the 6.1, C3, and R3 remain in production for us. It has a relatively large enclosure for a stand monitor, which grants a nice combination of bass extension and sensitivity. The midwoofer is from Diva's alloy driver collection, and as with the 28mm soft neo dome tweeter, is hand-selected. You should find the 2.1 clean and dynamic, especially with a high-current amplifier, which you have in the Cambridge. I haven't heard the XD class yet but the specs suggest it has the high instantaneous current the Swans typically like.

And dittos about the power ratings: Swan tend to rate their gear conservatively and you can run 150w peak into a Diva 2.1 if you're not careless. The Cambridge looks to be a good amplifier.


wow thanks...so how would the Swan Diva 2.1 match up against the Swan D1.1se? they are in a similar price range on the website i am stalking haha
post #2877 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiodaze74 View Post

wow thanks...so how would the Swan Diva 2.1 match up against the Swan D1.1se? they are in a similar price range on the website i am stalking haha

The Diva 2.1 is much larger and that volume will give it more sensitivity and bass extension than the D1.1se. The D1.1se is Swan's top minimonitor/bookshelf but it's very compact size means it definitely gives up bottom end to a large stand monitor like the Diva 2.1.

As a series, The D's are quite different than the Divas - the Diva will be more sensitive and lively and the D series more sophisticated and therefore probably more intriguing to the high-end listener. The D series use Swan's most technically advanced drivers, which is where that sophistication comes from (and with it, cost). We're developing the D series with Swan while the Diva X.1 series is being slowly retired.
post #2878 of 3844
Thankyou VERY much...i wish i wasnt shopping on a budget. ugh. sounds like either way a set of Swan speakers will be making its way into my home soonish. Still not sure which pair though
post #2879 of 3844
Great link to several pairs of NEW Swan Diva 2.1 speakers up for auction on Audiogon...

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc....oni&1269051055
post #2880 of 3844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

How do you like the F2.2? Have any pics of your setup?

+1000 I'd love to see some pics of your beautiful F2.2's
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