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Onkyo DV-HD805 HDDVD Player - Picture and a few Details - Page 27

post #781 of 834
11/28/07 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

What is worse Joe is that there have been threads explaining why the long load times, but people keep thinking that some miracle is going to happen that defeats the reason WHY there are long load times and will continue to be long load times until at least the following happens:

1. Use WinCe
2. Combine the SoC with the GPU

And even after that happens . . . they STILL will not load as fast as a DVD player.

Cripes - it's like complaining that a component is silver versus black


HD-A3 uses WinCE and it doesn't seem to help. In fact, the A3 has a bit longer load times than my A2 or XA2.

EDIT - In fact, it looks like the XA2 seems to display WinCE in the firmware details too. Are these all using CE for something?
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post #782 of 834
11/28/07 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadbury8 View Post

layer change would also be a good one to compare i would think.


Except that can vary from disc to disc, and drive to drive.
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post #783 of 834
11/29/07 at 1:13am
Maybe what joerod did hear from Onkyo is, that they will exchange the remotes to one including the picture-button.

At least this will happen here in Europe.

And yes: The Onkyo is a 100% rebatch of the XA2

Micha
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post #784 of 834
11/29/07 at 2:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmfs001 View Post

Maybe what joerod did hear from Onkyo is, that they will exchange the remotes to one including the picture-button.

At least this will happen here in Europe.

And yes: The Onkyo is a 100% rebatch of the XA2

Micha

Really? Well that would be good news!
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post #785 of 834
11/29/07 at 3:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

I agree. I was surprised when I read his reaction, because he made it sound like there was a significant decrease in load times. I wonder how someone could do a review on load times without using a stopwatch. Very sloppy and unscientific, and I'd be more than miffed if I bought a $800 unit specifically for better load times based on his review. I think everyone here who reports load times for the most part actually do use stopwatches or the second hand on their wristwatch. I do.

I can see why Joe wont respond with posts like this.
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post #786 of 834
11/29/07 at 4:13am
StevieC is right (thanks by the way ). I won't respond since I am to unscientific. The load times are improved (on the main batch of units) as I suggested. I did not use a stopwatch. This is my last post over here, I am not wasting my time. I will finish with some interesting info which I will not go into detail on. My unit came straight from Onkyo,HINT-HINT. Which would explain a lot. I am running a different firmware version... HINT-HINT... But since I was doubted and insulted I won't post anymore info here. Believe me I wanted to but I could not for obvious reasons... Being FLAMED is not fun, and I take my comparisons very seriously. I have 3 players running at the same time. I even purchased the same movies so I can compare them at the same time (how unscientific ), and yes it does take awhile when viewing SD dvds and HD DVDs. I try to be as subjective as I can in terms of picture Q. When my unit turns on it takes the same amount of time to boot up. Loading a disc takes about 10 to 12 seconds. I don't see what the big deal is. I never stated from turning on it takes 10 to 12 seconds to start a movie. As for more info I am sure the "real" expert returning his HD805 can help.

I was waiting to get a phone call from Toshiba to confirm more info I was told from my Onkyo contact. I did get the call which confirmed it. I will not post in the HD DVD player threads anymore. It is not worth the hassle. I am SLOPPY and I do not wear WATCHES. But if you had my HD805 you wouldn't worry about a stupid stopwatch!

I appreciate the support and kind words from many of you. I will also continue to pass out the receiver updates. I have since sent out 2478 firmware updates (combined 875/905) and do not mind doing so. This is a hobby to me and I have fun doing it. I also like helping others. I am sorry if I misled you with my initial post on the HD805. I thought all units would be shipping the same. I did not know mine given was updated(not sure when it will be ready for distribution) at Onkyo before I got it. I love my contact (I really do ) but that info would have been more helpful 48 hours ago! Again, I am sorry. At least I and we know all of them will be like that hopefully soon... Take care, you can still PM me or find me in the receiver or PJ threads.
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post #787 of 834
11/29/07 at 4:35am
Joe,
Thanks for your time and efforts! The VAST MAJORITY of us really do appreciate it!
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post #788 of 834
11/29/07 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Joe,
Thanks for your time and efforts! The VAST MAJORITY of us really do appreciate it!

Please note that I think everyone on this thread who Joe feels probably criticized him has said they appreciate his input. I know I do appreciate it. Brad has said he appreciates it from the get-go.

I have provided my own measurements and insight into things I disagree with. All we have asked for is Joe to clarify on these things. They were not personal attacks, nor did they imply we wouldn't appreciate his input. Unfortunately Joe desided to respond by shutting down and using some unfortunate wordings, but I can't help that.

If he indeed is running a different firmware version that might explain things. This is the first we hear of that. I still don't understand quite what the 10-12 second number means, is it for the first load of a disc after bootup (+/- 30s on my player and Brad's Onkyo) or is it for subsequent loads after stop has been pressed (6s on my player and Brad's Onkyo).
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post #789 of 834
11/29/07 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

StevieC is right (thanks by the way ). I won't respond since I am to unscientific. The load times are improved (on the main batch of units) as I suggested. I did not use a stopwatch. This is my last post over here, I am not wasting my time. I will finish with some interesting info which I will not go into detail on. My unit came straight from Onkyo,HINT-HINT. Which would explain a lot. I am running a different firmware version... HINT-HINT... But since I was doubted and insulted I won't post anymore info here. Believe me I wanted to but I could not for obvious reasons... Being FLAMED is not fun, and I take my comparisons very seriously. I have 3 players running at the same time. I even purchased the same movies so I can compare them at the same time (how unscientific ), and yes it does take awhile when viewing SD dvds and HD DVDs. I try to be as subjective as I can in terms of picture Q. When my unit turns on it takes the same amount of time to boot up. Loading a disc takes about 10 to 12 seconds. I don't see what the big deal is. I never stated from turning on it takes 10 to 12 seconds to start a movie. As for more info I am sure the "real" expert returning his HD805 can help.

I was waiting to get a phone call from Toshiba to confirm more info I was told from my Onkyo contact. I did get the call which confirmed it. I will not post in the HD DVD player threads anymore. It is not worth the hassle. I am SLOPPY and I do not wear WATCHES. But if you had my HD805 you wouldn't worry about a stupid stopwatch!

I appreciate the support and kind words from many of you. I will also continue to pass out the receiver updates. I have since sent out 2478 firmware updates (combined 875/905) and do not mind doing so. This is a hobby to me and I have fun doing it. I also like helping others. I am sorry if I misled you with my initial post on the HD805. I thought all units would be shipping the same. I did not know mine given was updated(not sure when it will be ready for distribution) at Onkyo before I got it. I love my contact (I really do ) but that info would have been more helpful 48 hours ago! Again, I am sorry. At least I and we know all of them will be like that hopefully soon... Take care, you can still PM me or find me in the receiver or PJ threads.

pm sent.
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post #790 of 834
11/29/07 at 6:12am
Jesus people....this is not some cure for cancer. Breathe in, breathe out.

Maybe Onkyo & Toshiba will include a DVD Forum approved stop watch in the box instead of movies so we can scientifically-specifically-undeniably know exactly the...um load times.

Whew...
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post #791 of 834
11/29/07 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

StevieC is right (thanks by the way ). I won't respond since I am to unscientific. The load times are improved (on the main batch of units) as I suggested. I did not use a stopwatch. This is my last post over here, I am not wasting my time. I will finish with some interesting info which I will not go into detail on. My unit came straight from Onkyo,HINT-HINT. Which would explain a lot. I am running a different firmware version... HINT-HINT... But since I was doubted and insulted I won't post anymore info here. Believe me I wanted to but I could not for obvious reasons... Being FLAMED is not fun, and I take my comparisons very seriously. I have 3 players running at the same time. I even purchased the same movies so I can compare them at the same time (how unscientific ), and yes it does take awhile when viewing SD dvds and HD DVDs. I try to be as subjective as I can in terms of picture Q. When my unit turns on it takes the same amount of time to boot up. Loading a disc takes about 10 to 12 seconds. I don't see what the big deal is. I never stated from turning on it takes 10 to 12 seconds to start a movie. As for more info I am sure the "real" expert returning his HD805 can help.

I was waiting to get a phone call from Toshiba to confirm more info I was told from my Onkyo contact. I did get the call which confirmed it. I will not post in the HD DVD player threads anymore. It is not worth the hassle. I am SLOPPY and I do not wear WATCHES. But if you had my HD805 you wouldn't worry about a stupid stopwatch!

I appreciate the support and kind words from many of you. I will also continue to pass out the receiver updates. I have since sent out 2478 firmware updates (combined 875/905) and do not mind doing so. This is a hobby to me and I have fun doing it. I also like helping others. I am sorry if I misled you with my initial post on the HD805. I thought all units would be shipping the same. I did not know mine given was updated(not sure when it will be ready for distribution) at Onkyo before I got it. I love my contact (I really do ) but that info would have been more helpful 48 hours ago! Again, I am sorry. At least I and we know all of them will be like that hopefully soon... Take care, you can still PM me or find me in the receiver or PJ threads.

Joe,
Now this actually pisses me off. You might be good at evaluating AV gear, but you suck at communication. My first exchange with you in this thread was a straight-up reporting that my load times didn't match yours by a good 15-20 seconds. I very directly asked what your methodology was for the numbers you reported so I could try and get to the heart of the issue. Now the simplest thing would have been to grab a damn stop watch and actually time what it took to load various discs. I even asked you for specific titles so that I might compare the same titles on my end. I was always very direct, yet somewhat confused at what could cause such a discrepancy. It wasn't until you got all bent out of shape that someone didn't believe you (when they had evidence that directly contradicted your findings) that things went astray:
Quote:


Brad Ley, if you don't like the Onkyo then just return it. And next time, don't read my report...

A bit unnecessary, I thought. Especially since I was having different findings on my end and was trying to get a read on what was different. And then this gem was what really set me off:
Quote:


Just return it then since you obviously cry about load times more than anyone else I know on the forum... Geez...

But the point is, you were right and I was right, and now we find out that you do, in fact, have a magic player. But if you'd have just answered my questions directly and just said, "it was this disc and it was exactly this many seconds from tray in to picture" That would have been enough and we could have collectively tried to figure out the gap. Instead you got defensive, condescending and rude when questioned and I wasn't the only one who noticed. This AV SCIENCE. When I ask a question, I'm not asking to call someone a liar. I'm actually looking for facts to make the best decision possible. Because you got so defensive and evasive, only then did it seem like some people had a hard time following you.

Having said all that, I don't hold any ill will against you and think this whole thing got way out of hand and probably misinterpreted on all sides. My apologies to you for letting it go that far. Things are definitely becoming clearer and more interesting.
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post #792 of 834
11/29/07 at 6:27am
Lets try to move on from load times, ok? A few seconds at the start of the movie compared to at least an hour actually watching doesnt seem worth arguing about.
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post #793 of 834
11/29/07 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by efjay View Post

Lets try to move on from load times, ok? A few seconds at the start of the movie compared to at least an hour actually watching doesnt seem worth arguing about.

+1
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post #794 of 834
11/29/07 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

This is my last post over here, I am not wasting my time.

Probably a good idea. Joerod I have enjoyed your reviews, but you lost your credibility on this one IMHO. All you had to do was do a simple scientific timing, but for some reason you got very defensive. This is AV/Science after all and you know how seriously people take this crap. You somehow have a different FW? You must have some big contacts at Onkyo, and it is hard honestly to know if you are giving us unbiased info because of this, sorry. I find it VERY hard to believe that there is any difference in PQ between this unit and the XA2, but I could be wrong. Can anyone who is not afiliated with Onkyo give their impression on the Onkyo vs XA2 1080/24p PQ?

I personaly would like to hear a "real world" report from a "real world" 805 that I would go into a store and buy which is what Brad has given us. From all reports so far (and this could change) it seems for all practical purposes to be an XA2 with the Onkyo name slapped on.
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post #795 of 834
11/29/07 at 7:28am
as I recall when the germans have tested this onkyo unit they did say batman begins indeed looked slightly better on it than on the toshiba xe1.
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post #796 of 834
11/29/07 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vmk2 View Post

as I recall when the germans have tested this onkyo unit they did say batman begins indeed looked slightly better on it than on the toshiba xe1.

This must have been the AreDVD PREVIEW. The final review says, that there is not difference to the XE1.

Read the (german) Review here:
http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2007/...hd805_01.shtml

and the google-translation:
http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Micha
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post #797 of 834
11/29/07 at 7:52am
yes I was referring to that preview. thanks for pointing out they made a final review, a real pity it is identical to the toshiba.
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post #798 of 834
11/29/07 at 8:22am
Quote:
But the point is, you were right and I was right, and now we find out that you do, in fact, have a magic player.

You actually believe that?
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post #799 of 834
11/29/07 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

You actually believe that?

Same unit, different firmware.
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post #800 of 834
11/29/07 at 9:27am
Molehill -----> Mountain.
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post #801 of 834
11/29/07 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Ley View Post

But the point is, you were right and I was right, and now we find out that you do, in fact, have a magic player. But if you'd have just answered my questions directly and just said, "it was this disc and it was exactly this many seconds from tray in to picture" That would have been enough and we could have collectively tried to figure out the gap. Instead you got defensive, condescending and rude when questioned and I wasn't the only one who noticed. This AV SCIENCE. When I ask a question, I'm not asking to call someone a liar. I'm actually looking for facts to make the best decision possible. Because you got so defensive and evasive, only then did it seem like some people had a hard time following you.

+1

I don't see what set Joe off? Reviews (even informal ones) get questioned and compared and we are usually better off for it. Nothing to get defensive about. It's called sharing data. If your numbers don't match mine, we try to find out why. That's part of the fun.

As far as timings not being a big deal, I disagree. One of the knocks against HDM players is the slow load times. If Onkyo has found a way to greatly reduce those times, that's news! It would also point to a difference between the 805 and the A2X. A value add if you will. My guess is that, if this is firmware related, the A2X will see the improvement as well, if there is one (I still don't understand what Joe's timing represented).

Oh well. I guess we'll have to wait to find out since Joe has taken his ball and gone home.

John
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post #802 of 834
11/29/07 at 11:00am
Brad, I apologize to you to but it just wasn't you. I received a few nasty PMS (some saying I am a LIAR also because of the Pioneer 95 statement that I did not even make but read over here that I did) that were very uncalled for. I really liked your review of the new Panny 30K. I learned a valuable lesson as to why most of the topdogs in the AV industry do not post in these (HD DVD & Blu ray) threads. Some things are better left unsaid. My unit was supposed to be delivered to me last Wednesday or Friday but UPS screwed up and made it Monday. I am glad now I did not get it then because I would have misled more people. Again I am sorry to those that I let down. I do not plan to do anymore nextgen player reviews. Also, if you had to return your unit just send me a PM and I will compensate you for your gas. Take care all because this is my last post over here... For sure this time...

Oh and I would say (as did Onkyo & Tosh) the HD805 (at least mine) is more of a cross between the XA2 and the up and coming XA3...
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post #803 of 834
11/29/07 at 11:01am
You guys seriously need to take the non player related personal statements out of this thread. They're not helpful.
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post #804 of 834
11/29/07 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Oh and I would say (as did Onkyo & Tosh) the HD805 (at least mine) is more of a cross between the XA2 and the up and coming XA3...

Good luck Joe, sorry to see you go. Thank you so much for the above quoted tidbit about the upcoming XA3. Now I'm more excited than ever and will wait for the XA3. Thanks again.
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post #805 of 834
11/29/07 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Oh and I would say (as did Onkyo & Tosh) the HD805 (at least mine) is more of a cross between the XA2 and the up and coming XA3...

Nice. I cannot wait to see what Toshiba unveils with the XA3. Too bad I just purchased the XA2 and the wife won't let me pick up the XA3 for quite a while...
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post #806 of 834
11/29/07 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Oh and I would say (as did Onkyo & Tosh) the HD805 (at least mine) is more of a cross between the XA2 and the up and coming XA3...

...hrm, that's sure to provoke...

It's weird how this wouldn't be made a far bigger deal about - frankly, if the Onkyo really is significantly "better" than the XA2, you'd hope that there would be clear indications of such from them. Simply buying a rebadged unit at a higher price does indeed come across as a bit foolish, but if there are real world differences it'd be great to hear about them. As it stands, to this less-than-casual observer, the Onkyo holds nothing that the XA2 does not, and the XA2 does the picture control thang out of the box without a need for remote control replacement.

That said, it's not like it's out of the realm of possibility that this player in fact is souped up far more than might at first appear. I'd hope, Joe et. al., that you'd take the criticism in stride (from a third party perspective, it was hardly cutting or personal), and continue to assist the community in getting proper information about these models out to us tangled masses...
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post #807 of 834
11/29/07 at 2:01pm
Bummed to see joe go,
One of my favorite AVS'rs - always looked forward to your reviews joe.


Has anyone heard more on this unit being discontinued? It was mentioned in the HDM News thread.
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post #808 of 834
11/29/07 at 2:28pm
you shouldn`t go joerod.
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post #809 of 834
11/29/07 at 3:54pm
Hey guess who was the first to be really right!!.....from post #706 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12334932

"Your now the second poster I've seen on this thread say the load times haven't changed (other guy in Europe on the last page)....joerod must have got a really special unit!"

I'm glad we've cleared it up and I hope this new firmware comes along someday for my XA2....
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post #810 of 834
11/29/07 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Brad, I apologize to you to but it just wasn't you. I received a few nasty PMS (some saying I am a LIAR also because of the Pioneer 95 statement that I did not even make but read over here that I did) that were very uncalled for.

That is a matter for the moderators to deal with. People who would skulk around and attempt to insult via PM should be tolerated no more than those that attack on the forum openly.

The faster this sort of individual is reported into non-existance the better it will be for everyone.
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