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Dual format or dual players?

post #1 of 36
6/7/07 at 6:23am
Thread Starter 
Wondering which way I should go. This year (sooner or later) I want to get a HD player. I rent all my movies from Blockbusters, and they now offer both new formats.

The new player will feed a 1080i Pioneer HD RPTV via component cables. My audio system is 5.1, using an analog multichannel preamp (Sony TAP) and separate amps. This equipment I do not plan to change in the near future. So I need player(s) with analog audio outs and decent DACs.

My existing player is an old Sony DVD/SACD non-progressive unit, if one of the new player did upconversion for the standard DVDs I rent, that would be nice too.

If I went with two players, I would buy one player now, then the other later. A more $$$ combo player would have to wait.

As of right now, do the separate players have better performance/features at a lower price?
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post #2 of 36
6/7/07 at 11:23am
what I did was buy the $250 Costco HD DVD player. When the blu-ray players get to about the same price I will buy one of those. What I figured is I could spend $600 now on a blu-ray or $600 total and wait a few years for a blu-ray and have HD DVD now.
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post #3 of 36
6/7/07 at 12:11pm
Thread Starter 
That sounds like a good plan, I'll have to check my local Costco for that player.
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post #4 of 36
6/7/07 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

what I did was buy the $250 Costco HD DVD player. When the blu-ray players get to about the same price I will buy one of those. What I figured is I could spend $600 now on a blu-ray or $600 total and wait a few years for a blu-ray and have HD DVD now.

I plan on doing this, although at a higher price level. I am waiting on the XA2 to get to $500 and then a full featured BR player (5.1 analog outs, all audio codecs, BD-J 1.1) to get to the $500 level (I'm thinking around November-ish).

If you need 5.1 analog outs then you will need to go with an XA2. The lower priced HD DVD doesn't have them (I believe).

The XA2 is priced around $599 right now, but I think it will drop soon. Something along the lines of what is happening with the Toshiba $100 discount that is happening on the lower end models.

I'm waiting on the additional features that I really want in a BR player (DTS-MA, and BD-J 1.1). Other wise the new Sony that is coming out in the next week has 5.1 outs and is priced at $499.
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post #5 of 36
6/7/07 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jg! View Post

I plan on doing this, although at a higher price level. I am waiting on the XA2 to get to $500 and then a full featured BR player (5.1 analog outs, all audio codecs, BD-J 1.1) to get to the $500 level (I'm thinking around November-ish).

If you need 5.1 analog outs then you will need to go with an XA2. The lower priced HD DVD doesn't have them (I believe).

The XA2 is priced around $599 right now, but I think it will drop soon. Something along the lines of what is happening with the Toshiba $100 discount that is happening on the lower end models.

I'm waiting on the additional features that I really want in a BR player (DTS-MA, and BD-J 1.1). Other wise the new Sony that is coming out in the next week has 5.1 outs and is priced at $499.

how are you going to use both sets of analog outs at the same time? most receivers only have one set for 5.1 in.

IMO better to get 2 lower cost players and put the extra money into a new receiver with hdmi switching.
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post #6 of 36
6/7/07 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverjg View Post

how are you going to use both sets of analog outs at the same time? most receivers only have one set for 5.1 in.

IMO better to get 2 lower cost players and put the extra money into a new receiver with hdmi switching.

Or just get the existing LG dual format player. I'll bet that would be a lower cost than 2 players, PLUS a new receiver.
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post #7 of 36
6/7/07 at 4:30pm
Personally, I like getting dual players at a used-price. I can still play hi-def movie if one goes out. Once dual-format player get less glitches & price drops, I may get one then.

Cheers,

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhome View Post

Wondering which way I should go. This year (sooner or later) I want to get a HD player. I rent all my movies from Blockbusters, and they now offer both new formats.

The new player will feed a 1080i Pioneer HD RPTV via component cables. My audio system is 5.1, using an analog multichannel preamp (Sony TAP) and separate amps. This equipment I do not plan to change in the near future. So I need player(s) with analog audio outs and decent DACs.

My existing player is an old Sony DVD/SACD non-progressive unit, if one of the new player did upconversion for the standard DVDs I rent, that would be nice too.

If I went with two players, I would buy one player now, then the other later. A more $$$ combo player would have to wait.

As of right now, do the separate players have better performance/features at a lower price?
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post #8 of 36
6/7/07 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Or just get the existing LG dual format player. I'll bet that would be a lower cost than 2 players, PLUS a new receiver.

if somebody doesn't care about all the missing features then it might be a good choice for them.

if you want a new receiver anyway eventually, then the receiver isn't an extra cost. it just depends on the particular situation.

imo if they come out with a full featured combo player with analog outs, that is a great solution for sombody that wants to keep their existing receiver.

but, if the receiver is going to be replaced eventually anyway, imo it is better to have two separate players that are optimal for each format then to have a dual format player.

if you are going to get a reciever anyway, you can have more money to spend on it by getting cheaper separate players. the higer quality receivers have upscaling like the high end players. with such a receiver you can (in theory) get the same 1080p output that you would get from high end players and also upscaling for any other video sources like cable, etc.
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post #9 of 36
6/7/07 at 7:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverjg View Post

how are you going to use both sets of analog outs at the same time? most receivers only have one set for 5.1 in.


In my case, the Sony TAP9000ES has 2 sets of 5.1 analog ins, along with a third 5.1 bypass input, plus a 2 channel bypass input.

Video switching would be done by my HDTV.
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post #10 of 36
6/7/07 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhome View Post

In my case, the Sony TAP9000ES has 2 sets of 5.1 analog ins, along with a third 5.1 bypass input, plus a 2 channel bypass input.

Video switching would be done by my HDTV.

that works.

imo two players with analog outs would be great with a setup like that.

i am not a fan of dual format players except in the case of only having one set of analog inputs.... or maybe a combo hooked to a tv with one hdmi input.

imo combo = all of the problems of 2 formats + a few new problems in one package.

the best of the best single format players usually have a few extra features

if one breaks you always have the other to keep the ht open.
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post #11 of 36
6/9/07 at 9:21am
I think the analog outs are over-rated. People should test them (and TrueHD) before they spend a bunch of money just for that. I think you have to really be more of an audiophile to appreciate the difference and I think most home theater fans are much more videophiles then vice versa.

To me the analog outs are definitely not worth the extra cost. Sooner or later you will get a receiver with HDMI anyway - so I'd go for the cheaper player if the analog outs are your only concern.
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post #12 of 36
6/9/07 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

I think the analog outs are over-rated. People should test them (and TrueHD) before they spend a bunch of money just for that. I think you have to really be more of an audiophile to appreciate the difference and I think most home theater fans are much more videophiles then vice versa.

To me the analog outs are definitely not worth the extra cost. Sooner or later you will get a receiver with HDMI anyway - so I'd go for the cheaper player if the analog outs are your only concern.

I agree to this to a point. The lossless audio codecs are a good idea. But having to use discrete analog outs to to get the full benefit is a bad idea. That's the same reason why I liked DVD-A over SACD. It utilized the single 'digital' audio out. The receiver/preamp is the proper place to decode all of this crap.
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post #13 of 36
6/9/07 at 8:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

To me the analog outs are definitely not worth the extra cost. Sooner or later you will get a receiver with HDMI anyway - so I'd go for the cheaper player if the analog outs are your only concern.

Well it depends. The price difference between a HD-A2 and HD-XA2 is what, $300-$500? How much will I need to spend on a new receiver to match or exceed the performance of my three Aragon stereo amps (two 8008 series, one 8002)? Or a SOTA pre/pro, to go with those amps, for that matter? LOTs more than $300-$500 I imagine.
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post #14 of 36
6/9/07 at 10:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jg! View Post

I plan on doing this, although at a higher price level. I am waiting on the XA2 to get to $500 and then a full featured BR player (5.1 analog outs, all audio codecs, BD-J 1.1) to get to the $500 level (I'm thinking around November-ish).

If you need 5.1 analog outs then you will need to go with an XA2. The lower priced HD DVD doesn't have them (I believe).

The XA2 is priced around $599 right now, but I think it will drop soon. Something along the lines of what is happening with the Toshiba $100 discount that is happening on the lower end models.

I'm waiting on the additional features that I really want in a BR player (DTS-MA, and BD-J 1.1). Other wise the new Sony that is coming out in the next week has 5.1 outs and is priced at $499.

You can get the XA2 now for your the price you want, from forum sponser Value Electronics!
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post #15 of 36
6/11/07 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliverjg View Post

how are you going to use both sets of analog outs at the same time? most receivers only have one set for 5.1 in.

IMO better to get 2 lower cost players and put the extra money into a new receiver with hdmi switching.


My Lexicon MC-8B has two sets of analog ins.
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post #16 of 36
6/12/07 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim.bennett View Post

You can get the XA2 now for your the price you want, from forum sponser Value Electronics!


I pulled the trigger yesterday. Now just waiting on a BR with DTS-MA and BD-J 1.1 for $500 or under, then I'm neutral.
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post #17 of 36
6/19/07 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

what I did was buy the $250 Costco HD DVD player. When the blu-ray players get to about the same price I will buy one of those. What I figured is I could spend $600 now on a blu-ray or $600 total and wait a few years for a blu-ray and have HD DVD now.

This is certainly the easiest way into HD. You are suppose to get 5 free HDDVDs with that too. Nice.
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post #18 of 36
6/30/07 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

I think the analog outs are over-rated. People should test them (and TrueHD) before they spend a bunch of money just for that. I think you have to really be more of an audiophile to appreciate the difference and I think most home theater fans are much more videophiles then vice versa.

To me the analog outs are definitely not worth the extra cost. Sooner or later you will get a receiver with HDMI anyway - so I'd go for the cheaper player if the analog outs are your only concern.

while i agree with everything you said, based on this poster's equipment, he is definately set up to maximize true HD. he is running a seperate pre-amp/amp setup. in a situation like his, i would definately spend a little extra to get the analog outs, or buy a HD-A1 for less an still have analog outs.

as for upconversion, the a1 and xa2 both do a great job, over HDMI. you can't upconvert most diks over component unless you burn them to remove the copy protection, then upconversion over component looks very good. if you pioneer has HDMI, this might be the thing to do. run the audio to your preamp, run the video to the TV via HDMI. then you have the best of both worlds.
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post #19 of 36
6/30/07 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean111 View Post

...as for upconversion, the a1 and xa2 both do a great job, over HDMI. you can't upconvert most diks over component unless you burn them to remove the copy protection, then upconversion over component looks very good. if you pioneer has HDMI, this might be the thing to do. run the audio to your preamp, run the video to the TV via HDMI. then you have the best of both worlds.


Well, the Pioneer has DVI-D inputs, so I assume I can use a conversion cable. Whether upconverting will help on this set, I'm not so sure. Right now I use it's component inputs, for all my SD and HD sources. I have compared using identical analog (component) vs digital (DVI) HD cable video signals to the Pioneer set, and saw no difference, I' assuming due to the analog nature of the TV. Plus there's a lenght of cable run issue, so a DVI/HDMI booster or extender would be in order.

Last weekend we picked up a new Panasonic 42" plasma (w/HDMI inputs) for the bedroom, also got an additional Motorola box, for the Panny, from my cable co. It is the 6200 model (non-DVR) and has DVI-D outputs, instead of HDMI. So I'm using a DVI to HDMI cable, works great and the picture is stunning! I ran an extra HDMI x HDMI cable to the Panasonic, for a future DVD player.


I would like to pick up a HQ multi input/output video switcher w/component and HDMI I/Os, instead of a receiver. Any suggestions?
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post #20 of 36
7/29/07 at 7:47am
dual players for me. I also have a pair of back up players just to be safe.
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post #21 of 36
7/29/07 at 8:15am
You could also still get a BR player now and do what I call 'recycling'.

Buy a BR player at best buy for your budget aprox $500 like the ps3. take it back for a refund within 30 days and go to circuit city and buy a different one. take that back within 30 days and go back to best buy for another one. Keep this up until the BR you really want comes out and settle with that one. That way you can have the best of both formats now. I plan on selling both my BR and HD DVD players for the Samsung dual formater due out in November.

Not to mention I'm soon to be purchasing the Onkyo 875.
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post #22 of 36
7/29/07 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post

You could also still get a BR player now and do what I call 'recycling'.

Buy a BR player at best buy for your budget aprox $500 like the ps3. take it back for a refund within 30 days and go to circuit city and buy a different one. take that back within 30 days and go back to best buy for another one. Keep this up until the BR you really want comes out and settle with that one. That way you can have the best of both formats now. I plan on selling both my BR and HD DVD players for the Samsung dual formater due out in November.

Not to mention I'm soon to be purchasing the Onkyo 875.


Yes this method will keep prices low for all consumers.
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post #23 of 36
7/29/07 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

Yes this method will keep prices low for all consumers.

Not to mention that stores like Best Buy and Circuit City keep tabs on customers that do this, and will eventually ban them from being able to do any future returns. Even legitimate ones.
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post #24 of 36
7/29/07 at 1:01pm
Well if you do it within reason a time or two. As long you do eventually land on a player you like and decide to keep.


sheesh.
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post #25 of 36
7/29/07 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post

Well if you do it within reason a time or two. As long you do eventually land on a player you like and decide to keep.


sheesh.

Within reason??? You do know the difference between right and wrong... right?
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post #26 of 36
7/29/07 at 9:24pm
I have no problem with trying out a product and returning it if you don't like it. With these big box stores there is no personal service and half of the gear isn't hooked up anyway.

Now buying and returning to "float" your money until dual players / one side wins is just not right. Look at the costco return policy on TV's now....why do you think they changed it? Because people where "upgrading" their TV years after they purchased it...and probably getting money back, too.
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post #27 of 36
7/30/07 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

I have no problem with trying out a product and returning it if you don't like it. With these big box stores there is no personal service and half of the gear isn't hooked up anyway.

Now buying and returning to "float" your money until dual players / one side wins is just not right. Look at the costco return policy on TV's now....why do you think they changed it? Because people where "upgrading" their TV years after they purchased it...and probably getting money back, too.


To be fair when I bought my TV from Costco (It still works so I did not return it) the salesman volunteered that the policy was for life, he even went so far as to say "if in ten years your TV breaks down bring it back for a full refund". The good old days.
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post #28 of 36
7/30/07 at 4:21pm
I would go for two seperate players incase one croaked. that's only if you have the room in your HT setup.
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post #29 of 36
7/30/07 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezycheech View Post

I would go for two seperate players incase one croaked. that's only if you have the room in your HT setup.

Well in that case, why not just buy 2 multi-format players. That way if one croaks, you can still watch ALL of your HD discs.

Sorry... I just couldn't resist.
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post #30 of 36
7/30/07 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveli View Post

To be fair when I bought my TV from Costco (It still works so I did not return it) the salesman volunteered that the policy was for life, he even went so far as to say "if in ten years your TV breaks down bring it back for a full refund". The good old days.

Key words --- "breaks down" --- I know many people abused this by returning a fully functional TV just because something better and cheaper was available now.

What was the topic of this thread again?

I'd go for a dual format player
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