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Its the content & available titles....NOT the darned pricing!

post #1 of 26
6/7/07 at 8:08am
Thread Starter 
Hi all, Im a fairly regular poster/reader on the plasma forum here and have recently been comtemplating a HD DVD player since Toshy has the A2 at such great prices right now. But..... after collecting my thoughts and thinking with the CORRECT head , I have decided to bail on the whole High-Def DVD thing for the time being. I consider myself a pretty avid video-geek, but not extreme. Im usually not an early adopter, but I dont wait too long either. I probably represent a decent chunk of the forum users here and on other boards for expectations, expenditure on video stuff, and all that so..... I'm not gonna go BD or HD for the simple reason:

There are NOT enough titles I want and there are NO guarantees that the movies I do want will be released on the format I end up with. Period. Pricing has nothing to do with it, at least not any longer. BD players for under $500 and HD DVD players for under $300 are cool with me and probably lots of other people. The disc costs, while higher than Id like are not even the real issue. Its the lack of titles. Period. If BOTH formats offered pretty much the same library that the SD DVDs have then I would immediately go buy one or the other and go for it. Even the 5 free movies that you get to pick from in the Toshibs promo offer are pretty lame. If they let ME pick the 5 titles then that might lure more people but the list is small and the movies on the free list are pretty weak and not worth owning.

So, heres the formula for High-Def dvd companies to try to use:

HUGE library of titles of movies that people actually want to own + Reasonable disc prices = Format war WINNER!

Pretty simple really. Forget all of this "extra storage space" stuff or whatever other pointless drivel these arguments or comparisons come from. To paraphrase Billy Clinton: "Its the TITLES stupid!"

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post #2 of 26
6/7/07 at 8:22am
Ummm. you do know this is how every format starts out. Weak titles being released. Do you really expect the amount of Titles that DVD has after 10 years of releasing to suddenly be available on both hi-def formats??? you have to grow into it gradually year by year.
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post #3 of 26
6/7/07 at 8:22am
...it were this simple there would not be millions and millions of dollars, years of R&D and massive global business models committed to two different formats.

While I can appreciate your opinion, this thread will only start another rehashing of each formats advantages and disadvantages, while quickly degrading into a format bashing exercise in my opinion.
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post #4 of 26
6/7/07 at 8:24am
Agree, but would add that it is not one or two things that are going to drive acceptance of either format. It's price AND availability of titles AND reliability AND distribution channels AND marketing AND product features AND industry support.

The net is that the hidef market needs to mature. The good news is that is happening quite quickly thanks to the two competing formats. They're bashing each other over the heads everyday with price cuts, more titles, better product, etc. Seriously, the HD and BD camps complement one another in the quest to move from SD to hidef. If people would just realize they are allies it would cut down on 50% of the traffic on this site and save my time wading through it .
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post #5 of 26
6/7/07 at 8:37am
I disagree with the OP.

People are not going to rush out and buy an HD DVD or bluray player just so they can rebuy their 400 dvd collection in either/both formats. If anything, consumers have generally indicated they are very reluctant to do so which is why both formats are backwards compatible, and most players seem to do a good job of upscaling DVD to HD formats.

The library sizes are a bit paltry but what's needed are new, good, quality titles since re-buying can't be counted on for significant sales. I haven't noticed a lot of new movies being released that were all that good/interesting IMO. Casino Royale was well received and thats why it's one of the (if not the) top selling bluray discs.

And of course, in order to sell titles, people need the hardware. They need (or should have) HDTVs to start, then they'll need an appropriate player. Even with price drops, that's $1000 plunked down. Christmas is 6 months away... expect sales to grow significantly then.
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post #6 of 26
6/7/07 at 8:55am
price is a big part of it. even if the a2 gets down to 150, people are still going to be hesitant when buying movies for 25-40 dollars from walmart, bestbuy, cirtcuit city, etc. especially when the dvd can be had brand new on its release date for 15.99 or less.
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post #7 of 26
6/7/07 at 9:04am
When the players are $99 for each format who's going to care which format has what content? Right now Universal has most of the content I want so if I want it in HD then HD DVD is necessary - that simple. There is some content on BD I want, but not badly enough to pay the current BD player price. I'll have both probably by this time next year just like 95% of the members here.

Cheers,

Grant
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post #8 of 26
6/7/07 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

...
There are NOT enough titles I want and there are NO guarantees that the movies I do want will be released on the format I end up with. Period. Pricing has nothing to do with it, at least not any longer. ...

If price is not a factor for you, buy both formats, you don't have to worry a thing. Even if movies you want don't get released on either formats, what do you lose, since price/cost is not a factor

Quote:


HUGE library of titles of movies that people actually want to own + Reasonable disc prices = Format war WINNER!...

So price does matter
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post #9 of 26
6/7/07 at 9:27am
If price didn't matter, sites like Fatwallet wouldn't exist. When I took the plunge, there was about a $800 price difference between the 2 formats, so I chose the low price solution.
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post #10 of 26
6/7/07 at 9:44am
It's a catch-22!

People are hesitant to buy because they don't know if/when their catalog title(s) will be released in HD and therefore won't buy. Studios are hesitant to release xyz/catalog title(s) because so few people are buying HD and don't want to spend money/time on something that won't bring back a profit.
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post #11 of 26
6/7/07 at 11:34am
For me I wanted the extra quality of HD, but not at too high of a price. As far as content, it's all available, I either purchase it on HD-DVD or DVD until it becomes available on HD-DVD. DVD is cheap enough that I don't mind and with my HD-DVD player, the up-conversion is pretty good. I will most likely purchase a blu-ray player when they're more affordable and they finished the format. I want access to all content, but not at the current prices for incomplete hardware.
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post #12 of 26
6/7/07 at 12:00pm
I have major content issues which wont be resolved quickly if at all.

Part of the problem is that I relish the weird and wonderful movies put out by boutique labels like Dark Sky, Kino , Criterion, Blue Underground, Synapse, and major minors like Image and Anchor Bay. Right now they are toughing it out in the crowded DVD market, and it's highly unlikely they can afford the added mastering and production costs HD presents.

The studios are just now putting out their odd-ball stuff to DVD, so if that took ten years on a hugely popular format, I shudder to think how long were looking at for HD.

There are a total 20 HDM titles I wanted, six unique to HD DVD, 4 unique to BD, and 10 shared by both. Since I own the whopping four BD titles on SD (with extras), BD is either going to have to get to $299 full-feature players, or a lot more movies I care about til I budge.

So out of both formats 20 titles, Deep Discounts sale and a couple pre-orders got me to buy 20 DVDs this month already.
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post #13 of 26
6/8/07 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Ramzyk View Post

I have major content issues which wont be resolved quickly if at all.

Part of the problem is that I relish the weird and wonderful movies put out by boutique labels like Dark Sky, Kino , Criterion, Blue Underground, Synapse, and major minors like Image and Anchor Bay. Right now they are toughing it out in the crowded DVD market, and it's highly unlikely they can afford the added mastering and production costs HD presents.

The studios are just now putting out their odd-ball stuff to DVD, so if that took ten years on a hugely popular format, I shudder to think how long were looking at for HD.

There are a total 20 HDM titles I wanted, six unique to HD DVD, 4 unique to BD, and 10 shared by both. Since I own the whopping four BD titles on SD (with extras), BD is either going to have to get to $299 full-feature players, or a lot more movies I care about til I budge.

So out of both formats 20 titles, Deep Discounts sale and a couple pre-orders got me to buy 20 DVDs this month already.

I am in much the same position. My fear is that if the floodgates for the more obscure titles do open, the HD discs will have no more than current SD-DVD quality. And some of these DVDs are no better than the VHS versions. They'll just convert the catalog quick and dirty.

-Bill
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post #14 of 26
6/8/07 at 7:07am
Well - one does not live for ever. We don't stop eating because we don't get exactly what we want. So my advice to anyone would be - get any / both players - rent and enjoy the movies. Simple.
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post #15 of 26
6/8/07 at 7:18am
You just keep telling yourself that OP. You enjoy your Blu Ray player with 0.2 titles. I'll enjoy my less expensive HD DVD player with 20+ discs for the same end cost.
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post #16 of 26
6/8/07 at 7:36am
I don't mind that there was not an instant, readily available massive library right off the bat for the new formats because I've personally never felt the need to buy every friggin stinker released anyway, but IMO, both sides DO already have some GREAT stuff out now (with more and more coming) that everyone should be satisfied, even some of the junkies who buy all the cheese. I don't see the need to "bail" and wait while continuing to enjoy SD - were you planning on pitching all your SD-DVD's or something? You can still enjoy those ya know, while building a great Hi Def collection - its safe - both sides are clearly well enough along that neither is gonna die - just pick the side that has what your taste favors and jump in, with the falling prices, you can always just add the other at some point down the line (when it'll be even cheaper yet) to supplement what you absolutely had to have and couldn't get....well, this has been my plan all along, and I'll bet many others as well.
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post #17 of 26
6/8/07 at 8:22am
Thread Starter 
OK, I agree with some of the counterpoints here....good stuff, good reading!

One thing I will add is that IMO, a HUGE plus for either camp will be who gets Lord of the Rings & Star Wars. These epics are two of the biggest reasons to switch to an HD format since they deserve it so much. I will NOT re-buy all of my movies....far from it. But titles like these for me will be enough to sway me one way or another. In other words, if HD DVD gets LOTR, then I'll buy an HD-A2 immediately and just watch my standard DVDs on it. If Blu-Ray gets one or the other then same thing there.

Of course..... just to screw this up even more, I bet these two epics will split with Star Wars going BD and LOTR goind HD DVD....

We shall see.....
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post #18 of 26
6/8/07 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

OK, I agree with some of the counterpoints here....good stuff, good reading!

One thing I will add is that IMO, a HUGE plus for either camp will be who gets Lord of the Rings & Star Wars. These epics are two of the biggest reasons to switch to an HD format since they deserve it so much. I will NOT re-buy all of my movies....far from it. But titles like these for me will be enough to sway me one way or another. In other words, if HD DVD gets LOTR, then I'll buy an HD-A2 immediately and just watch my standard DVDs on it. If Blu-Ray gets one or the other then same thing there.

Of course..... just to screw this up even more, I bet these two epics will split with Star Wars going BD and LOTR goind HD DVD....

We shall see.....

Actually LOTR is New Line and they will be format Nuetral. Star Wars will be up to Lucas, he may release on Blu Ray or HD DVD or both we never know. However Lucas honestly probably won't release SW on HD for at least another 3-5 years.
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post #19 of 26
6/8/07 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdizzle View Post

price is a big part of it. even if the a2 gets down to 150, people are still going to be hesitant when buying movies for 25-40 dollars from walmart, bestbuy, cirtcuit city, etc. especially when the dvd can be had brand new on its release date for 15.99 or less.

With a few exceptions, Fry's has HD-DVD's and BD's at $19.99. Which is a quite respectable price for HD content IMO. Standard DVD was still far above this price when it was only a year old.
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post #20 of 26
6/8/07 at 10:07am
I own two sets of movies that will be replaced by HD.

1. Band of Brothers
2. Star Wars

That said, price is a HUGE point for me. Like many, I have to convince my wife that we need an HD player. If I went to her and said I needed to buy a BD player at $500+ she'd tell me I was insane and possibly kick me in the nuts for even suggesting I spend 2 months of car payments on a DVD player. Not to mention, I think Sony equipment is overpriced mediocrity at best, so I'd be forced to look at Panasonic, LG, or Samsung and their players are WAY more than the entry level price point for the cheap-o Sony. She is however, Ok with me spending about $200 for the Toshiba and I have a good felling that price point for an HD A2 is going to be met VERY soon. I almost jumped in last week when it was in the $230's but given I don't have much time to do much of anything in terms of recreation (damned honey-do list!!!), I figure I have more than enough time to wait it out a few more weeks.

I am by far not an HD DVD fanboy, but my money is going with the cheaper of the two. If BD wins out fine, I'll buy a BD player in a few years when the price comes down to a reasonable level. Until then, as far as early adoption goes, anyone wanting to get their feet wet into the HD game on a budget would be nuts not to go with HD DVD.

One last thing I'm going to say that's not really on topic but was mentioned in this thread once already... Why does everyone think Casino Royale was such a good movie? IMHO it is without a doubt the single worst bond film to ever exist. No cool gadgets, the car was in the movie for like 20 seconds, and that guy (don't even care to remember his name) was a HORRIBLE bond. Just don't get it!
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post #21 of 26
6/8/07 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkozma View Post

One last thing I'm going to say that's not really on topic but was mentioned in this thread once already... Why does everyone think Casino Royale was such a good movie? IMHO it is without a doubt the single worst bond film to ever exist. No cool gadgets, the car was in the movie for like 20 seconds, and that guy (don't even care to remember his name) was a HORRIBLE bond. Just don't get it!

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. The Blu-Ray is absolutely wonderful eye and ear candy, but the movie itself is absolutely DISMAL compared to previous Bond films...
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post #22 of 26
6/8/07 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyharmonies View Post

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. The Blu-Ray is absolutely wonderful eye and ear candy, but the movie itself is absolutely DISMAL compared to previous Bond films...

I disagree. This Bond was really the first one for me to love.

That said there is probably only one other title for Blu-ray (and not for HD DVD - the new Fantastic 4) whitch I will miss without a Blu-ray player. Thus for me there are a couple more movies on HD DVD than on Blu-ray that I really like.
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post #23 of 26
6/11/07 at 12:13pm
Pricing is an issue with me too. I haven't bought into either format yet, but since Sony has better studio support, I would probably feel a little bit "safer" buying BluRay, therefore, my pain threshold for buying a player is a) HDDVD $200, b) BluRay $300, c) ComboUnit $400

PS: While I think Sony has pulled a lot of stupid stunts over the years (betamax, minidisc, sacd, memorystick), I have to give them credit for making reliable hardware. I bought a dvd player in 2001 that still is going strong. All other players I have owned since have passed on to the other side... (except my latest Philips which is only 6mo)
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post #24 of 26
6/11/07 at 4:33pm
"Its the content and available titles ..."

Must be at least half the equation since I just picked up three HD DVD movies today and I don't usually buy many discs.

Cheers,

Grant
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post #25 of 26
6/12/07 at 9:59am
Thread Starter 
Please diregard this whole post.

I bought a Toshy HD-A2 and batman Begins & Troy HD DVDs.

I just couldnt resist.....
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post #26 of 26
6/12/07 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

Please diregard this whole post.

I bought a Toshy HD-A2 and batman Begins & Troy HD DVDs.

I just couldnt resist.....


LOL!! Welcome to the HD DVD family. Have a seat at the table...
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