The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 370

Originally Posted by spectator

It's a possible question. Probably not a very interesting one.

Originally Posted by spectator

I could not disagree more completely.

Originally Posted by spectator

It's a possible question. Probably not a very interesting one.

Originally Posted by patrick99

"David Straitham"?

Originally Posted by deltasun

Lots of passive aggressive behaviour here. Why don't you stop with your riddles and tell us what your opinion is. Be constructive.

Originally Posted by rsbeck

Djoberg is correct. Jason Stratham. There is an actor named David Straitham. For some reason, I always mix the two names up.

Originally Posted by spectator

Anyway, I'll get out of my own way and give you a short version:

While I radically disagree with the notion that this thread's criteria defines a "quality" picture, exclusively, it is an agreed-upon rough standard, so if one knows it well, it can be useful for some aspects of understanding the PQ of particular discs, even if only in translation. The reviewers' thorough text explanations go a long way in helping out here.

Also, this thread is very active. I'd love it if as many opinions on as many discs were thrown around in the 'film grain allowed' thread but, to date, this one is much more hoppin'.

Additionally (as you've probably noticed), I often find the psychology that distinguishes peoples' notions of "quality" in a film image from the filmmakers' artistic priorities to be quite fascinating.

Originally Posted by spectator

Jason Statham.

David Strathairn.

Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger

The Passion Of The Christ

recommendation: Tier 1.75

A blockbuster when it first launched to theaters in 2004, Twentieth Century Fox released the Blu-ray on February 17th of this year. Two versions are included on the disc by way of seamless branching. A re-cut version that is less graphic and the original theatrical version. For the purposes of this review I have only watched the theatrical cut, which runs 126-minutes in length. The re-cut version runs for 121-minutes.

The main features are encoded in AVC on a single BD-50. The average video bitrate for the theatrical version is 22.39 Mbps per the BDInfo scan. Fox themselves list the average video bitrate on the back of the case at 22.5 Mbps. The encoding and authoring of the disc is credited to Deluxe Digital Studios. While the encode peaks around 36.0 Mbps late in the movie, most of the time it stays within a much lower range from 18.2 Mbps to 26.4 Mbps.

This is a very good video encode in terms of compression with a couple of slight flaws the only visible problems. There is a short instance of banding at the end of the movie when the rock is rolled away at Jesus' tomb. Some false contouring appears in the opening scenes that is not easily noticeable but still present. There are no motion artifacts or macroblocking throughout the entirety of the movie. I do have to wonder whether the encode would have looked slightly more transparent to the master if it had a higher average bitrate.

The original source material simply looks in phenomenal shape. There are no print marks, anomalies, or debris that affect the integrity of the image. Without having seen the master myself, it looks like a light application of temporally-filtered grain reduction has been applied at selective points. This would definitely not be picked up by a casual viewer, as high-frequency information appears virtually untouched and a constant layer of grain remains in darker scenes. It does not alter the overall look of the film but may be noticeable to eagle-eyed viewers who have familiarity with a theatrical screening of this film.

While the use of digital noise reduction barely impacts the picture quality, the real negative seen in this transfer is the overzealous use of edge enhancement. Halos appear regularly and they vary in amplitude from unobjectionable to easily noticed. A notable example for an egregious instance of this problem is the scene where the crowd has to choose between Jesus and Barabbas to free. That is not the only scene with a thick presence of added sharpening apparent. It was objectionable enough at times to drop my final ranking over half a tier in consideration. Viewers on smaller displays will ignore this problem but projection owners might want to take note.

The opening scene, set at night in the Garden of Gethsemane, looks the lowest in terms of picture quality for the movie. There is a bluish tint to the proceedings and black levels appear average at best. Fine shadow detail is resolved nicely but it does not look worthy of tier one. But once the movie shifts to daylight and the aftermath of Jesus' arrest, the image picks up strongly in quality. Watch the interior scene where Caiaphas interrogates Jesus. The tremendous depth of field and clarity exhibited are stunning. Objects look like they are going to come off the screen with excellent dimensionality to the image. These scenes have more of an amber coloring to them. Flesh tones do not look problematic but this is a highly stylized image at various points.

As the movie progresses the superior detail and resolution in the image becomes apparent. The lavish production and costume design are shown down to the finest detail, with coarse and very fine textures revealing the quality of the fabrics worn. Every wound is explicitly laid out to bare during the scourging and the makeup used for that effect is visually effective and realistic, even in 1080p. But the image reaches new heights of visual quality during the crucifixion. That scene on its own would not be awkwardly placed in tier zero. The cinematography is simply incredible throughout the film and never looks better than at that moment.

Outside of the extra sharpening, I was pleased with this transfer. I was contemplating a higher placement even considering that problem, but concluded it occurred too frequently to merit a better ranking. My recommendation is for tier 1.75, though some moments look nearly in caliber to tier zero.

Watching on a 60 Pioneer Kuro plasma at 1080p/24 fed by a PS3 (firmware 2.60) at a viewing distance of six feet.

BDInfo Scan:
http://www.avsforum.com
/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9044310#post9044310

Video Bitrate Graph:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...st_blu-ray.htm

Originally Posted by deltasun

See! Articulating your views wasn't so hard! I appreciate your points since they describe exactly how this thread differs from the "Artistic Intent" thread.

Both threads serve a distinct purpose for me. I don't weigh one over the other and, in fact, like to use both (and the audio thread) for making decisions on blu-ray purchases. These threads aren't the biggest factors in my decision, but they definitely serve as warms and fuzzies.

So again, we are not espousing that our definition of PQ is better than next door's. But there is a group of us who have found a use for the definition(s) we have set out to follow. It's not a right or wrong thing, but a "useful for our purposes" thing.

Anyway, we still appreciate your comments - you have some valuable opinions to add. I just hope you see where we are coming from as well.

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Cinema Squid has posted some grabs of Tropic Thunder:

http://www.cinemasquid.com/MovieImag...x?MovieId=2453

Amazing PQ!

Originally Posted by spectator

Is this news? Grabs of Tropic Thunder have been on this site for months.

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

They aren't the same grabs! I like the ones CS did better.

And Cinema Squid did post those here at AVS as well, but the hi rez versions (the only ones that matter) take you to his site anyway, so I didn't bother linking to the AVS thread......which is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post15979492

Any other questions/concerns Mr. Smartyass Pants?

Originally Posted by Hughmc

From Russia With Love: Recommendation tier 1.5.

LBFilmguy I had been out of town for two weeks but also decided to take some time off from our thread.

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Any other questions/concerns Mr. Smartyass Pants?

Originally Posted by spectator

Thanks for your comments, deltasun. I agree with you entirely. However, I hope you can also understand my initial reluctance to make much effort to respond to patrick99, who's question was worded like a rhetorical challenge to the validity of my presence here.

Originally Posted by spectator

Man! Everyone's assuming the worst of me today.

Originally Posted by djoberg

All kidding aside, I think we've all had one of those days at one time or another. The important thing is to learn any lessons we may need to learn and move on. You have had a lot of good input on this thread and I encourage you to keep posting with a view to making this thread profitable for all.

Originally Posted by geekyglassesgirl

side note - i miss my tv, i miss my tv... i've been out of town all week suffering without high definition. I go home tomorrow thank goodness, and hopefully will be able to get some reviews up shortly. I'm sure I'll give Beverly Hills Chihuahua (however the heck that's spelled) a rent to have quality time w/ the daughter when I get home; I remain hopeful it will help redeem Disney in my eyes after that disaster HSM3.

Originally Posted by Hughmc

From Russia With Love: Recommendation tier 1.5.


This looks as good as and even better than Dr No in some scenes and facial details. I am amazed at the transfers of these films so far. Tonight I will watch Thunderball and am hoping for more of the same.

LBFilmguy I had been out of town for two weeks but also decided to take some time off from our thread.

I decided to help the economy and broke down and bought about half the titles that I recommended in the previous post of mine. I bought the Bonds and Bourne trilogy, Passion, KK as well as the concert BD's. The new release BD rentals @ Hollywood have increased so BD seems to be getting into full swing. 5+ new titles are coming to HV next week to rent.

No one will go wrong with the Bond transfers for purchase, expecially if one is into that genre.

Sony A3000 60In. @ 7.5ft from PS3 through HDMI

rsbeck and djoberg, thanks!

Originally Posted by Hughmc

some scenes and shots being no better than vcr/dvd quality.

Originally Posted by spectator

What on Earth does that mean?