The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 666

Won't Back Down

Murky with a thick grain structure... at the start. As things improve in the film, saturation jumps in. It's late when that happens. Detail is jumpy, but imagery is always sharp. Black crush is a dominating problem.

Tier 2.0*

Your inquiry prompted me to go back into the private records I have for the Tiers. Here is the current tally for In Time:

Gamereviewgod 2.0
djoberg 1.25
lgans316 1.75

Many search engines have a problem limiting returns when you use two-letter words, which is why I didn't even bother searching this thread for the recommendations. To pull up your review, you might try some combination of your name and "time." The disc's video quality holds up upon close inspection. It's easier to pay attention to those things when the plot holes start mounting.

A little Google finessing, and I found djoberg's original review: http://www.avsforum.com/t/858316/the-new-pq-tier-thread-for-blu-ray-discussion/19110#post_21666212

Thank you kind Sir!

I see that I had two complaints (though most of what I said was praiseworthy):

1) Some overblown whites in shots with spiked contrast.

2) Dominating ORANGE and BLUE hues, at times.

Why in the blue blazes is Days of Heaven in the Bronze category? That movie looks outstanding! The close-ups, in particular, are filled with such detail, they look as if they were shot 2 hours ago, not 35 years.

Tier 3 does seem low for one of Terrence Malick's seminal works on face value. I can't really comment on the merits of the ranking, as I do not own the Criterion Blu-ray. If you've seen the disc and disagree, feel free to put forward your ranking. There are three current scores which led to its current spot, all from regular contributors.

mweflen Tier 2.75
deltasun 3.5
OldCodger73 2.75

Another Tier 2 score from someone else would definitely push Days Of Heaven into that tier.

Taken 2

ABUSIVE orange and teal. Anyone who doubts the sheer ugliness of the color combo can look at Taken 2. Facial detail comes and goes but reaches some nice peaks. Black levels are solid, and contrast is thick. A nice encode mostly keeps up. Sharpness, especially of cities and such, is quite remarkable. A winner were it not for the putrid color timing.

Tier 1.75*

Goin' down to teal town: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Taken-2-Blu-ray/48670/#Screenshots

Silent Night

recommendation: Tier 2.25*

One of the poorer new releases shot on the high-end RED EPIC digital camera, Silent Night's stunning definition and sharpness is marred by a couple of significant problems. The AVC video encode averages 21.93 Mbps, but it's evident no one closely checked if there were visible artifacts. One of the movie's most critical moments near its conclusion is bathed in macroblocking, one of the most horrific compression problems seen since the days when low-bitrate VC-1 encodes were common on BD. Another major area of concern is the digital color-timing. The first half of the film has had its palette drained of the brighter colors, leaving a stark blue tint during what is supposed to be daylight. It negatively impacts flesh-tones but more noticeably it turns the well-known Santa suit, a central motif in the movie, into a very darkish red that looks awful. I have to call into question the skills of the digital colorist on this movie. Low-light interiors have little shadow delineation, though I wouldn't necessarily call the black levels crushed.

BDInfo scan (courtesy of CinemaSquid):

http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/movies/releases/silent-night/9b7cf594-26fd-4658-9cd4-fd26feee8aaf#specs

Crime Story (1993)

Jackie Chan feature that ranks down there with some of the lowest resolution source material I've ever see on Blu-ray. Short of some passable (barely) close-ups, there is nothing here to recommend. Medium shots almost always look like this:



And, that's without much in the way of visible sharpening. Know what's worse? The co-feature I peeked at (The Protector) is miles lower on the quality scale.

Tier 4.5*

The Watch

Really lacking in the super fine detail, but solid everywhere else. Colors are super hot, and exteriors and such are stunning. Black levels die out a bit when needed most, but it's minor. Great sharpness overall, with a clean digital appearance.

Tier 2.0*

I just have to "whet your appetite" for the newly released Samsara:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/57267/samsara/

Reviewers are saying the producers of Baraka have outdone themselves this time, so I am pumped to see this. DVDtalk has some excellent pics for you to feast your eyes upon. My copy from Amazon comes tomorrow...YES!!

This one blew me away the other night. It might be the best I have ever seen my RS45 look. Curious what you guys think of it though.

Cool. Thanks for the info. I was never certain how the films were rated and ranked. Perhaps I will review a few after I get my new TV this weekend (after a proper calibration, of course).

The Protector (1985)

Second only to another Jackie Chan outing (Project A 2), so Protector becomes the second worst live action film I've ever seen on the format. Abysmal resolution, punishing blacks, some noise reduction, judder, print damage, and a weird interlacing effect I've never seen before on bright backgrounds makes this a loser on all counts.

Tier 5.0*

Realized I hadn't rated this...

Patton (remastered)

Great detail from the cloth on the uniforms to tanks and planes, good facial detail, nice color on both outdoors and indoors. No processing to be noted, no noticeable black crush. Excellent redo and they are forgiven

Tier 0.75 (behind Red Cliff).

To recap for newer users of the Picture Quality Tiers, it is entirely determined by the rankings and scores for each title put forth in this very thread. Every single title in the PQ Tiers has been given at least one proper score in this discussion and review thread by a forum member. There are no real qualifications for an opinion or score to be included, though we used to require posters mention what display they were watching the BD on and viewing distance. That has largely gone by the wayside over the years, as we have lost some of the original contributors to the list. Any input you could provide on interesting movies to you, is welcomed.

For the most accuracy possible I try to incorporate as many opinions from the discussion as possible now, even if a poster doesn't recommend a formal score. Giving a single numerical rank to a disc does help decide matters much more quickly, particularly when I am determining the consensus for contentious placements. Speaking of contentious placements...

Total Recall (2012)

recommendation: Tier 0* (near Man On Fire)

Prior reviews indicated the remake of Total Recall should end up somewhere in Tier One, an assessment I simply can't agree with. As I watch a Blu-ray and cannot think of any serious charge to level against the image, that disc automatically deserves consideration for the highest tier in my opinion. The exceptional video quality of Total Recall is nearly relentless from the first frames, producing jaw-dropping imagery for a film that relies so heavily on CGI backgrounds. It's obvious that Sony was attempting to emulate the visual appeal of its I, Robot, one of the highest-ranked films on our list since it first began. Total Recall was actually shot with a mixture of both film and digital cameras, but both are seamlessly mixed together without drawing too much attention to the fact. This is easily one of the best live-action films I've recently watched, a tick above BDs like the futuristic In Time, while slightly below the absolute best like Avatar which convey more convincing depth and realism. The pop-out effect for Total Recall is toned down in comparison, though it still provides an amazing demonstration of picture quality on the format.

You just reminded me that I have the newly Remastered version of Patton and your recommendation for Tier 0 serves as a real catalyst for me to "get my act together" (and watch it)!

First Squad: The Moment Of Truth

recommendation: Tier 2.75*

A 2009 anime feature, the raw animation is soft and hazy for a movie produced in high-definition. The washed-out color palette does no favors and there are minor instances of banding in the AVC video encode, despite the main feature lasting only 72 minutes on a BD-50. From an aesthetic point of view, the animation is mostly second-rate for a movie.

Just noticed that Spartacus season one is tier 0. A friend of mine has been telling me the show is amazing. I'm definitely picking this up now

I just got it last week. WOW. It is fantastic. I think the best PQ I've seen on BluRay. Will have to watch it a few more times with a more critical eye. Its not too common to have my jaw drop just looking at the menu screen though. Kind of makes me feel I'm watching "superbit" BluRay.

Cool. I'll be sure to find the time to make a few of my own contributions.

As for viewing distance, what would you say is optimal for a 55" Plasma?

I'm nearly finished with Season 1, and I will say for certain that it is a great show with excellent PQ. Lower section of Tier 0 sounds about right.

I will be purchasing Samsara on blu this Friday. More like cashing in a few gift cards rather than purchasing, really. Dang, that movie is expensive.
Edited by Sheriff Woody - 1/23/13 at 9:58pm

There are several different viewing-distance calculators found on the Internet for personal home theaters. This one using THX guidelines says a 55" plasma at 1080P should be viewed from:

http://www.engineeringcalculator.net/HomeTheaterCalculator.html

THX Max Allowable Viewing Distance: 103.8 in (8.7 ft)
THX Max Recommended Viewing Distance: 73.8 in (6.1 ft)
Visual Acuity Viewing Distance (20/20 vision): 128.7 in (10.7 ft)

I've found there is usually a small level of additional detail and resolution to be gained from sitting slightly closer to the display than the standard recommendations. Some forms of compression artifacts and the tell-tale signs of DNR are much easier to determine at closer viewing distances.

The Mummy (1932)

Richly textured classic horror with resolved grain and superb gray scale. A shot or two appears to have been filtered, but they are quick to pass. Great depth and bright contrast with almost no print damage.

Tier 3.5*

Thanks for the info!

I'm about 7' away with 20/15 vision.

Samsara

My initial impression of this visual/audio wonder....it's NOT *quite* as good as Baraka! I kept thinking to myself, "This looks exactly like Baraka so I'm going to nominate it for the exact same placement. But the more I thought about it the more I realized that it was lacking in a couple of areas; namely, in 1) facial closeups, and 2) closeups of animals. If you recall Baraka had some of the best (if not THE BEST) facial closeups ever! And it also featured multiple shots of animals close up revealing every detail imaginable. These were lacking in Samsara so I'm inclined to knock it down a notch for that. It did have *some* facial closeups but not nearly what we were treated to in Baraka, and those that are featured aren't as impressive, with many of them being either younger children, young females, or tribal people with tons of paint on their faces.

Don't for one minute think I'm slamming this marvel of a Blu-ray, for it still has some phenomenal details and colors throughout, and some excellent blacks levels and shadow details (come to think of it, the black levels were so amazing they easily trumped the black levels in Baraka). There was one nighttime scene where we are treated to a panaramic view of a large city for what seemed like a solid minute....the blacks levels, colors, lights, and details will BLOW YOU AWAY!!

I had recommended a high Tier 0 for Baraka when it was released in 2008, but I'm not sure it would hold up to that placement today. It currently sits close to the midway position in Tier 0 and in view of my observations noted above I would put Samsara below that mark. In view of the impossible task of finding an EXACT spot, I'm simply going to recommend....

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (right BELOW Baraka)

PS The audio was incredible!

Viewed from 7.5' using the equipment listed below....

That is a really nice summary, Denny. Thanks for getting around to Samsara, I was hoping someone would give it a thorough look. I haven't watched Baraka in a very long time and it might make sense for me to go over it once again, to check if the current placement is still justified. Often when I go back and watch an older Blu-ray now, I tend to be a little disappointed in the picture quality compared against newer releases.

Battle For Terra

recommendation: Tier 1.5*

Battle For Terra was a 2007 CGI-animated film, released by Lionsgate back in 2009. Technically, there is not much wrong with the presentation except for a sub-par video encode that looks a tad dated these days. No, the thrust of my score reflects the very average CGI imagery inherent to the movie. A grade below the big-time Pixar movies in every single visual criteria. The image lacks that extraordinary level of animated detail common to the best CGI and there is maddeningly inconsistent depth of field issues.

Deadgirl

recommendation: Tier 4.0*

At times this BD looks worthy of Tier Three, but all too often the washed-out contrast and less than inky black levels drag the final score to Tier Four. A solid release by MPI, the low-budget horror movie was simply intended to look pale and sickly, which this BD reproduces quite well.

Thanks Phantom!

I do believe Baraka and Samsara belong in Tier 0; no question about that, but there are current titles that best them. For example, my "Go To" Demo disk is still The Art of Flight. It has more and better cinematography and a wee bit more clarity and sharpness throughout. All three titles have amazing soundtracks. I guess if I were to recommend a new placement for Baraka it would be at about the .66 mark in Tier 0 and Samsara closer to the .75 mark.

I should warn anyone thinking of purchasing Samsara that it is not your average documentary. There may be those who are put off by some of the imagery, especially those showing the slaughtering of chickens and cattle. Some may also walk away depressed by observing the poverty seen in various third-world countries. Personally, I was fascinated by the mosaic of the human condition and the contrast of cultures. Add to that a haunting (and sometimes uplifting) soundtrack and you have yourself a grand, cinematic experience.

Has there been any discussion about moving the fully animated features into a different list?

Especially as the Pixar and similar releases mount up, year after year, it seems like Tier 0 will be a showcase of (very excellent) "cartoons", and crowd out "real movies". Strikes me as increasingly counter-intuitive, and makes the list a little less useful than it could otherwise be.