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The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 674

post #20191 of 21406
Bachelorette

Mediocre black levels are a killer to an detailed/not so detailed presentation. Shot digital with no signs of technology visible anywhere, flesh tones are pleasing and primaries bright. Unfortunately, with most of the most taking place at night, blacks are critical, and end up costing the film all of its depth.

Tier 3.25*
post #20192 of 21406
King Of Thorn

recommendation: Tier 1.5*


Funimation's Blu-ray of this 2009 animated film from Japan looks mildly impressive, particularly the shots that use CGI elements. The AVC video encode is surprising solid considering it's a Funimation release, as they spread the 109-minute main feature over a BD-50. Interesting character designs and intricate, colorful backgrounds make up for the slightly sub-par motion and fluidity. Not the best animation one will see in 1080P, but certainly representative of tier one.
post #20193 of 21406
Dredd Tier 3.0

It's been a while since I posted here but this one is so bad it reminded me of the existence of this thread. Was this shot on a cell phone? All dark scenes (95% of the movie) have ridiculous amounts of noise. Black levels are horrible. There are three colors, green (noise during dark scenes), red (blood) and yellow. If this is the future of cinema, I want no part of it. This was a Redbox rental that was apparently 3D, although there was nothing on the disc to indicate that. Is that why it looked so bad? I don't have a 3D setup (as the disc informed me).

EDIT: I have read some reviews after posting this review that state the 3d version, which is on the same disc I viewed, looks pretty good, and that the 2D version is seriously flawed. I agree.

Tale Heart Tier 2.5

Lousy detail, really bad black levels. The whole thing looked washed out.

The Master Tier 0

Wow. It reminded me a lot of the Thin Red Line.

BTW, the advertising on this site is completely over the top now. Ridiculous.Can I pay to get rid of it?
Edited by audiomagnate - 3/19/13 at 5:05pm
post #20194 of 21406
Life of Pi

Yep. Yep. Perfect. Stunning. Beautiful. Gorgeous. About the only thing that you can take away from this are a few effect shots that smooth out the actors. Perfect saturation in a variety of hues, dense black levels, brilliant color, exquisite sharpness. This is one for the record books.

Tier 0*, top 10.
post #20195 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

BTW, the advertising on this site is completely over the top now. Ridiculous.Can I pay to get rid of it?
Adblock will solve most of your problems.wink.gif Some sites necessitate its use.
post #20196 of 21406
Wreck-it Ralph

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamereviewgod View Post

Wreck-it Ralph

Gorgeous, as expected. Even the interiors of a chocolate underground where light is limited turns out pretty incredible. Stunning sharpness and outstanding texture on shirts, environments, and candy is everywhere. Brilliant color and plenty of different palettes to choose from. Depth is perfect.

Tier 0.25*

Due to time constraints I'm going to echo the sentiments of my colleague GRG. The only thing I would add is that I would have gone higher in my placement recommendation had there been more details in the characters. Most of them were very simplistic with smooth faces (there were a couple of rare exceptions).

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0.25*

Viewed from 7.5' using the equipment listed below...
post #20197 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Adblock will solve most of your problems.wink.gif Some sites necessitate its use.

NO! AdBlock is the scourge of the online publishing industry. If you use it, only do so for the worst offenders. #offtopic
post #20198 of 21406
Life of Pi

MESMERIZING!!

If there were such a thing as "diabetes of the eyes," I would be flat-lining right now after consuming the incredible amounts of EYE CANDY that this film provides. I believe I can say this one is better than any live action Blu-ray I've seen to date, including Avatar and The Thin Red Line. I found myself pausing scenes time and time again just to absorb all the definition. You really have to see it to believe it!

I LOVED the colors throughout....rich, warm and vibrant (especially in earlier scenes in India and later on the "floating island"). Black levels were to die for with some of the best shadow details this pair of eyes have ever seen. Details, depth, and dimensionality were simple amazing. (Details were superb in ALL shots, not just close-ups, but midrange and background shots as well.)

I watched a couple of scenes of Avatar not long ago and if I had my say the three top live action movies would be Life of Pi, The Thin Red Line, and then Avatar. So, my vote goes for putting this one above where The Thin Red Line is currently and then Avatar underneath it. There were some soft focus shots in Life of Pi, but this could be said of each one of these.

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (right above The Thin Red Line)

Viewed from 7.5' using the equipment listed below....
post #20199 of 21406
Rise of the Guardians

Yet another STUNNER!!

This one had it ALL, including FACIAL DETAILS on humans with texture, peach fuzz, etc. Every single category was amazing (Deep BLACKS, Exquisite SHADOW DETAILS, Bright & Vibrant COLORS, Amazing DEPTH, and Phenomenal SHARPNESS & CLARITY). Yes, there were quite a few "dark scenes," but with exceptional black levels and finely rendered shadow details, who cares?! I am very tempted to nominate this for King of the Blu-ray Hill, but I'm going to play it safe (for now) and put it at number 4, right above Legend of the Guardians (that title also had many dark scenes and we still deemed it worthy of being in the top 5)....

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (right above Legend of the Guardians)

PS The audio was also reference quality!

Viewed from 7.5' using the equipment listed below....
post #20200 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I can't help you out there buddy, but I just had to reply by saying "it's good to see you posting again; we have missed you!"

hey denny and gang, miss you guys and this thread as well. just too busy these days to actively participate, but like hugh, i do stop in once in a while and am glad you guys are keeping it up. hope to join you guys again someday or every once in a while.

thanks to ps for all the updates too!
post #20201 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post

hey denny and gang, miss you guys and this thread as well. just too busy these days to actively participate, but like hugh, i do stop in once in a while and am glad you guys are keeping it up. hope to join you guys again someday or every once in a while.

thanks to ps for all the updates too!

We were spoiled when you were a regular contributor delta, for you not only offered MANY reviews, but they were always honest and well-done. Chime in whenever you can (though I surely understand how life's demands can hinder us from enjoying this *hobby*).
post #20202 of 21406
Seeking a Friend for the End of the World

recommendation: Tier 1.25*

The image has exceptional detail for a dark comedy such as this movie. The transfer has not been filtered or processed at the digital intermediate stage, retaining the full potential of 1080P resolution. Shot using the Arri Alexa, the naturally sharp picture is nearly perfect in all attributes such as contrast and black levels. The color palette is fairly neutral, rendering flesh-tones without excessive coloration. What keeps the Universal Blu-ray out of the top tier is the lack of projection and depth, missing some of the deep focus that the best demo discs should display. The AVC video encode is flawless in its transparency to the film's master.
post #20203 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I can't help you out there buddy, but I just had to reply by saying "it's good to see you posting again; we have missed you!"

hey denny and gang, miss you guys and this thread as well. just too busy these days to actively participate, but like hugh, i do stop in once in a while and am glad you guys are keeping it up. hope to join you guys again someday or every once in a while.
I had been kicking this idea around before, but your mention of being too busy to participate (which is completely understandable) has given me the impetus to hopefully usher in a new era for the Tiers. This is going to be open to anyone that wants to participate as usual here, but scores for the Tiers can now be entered into the following form on Google Docs. It is valued contributors like yourself that I had in mind when making this simplified scoring process, though lurkers and others are always welcome to give their two cents on a disc.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GEVDmUrTzHYNHBZpN_8mMZvCzmYEQiUJqCNyRQAadGU/viewform

I've already made the first entry, from my last recommendation. Here is the link to the spreadsheet of results, which hopefully will grow as users get more comfortable with the form.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoQ5HYzIbPQldDIxVlZTeWs1dDlOQkZRbFN2SzZneXc&usp=sharing

This does not supersede entries from this Tiers discussion thread in any way, but I am hoping its ease of use will encourage more users to participate. It will also greatly speed up the manual process needed to maintain the Tiers.

I look forward to any feedback or comments about this idea and possible improvements to the form.smile.gif
post #20204 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

If there was an easy and automatic way for me to add it, I think the year of production would already be included in each line. At the moment I only signify the year when a movie has had a remake. If we were starting the list from scratch today, it would be included. But there really isn't a field for it in the database that K-Spaz and SuprSlow came up with for the Tiers.

bb nf The Thin Red Line Video: AVC | Audio: DTS-HD MA | AR: 2.35:1 | Criterion

In the example above, if you click on the movie's name you get taken to Cinemasquid's excellent listing for that specific movie. His site lists the movie's year and much more, including screenshots, links to Blu-ray reviews, and BDInfo reports if they are available.

I have been thinking of ways to make it easier on everyone to catalogue all the votes and placements. Possibly a web-based entry form that anyone could use here. Eighty percent of the work I do in maintaining the Tiers ends up being manual data entry most of the time. Streamlining the process might also encourage more participation by some of the lurkers.


Ok, cheers anyway. Was really just looking for a way to skim through the list and pick out some of the older classics.
post #20205 of 21406
Life Of Pi

I'll start with one word: "reference"! Truly in every sense of the word. For me, this is the best live action film I've seen on bluray to date. I didn't really think that it could get better than TTRL. One area this film has the definite edge is COLOR. They pop and are absolutely accurate. The animals look almost surreal albeit some are CG. Facial close ups are very detailed with no noise whatsoever. Blacks are inky. I could not see any black crush, no EE, overall very sharp with reference clarity. I'm almost tempted to put this at the very top of tier 0 but I haven't seen Tree of Life yet. For live action films this is the BEST.

Recommendation: Tier 0 (above TTRL)
post #20206 of 21406
Yes, I would agree the 3D disc of pi to be one of the best looking movies to date. Arri alexa seems to be the way to go, it's clearly better than red camera, at least considering what movies I've seen with both cameras (a decent amount).
I would rate the 2D disc however somewhere tier 1+, maybe 2 for blatant banding. In case you're wondering why, read the separate Pi thread.
post #20207 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeBloggz View Post

Life Of Pi

I'll start with one word: "reference"! Truly in every sense of the word. For me, this is the best live action film I've seen on bluray to date. I didn't really think that it could get better than TTRL. One area this film has the definite edge is COLOR. They pop and are absolutely accurate. The animals look almost surreal albeit some are CG. Facial close ups are very detailed with no noise whatsoever. Blacks are inky. I could not see any black crush, no EE, overall very sharp with reference clarity. I'm almost tempted to put this at the very top of tier 0 but I haven't seen Tree of Life yet. For live action films this is the BEST.

Recommendation: Tier 0 (above TTRL)

Of course I completely agree with you Joe! Regarding TTOL, it lacks color even more than TTRL, so Life of Pi is the obvious champion.
post #20208 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone else View Post

Yes, I would agree the 3D disc of pi to be one of the best looking movies to date. Arri alexa seems to be the way to go, it's clearly better than red camera, at least considering what movies I've seen with both cameras (a decent amount).
I would rate the 2D disc however somewhere tier 1+, maybe 2 for blatant banding. In case you're wondering why, read the separate Pi thread.

I checked out the thread you referred us to and you're the only one that mentions banding. Regarding the still shots you posted, I saw no evidence of banding in any of them. Even if there was, there is no way this Blu should be in Tier 1 or worse; the amazing PQ, in every area by which we judge PQ, demands a Tier 0 placement....and near the very top, IMHO!
post #20209 of 21406
Well, what can I say, that first pic I posted is a typical case of banding, I don't think I can find much worse in live action movies, only some older anime blurays, in which case the masters they get is faulty, they don't apparently use proper dithering in final stages, or even before that. To me, it's quite obvious, and banding is the only 'artefact' that shows better in motion. And second picture shows not only some banding but clear blocking in the dark areas, instead of the well encoded noise.
And if, taking into account comparison nr. 3, 2D Pi is tier 0, than what is 3D disc Pi? Tier -2? I remember in the old days when people used bluray>resize720>resize1080 to see just how much resolution a disc has. Almost all discs showed much closer resolution than comparing those 2 screens.
post #20210 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone else View Post

Well, what can I say, that first pic I posted is a typical case of banding, I don't think I can find much worse in live action movies, only some older anime blurays, in which case the masters they get is faulty, they don't apparently use proper dithering in final stages, or even before that. To me, it's quite obvious, and banding is the only 'artefact' that shows better in motion. And second picture shows not only some banding but clear blocking in the dark areas, instead of the well encoded noise.
And if, taking into account comparison nr. 3, 2D Pi is tier 0, than what is 3D disc Pi? Tier -2? I remember in the old days when people used bluray>resize720>resize1080 to see just how much resolution a disc has. Almost all discs showed much closer resolution than comparing those 2 screens.

Here's your post so others can take a look at your still shots:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462883/life-of-pi-blu-ray-2d-and-3d-comments#post_23085344

Again, even if there was a case of banding in those two shots, that would NOT be enough to drop this title down from a high Tier 0 placement (remember, three of us have weighed in already with a high Tier 0 recommendation) to Tier 1. Regarding banding, if there is one artefact that is usually seen in some of the high Tier 0 animated movies, it is banding. Yet we do not penalize them a whole tier because of that; in fact, we usually give them a pass because of the phenomenal PQ throughout 99.9% of their running time.

I should add that the other still shots that you posted looked *somewhat* flat and lacking detail (for whatever reason). When I watched the Blu-ray "in motion" they were exceptionally sharp and detailed. Those reminded me of why we can NOT make too much of still shots.
Edited by djoberg - 3/17/13 at 3:57pm
post #20211 of 21406
Just to be clear, only the first 2 shots are the ones with banding, the others show the difference in resolution between the 2d disc and the proper 3d disc.
post #20212 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone else View Post

Just to be clear, only the first 2 shots are the ones with banding, the others show the difference in resolution between the 2d disc and the proper 3d disc.

Understood. I made that distinction in my last post. Again, the shots you posted for resolution didn't look as sharp and detailed as what I saw "in motion."
post #20213 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone else View Post

Yes, I would agree the 3D disc of pi to be one of the best looking movies to date. Arri alexa seems to be the way to go, it's clearly better than red camera, at least considering what movies I've seen with both cameras (a decent amount).
I would rate the 2D disc however somewhere tier 1+, maybe 2 for blatant banding. In case you're wondering why, read the separate Pi thread.

What kind of display do you have?
post #20214 of 21406
Don't all rush to praise this idea at once.tongue.gif I was hoping a very simplified entry process for a Tiers recommendation using this form, would encourage more participation in the thread and ease the workload on myself. The following link does not require a Google account and can be opened in any browser. Anything entered into it will be counted alongside the votes from this discussion thread, though I was hoping regular contributors would also use the form in addition to posting their scores in this thread. Anyone is welcome to use this form. It might make sense to bookmark it, for future entries.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GEVDmUrTzHYNHBZpN_8mMZvCzmYEQiUJqCNyRQAadGU/viewform

I've already made the first entry, from my last recommendation, and personally added JoeBloggz's recent recommendation for Life of Pi as examples. Here is the link to the spreadsheet of current results, which hopefully will grow as users here get more comfortable with the form and begin entering their own scores.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoQ5HYzIbPQldDIxVlZTeWs1dDlOQkZRbFN2SzZneXc&usp=sharing
post #20215 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Don't all rush to praise this idea at once.tongue.gif I was hoping a very simplified entry process for a Tiers recommendation using this form, would encourage more participation in the thread and ease the workload on myself. The following link does not require a Google account and can be opened in any browser. Anything entered into it will be counted alongside the votes from this discussion thread, though I was hoping regular contributors would also use the form in addition to posting their scores in this thread. Anyone is welcome to use this form. It might make sense to bookmark it, for future entries.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1GEVDmUrTzHYNHBZpN_8mMZvCzmYEQiUJqCNyRQAadGU/viewform

I've already made the first entry, from my last recommendation, and personally added JoeBloggz's recent recommendation for Life of Pi as examples. Here is the link to the spreadsheet of current results, which hopefully will grow as users here get more comfortable with the form and begin entering their own scores.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoQ5HYzIbPQldDIxVlZTeWs1dDlOQkZRbFN2SzZneXc&usp=sharing

I have mixed feelings about it Phantom, so I wasn't going to respond until I gave it more thought.

Question: You say one can "bookmark it for future entries." Do you think it would also make sense for you to include the link in your "Signature" under your link for "Picture Quality Rankings?" I'm also thinking of the spreadsheet of results too in asking this question.
post #20216 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

I have mixed feelings about it Phantom, so I wasn't going to respond until I gave it more thought.

Question: You say one can "bookmark it for future entries." Do you think it would also make sense for you to include the link in your "Signature" under your link for "Picture Quality Rankings?" I'm also thinking of the spreadsheet of results too in asking this question.
Does my new signature satisfy your requirements? I understand the trepidation changing systems like this for a thread that has worked largely the same since 2009. It's really more a matter of data entry and not a material change to how this thread will operate. But it is something that has been on my mind for over a year now, in producing more orderly data that can be managed in an easier process behind the scenes. I hope the simplified recommendation process might also entice some of the regular contributors back that we've lost over the past two years.

The primary business of this discussion thread would work largely the same as it has for its long history. Contributors would still write up their recommendations as usual in the thread, but I merely would ask they also enter their placement in the entry form. It's really nothing more than a few seconds per placement, as the form asks for little more than your screen name and score. All votes from the thread would still be tallied by myself, even if they are not entered in the linked form.

If there are any concerns you may have with the form or this new potential nomination method, go ahead and list them. I have no intention of changing the tone or character of how the thread has operated, and merely seek a more efficient solution in keeping track of the votes. If there is too much resistance to this idea by members, I will simply use the new spreadsheet for my own purposes and manually enter the data myself.



I think someone may have previously mentioned this, but the Picture Quality Tiers got referenced by CNet in their Top-40 must-have Blu-rays list, from January of this year.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10207170-82/top-40-must-have-blu-ray-discs/

Of course, they linked to the out-of-date Tiers list, last updated in 2012.
post #20217 of 21406
^^^^^^

I have no more concerns Phantom and I'm glad this will simplify the process of tallying votes. Thanks again for all the work you do.
post #20218 of 21406
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

Tale Heart Tier 2.5

Lousy detail, really bad black levels. The whole thing looked washed out.
Audiomagnate, is "Tale Heart" the actual name for the Blu-ray you watched? I can't seem to find any record of a movie with that name or any variation on the format.
post #20219 of 21406
Willow

Excellent master, sharpness, and detail, soured a bit by color timing that pushes the entire film into orange. Grain is occasionally a bit suspect as well, with a smearing quality noticeable on many close-ups.

Tier 2.5*
post #20220 of 21406
The Day

recommendation: Tier 4.0


A film from WWE studios, The Day is a nihilistic film set in a post-apocalyptic world. The entire color palette has been bleached and drained of saturation, for all intents and purposes turning the raw color photography into a black-and-white experience. Starz / Anchor Bay has given The Day a fine technical presentation, with only some hints of noise and minor banding to mar the image. The picture is sharp with an average level of micro-detail, though the unusual color grading turns black into a light gray at times. Clarity is less than ideal during the interior scenes inside the farmhouse at night. This is a clear case where the extreme monochromatic color palette negatively affects my score.

BDInfo scan:

http://www.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray/movies/releases/the-day/b0f7dd3a-3009-471d-a163-80935c2f4aa6#specs
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