The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 354

Whats there to understand, i want to adjust those controls Also i hear entering the service menu voids your warranty on the non-elites even if you do know what you are doing.

I think the main reason you are cautioned against going into the service menu is that it has settings which can destroy your TV if you adjust them incorrectly. Not the settings you want to change, but for example there is a setting called ABL (if memory serves) which adjusts one of the internal voltages. Needless to say, this is not something you'd want to be adjusting, but you'd really have no way of knowing that just based on the name ABL.

As to the warranty voiding, I've heard it both ways. Some say that using the SM will only void your warranty if you screw your set up in the SM. Some say that use of the SM by a non-qualified person will void the warranty. Some say that anyone touching the SM will void the warranty (to which others reply you could always change your settings back to default if you wanted to call support). All of that said, I have yet to read of a case where someone was refused service from Pioneer on that basis.

Big caveat to my response: All of the above is based on my research about the Pioneers and my reading (up to page 100 now!) of the Pioneer settings thread. Even by page 100 these subjects have been discussed ad nauseum, and I believe what I've said above are accurate summaries, but I am no expert!

Where is the A3 on sale for $99?!

I've never owned a TV with a proper grayscale out of the box.

Yep. And the Kuros have an out of the box grayscale that is in the 6000-6190K range with the low color temp.

As they say, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one. In your case, that expression is particularly apt.
And just how do you do "calibrations" anyway?

My tech did acknowledge that most ISF techs posting info on the Sencore chat room acknowledged that the Elite sets are pretty good out of the box. That said, my temp curve wasn't flatlined at 6500K when he started, but it was when he left. I asked him why they couldn't set a TV / monitor at the factory to the best? He said they normally adjust into spec and that's good enough. He also said the operating environment plays a role and there is no way to control for that in the factory.
As I stated earlier, I was really surprised to see the impact of a click in a setting one way or the other on the pictures and test patterns. The idea that that you could relicate $10K worth of gear with an eyeball is laughable.
Have had two sets done professionally and played with Avia discs etc when I couldn't find a tech. I prefer the professional approach. Cost was $300. He was at the house for over 3 hours. I consider that a bargain.

As I mentioned, I was accidently given the number the field people call into for assistance. I think many of the field people aren't just pioneer techs but service many other brands. The person I talked to was a Pioneer employee. I specifically asked about a standard and was told that was not yet determined.

I am looking to get the 5080 and I am not sure where to buy. I know you can't post prices specifically but just looking around a bit I have see Roman from Invision mentioned a few times. I take it people recommend using them?

Opinions?

BestBuy has that model on sale now and then. Given that some of these panels buzz noticeably, it is worth getting it locally where returns are easier.

Just checked it out and they are no longer or sale for what they were before Christmas

This is a stupid question and probably covered, but here goes. I was lucky enough to recieve a 5080 for christmas. I am supposed to be getting HD satelite and HD DVR this Saturday. Now I only have standard digital satelite, and overall I'm happy with the SD picture quality. The only thing I don't like is I'm seeing SDE from 10 feet. Please tell me this will go away when I get HD programing.

I think you need to ask yourself if you actually know the definition of SDE as source material type (SD vs HD) has nothing to do with SDE. If you see SDE with SD signals, you will see the same thing with HD signals.

What is SDE?

Thanks

Never mind..."Screen Door Effect"...right? Isn't this only an issue on DLP displays?

Screen Door Effect

Wait a few days, and the 10% off will come back.

Check with Roman from Invision...much better price. Is anyone here having issues with buzzing from the 5080's? How noticable is it really?

If by SDE you mean you can see the individual pixels along with the grid between the pixels, then it will be present no matter what you're watching. The pixels can't be made any smaller. The pixels on a 1080p set are 1/2 the size of the ones on the 768p set, so they're not as apparent.

But the 5080 with its bigger pixels still shows a better picture overall than a 1080p Samsung or Panasonic plasma. You just have to sit far enough away so that the SDE doesn't bother you. At 10', you shouldn't be seeing the SDE. Are you sure that's what it is you're seeing?

Thanks for the info.

Re my last post, I fully understand the need to caution people against going into the service menu, especially by those who might have a connection to Pioneer. Why cause a bunch of service calls from clueless tinkerers?

But I don't see anything wrong with discussing how to use the service menu along with such a warning. In this review:
http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldi...ro/index4.html
the reviewer was able to improve the color temperature, which is something I value. I don't want a professional to calibrate my set, I have a colorimeter and software and would enjoy doing it myself. I will photograph the settings before changing anything. I've programmed computers; it can't be that difficult or dangerous to improve the color accuracy of my panel in the service menu IF people online share their knowledge. Then I will not have zero knowledge. I would NOT use the service menu if there was nobody online I could learn the proper procedures from in advance.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=960007
That's te reason why one should not mess with the Sm if you have no knowlegde of it. I don't even want to mess around in the non-Elite's SM.... and I know how to manuver in it.

If you would like to play around in the SM, it's your choice. The instructions on how to access it are in this thread or the settings/issues thread. Good luck.

I guess i never owned a tv that 'to me' needed grayscale. Always able to achieve a warm pick that was not to warm or blue. Even my cheap crt monitor has a d65 setting that i would wager would be flat on paper. I just dont buy a tv like a XBR or ELITE and even pansonic-non elite pioneers cant be adjusted with just plain user controls to get a very excellent picture. These tv's are very capable and the manufacurers need more credit.. Your basically hiring a mechanic to work on a new car. I know i would be nervous Can anyone claim bitwise settings with no grayscale service menu adjustments is not accurate.?


...the only settings calibrated were contrast, brightness, red, green, and blue. no need to calibrate gamma, sharpness, etc. also didn't need to get into the service menu with PC mode for grayscale calibration.

Final settings for PC Mode over HDMI:

Contrast: 38
Brightness: 0
Red: +3
Green: 0
Blue: -11

DC3ONE,
Your question is very relevant to my own post, number 10566, above, where I asked if people had eyes-on experience comparing the 5080 with the 5010, wondering if I would see a difference between the two at 8 feet.

But you are seeing Screen Door Effect at 10 feet! I looked at the Elite version of the 5080 at about 8 feet in the store and did not see screen door.

Do you have unusually good vision??

Abe

fwiw... before i bought my current set, i was able to look at (many many times ) a 5080 and a 5010 right next to each other at a bestbuy... mounted in a darkened area, but unlikely that they were calibrated correctly and they were running the in-store loop... at anything greater than 6 feet (brought my tape measure with me), they were virtually indistinguishable from one another... at 5 feet, i could see sde on the 5080 if i really concentrated and looked for it, but if i just "watched tv" on it, it wasn't noticeable...

ymmv.

ccotenj,

Many thanks for that data point! It's just the kind of thing I'm looking for - eyes-on experience with the specific models side-by-side.

I was unable to feel comfortable comparing the corresponding 50" Elite 768 and 1080 models that were on opposite sides of the room. Side-by-side is the only reliable comparison for resolution questions (other than actual measurement with test patterns, of course), even when the sets are poorly set up

BTW, what did you finally choose? Or have you done so yet?

Come to think of it, if the results were that close ("virtually indistinguishable" beyond 6 feet), why did you choose to compare the two "many, many" times?

Again, thanks for the response.

oldabe, i bought a 150fd... i really wanted the 60" set (and, fwiw, so did swmbo, and who was i to tell her no?), and some careful shopping (coupled with some selling of some stereo equipment that wasn't doing anything important anymore) put it in my price range...

i looked at them "many many" times because i often go into bb to kill some time and i tend to wander into the tv area more often than not... heck, even after i got the 150, i STILL go look at tv's... i guess i'm a tv-aholic...

heck, before i bought my old d-ila set a few years ago, i think that the clerks at cc and bb thought i lived there, i went and looked so often...

I am new to all of this so let me say, I'm the only one in my family that is seeing what I think is SDE. Most of the time when I notice it, it is fleshtones that are moving kind of slow across the screen.I have seen this model beside a 1080p Panny in a local store and did not notice it there, as a matter of fact I thought PQ better on the 5080. I wear glasses, so I don't have unusually good vision. My wife says that I "look for things to be wrong" so maybe I'm being overly critical. I know this is one the best tvs available our price range, I guess I'm looking for perfection.

Getting HD saturday, will post any differences I see.

ccotenj,

I do the same at Costco while my wife does other shoping. Much less interesting comparisons. Lots of time looking at Panasonics and Vizios in torch mode...

Fortunately for us, there is no temptation on the 60" models - we have room only for a 50".

Did you ever get to compoare an Elite Kuro with the same size PDP, side by side, for any size screen?

DC3ONE,
If you are seeing something at 10 feet that looks like screen door to you, there is something that you are seeing, newbie or not.

If you describe in more detail what you are calling SDE, perhaps it will help more experienced forum members decide what the problem is. Even if you are "looking for things tobe wrong", you are still seeing some sort of artifact, where by all accounts, there should be nothing wrong to be seen (768 at 10 feet).

Give it a go!

What I is see is not as dramatic as a buddy's RPTV. It appears more like seeing the image moving behind the glass. Maybe I'm crazy I don't know how describe it any better, sorry.

It does seem that I notice it more when in "wide zoom" or "full mode". Doesn't seem as noticable in 4:3, remember I only have SD right now.

hmmm... well, that's not sde... sde is exactly what it says, it's like "looking through a screen door", i.e. you see the lines inbetween the pixels...

sounds like some type of artifacting you are seeing...