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The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 360

post #10771 of 17517
12/30/07 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post

Yea pretty much except the 5080 has slightly higher res (1366x768 vs. 4280's 1024x768) Bluray movies have less jaggies on the 5080.....


Can't think of a reason why this would be. Jaggies are a product of poor deinterlacing and are normally associated with video sourced images. Since we are talking film, and since both sets rely on the same internal processing to deinterlace, the two should be equivalent in this regard and in most instances the image should be jaggie-free regardless.
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post #10772 of 17517
12/30/07 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentsg View Post

....I think in general it's [buzzing] part of the technology and if you can't live with it you should buy a different technology if you prefer the alternate technology's "flaws".

I don't mean to pick on you, because I'm assuming you're trying to help. I've read countless articles on the internet and in HT magazines about the pros and cons of plasmas versus, as you call them, "alternate technologys".

I've read about pros and cons in the area of black levels; contrast ratios; burn-in; viewing angles; brightness; screen reflection; motion resolution; motion blur and on and on.

I've also read internet threads where fans of one of the alternate technologies are trying to put-down plasmas by talking about its drawbacks. These discussions get unnecessarily heated. The alternate technology fans mention screen reflection; lack of brightness; dirty whites; price; burn-in; electricity draw and more.

However, I've never read an article or a thread that lists buzzing as one of the drawbacks of plasmas ... unless it is referring to buzzing at high altitudes.

Quote:
In general it's [buzzing] part of the technology and if you can't live with it you should buy a different technology".

This statement doesn't fit with my years of experience with plasmas and discussions about plasmas.
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post #10773 of 17517
12/30/07 at 12:28pm
Can any one explain the "bit" information on the information menu, sometimes it shows 30 bit other times 36 bit
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post #10774 of 17517
12/30/07 at 1:12pm
Sorry to detract but I have a quick question. Is there any difference between the 4280 and the 5080 other than size? I would love a 5080 but can't quite afford it... Thanks
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post #10775 of 17517
12/30/07 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOBE View Post

I don't mean to pick on you, because I'm assuming you're trying to help. I've read countless articles on the internet and in HT magazines about the pros and cons of plasmas versus, as you call them, "alternate technologys".

I've read about pros and cons in the area of black levels; contrast ratios; burn-in; viewing angles; brightness; screen reflection; motion resolution; motion blur and on and on.

I've also read internet threads where fans of one of the alternate technologies are trying to put-down plasmas by talking about its drawbacks. These discussions get unnecessarily heated. The alternate technology fans mention screen reflection; lack of brightness; dirty whites; price; burn-in; electricity draw and more.

However, I've never read an article or a thread that lists buzzing as one of the drawbacks of plasmas ... unless it is referring to buzzing at high altitudes.



This statement doesn't fit with my years of experience with plasmas and discussions about plasmas.

It is part of the technology. It just is not a meaningful issue with most people and most panels. The few panels where it is an issue catch a lot of press on this forum and make it seem a bigger problem than it is. Also the bigger the panel the louder the buzz. So in recent years as more 58 inch and larger panels are sold, more buzz complaints. Also as more people who are anal as we are use forums like this, the more we all are aware of and annoyed by panel buzz. Why don't you go around to some retailers who sell plasmas and listen for yourself. I believe that you will find that they all buzz(listen closely behind the panels). Maybe a day will come when they tweek the technology and get the buzz out or replace plasma with a better technology. Or you could keep buying panels and returning them until you get that rare panel that has minimal buzz. That's life. Ned, owner of two pioneer elite panels(a 1540 and a 150) that buzz.
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post #10776 of 17517
12/30/07 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothXR View Post

Well my mattress is really high, and that is the main concern really. Still, I don't want my plasma falling over, it just seems like it could fall over if it's on a stand than if it's mounted. That might be worrying too much, but it makes it easier to connect cables to the back.

I don't sit on my bed all day though watching TV; if I am watching TV, I'm usually also browsing on my laptop(next to my recliner), so the bed shouldn't be a huge issue. I will probably get another stand if I can find one that is signifcantly taller than my current one(like a foot taller). It's hard to arrange my room, but I'll try to get the recliner to be in the center of the TV's path. Is that what you have it like?

I installed a 50" FHD-1 plasma in my bedroom.

I have a very high mattress also. A wall mount provided the best possible solution: It allowed us to precisely mount the panel at the perfect height and center it perfectly.

If your studs allow, I suggest using a wall mount.
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post #10777 of 17517
12/30/07 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SephirothXR View Post

Well my mattress is really high, and that is the main concern really. Still, I don't want my plasma falling over, it just seems like it could fall over if it's on a stand than if it's mounted. That might be worrying too much, but it makes it easier to connect cables to the back.

I don't sit on my bed all day though watching TV; if I am watching TV, I'm usually also browsing on my laptop(next to my recliner), so the bed shouldn't be a huge issue. I will probably get another stand if I can find one that is signifcantly taller than my current one(like a foot taller). It's hard to arrange my room, but I'll try to get the recliner to be in the center of the TV's path. Is that what you have it like?

pretty close to the center... i gotta share the tv with my wife...

it's perfect height for me... the screen is just above the top of my macbook screen when i'm in my recliner...
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post #10778 of 17517
12/30/07 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Can't think of a reason why this would be. Jaggies are a product of poor deinterlacing and are normally associated with video sourced images. Since we are talking film, and since both sets rely on the same internal processing to deinterlace, the two should be equivalent in this regard and in most instances the image should be jaggie-free regardless.

Hm well this was noted while standing close to the screen vs. my normal viewing distance so I guess its a non issue either way, but my brother and I both agreed it looked less jagged on the 5080, I used the same scene in Harry potter OOTP bluray to compare (swing set in the beginning of the movie) I had my PS3 set at 720p when comparing both.

Speaking of resolutions.. since the 5080 is 768p should I have my PS3 set to 720p or 1080p?
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post #10779 of 17517
12/30/07 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOBE View Post

I sit 7 feet from my 50" Fujitsu. I can't hear any buzz from it, at that distance, when watching any scene in a film.

I just turned it on, with no sorurce, and I can hear a very faint electronic sound from 7' away. That's not a problem because there's always some ambient sound in a film and any sound, no matter how faint, will be louder than the electronic sound I just heard

That's pretty much my point. Plasma technology does make some noise. The noise depends on many factors that include brightness, environmental, and your own personal perception and hearing. If there is some noise it becomes subjective.

Another AVS member might have more sensitive hearing and in your home might feel that your Fuji sounds awful and unacceptable. Maybe they detect high pitched noises that you don't. Likewise, you might find your current display unacceptable in a different home due to the altitude or just the way sounds reflect off the walls there.

I know I can move my head around and the sound level and pitch of my 5010's "buzz" changes near my viewing distance. I'm assuming that it's just the way sound reflects off my walls.

Anyways discussions comparing these kinds of things are different because there are so many variables.
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post #10780 of 17517
12/30/07 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post

Yea pretty much except the 5080 has slightly higher res (1366x768 vs. 4280's 1024x768) Bluray movies have less jaggies on the 5080

interesting, thanks. I have a new PDP-4280HD, did'nt realize the slight resolution difference between it and the PDP-5080HD. Have'nt had the chance to power my 4280 up yet (still setting up system).
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post #10781 of 17517
12/30/07 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathesar View Post

I used the same scene in Harry potter OOTP bluray to compare (swing set in the beginning of the movie) I had my PS3 set at 720p when comparing both.

Speaking of resolutions.. since the 5080 is 768p should I have my PS3 set to 720p or 1080p?

Ahh, the jaggies were likely an artifact from the ps3 deinterlacer. I don't know what exactly it uses, but I'd bet it's not as good as what is in the 4280/5080. Either way, I'd probably use 1080i (or 1080p24 if your version of ps3 allows it) and that way basically the ps3 is providing as close to native from the disc as possible and then you allow the Kuro processing to take it from there.
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post #10782 of 17517
12/30/07 at 3:51pm
I own a 508XD (Elite in the states, should be 1150).
I need a good DVD player, audio amplifier and speakers.

But before buying that stuff I can't stop asking myself if a good video processore would be STRONLGY reccomended, or if it could be an enthusiast option to bring the video chain from a score 9 up to 10.

You see, everyone states 8Gs have an excellent electronics, and to be honest I'm very happy about it's PQ. Nevertheless I wonder how much SD signals could benefit from a DVDO 50 or a crystalio II VP.

Some people state VPs are not-so-needed on those TV sets. Do yuo agree? Does some 8G owner (HD ready) own such a VP and can witness wat's happening and if there's any BIG difference with or without such a VP when watching at SD sources, mostly DVD and Satellite?
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post #10783 of 17517
12/30/07 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swlee View Post

I had several "stuck" pixels on my new 6010FD - bright aqua that turned on and off depending on the scene. So, the symptoms are not quite the same as your "dead" pixel. However, playing The Incredibles DVD cured my problem within a few hours, so it's worth trying on your 5080.

Yeah, I remember reading about that in the settings thread. I just rented Toy Story and The Incredibles, and Toy Story is playing now -- so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Mitch
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post #10784 of 17517
12/30/07 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

I own a 508XD (Elite in the states, should be 1150).
I need a good DVD player, audio amplifier and speakers.

But before buying that stuff I can't stop asking myself if a good video processore would be STRONLGY reccomended, or if it could be an enthusiast option to bring the video chain from a score 9 up to 10.

You see, everyone states 8Gs have an excellent electronics, and to be honest I'm very happy about it's PQ. Nevertheless I wonder how much SD signals could benefit from a DVDO 50 or a crystalio II VP.

Some people state VPs are not-so-needed on those TV sets. Do yuo agree? Does some 8G owner (HD ready) own such a VP and can witness wat's happening and if there's any BIG difference with or without such a VP when watching at SD sources, mostly DVD and Satellite?

If I were you I'd consider the Onkyo/Integra receiver/processors. Their top-end models have ReonHQV processing built in. You'd give up some of the flexibility/adjustability a dedicated VP might provide, but you'd still be getting top notch vp performance and advanced audio processing to boot. You could get the top Onkyo receiver for less than what either the VP50 or the Crystallio would cost.

I'd assume they are PAL compatible but you should make sure.
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post #10785 of 17517
12/30/07 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blutarsky View Post

I own a 508XD (Elite in the states, should be 1150).
I need a good DVD player, audio amplifier and speakers.

But before buying that stuff I can't stop asking myself if a good video processore would be STRONLGY reccomended, or if it could be an enthusiast option to bring the video chain from a score 9 up to 10.

You see, everyone states 8Gs have an excellent electronics, and to be honest I'm very happy about it's PQ. Nevertheless I wonder how much SD signals could benefit from a DVDO 50 or a crystalio II VP.

Some people state VPs are not-so-needed on those TV sets. Do yuo agree? Does some 8G owner (HD ready) own such a VP and can witness wat's happening and if there's any BIG difference with or without such a VP when watching at SD sources, mostly DVD and Satellite?

in my experience...

i was on the pre-order list for the new lumagen processor... i am happy enough with the video processing on my set (150fd) that i cancelled my pre-order...

is it "probable" that "improvements" could be made with the external processor? sure. but i'm not sure how significant those improvements might be when compared to the price tag of the vp.

ymmv. it should be noted that i primarily watch hd sources.
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post #10786 of 17517
12/30/07 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat View Post

Ahh, the jaggies were likely an artifact from the ps3 deinterlacer. I don't know what exactly it uses, but I'd bet it's not as good as what is in the 4280/5080. Either way, I'd probably use 1080i (or 1080p24 if your version of ps3 allows it) and that way basically the ps3 is providing as close to native from the disc as possible and then you allow the Kuro processing to take it from there.

I totally forgot about the 24hz option but to be honest im not even sure what its suppose to, I went ahead and tried 1080p24 (I made sure 24hz was enabled in PS3's system settings) and it does indeed look nicer, Thanks
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post #10787 of 17517
12/30/07 at 5:34pm
Thanks to everyone's help so far. Can anybody recommend what to clean the screen with?
The Elite came with a piece of cloth...but, wonder what would work best?

Thanks again
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post #10788 of 17517
12/30/07 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher8 View Post

Thanks to everyone's help so far. Can anybody recommend what to clean the screen with?
The Elite came with a piece of cloth...but, wonder what would work best?

Thanks again

If you lose the included cloth, perhaps something like this?

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Micro-Fi...dp/B0007M6GI6/
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post #10789 of 17517
12/30/07 at 6:40pm
On page 61 of the owners manual it states that 24 hz support is not available at 1024p. Well to be honest, that confuses the heck out of me. What does that mean?
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post #10790 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raznaran View Post

On page 61 of the owners manual it states that 24 hz support is not available at 1024p. Well to be honest, that confuses the heck out of me. What does that mean?

The display can only do 3:3 pull-down on interlaced signals (480i or 1080i). Of course, there is no need for any pull down when the input signal is 1080p/24fps.
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post #10791 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:03pm
In reading through the 150FD owner's manual it appears that most of the A/V selections' (STANDARD, OPTIMUM, GAME, etc.) settings are shared across the 9 inputs (HDMI 4-7, INPUT 1-3, ANT A, and ANT B). The USER A/V selection sounds like it can be set up for each of the 9 inputs, i.e. a different set of USER settings for each input.

In other words, I could take D-Nice's day settings and copy them exactly into a USER setting for an HDMI 4 source, then tweak one or more of his parameters for a different USER setting on ANT A for example. Is that what you guys believe to be true? I currently have only 1 input to the panel, so can't try this myself.

Also curious if anyone has ordered the Service manuals from Pioneer. It appears there are 2 - the larger one covers the 6010FD and most of the 150FD, the smaller one must be a supplement to the first and cover the unique features of the 150FD. If so, are they worthwhile?

Thanks.
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post #10792 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:07pm
Miata, Thanks for your quick answer.

I apologize for my ignorance but that leads me to the next question. With film being 24fps and needing to be produced at 60hz or 72hz with either 3:2 or 3:3 pulldown how does it get handled with interlaced signal. What is going to give you a superior picture when using HD DVD? The Toshiba A35 will output 24/1080p? What does that mean ?

Again, I apologize for my ignorance. I thought I was following things along pretty well but got myself confused?
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post #10793 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:09pm
Okay, this is the last time I will raise this issue since I'm sure everyone is sick of it. After reading recent posts that suggest that the Kuro buzzing is normal, I checked out the Panny threads that discuss the 50", 58" and 65" models from this year and last year. I must stress that I'm not a Panasonic fan. I looked closely at their 65" because that's the size I wanted.

Ultimately, I decided that the superior PQ of the Kuro won out over size.

However, you guys who suggest that the Kuros don't have anymore of a buzzing problem than any other plasma ... are dead wrong.

The 9UK (50" 58" and 65") owners thread HERE has 4,835 replies and 305,000+ views. There is very little discussion of buzzing. There is no poll about buzzing. No one says they took their display back because of the buzzing. Two people said that the buzzing was annoying. Compare that to the 22% who returned their Kuros or found the buzzing annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zan789 View Post

My 50" 9UK makes an audible buzzing sound (audible but quiet) from 10 feet away when powered on but it subsides within 20 or 30 minutes to whisper quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkalin View Post

I pulled the trigger on the 50" 9UK .... No dead/stuck pixels or any other issues, and I wasn't checking for buzzing, but I didn't hear anything even with no sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denyart View Post

The charging of the plasma cells causes a buzzing. It will get worse as the pressure differential across the glass is increased (higher altitude). It is somewhere between faint to obvious. I think everyone has it, but that doesn't mean they should "hear" it. I have a 50" 9UK, and I can only hear mine if I get within 1 foot of the vents on the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin6969 View Post

The only time I've ever heard a noise if I'm behind the 9UK with my ear RIGHT UP to it....i can faintly here something. Since i live in the 'great plains', it's low elevation here.
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post #10794 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:09pm
Finally. the 65" (TH-65PX600U) owners thread HERE ... which only discusses the 65" consumer model has 724 replies and 71,000 views. 65" is bigger than 50", 58" or 60", so there should be more discussion about buzzing, according to your theories.

But, these are the only 2 posts in that entire owners thread ... which started on 10/05/06 ... that even mention buzzing and they say that the 65" does not buzz!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandkel View Post

Any complaints about buzzing on this set? I bought a Pioneer 6070 and it buzzes on brighter scenes. I'm thinking of returning it and getting the Panny.

Regards,

Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdmai View Post

No buzzing at all, just a very slight fan noise.

Again, you guys who claim that the Kuros don't have anymore of a buzzing problem than any other plasmas are being either blissfully ignorant or intentionally deceptive.
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post #10795 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOBE View Post

Finally. the 65" (TH-65PX600U) owners thread HERE ... which only discusses the 65" consumer model has 724 replies and 71,000 views. 65" is bigger than 50", 58" or 60", so there should be more discussion about buzzing, according to your theories.

But, these are the only 2 posts in that entire owners thread ... which started on 10/05/06 ... that even mention buzzing[/b] and they say that the 65" does not buzz!





Again, you guys who claim that the Kuros don't have anymore of a buzzing problem than any other plasmas are being either blissfully ignorant or intentionally deceptive.

How many TH-65PX600U owners are on this board compared to 6010/150FD owners?

My TH-37PX60u buzzes just like my PRO-1130HD and PRO-1150FD.
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post #10796 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raznaran View Post

Miata, Thanks for your quick answer.

I apologize for my ignorance but that leads me to the next question. With film being 24fps and needing to be produced at 60hz or 72hz with either 3:2 or 3:3 pulldown how does it get handled with interlaced signal. What is going to give you a superior picture when using HD DVD? The Toshiba A35 will output 24/1080p? What does that mean ?

Again, I apologize for my ignorance. I thought I was following things along pretty well but got myself confused?

With 1080p/60fps 2 frames are copied 2 times for the first and 3 for the second over and over again, so there is a certain jerkiness. With 1080p/72fps all frames are copied 3 times. The TV just needs to detect when a 408i or 1080i signal is film based so that it can grab the appropriate fields/frames to display.

If I were using the A35 for both film and video based sources as well as DVD I would probably use 1080i and PureCinema Advanced mode, so that you don't have to change the A35 resolution mode for different source types. I currently only use my XA2 for film based HD DVDs, so I keep it in 1080p/24fs maximum resolution at all times.
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post #10797 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:23pm
Thanks Darren C Found an overpriced Monster cleaner:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...W/amazoncom045

Will probably have to do for now...any other recommendations?
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post #10798 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:23pm
has anyone used the game mode? what exactly is it suppose to do and does it work?
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post #10799 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher8 View Post

Thanks Darren C Found an overpriced Monster cleaner:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...W/amazoncom045

Will probably have to do for now...any other recommendations?

do a search on that stuff before you use it. not too long ago, a kuro owner learned the hard way about using plasma cleaning kits.
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post #10800 of 17517
12/30/07 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrasher8 View Post

Thanks Darren C Found an overpriced Monster cleaner:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...W/amazoncom045

Will probably have to do for now...any other recommendations?

Don't use anything but a slightly misted micro fiber towel with distilled water on your Pioneer. DO NOT USE MONSTER CLEANER ON THE SCREEN.
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