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The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 17538
OK.
My Apartment Super found some time and helped me lift the 5080 onto the stand.
I ran through a quick system set-up.
Set to:
A/V source : Movie
Contrast to 30
Pure Cinema: Advance
(I'll check the settings Thread for other suggestions)

I loaded up King Kong HD via HDMI and.....WOW.
The picture is insane. Black is Black. 3D depth. Everything you've read before I ditto.
I'm not a tech geek- so you're not going to get a lot of specs and measurements from me- sorry. What I will say is the picture is very cinematic. What I mean by that- My dad has a Panasonic and it looks very good for television shows- it's bright and sharp but-
for films it's too much like video. The Pioneer really looks like you're watching a film on a movie screen.
I tried to snap a few pictures, but my camera is not great and did not do the image justice. No stuck pixels that I can see (and hope I never do)
SD quality varies per channel. Mtv not so good. Cartoon Network excellent.
I'm currently running Discovery HD. (suggestions for Break-in is welcome)

(BTW- yes- I did buy from Invision- I love the fact they shipped so quick - I certaintly don't blame them for the driver giving me the bums rush- I'll watch the set closely tonight- I have full confidence if I find any problem- Invision will make it all good)
post #212 of 17538
Hullo. I've been checking out the forum for a while now, but haven't ever posted. I'm extremely excited about the new Pios, and the 5080 will most likely be my first HDTV purchase. I will most likely be ready to purchase one in a month or so. My question is this: Do any of you expect it to be hard to find the new Pios in stock once people realize these are being sold for a good deal online? I see that Plasma Concepts has already sold out of the 5080, and these have been getting so much hype lately. I just don't want to be waiting for too long once I pull the trigger. Also, congrats on all who are enjoying these plasmas! They sound glorious!
post #213 of 17538
Hey there. Does the 5080 include a cable card slot? Does anyone know which 8g Pio does?
Thanks in advance. -ash
post #214 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeromotive1 View Post

Hey there. Does the 5080 include a cable card slot? Does anyone know which 8g Pio does?
Thanks in advance. -ash

According to the spec posted here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...f#post10685349

"Fully integrated ATSC and Dual NTSC Tuners and built-in
CableCARD'" Slot"
post #215 of 17538
This is my first post on AVSForum, and am impressed with with the information that I have gained (albeit confusing at times). I probably would buy a plasma..probably would buy the new Pioneer 5080..will not be a gamer...have digital Comcast. What needs to be bought other then the set...any upgraded cabling?...I have not read much on folks buying extended warranties..do you guys buy extended warranties? TIA, Steve
post #216 of 17538
I am exited to see more and more people getting them, stay tuned pretty soon we will have all the info we need as more are getting delivered daily
post #217 of 17538
Roman, take a trade in on my 5070? LOL

The 5080 looks great so far. I'll have to consider a 60" at a later date.
post #218 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by bak_phy View Post

CRTs are the golden standard!!! Comparing a to a CRT is a great honor. The only real problems that CRTs had were size and often geometry.

In all honesty, they had many more problems than that. Convergence, focus, color purity among others.
post #219 of 17538
I'm not an owner (yet, at least ), but since this comes up a lot, I thought I'd post some initial observations regarding a couple of the most discussed panels on the forum, the Pioneer 5080 and Panasonic 50PZ750. I finally got myself over to Abt in north suburban Chicago this afternoon to see them both for myself.

First off, they are both very fine TV's. I could be very happy with either. However, for black freaks, the 5080 is pretty much as it's hyped to be, the hands down winner. Both had impressive overall PQ, and either held its own with anything else on the floor, including Fujitsu and the 1140 Elite, which was my previous favorite. (Possible exception, the B&Os, but they're in a whole different price league.)

I'm not a black fanatic and I don't worship at the altar of CRT's, but I was very impressed with the 5080 overall. The only thing I don't like about my three year old Panasonic (aside from wanting a bigger set) is it's black crush. I am not at all troubled by any grayness except when I watch a letter-boxed movie. So blackness is important to me only in how it affects the overall PQ, especially color saturation. And the 5080 seemed to deliver there.

Both sets seemed to still have more black crush than I would like (black detail on the B&O was astonishing, but it probably had been calibrated). No doubt both the Pioneer and Panasonic would improve in this regard with proper calibration too. The salesman dug up the remote and let me change the settings on the Pioneer. I tried various settings including Optimum (which dims the picture as the ambient light drops, and is similar to the mode I currently use on my Panasonic), but I did not fool with the individual adjustments within. Out of torch mode, the 5080 had a great picture, nice color balance with very good skin tones, and, if the blacks on letter-boxed material didn't vanish into the frame, they came close and might even do so in a darkened home setting.

The lighting in the store was not bright, but was not subdued either. Much like my living room on a cloudy day, I'd say. They were using an ordinary HD feed, probably DirecTV, so conditions were not unlike those that might be typically encountered at home. The two sets were not side by side, but I could see them both at once.

As expected, the 750's 1080p didn't impress me as much as it's overall PQ, which, other than the blacks, matched the 5080 as far as I took the comparison (I didn't try different settings on the 750). It was right next to an Elite 1140, and I gave the 750 a slight PQ edge, much to my surprise. I suspect either the 750 or the 5080 would be breathtaking with high quality program material.

If I already owned a 750, I wouldn't be upset by the comparison. It came off as a very competitive offering, at least for those not fixated on black. However, if I had purchased a set today, it would have been the 5080. It is almost as good as everyone here says it is!
post #220 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Convergence, focus...snip

Are you referring to CRT RPTVs?

Cuz I never heard about Convergence and Focus problems on Direct View CRTs...

I did hear about those problems on CRT RPTVs, tho.
post #221 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Rich blacks. Although while not totally blend into the background dim on an all black screen, on 90 percent of what I watched the black bars totally blended into the bezel in the pitch dark. Amazing.

Johnny, at its 'worst', how much of a glow did you see and was this in the dark?
post #222 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by fico99 View Post

Fanerman, if I have understood correctly from one of the last posts of D-Nice, the Pio 8G 768p models will always do 2% overscan when using the HDMI input.

The PC input will do 1:1 pixel mapping, but although it accepts 60 Hz, I am not 100% sure if this input is suitable for moving pictures

You will need a Pio 8G 1080p to do 1:1 pixelmapping over HDMI.

I'm okay with using VGA to get 1:1 pixel mapping if the quality is as good as through HDMI. I'd like to confirm that.

What is the refresh rate on the monitor (do plasmas have refresh rates, I'm not really sure)? Is it 120Hz over HDMI, as hinted in the first post? If so, then is it limited to 60 Hz over VGA?

And has anybody noticed any image retention?
post #223 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojtek View Post

Are you referring to CRT RPTVs?

Cuz I never heard about Convergence and Focus problems on Direct View CRTs...

I did hear about those problems on CRT RPTVs, tho.

Oh yeah, most definitely CRTs directviews have these problems. I've got convergence issues on my 34" Panasonic CRT HDTV. I've had them with any CRT of decent size. Smaller CRTs are better able to hide these issues, but they're surely not limited to RPTVs.
post #224 of 17538
Macfan424, you did see the panasonic 750u, not the 700u? Also, could you compare brightness levels on the two tvs? Did the pz750u look dim compared to the pioneer?

Thanks for the report!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

I'm not an owner (yet, at least ), but since this comes up a lot, I thought I'd post some initial observations regarding a couple of the most discussed panels on the forum, the Pioneer 5080 and Panasonic 50PZ750. I finally got myself over to Abt in north suburban Chicago this afternoon to see them both for myself.

First off, they are both very fine TV's. I could be very happy with either. However, for black freaks, the 5080 is pretty much as it's hyped to be, the hands down winner. Both had impressive overall PQ, and either held its own with anything else on the floor, including Fujitsu and the 1140 Elite, which was my previous favorite. (Possible exception, the B&Os, but they're in a whole different price league.)

I'm not a black fanatic and I don't worship at the altar of CRT's, but I was very impressed with the 5080 overall. The only thing I don't like about my three year old Panasonic (aside from wanting a bigger set) is it's black crush. I am not at all troubled by any grayness except when I watch a letter-boxed movie. So blackness is important to me only in how it affects the overall PQ, especially color saturation. And the 5080 seemed to deliver there.

Both sets seemed to still have more black crush than I would like (black detail on the B&O was astonishing, but it probably had been calibrated). No doubt both the Pioneer and Panasonic would improve in this regard with proper calibration too. The salesman dug up the remote and let me change the settings on the Pioneer. I tried various settings including Optimum (which dims the picture as the ambient light drops, and is similar to the mode I currently use on my Panasonic), but I did not fool with the individual adjustments within. Out of torch mode, the 5080 had a great picture, nice color balance with very good skin tones, and, if the blacks on letter-boxed material didn't vanish into the frame, they came close and might even do so in a darkened home setting.

The lighting in the store was not bright, but was not subdued either. Much like my living room on a cloudy day, I'd say. They were using an ordinary HD feed, probably DirecTV, so conditions were not unlike those that might be typically encountered at home. The two sets were not side by side, but I could see them both at once.

As expected, the 750's 1080p didn't impress me as much as it's overall PQ, which, other than the blacks, matched the 5080 as far as I took the comparison (I didn't try different settings on the 750). It was right next to an Elite 1140, and I gave the 750 a slight PQ edge, much to my surprise. I suspect either the 750 or the 5080 would be breathtaking with high quality program material.

If I already owned a 750, I wouldn't be upset by the comparison. It came off as a very competitive offering, at least for those not fixated on black. However, if I had purchased a set today, it would have been the 5080. It is almost as good as everyone here says it is!
post #225 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Johnny, at its 'worst', how much of a glow did you see and was this in the dark?

Yes, this was complete darkness, no light what-so-ever. At worst? It's kind of hard to say, but I would think that the 5080s minimum luminence level is about as high as a hi-quality CRT which gun is not idling. What I mean by that is anything besides a 'no signal'. Say if there's a channel number like a small "7" on the corner of a CRT which forces the gun to be 'on' but doesn't have enough brightness to hide the black. That's the kind of black you should expect from the 5080 when it's idling with nothing on it. Like I said, much better than anything else on the market.

In the complete darkness when both are idling, a hi-quality CRT should be darker. But as said before, it's not a big deal at all. If you had a CRT side by side with this thing showing an actual movie, I would not be surprised if the Pioneer actually looks like it has deeper blacks 95 percent of the time. So for those hoping for absolutely nothing on 0IRE... they might be disappointed. I am not because movie scenes from "Walk the Line" never looked so good, and I've watched that a couple of times on my 5070.

Finally... not ONCE did I complain about contrast or black in any given scene. I was nothing but hyped on these plasmas and they look to deliver barring some weird defect. To think the 1080p 50 might be a tad bit better at minimum luminence.

D-nice if you could explain alot of those picture controls, it would be sweet. I was so overwhelmed. My 5070 was a lot less er... complex.
post #226 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Yes, this was complete darkness, no light what-so-ever. At worst? It's kind of hard to say, but I would think that the 5080s minimum luminence level is about as high as a hi-quality CRT which gun is not idling. What I mean by that is anything besides a 'no signal'. Say if there's a channel number like a small "7" on the corner of a CRT which forces the gun to be 'on' but doesn't have enough brightness to hide the black. That's the kind of black you should expect from the 5080 when it's idling with nothing on it. Like I said, much better than anything else on the market.

In the complete darkness when both are idling, a hi-quality CRT should be darker. But as said before, it's not a big deal at all. If you had a CRT side by side with this thing showing an actual movie, I would not be surprised if the Pioneer actually looks like it has deeper blacks 95 percent of the time. So for those hoping for absolutely nothing on 0IRE... they might be disappointed. I am not because movie scenes from "Walk the Line" never looked so good, and I've watched that a couple of times on my 5070.

Finally... not ONCE did I complain about contrast or black in any given scene. I was nothing but hyped on these plasmas and they look to deliver barring some weird defect. To think the 1080p 50 might be a tad bit better at minimum luminence.

D-nice if you could explain alot of those picture controls, it would be sweet. I was so overwhelmed. My 5070 was a lot less er... complex.

Picture Controls......

Are you speaking about the Picture Details settings? if so all except the Enhanced Mode were available on the 6/7th Pioneer Elites.

DRE: makes the details (especially in dark colors) pop out

Black Level: Darkens blacks on static scoreboards, tickers, etc. i have yet to see it darken blacks on anything else.

Gamma: Changes the gamma curve. 2 is standard (2.2), however, if the 8G Pure line is anything like the 7th gen gamma 3 looks best on all A/V selections except for Pure (wich is not present on the Pure line anyway). Gamma 3 pulls more black details out of the picture. if you select gamma 3, you will have to reduce the brightness by 2 clicks. otherwise you will see dither noise.

ACL: Works in tandem with DRE and Gamma. Turn it on and the overall blacks will be slightly deeper.

All other settings are self explanatory.

BTW, nice write-up JB. It's funny these rave reviews are only for the 16,000:1 768p plasmas. Can you imagine the 20,000:1 1080p models in late August?
post #227 of 17538
has anyone seen the 5080 in the tri state area. (ny, nj, ct). any b&m locations would be most appreciated!
post #228 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Oh yeah, most definitely CRTs directviews have these problems. I've got convergence issues on my 34" Panasonic CRT HDTV. I've had them with any CRT of decent size. Smaller CRTs are better able to hide these issues, but they're surely not limited to RPTVs.

Anyhow, the point is almost moot.

The new Pios, with their CRT-like black levels seem take plasma to a whole new level.

Frankly, I am surprised that anybody who is in the market for a new plasma would consider anything other than new Pios (unless price is an issue).

I am already plotting strategies on how to break the news to my wife that we are ditching the commercial Panny 8 gen for a 1080p Pio by year end.

So far I am not coming up with anything convincing...

I'm gonna be in more trouble than the guy in the Verizon FIOS radio commercial (those in the NYC area who listen to sports radio will know what I'm talking about).
post #229 of 17538
wojtek

If its mounted to the wall, loosen a few screws.
post #230 of 17538
^ LOL

Wife: "What happened?"
Wojtek: "Ummm....I don't know. Let's just get the new Pio"
post #231 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes View Post

OK.
My Apartment Super found some time and helped me lift the 5080 onto the stand.
I ran through a quick system set-up.
Set to:
A/V source : Movie
Contrast to 30
Pure Cinema: Advance
(I'll check the settings Thread for other suggestions)

I loaded up King Kong HD via HDMI and.....WOW.
The picture is insane. Black is Black. 3D depth. Everything you've read before I ditto.
I'm not a tech geek- so you're not going to get a lot of specs and measurements from me- sorry. What I will say is the picture is very cinematic. What I mean by that- My dad has a Panasonic and it looks very good for television shows- it's bright and sharp but-
for films it's too much like video. The Pioneer really looks like you're watching a film on a movie screen.
I tried to snap a few pictures, but my camera is not great and did not do the image justice. No stuck pixels that I can see (and hope I never do)
SD quality varies per channel. Mtv not so good. Cartoon Network excellent.
I'm currently running Discovery HD. (suggestions for Break-in is welcome)

(BTW- yes- I did buy from Invision- I love the fact they shipped so quick - I certaintly don't blame them for the driver giving me the bums rush- I'll watch the set closely tonight- I have full confidence if I find any problem- Invision will make it all good)

Greatest owner post yet - what very few there are. Keep us posted.....Thank you!
post #232 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanInvision View Post

I am exited to see more and more people getting them, stay tuned pretty soon we will have all the info we need as more are getting delivered daily

like a link to PIO owners manual/spec sheet? Only current mfg I know of, that sells a set and the public does not have access to unless you buy it?!
post #233 of 17538
Bokes...great first impressions! Keep us updated!

Question: Does Invision ship anywhere in the U.S.? I'm planning to buy the 5080 soon.
post #234 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Yes, this was complete darkness, no light what-so-ever. At worst? It's kind of hard to say, but I would think that the 5080s minimum luminence level is about as high as a hi-quality CRT which gun is not idling. What I mean by that is anything besides a 'no signal'. Say if there's a channel number like a small "7" on the corner of a CRT which forces the gun to be 'on' but doesn't have enough brightness to hide the black. That's the kind of black you should expect from the 5080 when it's idling with nothing on it. Like I said, much better than anything else on the market.

In the complete darkness when both are idling, a hi-quality CRT should be darker. But as said before, it's not a big deal at all. If you had a CRT side by side with this thing showing an actual movie, I would not be surprised if the Pioneer actually looks like it has deeper blacks 95 percent of the time. So for those hoping for absolutely nothing on 0IRE... they might be disappointed. I am not because movie scenes from "Walk the Line" never looked so good, and I've watched that a couple of times on my 5070.

Thanks Johnny, sounds like a winner and seems consistent with everything we've heard!
post #235 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by wojtek View Post

I am already plotting strategies on how to break the news to my wife that we are ditching the commercial Panny 8 gen for a 1080p Pio by year end.

So far I am not coming up with anything convincing...

Sometimes these things get stolen.
post #236 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoidr View Post

like a link to PIO owners manual/spec sheet? Only current mfg I know of, that sells a set and the public does not have access to unless you buy it?!

If you want a spec sheet email me and I believe its in this thread somewhere as well. Also I am waiting for a manual from my contact.
post #237 of 17538
post #238 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Picture Controls......

Are you speaking about the Picture Details settings? if so all except the Enhanced Mode were available on the 6/7th Pioneer Elites.

DRE: makes the details (especially in dark colors) pop out

Black Level: Darkens blacks on static scoreboards, tickers, etc. i have yet to see it darken blacks on anything else.

Gamma: Changes the gamma curve. 2 is standard (2.2), however, if the 8G Pure line is anything like the 7th gen gamma 3 looks best on all A/V selections except for Pure (wich is not present on the Pure line anyway). Gamma 3 pulls more black details out of the picture. if you select gamma 3, you will have to reduce the brightness by 2 clicks. otherwise you will see dither noise.

ACL: Works in tandem with DRE and Gamma. Turn it on and the overall blacks will be slightly deeper.

All other settings are self explanatory.

BTW, nice write-up JB. It's funny these rave reviews are only for the 16,000:1 768p plasmas. Can you imagine the 20,000:1 1080p models in late August?

That all sounds good. Wonder which ones would be integral for a closest to ISF picture. Gamma of course is helpful. Huh, I was wondering what ACL was... geesh talk about not being prepared. I was like "let's tinker with brightness/color, and maybe turn of some noise reduction!"

I walked in even more clueless after seeing some of the picture 'enhancers'. Some of them sound pretty good though. Can't wait to be able to use it.
post #239 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Yes, this was complete darkness, no light what-so-ever. At worst? It's kind of hard to say, but I would think that the 5080s minimum luminence level is about as high as a hi-quality CRT which gun is not idling. What I mean by that is anything besides a 'no signal'. Say if there's a channel number like a small "7" on the corner of a CRT which forces the gun to be 'on' but doesn't have enough brightness to hide the black. That's the kind of black you should expect from the 5080 when it's idling with nothing on it. Like I said, much better than anything else on the market.

In the complete darkness when both are idling, a hi-quality CRT should be darker. But as said before, it's not a big deal at all. If you had a CRT side by side with this thing showing an actual movie, I would not be surprised if the Pioneer actually looks like it has deeper blacks 95 percent of the time. So for those hoping for absolutely nothing on 0IRE... they might be disappointed. I am not because movie scenes from "Walk the Line" never looked so good, and I've watched that a couple of times on my 5070.

Finally... not ONCE did I complain about contrast or black in any given scene. I was nothing but hyped on these plasmas and they look to deliver barring some weird defect. To think the 1080p 50 might be a tad bit better at minimum luminence.

D-nice if you could explain alot of those picture controls, it would be sweet. I was so overwhelmed. My 5070 was a lot less er... complex.

Thanks for the detailed impressions (I read your first post on this too). I found your impressions both realistic and seem very reliable. I really didn't think when I heard some say you can't tell if the TV is on was really true as I heard that about the SXRD. And to be truthful, I really didn't expect that. I can't wait for the 60" models to come out. If I can get an online deal with a nice discount I'll be all over it . My Panny is looking duller just thinking about the new Pioneers.

And I also wonder if the 1080p models may have just a tad better black levels and be just a tad brighter.
post #240 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Picture Controls......

Are you speaking about the Picture Details settings? if so all except the Enhanced Mode were available on the 6/7th Pioneer Elites.

DRE: makes the details (especially in dark colors) pop out

Black Level: Darkens blacks on static scoreboards, tickers, etc. i have yet to see it darken blacks on anything else.

Gamma: Changes the gamma curve. 2 is standard (2.2), however, if the 8G Pure line is anything like the 7th gen gamma 3 looks best on all A/V selections except for Pure (wich is not present on the Pure line anyway). Gamma 3 pulls more black details out of the picture. if you select gamma 3, you will have to reduce the brightness by 2 clicks. otherwise you will see dither noise.

ACL: Works in tandem with DRE and Gamma. Turn it on and the overall blacks will be slightly deeper.

All other settings are self explanatory.

BTW, nice write-up JB. It's funny these rave reviews are only for the 16,000:1 768p plasmas. Can you imagine the 20,000:1 1080p models in late August?

Having said that then I would assume that if someone wants to bring out details in dark scenes a little more then they could crank up the gamma a little, minimize black level, and turn off the ACL correct? I'm sure this will lighten up the picture somewhat but show the most detail if that is what someone is after.
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