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The Official Pioneer 8G KURO Owner's Discussions Thread - Page 268

post #8011 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I agree on the POS STB comment. However, how many cable cards you know that can be used in the Kuros and play nice with SDV?

None, which is the main reason that made me reluctant to buy another PDP until interactive devices are available.

I am using a CableCARD with my PRO-150FD and the HD picture it renders is really amazing. As cable providers migrate more of their programming to SDV there will come a point where I will have to front end this display with another DCR device. Hopefully some kind of high-end TiVo like DVR that provides native support for M-Card services will become available during 2008-2009.
post #8012 of 17538
I had a question regarding CableCard, does 5080 support Open Cable two way CableCard which should be capable of SDV,TWC is going to start offering that soon.
post #8013 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayla View Post

...
I "refuse" to believe that the Kuro picture gets worse by adding a 5000$, and maybe the best, external scaler there is, into the loop (I know, I know, of course I have to defend my purchase )

I will post my impressions next week when everything is calibrated and set up.

Taking these two paragraphs together suggests what your ("future") impressions will be.
post #8014 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayla View Post

I would like to add that I, as I mentioned earlier, am using my Kuro right now with my VP50, and the picture is in no way terrible.

It's actually Very good. And I haven't calibrated anything, I'm on break-in settings.

What I see is some more noise when watching SDTV (576i), than with my Panasonic 42".

But when calibrating, reducing sharpness, and adding the NR features of the RadianceXD I'm sure it will be much better, maybe even better than what I had before.

I "refuse" to believe that the Kuro picture gets worse by adding a 5000$, and maybe the best, external scaler there is, into the loop (I know, I know, of course I have to defend my purchase )

I will post my impressions next week when everything is calibrated and set up.

We are looking forward to your thoughts! Thanks. Ned.
post #8015 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaShef View Post

I had a question regarding CableCard, does 5080 support Open Cable two way CableCard which should be capable of SDV,TWC is going to start offering that soon.

No
post #8016 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ngerstman View Post

I have both a 1540 and a 150. I'm wondering if what you are describing is masquito noise. I get that on both plasmas on some programming. You can see it somtimes on light backgrounds in darker scenes. I believe that is normal video noise. I don't see that kind of stuff on most hi-def prime time broadcasts such as ER or Boston Legal or live sports such as football. They look absolutely great. If all programming has the video noise you describe, I would get a new panel. Thanks. Ned.

I don't think its the noise you describe. I've seen that too on some sources and not there on good sources like Discovery HD. What I see it looks like is the pixels are actually shimmering or moving. That is why I thought it was the oribter but I turned that off and it still does it. Fingers crossed it goes away in another 100 hours.
post #8017 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

Hopefully some kind of high-end TiVo like DVR that provides native support for M-Card services will become available during 2008-2009.

There already is, it's called the Tivo HD. It does support M-cards already.
post #8018 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

So what is the recommendation for CATV subscribers who front end their $$$$ Kuro PDPs with some POS STB?

Why not try a CableCARD instead?

If you can use it, D* is now a decent alternative. The Mpeg4 channels are supposedly of pretty good quality now. Of course you'll still be stuck with the existing, compressed Mpeg2s, but it might be better than what you've got now.
post #8019 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

There already is, it's called the Tivo HD. It does support M-cards already.

I am under the impression that M-Cards are backward compatible with the TiVo Series 3 & TiVo HD, however both are one way devices that do not support PPV, on-Demand or SDV interactive CATV services.
post #8020 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

I am under the impression that M-Cards are backward compatible with the TiVo Series 3 & TiVo HD, however both are one way devices that do not support PPV, on-Demand or SDV interactive CATV services.

I thought only the TiVo HD supported M-Cards. The Series 3 does, also?
post #8021 of 17538
D-Nice (or someone else)

Do you have an idea as to why I can't choose 1080p 24/25/50Hz as output from my VP50 to my 1080p Kuro?

The options are grayed out.

I can only choose the 1080p 60Hz option.

Is there a menu setting I need to change on the Kuro?

I'm running HDMI, Video mode, Dot by Dot.

Thanks
Martin
post #8022 of 17538
Did you go through Canadian Sound for the ISF calibration?

Thanks,
Basheer

Quote:
Originally Posted by BasementBob View Post

Nambit :


Or the blame
Seriously I assume you'll be happy. For me it was well worth the money, and he was MUCH better at it (both in time, and final results) than I ever would have been no matter how many hours I spent tinkering with it.
What surprised me was when he was done the calibration that I could see things more clearly. He didn't just do the colours, he set several video settings on my DVD players as well as the plasma.
With my plasma he did an ISFccc calibration.

Did you look at UMR's calibration post?
He lowered the contrast by about 21%.
i.e. IRE 100's footlamberts from 48.48 down to 39.92, yet the contrast ratio went up from 2112 to 2485.
post #8023 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

I am under the impression that M-Cards are backward compatible with the TiVo Series 3 & TiVo HD, however both are one way devices that do not support PPV, on-Demand or SDV interactive CATV services.

The Tivo S3 requires a software upgrade to support M-card. There were many conflicting stories whether this was even possible, but the last I heard was that it was. The Tivo HD comes already capable for M-card.

The M-card supports the ability to use just 1 card where 2 were required. So for a Tivo HD, you can use 2 of the regular CCs or 1 M-card if your provider can get them.
post #8024 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

...thanks guys for the comments above, but I guess I'm also looking for views from those that -haven't- had a perfect experience with this upgrade, or at least have had some challenges to overcome. What can I say, I'm a bit suspicious that there's little to be found regarding these sets that's negative (save price, natch...)

The only 'negative' issue I've ever seen related to the PRO-150 is that some panels seem to have a relatively loud buzzing sound that is loud enough to at times disturb the viewing experience.

Other than that...it does indeed seem that they'rrrre GREAT!
post #8025 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basheer View Post

Does that allow the Home Media Gallery to play any file that Windows MP 11 will play with the K-Lite Mega Codec Pack?

Thanks,
Basheer

Nope, but I wish. I believe you'd have to use TVERSITY instead of WMP 11.
Even then, the conversion process is kinda slow and not worth it.

I actually hooked up a USB drive to my TV to check out the quality of the gallery
and found I prefer hooking up my laptop for media. It's faster, looks better,
far more flexible, and supports everything (obviously).
post #8026 of 17538
Since the ASIC processor is identical to the 5080 (with the exception of supporting dot-by-dot)...processing/upscaling of SD should not be any better.

In fact, SD should look slightly worse on the 5010 as you're taking a 480i signal and trying to fill 1080 lines with it.

Versus taking 480i and trying to only fill 768 lines with it.

YMMV. Good luck with your decision, they're both great panels.

Basheer

Quote:
Originally Posted by BYA View Post

I have a 5080 screen for the last month or so, and I must say that I'm really happy with it. My dealer gave me an option, which
expires this weekend, to upgrade it for less than $1000. As my viewing distance is around 10 feet, I recognize that I will not enjoy a real full HD image even with the 5010 set. I'm still thinking of upgrading the screen, as I'm reading here and there that the 5010 does SD upscaling better than the 5080. Does anyone know if this is true? Is it really possible? around 80% of my TV time I watch SD stuff, so this is really crucial for me.
Besides, do you know whether there is another reason, apart of the SD, for which I should consider an upgrade??

Many thanks in advance!
post #8027 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I agree on the POS STB comment. However, how many cable cards you know that can be used in the Kuros and play nice with SDV?

Why not split the signal and use both a cable card and STB?
post #8028 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Bob View Post

I just received the latest issue of Perfect Vision ... Winter 2008 ... They said this ...

"Without question, the Pioneer Elite PRO-1150HD is the best plasma TV I've ever seen."

"... the Pioneer's new Kuro plasmas are sure to knock your socks off."

They have not reviewed the Pro-150FD or Pro-110FD as yet.

Interestingly it indicates that the PRO-1150HD has 1:1 mode....is that the same as dot-by-dot....I thought only the 1080p models supported this.

Basheer
post #8029 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Basheer View Post

Since the ASIC processor is identical to the 5080 (with the exception of supporting dot-by-dot)...processing/upscaling of SD should not be any better.

In fact, SD should look slightly worse on the 5010 as you're taking a 480i signal and trying to fill 1080 lines with it.

Versus taking 480i and trying to only fill 768 lines with it.

YMMV. Good luck with your decision, they're both great panels.

Basheer

From the PDP-5010FD Product Brochure ...

New ASIC video processing and scaling for the ultimate in Standard Definition and High Definition video performance

The literature gives the impression that the video processing has been upgraded ... some of the comments have indicated that the SD is no better ...

so what gives here ...

Is there a new ASIC or isn't there ?

Is there new processing or isn't there ?

Could we get some clarification from Pioneer here?
post #8030 of 17538
As I understand it....

All of the KURO's have the new ASIC processor.

The ELITEs have some additional features enabled on the processor.

My point was that they both have identical/almost identical processors...but due to the fact that you're upscaling to a much higher resolution...SD should naturally look worse on the 5010 than it would on the 5080.

Irrespective of the processor since they both have the same SD processing capabilities.

Basheer


Quote:
Originally Posted by highheater View Post

From the PDP-5010FD Product Brochure ...

New ASIC video processing and scaling for the ultimate in Standard Definition and High Definition video performance

The literature gives the impression that the video processing has been upgraded ... some of the comments have indicated that the SD is no better ...

so what gives here ...

Is there a new ASIC or isn't there ?

Is there new processing or isn't there ?

Could we get some clarification from Pioneer here?
post #8031 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayla View Post

I would like to add that I, as I mentioned earlier, am using my Kuro right now with my VP50, and the picture is in no way terrible.

It's actually Very good. And I haven't calibrated anything, I'm on break-in settings.

What I see is some more noise when watching SDTV (576i), than with my Panasonic 42".

But when calibrating, reducing sharpness, and adding the NR features of the RadianceXD I'm sure it will be much better, maybe even better than what I had before.

I "refuse" to believe that the Kuro picture gets worse by adding a 5000$, and maybe the best, external scaler there is, into the loop (I know, I know, of course I have to defend my purchase )

I will post my impressions next week when everything is calibrated and set up.

Based on the difference in size alone from 42" to 60", you obviously will still see more 'noise' on the Kuro versus your Panny plasma when feeding it SDTV. I am surprised that you actually need an external processor at all, because if Danish TV at 576i is as 'clean' as the British broadcasts, I'd say that the Kuro would do an incredible job of scaling/up-converting the OTA broadcasts in 576i.

I have to agree with D-Nice here; you will see little to no improvement and perhaps might even see an actual degradation in picture quality by processing the signal twice. Yes, SDTV 'might' be marginally better, BUT pristine 1080i/p sources feed directly into the Kuro would look better than being processed prior to the display. Also, you may increase the chances of A/V synch problems as well. Bottom line: the processing is so excellent in the Pio alone, your $5K would be far better spent elsewhere imho.

Bish
post #8032 of 17538
$5k for a scaler?

That's not much less than the cost of the panel itself. For that much stash, the thing better "scale" the picture up to 1080p, into holographic 3D, and then right out of the TV and into my living room.
post #8033 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The Tivo S3 requires a software upgrade to support M-card. There were many conflicting stories whether this was even possible, but the last I heard was that it was. The Tivo HD comes already capable for M-card.

The M-card supports the ability to use just 1 card where 2 were required. So for a Tivo HD, you can use 2 of the regular CCs or 1 M-card if your provider can get them.

TiVo is currently attempting to reverse engineer two-way digital cable services w/M-Card(s) for its Series 3 & HD models:

Information about CableCARDs and Switched Digital Technology
post #8034 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

I don't think its the noise you describe. I've seen that too on some sources and not there on good sources like Discovery HD. What I see it looks like is the pixels are actually shimmering or moving. That is why I thought it was the oribter but I turned that off and it still does it. Fingers crossed it goes away in another 100 hours.

Hi. I have the Pro 150 and I see the noise you are talking about. It is the only thing I am unhappy about with the TV. I am close to 200 hours and I am hoping it goes away. It is the tv and not the source because if you pause the program you can still see it. Even if you have a menu up you can see the noise in the video. I am going to be really unhappy if this noise does not go away. I have not really played with the picture adjustments yet so maybe it is my settings. But I am just using DNICE's breakin settings for the pure mode. I thought I saw a little less noise using the Standard mode. Just a slight bit less noise but it was still there. If I find a solution I will be sure to post it. I will not give up untill I try everything.
post #8035 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyrocks View Post

Hi. I have the Pro 150 and I see the noise you are talking about. It is the only thing I am unhappy about with the TV. I am close to 200 hours and I am hoping it goes away. It is the tv and not the source because if you pause the program you can still see it. Even if you have a menu up you can see the noise in the video. I am going to be really unhappy if this noise does not go away. I have not really played with the picture adjustments yet so maybe it is my settings. But I am just using DNICE's breakin settings for the pure mode. I thought I saw a little less noise using the Standard mode. Just a slight bit less noise but it was still there. If I find a solution I will be sure to post it. I will not give up untill I try everything.

maybe you should use some of the noise reduction settings.
post #8036 of 17538
I have the same noise on my 110FD. I see it quite clearly when watching ESPN-HD - the people look perfectly clear, but the background is literally "crawling"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post

maybe you should use some of the noise reduction settings.

Anyone have some recommendations as to which ones and at what level?

Also - why doesn't D-Nice's setting include them if they are necessary for a picture without the "crawling ants" background?
post #8037 of 17538
The crawling ants has to do with the source. Also some films produce noise for effect ie 300, check out the kuro pics thread.
post #8038 of 17538
Is this crawling something you can see at normal viewing distance or do you have to get up to the screen to see it? Thanks
post #8039 of 17538
Basheer:

Quote:
Did you go through Canadian Sound for the ISF calibration?

I asked Canadian Sound, but they were a little vague on what they could do, and ultimately couldn't recommend an ISF certified calibrator for plasmas.
Instead I went with Michael Chen (aka AVS user "Michael TLV", who's occasionally been called "Calibrator Extraordinare" at AVS)
My observations about my FHD1 calibration
post #8040 of 17538
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC7727 View Post

maybe you should use some of the noise reduction settings.

I have and it does not seem to help.
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