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Surround Processor Wars - Mine Is Better Than Yours -- For Me, That Is.

post #1 of 45
Thread Starter 
Every surround processor thread at this forum eventually gets closed by the Moderator, because too many of us yell and scream at each other in gobblygook
but the essence is "mine is better than yours", "yours sucks", "you're stupid to have that surround processor", "why don't you get a good surround processor like mine", "you're surround processor company is slow and will never upgrade to the latest standards like mine". Get it???

The problem with this line of reasoning is surround processors are like cars, like wines, etc. Somewhat different features, audio quality and price points. And each of us subjectively determines what works best for each of us.

For example, yes, I luv my Theta CB3 and Six Shooter robot multi-channel analog preamp. I built a special dedicated room with top acoustical dimensions, adjustable acoustic treatments (Michael Green Pressure Zone Controllers),
and this makes everything sound that much better. And it makes it so you can much more easily hear the differences between different speakers and components, and yes, even some tweaky stuff.

Someone else might have their gear in their multi-purpose family room, not near the acoustics of mine.

Just cause I "hear" that my Theta CB3 and SS are worthwhile, for the extra $$, my setup doesn't mean that its subjectively worthwhile in someone else's multi-purpose family room setup.

I pretty much have equal speakers all around, in a circle at 2, 4, 8 and 10 o'clock,
And I've adjusted my acoustic treatments so that I get a fantastic phantom center image from the front left and right speakers, and an outstanding ambient surround image from the rear left and right speakers. And I get outstanding side and diagonal imaging between speakers as well. I've placed my three Aerial subs along the front screen wall, where they are pretty flat. Theta's Six Shooter really adds to my enjoyment, as I listen to a lot of multi-channel high resolution music, and use my HD DVD player's multi-channel analog outputs for Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby True HD HD DVDs. I use just one sub output from the CB3-Six Shooter, as my three subs are chained. So the Six Shooter works fantastic for me. Still I use a lot my CB3's Extreme DACs for redbook CD, DirecTV and DVD.

I get my money's worth out of my Theta gear.

But someone else might not care about multi-channel high resolution music.
And even redbook CD might not be all that important. Movies and tv may be the priority. And the room may have some substantial room node problems and need for bass taming where built-in digital EQ like in the Lexicon MC-12 is really helpful.
My Theta CB3 and Six Shooter may well not fit that person's subjective needs at all. And the fact that this person can use his Lex HDMI for multi-channel audio really works for him.

On the other hand, with my setup, I'm not super concerned with multi-channel audio over HDMI. But I already have top notch multi-channel audio quality. And as a long time Theta owner, yes, I have a lot of patience, years of patience, knowing that when Theta comes out with their HDMI multi-channel audio, they'll do it right. Of course I'd luv to have it sooner than later but it doesn't make or break my luv for the product right now. That's something that the above Lex owner just doesn't understand.
post #2 of 45
Thread Starter 
I'd like to suggest that folks post in this thread in a positive vein. Don't discuss someone else's surround processor. Discuss your surround processor and why it fits the bill for you.
post #3 of 45
"I'd like to suggest that folks post in this thread in a positive vein. Don't discuss someone else's surround processor. Discuss your surround processor and why it fits the bill for you."

Would be nice if you did that yourself.....

Read your own comments....

"Someone else might have their gear in their multi-purpose family room, not near the acoustics of mine.

Just cause I "hear" that my Theta CB3 and SS are worthwhile, for the extra $$, my setup doesn't mean that its subjectively worthwhile in someone else's multi-purpose family room setup."

The translation is still "mine is better than yours", "yours sucks."

Accept the fact that others have very good rooms and systems too... and didn't pick Theta.

"But someone else might not care about multi-channel high resolution music.
And even redbook CD might not be all that important. Movies and tv may be the priority. And the room may have some substantial room node problems and need for bass taming where built-in digital EQ like in the Lexicon MC-12 is really helpful."

Again... same thing. Accept that some may care as much, if not more, about multi-channel music... and not pick Theta.

Or do you just like making posts with 'digs' in them for the non-luvers?

Shawn
post #4 of 45
Thread Starter 
Shawn, I wasn't saying anything in that post about you or your system. And I wasn't saying that my room and system is necessarily the best sounding of all the stuff out there.
I was merely making a comparison how in that situation, some other surround processor might subjectively be better for that person.

Perhaps you felt I was digging the MC-12 by mentioning it? I wasn't. I was simply pointing out how the bass EQ feature in some cases might be a more deciding factor.

Please do not take this thread personally. Its not directed at you.

Again, could folks please post in this thread in a positive vein. Lets avoid stuff like "mine is better than yours" and lets avoid personal attacks. PLEASE.

Lets talk about our own surround processor and system and why it works for us.
(And lets not criticize anyone else or their system or how it sounds.)
post #5 of 45
"Lets talk about our own surround processor and system and why it works for us.
(And lets not criticize anyone else or their system or how it sounds.)"

So do it. Make a post where you *only* talk about your own surround processor and system.

I'm not the one that posted that those with lousy rooms might choose xyz. Or those that don't care about multi-channel music might choose xyz with the various implications that entails. You did.

You only know why you made your choice, not why others made theirs.

Accept the fact that others have very good rooms and systems too... and didn't make the same choice as you.

Accept that some may care as much, if not more, about multi-channel music... and not make the same choice as you.

Shawn
post #6 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Accept the fact that others have very good rooms and systems too... and didn't make the same choice as you.

Accept that some may care as much, if not more, about multi-channel music... and not make the same choice as you.

Shawn

I never said I didn't accept that. Why are you always so argumentative?
post #7 of 45
Steve,

IMO Shawn's comments are not unwarranted, and if you can't see why then it's not surprising there are the issues you raqised.
post #8 of 45
I'm with Noah and Shawn on this one. Steve, this is the kind of thread I was referring to in my comments over on the Curt Palme thread. One moment you're complaining about the fights, and the next you're starting one in a brand new thread! I mean, my gosh, in post #1 you rag on Lexicon processors and their customers, and in post #2 you turn right around and tell people to focus on their own processor, not other people's. How hypocritical can you get?

You are not a victim here, Steve. Get over yourself.
post #9 of 45
IMO, Steve was trying to start a poitiv thread and posted examples of how different people's rooms and priorities could lead to different processor choices.

You would have to be sooo in love with your gear to let his comments get you so wriled up so quickly.

I gotta ask ya. Do you tuck your prepro under your pillow at night, or maybe sleep in the Audio room just so you can be close?

This group can't discuss prepro's in a logical fashion because of fanboism of several members. Its kinda funny, and kinda sad, don't ya think?
post #10 of 45
And while we are at it... GRANITE CABLES SUCK!!!!!
post #11 of 45
Sorry, an attempt at some levity.
post #12 of 45
Steve,

I have a Halcro, and it fits some of my needs but probably won't fit all of them until the release the HDMI Audio upgrade. I didn't buy a prepro with great DACs, to then pass it Analog signals from my HD-DVD (for example).

The Halcro does sound nice, and has two 7.1 inputs, so it will hold me over for now. It is great for movies, does well will CDs, and prety godd with High Res udio because the Analog pass through is pretty good.

But other propros will have HDMI Audio someday, so Halcro had better make thier upgrade reasonably priced or I will move to another unit.

For the most part I like the Halcro, but we see how the "end-game" works out.
post #13 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post


"Lets talk about our own surround processor and system and why it works for us.
(And lets not criticize anyone else or their system or how it sounds.)"

So do it. Make a post where you *only* talk about your own surround processor and system.

Shawn

Problem is when one talks about their own surround processor and system and why their choice of processor is better for them, some folks routinely interpet everything they can that its a put down of their choice in processor or their system - even when its not.
post #14 of 45
I urge the moderator to rename this forum as " Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) who recreate Jerry Springer Show" forum




Cheers,
Kishore
post #15 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post


I'm not the one that posted that those with lousy rooms might choose xyz. Or those that don't care about multi-channel music might choose xyz with the various implications that entails. You did.

Shawn

I was only giving an example of why my processor may sound better to me in my room yet would make no difference is some other room. Mebbe I should have referenced someone's home theater in a box system instead and you wouldn't have been offended. I wasn't talking about you or anyone else who posts here in this forum. But I guess my word ain't good enough - unless I sell my Theta gear and you approve of my replacement.
post #16 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

And while we are at it... GRANITE CABLES SUCK!!!!!

Hey, I don't make fun of the baby noted in your signature. I accept your humble apology.
post #17 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

Steve,

I have a Halcro, and it fits some of my needs but probably won't fit all of them until the release the HDMI Audio upgrade. I didn't buy a prepro with great DACs, to then pass it Analog signals from my HD-DVD (for example).

The Halcro does sound nice, and has two 7.1 inputs, so it will hold me over for now. It is great for movies, does well will CDs, and prety godd with High Res udio because the Analog pass through is pretty good.

But other propros will have HDMI Audio someday, so Halcro had better make thier upgrade reasonably priced or I will move to another unit.

For the most part I like the Halcro, but we see how the "end-game" works out.

Perfect. My point of starting this thread was to get comments like this.
post #18 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishore View Post

I urge the moderator to rename this forum as " Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) who recreate Jerry Springer Show" forum




Cheers,
Kishore

For the most part, this thread only tends to prove that most if not all of us show our biases in this forum whenever we post about surround processors, that "Mine is better than yours" is here to stay even though some of us (even me, on occasion) try to get away from that to have a productive discussion. Which some folks don't believe is possible for me.

I'm not sure whats worse - a thread about power cords or a thread about surround processors.
post #19 of 45
"Problem is when one talks about their own surround processor and system and why their choice of processor is better for them, some folks routinely interpet everything they can that its a put down of their choice in processor or their system - even when its not."

You can't talk just about your own choice without digs on others choices. Your first post in this thread shows this.

"I was only giving an example of why my processor may sound better to me in my room yet would make no difference is some other room."

That wasn't how you worded it above.

"and you wouldn't have been offended."

I wasn't offended at all. Just pointing out what you claimed you wanted to avoid in the thread you did in the very first post of the thread. You can't set the rules then just turn around and decide they don't apply to you.

"But I guess my word ain't good enough - unless I sell my Theta gear and you approve of my replacement."

I couldn't care less if you sell your Theta or not. I am quite sure that will never happen. It obviously works for you.

"For the most part, this thread only tends to prove that most if not all of us show our biases in this forum whenever we post about surround processors, that "Mine is better than yours" is here to stay even though some of us (even me, on occasion) try to get away from that to have a productive discussion. Which some folks don't believe is possible for me."

The very first post in this thread illustrates this. The only person that has posted a 'mine is better than yours' type post is you. The only person that has made a post about the imagined mindset of the owner of a competing pre-pro is you. No one else in this thread has said a word about a processor they don't own... other then you.

Shawn
post #20 of 45
Thread Starter 
Shawn. why don't we do this - each of us post what we chose our surround processor which may include our subjective bias or perhaps stuff we say someone else may misinterpret - AND each of us who posts in this thread agrees to ignore comments made by anyone which we may either properly interpret or perhaps misinterpret as putting down our own choice of surround processor or how our system sounds. Are you game for this?
post #21 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Shawn. why don't we do this - each of us post what we chose our surround processor which may include our subjective bias or perhaps stuff we say someone else may misinterpret - AND each of us who posts in this thread agrees to ignore comments made by anyone which we may either properly interpret or perhaps misinterpret as putting down our own choice of surround processor or how our system sounds. Are you game for this?

NO TAKERS????? Come on. I promise to put a leash on Bulldogger.
post #22 of 45
I don't know but it seems to me that ALL of your surround processors could be taking a beating by this lowly Denon piece soon.



It has sixteen channel for Bi amping, multiple subs, multiple channels of speakers.

Full blown Audissey, h1.3, ip controllable and IP radio. HD radio.

Since all of the new processors have to use a new hardware chip to effectively handle the HD formats in HDMI. I argue that there will not be much difference in how they sound. This one is built very well.



Not to mention the matching 10 channel bridgeable to 4 ohm amp.



post #23 of 45
Thread Starter 
Cineramax, what's the list on these beasts? When are they to be available?
post #24 of 45
Is that the new Denon 'Pre' I heard about at CES. It was supposed to be able to wash dishes too?
post #25 of 45
"I don't know but it seems to me that ALL of your surround processors could be talking a beating by this lowly Denon piece soon."

I don't know, this will be a pretty strong combo too.

Shawn
LL
post #26 of 45
It is slated for 15 grand for the combo. See it in September.
post #27 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

I don't know, this will be a pretty strong combo too.

Shawn, you tease! What's that silver box on the bottom? And do you luv it?

--Andre
post #28 of 45
Andre,

"What's that silver box on the bottom?"

Just a little something from Oregon.

"And do you luv it?"

I can neither confirm nor deny 'luving' it. NDA and all that.

Shawn
post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

It is slated for 15 grand for the combo. See it in September.

I'd take it more seriously if it weren't for the garish overkill in inputs. A true high-end piece would have a far more strategic, rather than foolish, array of inputs and outputs. Looks like typical Denon features over quality design, taken to ridiculous.

And it will still be out of date in a year or two, just like a $3K piece.
post #30 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I don't know but it seems to me that ALL of your surround processors could be talking a beating by this lowly Denon piece soon.



It has sixteen channel for Bi amping, multiple subs, multiple channels of speakers.

Full blown Audissey, h1.3, ip controllable and IP radio. HD radio.

Since all of the new processors have to use a new hardware chip to effectively handle the HD formats in HDMI. I argue that there will not be much difference in how they sound. This one is built very well.



Not to mention the matching 10 channel bridgeable to 4 ohm amp.




Cineramax is directly responding to the questions I asked when I started this thread and he makes a valid point - he argues there will not be much difference in how surround processor sound in HDMI in the HD formats, as they all have to use a new hardware chip.

Could he be right about this?

And might some of us with more "audiophile" surround processors, whether Meridian, Theta, Lex or Halcro, find that the Dolby Digital track via coaxial/toslink
processed by the surround processor's "better" DACs sounds as good or better as the HDMI with the new and better HD audio formats? I hope not, but its possible.
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