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The Official Pioneer 8G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 362

post #10831 of 12754
6/17/08 at 3:26pm
if anyone is interested - i'm going to be selling my 5080 in july (getting a 151). So, if you are interested and live locally, let me know. If on one on here is interested, i'll be puting it on ebay in the middle of july.
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post #10832 of 12754
6/17/08 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

Now that I think about this I am a bit confused as I have the STB set to pass the resolution of 1080i and thus let the 1150 do the decoding to 768p. Thus, the STB must be doing something else to the signal quality before passing it on.

If you've set your box to output only 1080i, then it is upconverting the native 720p channels that you receive. If that is indeed the case, do your 1080i native channels look any better or worse than the 720p channels?
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post #10833 of 12754
6/17/08 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

if anyone is interested - i'm going to be selling my 5080 in july (getting a 151). So, if you are interested and live locally, let me know. If on one on here is interested, i'll be puting it on ebay in the middle of july.

me too - I live in the DFW area and am happy with my purchase - one of those guys looking for the next gen thing, knowing it will cost me -
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post #10834 of 12754
6/17/08 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

if anyone is interested - i'm going to be selling my 5080 in july (getting a 151). So, if you are interested and live locally, let me know. If on one on here is interested, i'll be puting it on ebay in the middle of july.

Do you have any idea what you would want for it?
How many hours on it?
Any dead pixels or buzzing?

I just got a 5080 display model from BB but still have 30 days to return.
Yes it has a lot of hours on it.
For the right price from you it might be worth returning and getting yours.

Please let me know.
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post #10835 of 12754
6/17/08 at 6:51pm
For those selling the 5080 and getting the new 151- is the new set of Kuros really worth the trouble? I'm curious since the 5080's were hyped as such a leap forward in plasma tech. Is the step up from 8g to 9g similar to that of the 7g>8gKuros?
Guess I'l have to check them out myself - I don't doubt there have been improvements but,
I wouldn't think it would be worth the effort just for one generation upgrade.
8g is barely a year old.
8g to 10g makes more sense.
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post #10836 of 12754
6/17/08 at 6:56pm
as for overall pq the 9g should be a little better with the deeper blacks and higher contrast. dnice said you could see the difference between his 1150 and the 6020 he just got.

but in this case he is making a huge upgrade going from a 50" to a 60" he's getting 44% more screen area which is certainly right there to see an immediate huge difference, besides going to an elite model and 9g.
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post #10837 of 12754
6/17/08 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FINN360 View Post

If you've set your box to output only 1080i, then it is upconverting the native 720p channels that you receive. If that is indeed the case, do your 1080i native channels look any better or worse than the 720p channels?

Finn - you are going to have to help me out here. My understanding is that the best picture is obtained by letting the 1150, instead of the STB, convert the resolution to 768p, thus you want the STB to pass 1080i for HD channels. As far as SD channels, it is my understanding that they are native 480p and they do look best when the STB is set to 480p but 95% of my viewing is HD channels so I just leave the STB set to 1080i. BTW, the CC input looks better in all instances.
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post #10838 of 12754
6/17/08 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent_C View Post

If you enter the service menu while viewing 24p content, the 50vs RGB menu will automatically become active. You can see it in the upper right-hand corner of the screen when you get to the RGB section.

A_C

Thanks A_C. One thing I did notice is that 50vs factory settings were quite different than the 60vs settings for the upper range. The lower range however was the same across the board. I also found that the AVSHD 709 disc did a much better job with eyeball calibrating than the DVE disc. The color was quite a bit more saturated with DVE and were completely unrealistic. Have had the tv just about a month and i'm lovin' it!
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post #10839 of 12754
6/17/08 at 7:53pm
I'm using D-nice settings and my Blacks are not BLACK as many ppl are saying 8G kuro is. in a dark room tv screen is so noticeable with no signal input. It almost seems like the black are faded black
here is a pic of tv . on this picture it looks like it almost Black are the rest of the room but in real life its about 3x brighter


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post #10840 of 12754
6/17/08 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

Finn - you are going to have to help me out here. My understanding is that the best picture is obtained by letting the 1150, instead of the STB, convert the resolution to 768p, thus you want the STB to pass 1080i for HD channels. As far as SD channels, it is my understanding that they are native 480p and they do look best when the STB is set to 480p but 95% of my viewing is HD channels so I just leave the STB set to 1080i. BTW, the CC input looks better in all instances.

Yeah the Kuro will almost certainly handle the processing better than any set top box so the theory is to feed it as unprocessed a signal as possible and let the Kuro work its magic. Some HD channels broadcast in 720p and some broadcast in 1080i. If you have your box set to output 1080i only, then it is upconverting any HD channels that broadcast in 720p and of course, any SD channels. So in those instances, your box is processing that signal and then passing it on to your Kuro where it gets processed again. Now you and I have different boxes and the way you have yours set up may be best for your situation. I have found on my SA box that the 720p channels look better when I pass them through at 720p. My box lets me pick 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i output. I select all of them and the box passes on the signal without any upconversion. The only downside to this that I've found is channel changes take more time. For example, if I switch between a 1080i channel and a 720p channel, the Kuro has to adjust the input resolution which takes an extra second or two. It bothers some folks but not me.

Now to your cablecard problem. I don't have one but I do have two coax cables running from my structured wire panel to my Kuro. One to the cable box and one to Antenna 1 on the TV. I have flipped back and forth between Antenna 1 input and cable box to compare image quality and have noticed a slight improvement with Antenna 1. It's not huge but it's there so the box is obviously having some effect on image quality. I'm guessing your box is doing the same.
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post #10841 of 12754
6/17/08 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nosferatu2xlc View Post

I'm using D-nice settings and my Blacks are not BLACK as many ppl are saying 8G kuro is. in a dark room tv screen is so noticeable with no signal input. It almost seems like the black are faded black
here is a pic of tv . on this picture it looks like it almost Black are the rest of the room but in real life its about 3x brighter



No offense but why do you care what it looks like with no signal input? What do your blacks look like when you're watching something? You can always lower your brightness a bit if you want deeper black though you run the risk of crushing them and losing shadow detail if you go too low. Keep in mind that a lot of what you see as black is not pure black as everything reflects light to some degree. If you like to watch in a completely darkened room, your eyes will adjust and blacks start losing their "blackness". Consider some ambient lighting or, even better, backlighting. Backlighting will raise your apparent contrast, blacks will look deeper, and your eyes will thank you.

That being said, there is still room for improvement in Kuro black levels. The new 9G's are better but the 10G's promise a whole new level. We shall see...
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post #10842 of 12754
6/17/08 at 8:29pm
i went and saw a 6020 and the blacks are about 20% better than my 5080 - but that isn't why i'm selling the 5080 - its because i had planned on getting a 60 inch plasma this year regardless - i wanted to see if i really liked the plasma technology before i commited to a bigger investment in a tv. I had thought about LCD, but found that this 5080 had a superior picture to any LCD or Plasma on the market.

i want the 151 over the 150 because they are about the same price (can get the 151 for exactly 5 k and could get the 6020 for exactly 4k). so - decided on the 151 for the extra 1 k.
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post #10843 of 12754
6/17/08 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FINN360 View Post

Yeah the Kuro will almost certainly handle the processing better than any set top box so the theory is to feed it as unprocessed a signal as possible and let the Kuro work its magic. Some HD channels broadcast in 720p and some broadcast in 1080i. If you have your box set to output 1080i only, then it is upconverting any HD channels that broadcast in 720p and of course, any SD channels. So in those instances, your box is processing that signal and then passing it on to your Kuro where it gets processed again. Now you and I have different boxes and the way you have yours set up may be best for your situation. I have found on my SA box that the 720p channels look better when I pass them through at 720p. My box lets me pick 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i output. I select all of them and the box passes on the signal without any upconversion. The only downside to this that I've found is channel changes take more time. For example, if I switch between a 1080i channel and a 720p channel, the Kuro has to adjust the input resolution which takes an extra second or two. It bothers some folks but not me.

Now to your cablecard problem. I don't have one but I do have two coax cables running from my structured wire panel to my Kuro. One to the cable box and one to Antenna 1 on the TV. I have flipped back and forth between Antenna 1 input and cable box to compare image quality and have noticed a slight improvement with Antenna 1. It's not huge but it's there so the box is obviously having some effect on image quality. I'm guessing your box is doing the same.

My Moto box only lets me select one at a time so I have to assume the native resolution for FiOS HD channels is 1080i. The big problem for me, and what also sounds like a problem for your SA box, is the fact these STB's are having a negative impact on PQ. Why is this???
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post #10844 of 12754
6/17/08 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FINN360 View Post

My box lets me pick 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i output. I select all of them and the box passes on the signal without any upconversion.

FINN360,

I would uncheck the 480P output since it is not a native NTSC broadcast resolution. I believe that enabling 480P as an output resolution causes the 8300 to automatically convert 480i signals to 480P, which is something I would rather have the 1150 doing.
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post #10845 of 12754
6/17/08 at 8:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

The big problem for me, and what also sounds like a problem for your SA box, is the fact these STB's are having a negative impact on PQ. Why is this???

Inferior processing. These STB's are made as cheaply as possible to barely get the job done. The companies making them are not striving to compete on quality, but on price. The cable and satco's are not going to spend more money on a higher quality box from company A when they can spend considerably less buying a box that basically gets the job done from company B .
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post #10846 of 12754
6/17/08 at 9:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

My Moto box only lets me select one at a time so I have to assume the native resolution for FiOS HD channels is 1080i. The big problem for me, and what also sounds like a problem for your SA box, is the fact these STB's are having a negative impact on PQ. Why is this???

No the network is choosing which res they transmit at. NBC and CBS transmit at 1080i while ABC, Fox, and ESPN transmit at 720p. Like any cable or satellite service, Verizon is just grabbing those signals, packaging them, and sending them on to you. If your box only lets you select one at a time, then selecting 1080i is the best you can do. I suppose it is possible that Verizon is upscaling everything to 1080i before sending it to you. You could always contact their tech support and pose that question to them.
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post #10847 of 12754
6/17/08 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

FINN360,

I would uncheck the 480P output since it is not a native NTSC broadcast resolution. I believe that enabling 480P as an output resolution causes the 8300 to automatically convert 480i signals to 480P, which is something I would rather have the 1150 doing.

I agree with your post but I watch so little SDTV content it doesn't matter. I do set my Toshiba A30 to output 480i when watching SD DVD though.
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post #10848 of 12754
6/17/08 at 9:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

Inferior processing. These STB's are made as cheaply as possible to barely get the job done. The companies making them are not striving to compete on quality, but on price. The cable and satco's are not going to spend more money on a higher quality box from company A when they can spend considerably less buying a box that basically gets the job done from company B .

Exactly, most of these boxes are quite frankly crap. I go through at least two SA DVR boxes and a cable modem every year. Luckily there's a Bright House service center 5 minutes down the road from me and they swap them out with no hassle. Even so, I've been able to adjust my Kuro's settings to where I'm quite happy with the PQ.
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post #10849 of 12754
6/17/08 at 9:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

Now that I think about this I am a bit confused as I have the STB set to pass the resolution of 1080i and thus let the 1150 do the decoding to 768p. Thus, the STB must be doing something else to the signal quality before passing it on.

it does. the cablecard does not. two different things. the cablecard is akin to a "key" that unlocks certain channels.
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post #10850 of 12754
6/18/08 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FINN360 View Post

The new 9G's are better but the 10G's promise a whole new level. We shall see...

Until the 11 G's in which case we will be getting below black. Probably displaying dark matter or some other unknown anti-gravitational energy.



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post #10851 of 12754
6/18/08 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

. BTW, the CC input looks better in all instances.

most people have reported the same thing and my experience is the same - i run 2 pios with ccs. the reason, as you know by now, is simply because the pios do a better job of tuning and demodulation. there are, however, a couple of posts where people think the newer stbs are better.
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post #10852 of 12754
6/18/08 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FINN360 View Post

Exactly, most of these boxes are quite frankly crap. I go through at least two SA DVR boxes and a cable modem every year. Luckily there's a Bright House service center 5 minutes down the road from me and they swap them out with no hassle. Even so, I've been able to adjust my Kuro's settings to where I'm quite happy with the PQ.

I was also guite happy with the STB PQ until I started playing around with PAP during a recent NBA Finals game and quickly picked up the difference in PQ between the STB and CC. There is a significant difference once you do this comparison. You can easily get what appears to be a 3D image with the CC but no way with the STB. The CC PQ is on another level.
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post #10853 of 12754
6/18/08 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

Finn - you are going to have to help me out here. My understanding is that the best picture is obtained by letting the 1150, instead of the STB, convert the resolution to 768p, thus you want the STB to pass 1080i for HD channels. As far as SD channels, it is my understanding that they are native 480p and they do look best when the STB is set to 480p but 95% of my viewing is HD channels so I just leave the STB set to 1080i. BTW, the CC input looks better in all instances.

For channels that broadcast 720p do you feel passing 1080i from the STB looks better than using 720p w/STB?

Regarding SD content, my experience w/STB or CableCARD is that sending 480p from an STB looks better than 480i w/direct coax connection +CableCARD for both 720p & 1080p PDPs.
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post #10854 of 12754
6/18/08 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

Until the 11 G's in which case we will be getting below black. Probably displaying dark matter or some other unknown anti-gravitational energy.





Maybe they'll suck up heat instead of emitting it. TV/air conditioner.
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post #10855 of 12754
6/18/08 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

For channels that broadcast 720p do you feel passing 1080i from the STB looks better than using 720p w/STB?

Not sure and don't care as there is no way I am going to keep track of which HD channels are transmitted in 1080i vs 720p and then go into the STB menu to make that adjustment each time I change the channel. This rabbit hole of CC vs. STB input is bad enough. I almost wish the 1150 didn't have a CC input as I would have never known what I was missing.
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post #10856 of 12754
6/18/08 at 8:23am
OK- a lot of good information being passed. Let me see if I have this right. Currently, I have my cable box set to output 1080 for my 1150hd.

But if I understand these threads, since my 1150HD can only handle 720(768) I believe, then should I reset my cable box to 720 so that my 1150 hd takes full advantage of it's 720 capability and does not have to do any processing???

Suggestions?
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post #10857 of 12754
6/18/08 at 8:33am
Hello,

I have a new 150FD and is there a way to confirm that it is displaying /24. The display just says 1080p but, my Denon bluray is saying it is outputing /24. PureCinema mode is selected. Just wanted to confirm as it is going through my AVR.

Since I am new to this HD thing using D-Nice's settings my DVD/Bluray movies look great but, I was watching Ocean's 13 in HD on showtime and some of the scenes seemed to have horrible color . There were scenes were the background neon lighting was washing out the fleshtones. Does anyone have thoughts. Do you think it is a combination of the movie or showtimes encoding?

-Scurvydog
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post #10858 of 12754
6/18/08 at 8:38am
the only way is to change the input to "PC" - it will say 24hz.

Ocean's 13 was shot that way. it's not a good movie to judge PQ by.
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post #10859 of 12754
6/18/08 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoofpilot View Post

OK- a lot of good information being passed. Let me see if I have this right. Currently, I have my cable box set to output 1080 for my 1150hd.

But if I understand these threads, since my 1150HD can only handle 720(768) I believe, then should I reset my cable box to 720 so that my 1150 hd takes full advantage of it's 720 capability and does not have to do any processing???

Suggestions?

Yes, it's commonly referred to as 'Pass Through' mode; where the resolution is not altered by the box and passed along to the TV in its native form.

You'll have to decide for yourself which looks better; letting the TV do the up-conversion, or the box. Some cable boxes do up-conversion better than others and some TV's do it better than others.

Also known as 'scaling'; the Kuro's do a very good job indeed at 480i (standard definition TV). I'm less convinced however, at 720p with a SA 8300 HD DVR. It sometimes looks better when the box converts 720p to 1080i.

YMMV

A_C
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post #10860 of 12754
6/18/08 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ1150 View Post

Not sure and don't care as there is no way I am going to keep track of which HD channels are transmitted in 1080i vs 720p and then go into the STB menu to make that adjustment each time I change the channel. This rabbit hole of CC vs. STB input is bad enough. I almost wish the 1150 didn't have a CC input as I would have never known what I was missing.

I'm not sure what STB(s) you have but TWs SciAtl boxes can be set up to pass 480p/720p/1080i signals.

IMO if someone is limited to one SD/HD setting that 480p/1080i is best.
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