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The Official Pioneer 8G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 12754
6/14/07 at 11:36am
Just curious but would it be smarter to buy the 1140 elite or wait for the 5080 and save grand?

In Canada the 1140 is going for around 4800 and 5080 will be around 3800
Is it possible that the 1140 will drop in price substantially once the new 8g screens are released??
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post #62 of 12754
6/14/07 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bak_phy View Post

Thanks kr8z1,
Does the factory setting reset, reset the service menu as well? Does this include the time counters?

From what I was told it should set everything back to factory presets - but I am not positive this includes the timers. If I were to guess I'd say no, it does not reset the timers - and IIRC someone else here tested this in the past and the timers were not touched. They reset their tv to get the TVGOS to turn off. There is a reset within the SM to clear the timers by the way.
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post #63 of 12754
6/14/07 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I don't have one yet. However, I;ve been assured by my contact that if you use the orbiter, you will never have to worry about IR.

That is a bold statement from your contact. I don't see how they can make that statement. Lets use the Animal Planet logo for an example. The orbiter will not more that logo to an unused area of the screen. Their logo is a green square, relatively large. The orbitor will slowly shift the pixels, but with such a large, solid color logo, it is only going to shift them into an area that is already green, thus staying green.

Unless I misunderstand the orbiter, this statement cannot be true. The animal planet isn't the only one that uses a logo like this. I think the orbiter will help but to say never is inaccurate, at least in my opinion.
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post #64 of 12754
6/14/07 at 12:53pm
Getting IR and worrying about it can also be two different things
D-Nice can clarify if he'd like, but I'd say the orbiter should at least get people to stop worrying so much...even though they should have put a lot of the worry aside with the 7G models.
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post #65 of 12754
6/14/07 at 2:28pm
Thread Starter 
The definition of an orbiter is to stop a static image from displaying on the exact same pixels over a given amount of time.

I'm not sure why this is such a complicated item. In simplest terms it keeps everything on the screen moving....just like the normal moving objects in a given signal.
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post #66 of 12754
6/14/07 at 2:37pm
D-Nice, I think what is hard to understand (as WilliamR says here and what is said by a few of us in the 8G Kuro Owner's thread last night) is that we don't understand how a pixel that is right in the middle of a logo that is solid green will be any better/worse from the orbiter moving the image 1/16th of a pixel. That pixel will seemingly always be solid green and thus subject to IR.

I am sure there is something several of us don't understand regarding this. But that is what is confusing us. If you can help us that would be appreciated.
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post #67 of 12754
6/14/07 at 2:46pm
I think the orbiter must be similar to Panasonic's "wobbling", which doesn't eliminate IR. It makes the edges of the affected area less distinct and therefore less detectable, but, as suggested, in solid colored areas, some pixels effectively remain unchanged.

-Steve
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post #68 of 12754
6/14/07 at 2:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sma View Post

D-Nice, I think what is hard to understand (as WilliamR says here and what is said by a few of us in the 8G Kuro Owner's thread last night) is that we don't understand how a pixel that is right in the middle of a logo that is solid green will be any better/worse from the orbiter moving the image 1/16th of a pixel. That pixel will seemingly always be solid green and thus subject to IR.

I am sure there is something several of us don't understand regarding this. But that is what is confusing us. If you can help us that would be appreciated.

My question would be how is a pixel in the middle of a color stream be any better or worse from an orbiter that moves the image 1 pixel at a time?

Other questions you should ask....

How long does it take to get IR?

How long does it take to move a pixel by one pixel per a "one pixel at a time"orbiter?

How long does it take to move a pixel by one pixel per Pioneer's 1/16th stepped pixel orbiter?

If I have 10 minutes to walk 10 feet, does it matter if I accomplish that feat with 10 steps or with 100 steps?
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post #69 of 12754
6/14/07 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

My question would be how is a pixel in the middle of a color stream be any better or worse from an orbiter that moves the image 1 pixel at a time?

Other questions you should ask....

How long does it take to get IR?

How long does it take to move a pixel by one pixel per a "one pixel at a time"orbiter?

How long does it take to move a pixel by one pixel per Pioneer's 1/16th stepped pixel orbiter?

If I have 10 minutes to walk 10 feet, does it matter if I accomplish that feat with 10 steps or with 100 steps?

If the orbiter works, it works, regardless of if we are not sure how it does it. If people think that it does not work, then they are free to not use it. Pioneer installed it for a functional reason. I am glad to have such a feature, and I when I purchase my Elite, I will make sure to use it. I do not need to know how it does it's job, anymore than I need to know how my words get from my keyboard to this thread. As long as they get there is all that I care about. If people are going to obsess about IR, then perhaps Phospor based Image Replication Technology is not for them. It is what it is.
Perhaps the pixels are being herded by a Nano Border Collie who answers to the name of Orbiter!.

...
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post #70 of 12754
6/14/07 at 3:17pm
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post #71 of 12754
6/14/07 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

If the orbiter works, it works, regardless of if we are not sure how it does it. If people think that it does not work, then they are free to not use it. Pioneer installed it for a functional reason. I am glad to have such a feature, and I when I purchase my Elite, I will make sure to use it. I do not need to know how it does it's job, anymore than I need to know how my words get from my keyboard to this thread. As long as they get there is all that I care about. If people are going to obsess about IR, then perhaps Phospor based Image Replication Technology is not for them. It is what it is.
Perhaps the pixels are being herded by a Nano Border Collie who answers to the name of Orbiter!.

...

That is a valid opinion of course. I am not one of these obsessed by IR. I am someone who enjoys to understand things technical being of a technical career choice. I am sure there are many of us on this board who would simply like to understand because it interests us. Again, as I said in the other thread... just trying to keep the Science in AVS. Questions about a feature don't mean we don't believe it works. As you can see I stated "I am sure there is something several of us don't understand regarding this", that is simply saying that I wish to understand how it works.

D-Nice, I was not sure why the comparison with a 1 pixel shift orbiter but I agree, I would not see how it would be any better/worse if it shifted an entire pixel. Perhaps I will understand better as others respond and hash your questions around a bit. If everyone wants to drop it... that is fine too.
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post #72 of 12754
6/14/07 at 3:27pm
D-Nice - I have a question for you.

In the past 2/3 days, my 5080 shut down with the blue blinking light on two occasions. Once turned back on, it said to wait for start-up and then the OTA tuner setup was reset, so I had to reprogram it. The OSTG settings were unaffected.
I think this is linked to the OTA signal being low, since I had bad reception when this happened.

Would you think that this warrants calling Pioneer/vendor or is it something that it's deemed acceptable because it can't be fixed (inherit bug)?
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post #73 of 12754
6/14/07 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by [omen] View Post

Cool. I'll be sure to give it a rest every now and then. And yeah, I already have the DVD-R version of the Break In DVD downloaded and ready to burn. Great thread, btw.

I ran mine 48 hours at a time, then with a little break, then back up again. Heat didn't seem any worse than when watching a movie.

The breakin DVD is also a great screen wipe if you get any IR.
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post #74 of 12754
6/14/07 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnisco3 View Post

D-Nice - I have a question for you.

In the past 2/3 days, my 5080 shut down with the blue blinking light on two occasions. Once turned back on, it said to wait for start-up and then the OTA tuner setup was reset, so I had to reprogram it. The OSTG settings were unaffected.
I think this is linked to the OTA signal being low, since I had bad reception when this happened.

Would you think that this warrants calling Pioneer/vendor or is it something that it's deemed acceptable because it can't be fixed (inherit bug)?

Call Pioneer! Report back what they tell you. Hopefully this is not the same flaw some of the 7Gs were experiencing.
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post #75 of 12754
6/14/07 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckowner View Post

Hello all.New member here.First of all, a big HOOOOORAY to a gentleman called D_NICE and all other members for "educating" me about the new pioneer plasma tv.Second,i am now stationed in Iraq and soon will be home for a couple of months before my next deployment.i plan to purchase the new pdp-5080hd and i will be using only the tv's speaker.i noticed that pioneer stated the tv has surround sound (???) i always thought that in order to have surround sound effect,one must use multiple speakers,and D-nice,do you think the tv's speaker will be adequate for a small bed room?thank you all again,and hope you will not be mad or bored with my "elementary" question.Be safe and God bless America.regards. Lt. Ngo. US Army.

I can't find that reference you mentioned where Pioneer stated that the 5080 has "surround sound," but some specs I did find mentioned an "SRS WOW" feature:

http://www.plasmatv.com/PDP-5080HDpage.html

I'm pretty sure that "SRS WOW" is a virtual surround sound mode and that's probably what Pio was referring to. You're right that historically surround sound is achieved by placing multiple speakers around the listener. A bunch of companies now have products that try to create a virtual surround experience using two speakers - by employing all sorts of majicks and whatnot. Older Pio plasmas have had this feature too. Here's a little write up on the 4270 which had it:

"High-quality virtual surround sound can be experienced with just the speakers built into the sides of the TV. SRS TruSurround XT technology delivers an amazing, simulated 3D effect with clear dialog and powerful bass..."

http://amapedia.amazon.com/view/Pion...a+HDTV/id=5383

I'm sure D-Nice can elaborate on this, but regardless, the 5080's speakers should be fine. I just wouldn't expect it to sound like a full-blown discrete surround system though.

Here's some links on virtual surround sound which might help shed more light on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_surround
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...e/1752292.html

BTW, a 5080 is going to be a damn nice welcome home present for when you get back. Stay safe yourself over there! Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum.
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post #76 of 12754
6/14/07 at 5:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnisco3 View Post

D-Nice - I have a question for you.

In the past 2/3 days, my 5080 shut down with the blue blinking light on two occasions. Once turned back on, it said to wait for start-up and then the OTA tuner setup was reset, so I had to reprogram it. The OSTG settings were unaffected.
I think this is linked to the OTA signal being low, since I had bad reception when this happened.

Would you think that this warrants calling Pioneer/vendor or is it something that it's deemed acceptable because it can't be fixed (inherit bug)?

Its the TV Guide feature. The only way to stop it is to disable the TVGOS and turn off the auto clock time feature.

Yes I know....it sucks and why in the world would Pioneer continue to use such a POS of a guide. I personally hate the TVGOS feature and wish Pioneer would have refrained from including it in the 8Gs.
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post #77 of 12754
6/14/07 at 5:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by [omen] View Post

I can't find that reference you mentioned where Pioneer stated that the 5080 has "surround sound," but some specs I did find mentioned an "SRS WOW" feature:

http://www.plasmatv.com/PDP-5080HDpage.html

I'm pretty sure that "SRS WOW" is a virtual surround sound mode and that's probably what Pio was referring to. You're right that historically surround sound is achieved by placing multiple speakers around the listener. A bunch of companies now have products that try to create a virtual surround experience using two speakers - by employing all sorts of majicks and whatnot. Older Pio plasmas have had this feature too. Here's a little write up on the 4270 which had it:

"High-quality virtual surround sound can be experienced with just the speakers built into the sides of the TV. SRS TruSurround XT technology delivers an amazing, simulated 3D effect with clear dialog and powerful bass..."

http://amapedia.amazon.com/view/Pion...a+HDTV/id=5383

I'm sure D-Nice can elaborate on this, but regardless, the 5080's speakers should be fine. I just wouldn't expect it to sound like a full-blown discrete surround system though.

Here's some links on virtual surround sound which might help shed more light on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_surround
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...e/1752292.html

BTW, a 5080 is going to be a damn nice welcome home present for when you get back. Stay safe yourself over there! Oh yeah, and welcome to the forum.

i totally forgot about his questions. My apologies. As far as the speaker goes, it should be perfectly fine to use in the bedroom. Just don't expect to have anything near a real surround sound system with the Pioneer speaker.
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post #78 of 12754
6/14/07 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Its the TV Guide feature. The only way to stop it is to disable the TVGOS and turn off the auto clock time feature.

Yes I know....it sucks and why in the world would Pioneer continue to use such a POS of a guide. I personally hate the TVGOS feature and wish Pioneer would have refrained from including it in the 8Gs.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Sir D-Nice.
TVGOS is very important to me, since I only watch OTA and (sometimes) DVDs. That's basically why I bought the 5080.

Other than disabling TVGOS, do you have any other advice to reduce the recurrence? Would an inline antenna amp improve the signal (if its quality is the culprit)?
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post #79 of 12754
6/14/07 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnisco3 View Post

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Sir D-Nice.
TVGOS is very important to me, since I only watch OTA and (sometimes) DVDs. That's basically why I bought the 5080.

Other than disabling TVGOS, do you have any other advice to reduce the recurrence? Would an inline antenna amp improve the signal (if its quality is the culprit)?

It doesn't hurt to try an amp. However, I cannot guarantee that it will fully resolve your TVGOS issue. I do know that a low signal can definitely cause the blinking lights if the TVGOS is attempting to do it's daily updates.
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post #80 of 12754
6/15/07 at 5:07am
I can't believe the blinking light "feature" is back. :\\ Fortunately, I do not use either tuner and disabled the feature on my 4270 and will do the same with my 5080 next week. It's still annoying to know that it's a problem...

BTW, has anyone pulled off the service menu black bar adjustment? I know I originally figured this out on my own a year ago...but I also discovered the awful pink screen issue within the service mode as well. I can't recall the name of the setting I modified, though I didn't have much trouble finding it either. I simply want to be able to jump right into my 5080 and change this immediately without potentially running into any issues.

Perhaps I'll check it out again on my 4270 this evening...
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post #81 of 12754
6/15/07 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dark1x View Post

I can't believe the blinking light "feature" is back. :\\ Fortunately, I do not use either tuner and disabled the feature on my 4270 and will do the same with my 5080 next week. It's still annoying to know that it's a problem...

BTW, has anyone pulled off the service menu black bar adjustment? I know I originally figured this out on my own a year ago...but I also discovered the awful pink screen issue within the service mode as well. I can't recall the name of the setting I modified, though I didn't have much trouble finding it either. I simply want to be able to jump right into my 5080 and change this immediately without potentially running into any issues.

Perhaps I'll check it out again on my 4270 this evening...

I know - I just read another thread that discusses this problem from the previous generation of plasmas. Makes me wonder why this wasn't taken care of and if it affects any other manufacturer, since the problem is the OSTG download with a bad signal.

I did see the black bar adjustments in the service menu - you can definitely change them to black instead of gray and it's self explanatory/easy to find. I think it's called Side Masks, and you just have to lower it's value to 0.

What about this pink screen?
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post #82 of 12754
6/15/07 at 7:06am
I thought the whole point of the grey sidebars was to excite the phosphors in a closer way to the main portion of the screen versus just black. There are options in the normal menu to auto-detect sidebars and either replace with the grey (or black if you switch in the service menu) or to stretch. You can have the grey adjust with the brightness of the rest of the screen content also. If you want pure black, why not just disable the auto detection of the sidebars instead of going through the service menu change? The sidebars are likely black that come in as part of the source, right?

Maybe I'm missing how this stuff works?
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post #83 of 12754
6/15/07 at 7:11am
^^^^ Nice to have pixel shift in any panel but panels without this technology would not be a deal killer. "IR" is one thing and comes and goes even if it can be spotted, "Burn in" is something that is very hard to achieve.
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post #84 of 12754
6/15/07 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnisco3 View Post

I know - I just read another thread that discusses this problem from the previous generation of plasmas. Makes me wonder why this wasn't taken care of and if it affects any other manufacturer, since the problem is the OSTG download with a bad signal.

I did see the black bar adjustments in the service menu - you can definitely change them to black instead of gray and it's self explanatory/easy to find. I think it's called Side Masks, and you just have to lower it's value to 0.

What about this pink screen?

Thanks.

As for the pink screen, well, while I was looking through the service menu (specifically the panel menu) on my 4270 the entire screen turned bright pink. I, of course, panicked and powered off the set. However, upon turning it back on, I was greeted with the same pink screen. I could see NO picture outside of the pink. This was not the result of changing anything either as I was simply browsing. I've used the service menu is many televisions and have never encountered anything like THAT.

I ended up leaving it unplugged for 15 minutes and when I came back, it was fine. I have no clue why that occured, but it did freak me out.
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post #85 of 12754
6/15/07 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobsjg View Post

I thought the whole point of the grey sidebars was to excite the phosphors in a closer way to the main portion of the screen versus just black. There are options in the normal menu to auto-detect sidebars and either replace with the grey (or black if you switch in the service menu) or to stretch. You can have the grey adjust with the brightness of the rest of the screen content also. If you want pure black, why not just disable the auto detection of the sidebars instead of going through the service menu change? The sidebars are likely black that come in as part of the source, right?

Maybe I'm missing how this stuff works?

No, unfortuneately this is not how the Side Mask works (at least not for the 7Gs, I expect the 8Gs work the same).
It doesn't auto detect sidebars and replace with grey. You can either have the side bars set to FIXED which makes them grey, or have it set to auto which mirrors the picture and fills the sides.
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post #86 of 12754
6/15/07 at 2:04pm
To change the Side Mask to Black:

Enter the Service Menu
Start with the plasma turned OFF
Make sure you point the remote directly at the IR sensor in the tv

Press DISPLAY on the remote (just press, do not hold)
Wait 3 seconds
Press LEFT, UP, LEFT, RIGHT then POWER

If done correctly, the plasma turns on and the INFORMATION page is displayed

Press MUTE 3 times until the INITIALIZE screen is displayed
Press DOWN 3 times until SIDE MASK LEVEL (+) is displayed
Press ENTER

Set:
R MASK LEVEL <=> 0
G MASK LEVEL <=> 0
B MASK LEVEL <=> 0

Press HOME MENU to exit
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post #87 of 12754
6/15/07 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kr8z1 View Post

To change the Side Mask to Black:

Set:
R MASK LEVEL <=> 0
G MASK LEVEL <=> 0
B MASK LEVEL <=> 0

Press HOME MENU to exit

Would you say that leaving the red mask level at maximum and turning the others down would be a bad thing?????
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post #88 of 12754
6/15/07 at 2:13pm
I don't see why it would cause a problem. Make it whatever color you'd like. It may change the way IR effects the screen (since that'll only flexing the red subpixels), but you can control what you watch and see if it causes you any problems. Try it out and see what you think.
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post #89 of 12754
6/16/07 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

I would say that you should go through the break in period before having a plasma ISFed or doing a thorough calibration yourself. The reason is that the phosphours age and the settings may be slightly different after break in.

As for whether or not the break in is nevessary, I think someone posted somewhere that a Pio Engineer suggested 150 hours. When I broke in my plasma I would use the break-in dvd over night and when I wasn't around and would watch whatever I wanted the other times. This got me through the first 150 hours quicker so I could watch whatever I wanted. I would zoom 4:3 content and avoid sports/shows with high contrast static overlays for the first 150 hours as well. After a proper break in, I have never had burn in playing video games and watching movies with black bars.

-Evangelo2

Does anyone (D-Nice ) know if a break-in period is even required anymore to help prevent IR now that there are so many IR prevention features on the new 8G sets?

Thanks,
Basheer
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post #90 of 12754
6/16/07 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattypea View Post

Just curious but would it be smarter to buy the 1140 elite or wait for the 5080 and save grand?

In Canada the 1140 is going for around 4800 and 5080 will be around 3800
Is it possible that the 1140 will drop in price substantially once the new 8g screens are released??


I'm not sure where you are shopping in Canada, but you can get the 1140 for $3500.....most dealers are trying to clear them out.

Eitherway, if you're only looking at the 1140 vs the 5080 and you're not considering the 1150, then the 5080 should be your choice, it has better PQ than the 1140.

You can also purchase the 5080 for $3500 in the GTA.

Basheer
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