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The Official Pioneer 8G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread - Page 206

post #6151 of 12754
1/20/08 at 9:06am
Folks,
I have a pioneer 6010 plasma, less than 4 weeks old. Since last night I have a blue green horizontal streak, no matter the source of Video (Satellite or Blue Ray or even the Pioneer menu). So I believe it is on the Plasma and not coming from out side. The location is about 1/3rd of the screen from top. The horizontal streak runs constant at some places and just dots at other places. When there is no video signal, the streak eventually fades out but the moment a new video signal is input, it comes back and stays. Any advise? Has the plasma gone bad? Anxious to get advise and feedback from other 6010 users. Jas
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post #6152 of 12754
1/20/08 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mile2424 View Post

I have my newly acquired 5080 running and it looks awesome thanks to D-nice's settings paired with the PS3.

I am trying to received some of the OTA HD channels for tomorrow's football games, I have Comcast cable going straight from the wall to the TV in ANT A but can't seem to see any of the HD channels. What am I doing wrong? I also tried to put in a Comcast cable card, which I am not sure is necessary, but the TV didn't seem to recognize it. Any help is appreciated.

I believe you need an HD box or cablecard and pay for HD service from Comcast to get their HD channels. I purchased a cheap $15 RCA antenna from Wal-Mart about 3 weeks ago and use that to get all of the local HD stations. Optical out from the 5080 to my receiver for sound. Free HD and 5.1 sound... not bad for $15. Here in Memphis, from what I have seen Comcast doesn't have enough channels for me to pay for their HD service. I strongly suggest checking out the HDTV reception hardware section here on AVS and picking up an antenna to check out the games.
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post #6153 of 12754
1/20/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf57 View Post

The magenta cast of some blues with CS2 disappeared on my 110FD when it was ISFccc'd.

That's part of the problem, it doesn't affect all blues. I might be misinterpreting what you're saying Beowulf, but it sounds as if you still see some magenta on some blues even after the ISFcc with CS2.
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post #6154 of 12754
1/20/08 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltiDawg View Post

Jeff Meier (UMR) of AccuCal yesterday calibrated my PRO-150FD, PS3 BD/DVD player, and audio system.

Thanks for the calibration report. I've included it in the owner's list linked at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.
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post #6155 of 12754
1/20/08 at 11:34am
can anyone recommend one who works in the long island, NY area?
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post #6156 of 12754
1/20/08 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeld View Post

can anyone recommend one who works in the long island, NY area?

Contact Eliab.
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post #6157 of 12754
1/20/08 at 12:36pm
why do some of the lines on the football field look as is they are alive. i have a 5010fd using d nice settings
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post #6158 of 12754
1/20/08 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeld View Post

why do some of the lines on the football field look as is they are alive. i have a 5010fd using d nice settings

Can you be a little more specific? Who is your sevice provider? How do you have your source equipment setup?
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post #6159 of 12754
1/20/08 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beowulf57 View Post

The magenta cast of some blues with CS2 disappeared on my 110FD when it was ISFccc'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thaxx View Post

I haven't heard of the BLUE situation being corrected on anyones set, until they got it IFC calibrated. Until you get this done, it's pretty much going to stay a mystery.
Go get those TV's IFC'ed CORRECTLY.

Yes I do plan to sometime in the middle of the year. For now, I'm just trying to obtain the best look possible without calibration. The Blue is indeed a mystery on CS2.
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post #6160 of 12754
1/20/08 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaxx View Post

I haven't heard of the BLUE situation being corrected on anyones set, until they got it IFC calibrated. Until you get this done, it's pretty much going to stay a mystery.
Go get those TV's IFC'ed CORRECTLY.

The "interpretation" of blue in CS2 isn't going to go away with ISF calibration.
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post #6161 of 12754
1/20/08 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The "interpretation" of blue in CS2 isn't going to go away with ISF calibration.

Dnice,

Do you say this because you think it is a problem with the processing on the TV?
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post #6162 of 12754
1/20/08 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwisenyc View Post

Dnice,

Do you say this because you think it is a problem with the processing on the TV?

No. It's all in how people "think" blue should look in Rec709. Blue is blue in CS2. The only difference between blue in CS2 vs CS1 is the saturation level. Again, blue isn't the issue here, it's cyan..... and cyan isn't accurate in CS1.
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post #6163 of 12754
1/20/08 at 2:04pm
Well here's my beef gentlemen on blue, CS2 and Rec709. I've seen countless blue objects of which the color of blue is known, you see it every day and you live with it. If this is a mix of cyan and some other color to produce what we would call 'sky blue' or whatever, I'm calling it blue for now. As a silly example, take a box of Claritan that my wife uses. I have the box in the house and I know what the color actually does look like. Hell, I've held that damn box in front of the 150 during one of the 100s of Claritan commercials shoved down our throats!!!! The blue in CS1 is simply more accurate than the same rendition in CS2. Take the color of a sky. We know what the color of a sky looks like. CS1 looks more like that on a consistent basis than CS2.

Take my HD video camera stuck out a window, producing a live picture of the scenery and sky. CS1 is closer to the truth in terms of blue than CS2. I see it live, I look out the window and look at the sky and then see the results live on the screen. Which is closer to what I'm seeing live with my own eyes? CS1 does it, CS2 does not.

So, if we are saying that the color blue is consistently more accurate in conforming to Rec709, I can accept that. However, I will then state that Rec709 does not come as close to conforming to the true color of blue on a consistent basis in the real world. I will stand by this until someone can show me the settings that produce a consistently true blue with CS2.

Gentlemen, on my Pro 150, using real world objects, whether they be in nature or a lousy box of Claritan, CS1 is more consistently closer to the truth than CS2...perhaps not as close to 709, but for my tastes it appears I could care less if Rec709 is, in actuality, further from the 'real-world truth'. If I'm not struck by the jarring look of a magenta sky that I know is off-color with CS2, or the blue shirts of Best Buy sales people who's blue I know well and appears too magenta with CS2 or that damn box of Claritan...well, you get the point. Rec709 was developed by committee, blues were not. Sorry to be so stubborn on this issue, but I think it is important and I think it does need to be addressed. In terms of consistently reproducing an accurate blue (or cyan), Rec709 is broken on my 150 and apparently others.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the Kuros produce the best picture bar none, so this is not meant as a negative in terms of the Kuro picture. Now if I only had CS2, I might feel differently.

I shall now come off my soapbox.
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post #6164 of 12754
1/20/08 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeld View Post

why do some of the lines on the football field look as is they are alive. i have a 5010fd using d nice settings


Is it the orange and blue lines that are artificially put on the screen? If so, it is because they are not on the field.
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post #6165 of 12754
1/20/08 at 3:18pm
Traveling on biz all week, so today is my day! I would love to order a Pioneer Elite PRO-150FD today, so it here by the time I come home.

The question is from where? I can find a few great prices using pricing website like PriceGrabber, but the best one told me over the phone they are not an authorized dealer.

Can one of you great TV owners maybe help me join your ranks? Thanks.
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post #6166 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:27pm
What is with the NY Giants Can't they wear their Blue jersey's so we can test our CS1/ CS2 settings ?
Maybe Pioneer brought them the white ones.

I never had a problem with the helmets but sometimes the jerseys did look slightly purple
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post #6167 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No. It's all in how people "think" blue should look in Rec709. Blue is blue in CS2. The only difference between blue in CS2 vs CS1 is the saturation level. Again, blue isn't the issue here, it's cyan..... and cyan isn't accurate in CS1.

Could it be the case that although CS2 Blue is accurate to Rec 709, the processing or the way it's being displayed means there is an issue with the CS2 itself on the display or some other issue? The Best Buy commercials are a good indication and even the NFL logo is much too closer to purple than it should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well here's my beef gentlemen on blue, CS2 and Rec709. I've seen countless blue objects of which the color of blue is known, you see it every day and you live with it. If this is a mix of cyan and some other color to produce what we would call 'sky blue' or whatever, I'm calling it blue for now. As a silly example, take a box of Claritan that my wife uses. I have the box in the house and I know what the color actually does look like. Hell, I've held that damn box in front of the 150 during one of the 100s of Claritan commercials shoved down our throats!!!! The blue in CS1 is simply more accurate than the same rendition in CS2. Take the color of a sky. We know what the color of a sky looks like. CS1 looks more like that on a consistent basis than CS2.

Take my HD video camera stuck out a window, producing a live picture of the scenery and sky. CS1 is closer to the truth in terms of blue than CS2. I see it live, I look out the window and look at the sky and then see the results live on the screen. Which is closer to what I'm seeing live with my own eyes? CS1 does it, CS2 does not.

So, if we are saying that the color blue is consistently more accurate in conforming to Rec709, I can accept that. However, I will then state that Rec709 does not come as close to conforming to the true color of blue on a consistent basis in the real world. I will stand by this until someone can show me the settings that produce a consistently true blue with CS2.

Gentlemen, on my Pro 150, using real world objects, whether they be in nature or a lousy box of Claritan, CS1 is more consistently closer to the truth than CS2...perhaps not as close to 709, but for my tastes it appears I could care less if Rec709 is, in actuality, further from the 'real-world truth'. If I'm not struck by the jarring look of a magenta sky that I know is off-color with CS2, or the blue shirts of Best Buy sales people who's blue I know well and appears too magenta with CS2 or that damn box of Claritan...well, you get the point. Rec709 was developed by committee, blues were not. Sorry to be so stubborn on this issue, but I think it is important and I think it does need to be addressed. In terms of consistently reproducing an accurate blue (or cyan), Rec709 is broken on my 150 and apparently others.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the Kuros produce the best picture bar none, so this is not meant as a negative in terms of the Kuro picture. Now if I only had CS2, I might feel differently.

I shall now come off my soapbox.

I agree. I have compared to some real life objects that are blue and they are not accurate for whatever reason. CS1 is more accurate displayed on the Pio, but other colors like red and orange are a tad lighter than usual. Probably I will have to just try to play some more with CS1.
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post #6168 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stangs55 View Post

Just got my new 6010 setup and running, but I've got a bit of an issue.

When going via HDMI from my Comcast Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR directly to the 6010, I have my DVR set to output everything in its native format. But when I change the channel from a 1080i source to a 720p source (really when changing between any of the different native signals) about 75-90% of the time the screen will flicker and then give me all snow. If I change to another input and then back to the DVR input, the picture is back and displaying fine. This, of course, isn't exactly practical for my family as I watch alot of ESPN (720p) and go back an forth to the other channels which are mainly 1080i.

Sorry if this has already been addressed...but 206 pages is a lil' much to catch up on.

Advice?

Thanks!

Anyone got some help for this?
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post #6169 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwisenyc View Post

Could it be the case that although CS2 Blue is accurate to Rec 709, the processing or the way it's being displayed means there is an issue with the CS2 itself on the display or some other issue?

No
Quote:


The Best Buy commercials are a good indication and even the NFL logo is much too closer to purple than it should be.

Both look identical on my 1150, 1130 and Panny 60u. If it is on your, you need to correct the settings.
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post #6170 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No
Both look identical on my 1150, 1130 and Panny 60u. If it is on your, you need to correct the settings.

Since I am using your 150FD reference settings then you mean that there could be an issue with some of us 150 owners displays? What would you suggest I adjust/change using your settings to get it more accurate?
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post #6171 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well here's my beef gentlemen on blue, CS2 and Rec709. I've seen countless blue objects of which the color of blue is known, you see it every day and you live with it. If this is a mix of cyan and some other color to produce what we would call 'sky blue' or whatever, I'm calling it blue for now. As a silly example, take a box of Claritan that my wife uses. I have the box in the house and I know what the color actually does look like. Hell, I've held that damn box in front of the 150 during one of the 100s of Claritan commercials shoved down our throats!!!! The blue in CS1 is simply more accurate than the same rendition in CS2. Take the color of a sky. We know what the color of a sky looks like. CS1 looks more like that on a consistent basis than CS2.

Take my HD video camera stuck out a window, producing a live picture of the scenery and sky. CS1 is closer to the truth in terms of blue than CS2. I see it live, I look out the window and look at the sky and then see the results live on the screen. Which is closer to what I'm seeing live with my own eyes? CS1 does it, CS2 does not.

So, if we are saying that the color blue is consistently more accurate in conforming to Rec709, I can accept that. However, I will then state that Rec709 does not come as close to conforming to the true color of blue on a consistent basis in the real world. I will stand by this until someone can show me the settings that produce a consistently true blue with CS2.

Gentlemen, on my Pro 150, using real world objects, whether they be in nature or a lousy box of Claritan, CS1 is more consistently closer to the truth than CS2...perhaps not as close to 709, but for my tastes it appears I could care less if Rec709 is, in actuality, further from the 'real-world truth'. If I'm not struck by the jarring look of a magenta sky that I know is off-color with CS2, or the blue shirts of Best Buy sales people who's blue I know well and appears too magenta with CS2 or that damn box of Claritan...well, you get the point. Rec709 was developed by committee, blues were not. Sorry to be so stubborn on this issue, but I think it is important and I think it does need to be addressed. In terms of consistently reproducing an accurate blue (or cyan), Rec709 is broken on my 150 and apparently others.

Please don't get me wrong, I think the Kuros produce the best picture bar none, so this is not meant as a negative in terms of the Kuro picture. Now if I only had CS2, I might feel differently.

I shall now come off my soapbox.

Ken, when you using your camcorder and/or camera are you manually setting the white balance? What type of filter are you using with your camcorder? Also, I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, consumer camcorders and digital cameras use the adobe colorspace. The adobe colorspace is wider than the 709 colorspace. CS1's cyan is closer to the adobe colorspace than it is the 709.
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post #6172 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwisenyc View Post

Since I am using your 150FD reference settings then you mean that there could be an issue with some of us 150 owners displays?

No
Quote:


What would you suggest I adjust/change using your settings to get it more accurate?

Do you have a HDM player?
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post #6173 of 12754
1/20/08 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No
Do you have a HDM player?

Yes. A PS3 and HD-A2.
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post #6174 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No
Both look identical on my 1150, 1130 and Panny 60u. If it is on your, you need to correct the settings.

What about for the 5080 owners with the purple hue to them? Same with D* reset screen and D. Letterman's icon during his show.(with your reference settings)
Thanks D-Nice.
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post #6175 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

Is it the orange and blue lines that are artificially put on the screen? If so, it is because they are not on the field.

it is the white lines : they flicker almost like a barbershop pole but not red. ihave optimum with a scientific atlantica 8300HD i have set up for wide screen and i am watching on cinema mode.
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post #6176 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No
Both look identical on my 1150, 1130 and Panny 60u. If it is on your, you need to correct the settings.

D-Nice, I really feel the Pro 150 is a different animal in this respect. I do not have the same degree of error on my 950. I can live with CS2 on the 950 even though I still think CS1 is a bit better with blue on that set too. But the degree of error with blue on the 150 is greater, trust me.
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post #6177 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Ken, when you using your camcorder and/or camera are you manually setting the white balance? What type of filter are you using with your camcorder? Also, I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, consumer camcorders and digital cameras use the adobe colorspace. The adobe colorspace is wider than the 709 colorspace. CS1's cyan is closer to the adobe colorspace than it is the 709.

No polarizing filter, using both manual white balance, auto and outdoor position. On a clear day around mid-day, all these settings pretty much converge in terms of color rendition. The Canon HV20 has a superb reputation for color accuracy. Remember, the HV20 is just one additional data point to the many I've already accumulated for this blue issue. It's a wild stretch of the imagination to think that all of these sources are off with just the color of blue.

Using that camcorder as an example, I can play it on any of my 3 LCD computer monitors as well as a 12" pro CRT monitor and the sky blue is just that, sky blue. The deviation on every display I have in my house occurs only on the Kuro and only in CS2 (this also includes my Fujitsu plasma).
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post #6178 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techwisenyc View Post

Yes. A PS3 and HD-A2.

Great. A very simplistic tool you can use is the AVS HD 709 disc and use "flashing color bars" (basic settings chapter)/"color decoder flashing pattern" (chapter 7) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

I've found that the "color decoder flashing pattern" in chapter 7 is quirky and you will never get the yellow and white flashing bars within red to match the background. Cyan on on the green bar will will not completely match....however it will be close. Blue should not have anything blinking. Details on that pattern and how to use it can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post12390825
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post #6179 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

What about for the 5080 owners with the purple hue to them? Same with D* reset screen and D. Letterman's icon during his show.(with your reference settings)
Thanks D-Nice.

non-Elite owners need to get their sets calibrated as a color temp of "Low" yields a 6K grayscale. Using mid puts it above 7500K and is too blue.
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post #6180 of 12754
1/20/08 at 5:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeld View Post

it is the white lines : they flicker almost like a barbershop pole but not red. ihave optimum with a scientific atlantica 8300HD i have set up for wide screen and i am watching on cinema mode.

You are using Optimum mode?

Wide screen? Cinema mode? Those are not modes on the Kuros...unless you are speaking of the stretch modes. Your stretch mode should be set to "Full" for HD material.
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