CMRA's S-I-L-V-E-R solution starts here: - Page 5

Well. Construction began today and spraying begins tomorrow morning. 1x4 backer frame, used 90 degree angle irons and screws to get the frame together and Amazing Goop to glue the TWB to the 1x4. I probably should have used epoxy, but I hate working with that stuff.

1gal - Kilz 2
1 - new front attachment for the Wagner CS.
2 Quarts Behr Fuax Glaze
4oz Delta Cermacoat Silver Metallic

And a lot of hope that I don't royally screw up.

Guys and Gals, been away for awhile. Did about 7 RS Screens for a bunch of buddies and all are very happy. Now I see a new concoction and got one to do in a few weeks and unfortunately with my projector I started a boom in my subdivision and I work for beer but its kind of getting to be a pain but what the hell. Okay all I see here is you got to spray it, I have gotten real good with that roller and I mean real good, after 7 screens you should but not one of them came out bad. Can I roll this and if I did would the mix change, the reason is the basement if finished and its going on drywall and again I work for beer so no way I am spraying, and taking the risk of overspray, 110" screen. Love to see that MM and CMRA just can't stop themselves from finding the ultimate solution.

Welcome back.......again. Remember now, just like your stint before with Silver Screen, don't go off half-cocked and try something that you'll regret later!


No you cannot, and yes it would. S-I-L-V-E-R is a very metallic oriented mix, with the Mica Flakes suspended withing a almost clear medium (the Faux Glaze). If you roll, you'll increase both the surface sheen of the Glaze by smoothing it out too much, and also orient the Mica Flakes into a predominantly horizontal pattern (all laying down) resulting in too high a degree of linearity. The surface would become much like a very low grade mirror, or more rather like a reflective sign. Sorta like the old "Opti-Coat" stuff that was so very horrible.


Ya been gone sew ya dunno 'bout the Wagner Control Spray $70.00 @ Home Depot.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=799078
It's a Electric HVLP Gun, and it produces "ALMOST" no over spray. This is because the paint has to be thinned with water, and because of that, almost all of it directed into the surface sticks when it's hits. Of, you still have to mask off the area surrounding the screen, cover the floor below the screen, and place a fan in the window for some ventilation (...and still wear a mask too....) but in actuality, the amount of dust produced is not in any way to be considered unacceptable. Painting has been done in Living Rooms full of expensive furniture, Home Theaters with lots of leather chairs, and even in Restaurants. And the Beer just keeps on flowing.

It boils down to this....as it always has; If you want the absolute best results, then the Top Coats of S-I-L-V-E-R or Silver Fire.....even RS-MMaxx, will all produce such results "Mo Bedder" if sprayed. So go to a little extra trouble. Get some cheap, thin plastic and cover the landscape iffin' you'se are "scared't ". The end justifies the means.

Put another way, once you've done so, and the rest of "The Gang" sees the difference, you'll probably never have to but another 12 Pack in your lifetime.


Well, there are lot of "Ultimate Solutions" out there, and no one holds the braggin' rights to have created them all....thats fer shur.

S-I-L-V-E-R is fabulous in a dark room environment, especially with a lower lumen HD 1080i / 1080p Projector. In the "Dark" it does it all.

Silver Fire (Low Lumen - Standard - Dark - High Gain) has adjustable degrees of Ambient Light tolerance, and all produce stunning Black levels and incredibly accurate colors with a decided 3-D ism. (...and SF can be rolled...but spraying makes it fabulous...)

Brian, please consider the spraying route. It opens up all the potential that DIY Screen making has always had available. I myself twittered away at least two full years at "Rolling" before I actually observed the difference, and once that happened, there could be no going back.

Just decide to do that, and we'll / I'll be there to help all we / I can.

I got myself all the ingredients for S-I-L-V-E-R this weekend and started spraying the primer coats of 1 quart Kilz2 mixed with 12oz filtered water. After several coats (~5-6), I have a little more than a 1/2 quart of the Kilz2/Water left over (110" screen).

Before I start with the S-I-L-V-E-R mix, how smooth should the screen be after the Kilz2 coating? I'm spraying over some screen material that already had some texture to it. After 5 or so coats, I was expecting it to be smooth as glass but it looks like it kept some of the texture of the screen. Should I keep spraying the Kilz2? Maybe roll it on, sand and then final duster sprays? I'm probably being anal, but I just want to make sure I have it right before I continue with the S-I-L-V-E-R mix.

Lastly, for those who don't have the Wagner Control Spray...get it. It's so easy to use and works great. For $70, why bother with anything else.

I'd strongly suggest you roll on another 2 coats with a 1/2" nap roller, then sweep sand the surface to "Baby Butt Smooth". Spraying the Primer should ONLY be done if the original surface was itself, "Glass Smooth".

Substrates often are, or are as close enough to being so that 3 sprayed coats result in a smooth enough base for S-I-L-V-E-R. So "Anal" you are not, nor could ever be if asking "BEFORE" you continue beyond a critical step. One only obtains a "Open Orifice" status if they forge ahead under the clouds of uncertainty, or substitute prescribed elements or procedures....and then come back complaining.

In short....many of us will take the time if asked, to help provide the information and correct instructions. (...we DO "BooBoo too sometimes... ) No one can however change the hands on the Clock of Disaster one "The Bell Tolls". You can either start Mourning and bury the Dead, Resurrect 'em with a Miracle cure, or give Birth to another.

Well, the Kilz2 is on. Damned hard to tell it is there really. Very fine texture. Did 3 prgressively heavier coats, the first was almost a dust coat. I hope to do the SILVER today, but I"m rather under the weather at the moment. Time to break in the new front end. I hope.

Me and a buddy started the process this weekend too. The sprayer is spectacular, but requires some practice if you've never sprayed before. He's spraying an existing screen and I'm starting from scratch. Both are on 3/4" MDF. His looks awesome and mine looks great except for my flashing screw holes. I screwed a 2x4 cleat on to the back, through the front. I've patched and sanded and primed about 5 coats (spray and roll) and the bastards still seem to look like a dent. I guess I'll have to pile on the drywall compound and feather it out instead of just filling the holes. Pain in the ass.

Having fun learnin' tho!

MM - the Kilz2 has been thinned. Can I still use that to roll on? Or should I get more "unthinned" Kilz2?

Let it set out overnight with the lid ajar. The water will evaporate out, but not enough to worry. Try that first.

Otherwise get some new Kilz2

[quote=MississippiMan]Welcome back.......again. Remember now, just like your stint before with Silver Screen, don't go off half-cocked and try something that you'll regret later!

No I won't go off half-cocked cause I sure as hell learned my lesson bud.

A few questions.

Might be able to talk him into Gatorboard which I have used before and luckily for him there is a place nearby where he can get a 5 x 10 sheet. Does that require the Kilz? Pretty sure and its been awhile CMRA said that didn't need the basecoat when doing RS so since I don't know enough about this mix is that true here also. That way I could spray it in his garage.

Second, we are big sports guys and all of us don't want to sit in total darkness. I have can lights over my couch but the projector is in front of those lights so I dim them so your not in total darkness and the RS mix which is one of the things I liked about it did not mind that small amount of backlighting.

Is the Silver Fire a better solution if you like a bit of light, his projector is the new Panasonic not the 1080p so lums are not a problem. MM I know its better to spray but no way I am taking that chance in his basement on his wall even if he gave me a keg. My own house I might. I am gonna buy a Wagner anyway as I build furniture and could use it to spray the furniture as I have a piece I want to do in black for a TV stand upstairs.

Then spray it in the garage.

But spray.

It's on. No trim, it isn't hanging in place, but the SILVER is on. It appears I did the job correctly. I have 1/3 of a gallon or so of paint left, maybe between that and a half. Keep in mind that my screen is 85x48. Quick look with the projector and I can at least say this screen has more gain than anything I have used before. I don't have anything hooked up to the projector, and it hasn't been tuned either, but it certainly looked good and zero hot spotting.

I'll post a better review once I have my projector mounted, tuned and some material running on it.

Not Sated...

Turbo_tech posted some nice pics a page back, which I'm sure you saw. Looks like he's got a 117" screen. The one MM posted on page one looks to be 188" if my math was correct. It's one of those "proof is in the pudding" deals. I think the screenies look good. What do you think? As a reference point for you, here's my take on it. Me and a buddy have also decided to give SILVER a whirl. He bought a Wagner and this is the first time either of us have used it or any sprayer. It takes a bit of practice, but 3 or 4 primer coats will give you that practice. We'll be finishing the final 2 to 4 coats of SILVER tonight... then hang the screens and try them.

So, my suggestion, for what it's worth: Spend the $20 on paint and the $50 or so on the Wagner and see how it goes. You won't know till you try and less than $100 is a pretty cheap test.

I think I may have foobared on mine a bit. I've got stripes. I'm guessing my overlap wasn't sufficient. Quite possibly the "duster" coats were done incorrectly. MM, I don't recall, did you describe the technique? I.E. distance from the substrate, speed of spray, etc for the dusters?

It's so damn hard to see where you've sprayed. Need more lights I guess.

MM described to me in a private message that the duster coat is sprayed at 1 foot of distance at 1.5 feet per second. You overlap and do not move down (or up) until off the material.

My screen is imperfect. It had to be sprayed on a driveway. Look carefully at the "lines" though. I've noticed this screen to show the most minute shadows in a room as lines. Shadows you do not see until you move the screen, look again, and realize it was room light v. shadow.

I am working on a S-I-L-V-E-R screen and have run into a problem. I have painted 6 coats so far, 4 between 10 am and 3 pm, one about 8 pm and the last at 11 pm. I am painting in a spare room with the windows open. Well we havn't had a good rain in about a month or more and it rained for a little bit around 9 pm. I didn't really think much of it, but when I went to check to see if the paint was dry enough for the last coat I noticed that the paint was still glossy wet, and there is a sag line about 18 in long across the middle of the screen Is ther any was to fix this by sanding or am I screwed?

I finished my S-I-L-V-E-R screen this weekend. While I too have some stripes from less than perfect spraying, I didn't notice it when watching any content. Overall, I'm very pleased with the results and I've got that 'POP' back that I was looking for.

One last thing...I don't know if it's just me or my wagner, but it took me way more than the 7 duster coats (more like 15) to finish off a quart of the S-I-L-V-E-R mix. I sprayed 10-12" from the screen at around 1.5'/sec. I added 2 oz of Delta SM and 12 oz of water.

We had the same deal. 1qt of Behr, 2oz silver and around 14oz water... still seemed too thick (viscosity cup took a loooong time to drain). Had about an 8" fan out of the sprayer and ended up with half left after 8 coats (6 on mine, 2 on buddy's.... long story).

My HT is still in the build stage, and with a yard sale this past weekend and painting a bedroom, I didn't get much done, so I haven't checked the stripe situation after a couple days curing.

been reading a lot. almost ready to take the plunge. few quick questions, though.

1. would DW laminate make a better substrate than MDF? (how 'bout fashion gray laminate?)
2. if using laminate, do I still need to prime with KILZ2? or jump straight to the S-I-L-V-E-R top-coat?
3. if priming, can the KILZ2 be sprayed on? or should it be rolled so it's thicker?

thanks,

-robert

I had the opposite result with spraying. I seemed to have gone thru too much too fast. I have gone thru about 3/8 of a gallon in 5 coats. What percent are you guys spraying at? I am doing 100% and about 2ft per second. I tried bumping down to 50%, but I got a little splattering. 100% atomizes the paint way better than any other setting for me. I mixed 1/2 gallon faux + 24oz water + 4oz delta SM. If I finish out the extra 2 coats, I probably will have gone through almost all the mix. I am going to see how it looks tonight once its had a day to dry then determine if I am going to continue on with the next 2 coats or leave it as is...

I am attaching a PM reply from MM that I think may help others out here as well (MM's responses are in bold):

Well, my screen turned out to be a failure

I can see EVERY little spec of texture that the 1/4" NAP rollers caused- especially in the white and lighter colors. I'm pretty depressed about it all. All the time, effort and money seem to be wasted now. I literally spent a WEEK smoothing the wall to a glass like state and then when I rolled on the primer, it ruined it all

I have enough faux to try it over again, but I'm not sure if I should? If I do do it over, I will definitely SPRAY the primer without hesitation! It takes TOO MUCH work to get it smooth only to use a roller afterwards. I only have the scaffolding until this weekend, and a pretty busy week lined out already! I got maybe one more shot. Whatever I do though, it has to be the final solution because my spare time is slim to none now that classes are back in

I had a similar result on another application (Silver Fire HG). I started with a typical "builder beige" painted drywall with what I considered to be light to medium texture. I never noticed wall texture projecting to that surface before. So I sanded, primed, sanded, primed and sprayed a third coat of primer. Then 5 duster coats of Silver Fire. Fired up the projector and after getting my jaw of the floor realized that I could pretty much see every piece of texture on the wall. It looked HORRIBLE! Like I there was a silk screen covering the projector lens.

And it sounds like you did even more than me to address texture beforehand with the drywall compound & sanding. So MM's advice was to ROLL two relatively thick coats of the remaining mix, sand again and then spray a final coat. I rolled the two "thick" coats which is relative since the mix had been thinned so much for spraying. Fired up the projector and NO CHANGE. So I pulled the plug on Silver Fire right there and started over with a more basic rolled approach that is now in the works.

After sharing a few close up pictures of the wall at the time the project was aborted it has been suggested that there seemed to be too much surface sheen, possibly due to the ratios of metallic paints and not enough of the flattening ingredient.

Disclaimer:
It is highly possible, if not likely, that my own inexperience with surface prep, mixing paints, spraying, etc. contributed, either partially or wholly, to the eventual failure of the Silver Fire screen application. I know that plenty of people have been able to make it work for them with great results and SILVER is no different. I was, however, meticulous about following the instructions to the best of my ability and exchanged quite a few PM's with MM for guidance during the project.

Well, I started over the same day I made that last post. I sanded, and filled all the wall area smooth again with the mud. Last night I sprayed on 3 generous coats of primer. The surface is very smooth right now, and with a very light sanding, I can get it smooth as glass easily. However, I threw an image on the wall now that it is dry, and the image looks very good just on the smooth primer alone. Should I dare try to spray the silver mix one more time? I'm hesitant, because the scaffolding needs to be returned tomorrow, and I definately dont have time to start over again (which if I did, I would NOT be attempting silver a 3rd time!) I'm torn on what to do... I may go ahead and TRY it one last time just to keep myself from wondering 'what if'. But I'm expecting the worse (and hoping for the best). I just want to be able to experience that 'POP' everyone who has successfully done it has seen...

I had the same decision to make and chose to play it safe. I decided that for my situation the potential benefits of the Silver Fire application were not worth the risk of spending more time and money only to end up with disappointing results again. The silver mixes will amplify any blemish in the surface so I would have to be firmly convinced that wall texture was no longer a factor before I would try it again. And even then, it could be that the problem was not so much the texture as it was my spraying technique (too thick?) or the measuring & mising of the many ingredients.

Like you, spare time is pretty hard to come by for me these days and I do not have big chunks of hours or additional weekends to invest in this project at the expense of the other things I have neglected recently to get this done before football season. I should have started with one of the simpler approaches and worked my way up from there instead of jumping straight into one of the more complex solutions as a first timer.

So I too have reached the point where I have 3 smooth coats of Kilz2 down and really like the projected image I am getting. The primer makes a nice unity gain matte white screen and a lot of people are happy to stick with it if their room conditions and preferences suit it. I had to remind myself that even though ambient light is a factor in our room, a large majority of our viewing is at night and I tend to prefer the whiter whites than the blacker blacks so a white screen is probably going to be the choice for now. If nothing else it gives you a nice baseline to get a feel for your preferences. I might try ultra pure white with a poly topcoat to boost the gain a tad but I could see myself being very satisfied with what I currently have.

So it's a tough call. If you are pretty confident that texture is no longer a factor on your wall, and if you are pretty good with the sprayer (and you should be by now with all the practice) then I would lean toward giving it one more try with the mix you have left. But it's easier said than done when you are trying to get it done soon and have already gotten disappointing results.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

If you have not opened the can of Faux Glaze, then for a sure thing, return it and get a can of Behr Crystal Clear Matte Polyurethane #780. Apply one or two coats over the white primer for a more durable finish. This will also produce a gentle gain boost as well that does not limit viewing cone. That is the safest way to go. On the other hand if you manage to get the S-I-L-V-E-R applied correctly it would be a superior screen surface.

I completed my second failed attempt at painting the S-I-L-V-E-R mix. I can definitely see the potential of the mix if done correctly, there is more pop to the colors and the whites are brighter. I am currently viewing dark stripes across the screen, seems like I am looking through a dirty window. I guess this SM is just difficult for a beginner to get right. I guess I am going to look into something a bit easier, I can't live with the tiger stripes much longer. Any suggestions?

okay- time for an update. I had put 3 coats of the SILVER mix on and let it dry for an hour. ALL the colors seemed very crisp and vibrant. HOWEVER the WHITE looked like crap. Looked like massive hotspots when a pure white image was projected... or like for example: the snow on the mountains in lord of the rings 1 looked like dirty snow. I would have thought the snow was actually dirty, except the snow was moving with the picture, and the 'dirt' was not. It was like 12th Man described- like looking through a dirty window.

That was after 3 generous coats of kilz2 SPRAYED on an already smooth surface, and then sanded smooth again after the primer before the SILVER application. So I have changed my plan of action now to get it to where the whites look perfect, and the rest of the darker colors are just 'good'. So after 3 coats of silver 'dusted' on at 50% on the wagoner sprayer, I just put a coat of plain behr faux glaze by itself (no SM) at 100% spray. Here in about 30 minutes after it has had time to dry a little I will see how that looks. If it still looks bad, I will try 1 more coat of the plain faux glaze by itself. If it STILL looks bad after that, its getting 3-4 more coats of the kilz2 and I'm done messing with it for now. I am literally out of time. This is the last night I am going to stay up working on this nightmare!

I was a contributor to the original Ddog V.1 thread years ago. I sprayed a screen about 4 years ago. I liked it well enough I did several ...for myself and friends....

I have always felt it was more or less a standard against to measure. Nothing superior but damn good.

Now I have need to do yet a new screen, and if there is any interest am willing to do a photo thread on the build of a black frame 110" screen using Ddog V.1 ideas and adding Bias lighting.

Seems there are enough newbies to make that worthwhile.

Welp, another coat of faux alone did not cure it. That is leading me to believe my problem lies in the faux glaze itself, not the SM. A little voice in my head said to try mixing some SM with the kilz2, but I told him to shut up real quick! Its 1:15am and I've got the first coat of kilz2 on to cover up the layers upon layers of failure underneath. Should have quit while I was ahead. I guess in the future if I want to test something, I'll paint a separate piece of drywall in the garage and then put it up against the kilz2 screen. That way I'm not fighting a time limit for rented scaffolding.