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CMRA's S-I-L-V-E-R solution starts here: - Page 6

post #151 of 733
I am debating on shooting it again with some primer myself, my wife is tired of all the mess and paint smell. I just got everything cleaned up and the spare bedroom back in order. Something told me to stop after the first failure, but I wouldn't listen.
post #152 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacier991 View Post

Now I have need to do yet a new screen, and if there is any interest am willing to do a photo thread on the build of a black frame 110" screen using Ddog V.1 ideas and adding Bias lighting.

Great idea - please do!

Garry
post #153 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

I completed my second failed attempt at painting the S-I-L-V-E-R mix. I can definitely see the potential of the mix if done correctly, there is more pop to the colors and the whites are brighter. I am currently viewing dark stripes across the screen, seems like I am looking through a dirty window. I guess this SM is just difficult for a beginner to get right. I guess I am going to look into something a bit easier, I can't live with the tiger stripes much longer. Any suggestions?

Action, this is technique error.
Sorry to be so blunt. You will eliminate this with the proper application of 'duster' coats.
Please post a photo so I can see what you are up against.
post #154 of 733
I am now back to 4 coats of primer. I must say that staying up until 3:30am did me in. It will be a while before I make any sort of an attempt again at anything. IF I try silver again, it will be in the garage on a spare panel that I can put up against my now kilz2 painted wall.

Let me reiterate that I did not put the full 7 coats on as the formula calls for. I gave up after 3 since the image seemed to be getting worse from each coat to the next. After 3 I threw in the towel. My 'hail mary' was a stupid decision to just try the FG alone. I could have just as easily put 2 more coats of the SILVER on, but I thought that would have made it worse. But who knows if it really would have? I listed all the reasons I did what I did, and noone should be discouraged from trying this because of my results. HOWEVER- you need to know the extreme precision this application requires to be successful! I hope everyone else who tries this gets better results than I did.
post #155 of 733
Here is a pic of the screen, if you look closely you can see the stripes I am talking about.


The stripes are in line with the spray nozzle, so I had too much paint coming out or got too close I don't think I want to try this again so soon, I spent too much time on it already. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying this, but be sure you just dust this stuff on, and don't repeat my mistake.

I have several paints left over from projects past: Neutral gray, upw gloss, upw flat, behr pearlescent, SM Glaze, delta SM, Killz, and Killz2. Any suggestions on a quick cover up untill I can spend some more time on getting this right?
post #156 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

Here is a pic of the screen, if you look closely you can see the stripes I am talking about.


The stripes are in line with the spray nozzle, so I had too much paint coming out or got too close I don't think I want to try this again so soon, I spent too much time on it already. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying this, but be sure you just dust this stuff on, and don't repeat my mistake.

I have several paints left over from projects past: Neutral gray, upw gloss, upw flat, behr pearlescent, SM Glaze, delta SM, Killz, and Killz2. Any suggestions on a quick cover up untill I can spend some more time on getting this right?


Other than the stripes it looks like you are on your way to a top notch screen. Very nice, actually.
Dusting means setting your gun wide open for the widest fan pattern. You are 'misting' rather than painting a screen. Little by little you build up the silver concentration via several coats.

Time to take a ''mississippi breather", a few cold tall boys. Tomorrow is a brighter day. Stay the course. You'll be richly rewarded for your efforts.
post #157 of 733
I first learned to use an air paint gun painting cars. The problem with many guns for home use is a home compressor cannot supply the necessary air to fully atomize the paint.... leaving an area in the middle of the pattern where the paint is less atomized as compared to the outer edges.

A Wagner is a poor 2nd to a good air gun (I'd never paint a car with one for example) but does allow you to do a better job of atomizing the paint for typical homeowner use. Just back away a little and make sure your paint is thinned to spraying consistency... distance from substrate and speed of pass are critical... it's a dance...
post #158 of 733
I was trying to take a picture of the stripes today while watching a movie and they are not very noticeable. I may just leave the screen as is, for a while anyway. They are not very noticeable, and as Glacier991 said it is probably from the paint not being completely atomized in the center of the spray patern. I have spent a day by the pool with a few cold ones an everything seems better now, if I could just get rid of these *%$# hiccups
post #159 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

I have spent a day by the pool with a few cold ones an everything seems better now, if I could just get rid of these *%$# hiccups

Ah...DIY does indeed have its perks! Come on in, the water's fine.
post #160 of 733
Where in this thread is the formula for S-I-L-V-E-R? Could it be added to the first post?

Thanks,
Rob
post #161 of 733
I'm thinking about going with the S-I-L-V-E-R solution. I was going to pickup a white do-able board. Would i still need to prime the board kilz2?

I'm a bit unclear about this dusting method. What exactly does 50% overlap mean? does this mean that when moving the gun down, only move it down half the height of the preceding spray line? would this not leave the very top of the substrate with less coverage?
post #162 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by percept View Post

I'm thinking about going with the S-I-L-V-E-R solution. I was going to pickup a white do-able board. Would i still need to prime the board kilz2?

I'm a bit unclear about this dusting method. What exactly does 50% overlap mean? does this mean that when moving the gun down, only move it down half the height of the preceding spray line? would this not leave the very top of the substrate with less coverage?

I would probably prime first. It'll give you practice with the gun if nothing else. You start the first run at the top overspraying by 50%, so your next pass will have the top of the spray fan just tickling the top edge. Continue to overlap half of the fan (if you can see it... looooots of lights!!) as you cover 1.5 feet/sec.
post #163 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

I would probably prime first. .

Gentlemen, you ABSOLUTELY prime first. Yes, Kilz2, that's the proven one. About three normal spray coats should do it. CMRA
post #164 of 733
I received some good advice over PM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party View Post

If the Do-able Board has NO texture, and the reflective hue is absolutely Flat, then you could probably get by just fine spraying directly on top of it. The Kilz2 is intended to create a bright white Flat Hued surface that is completely smooth. I believe Do-Able fits that description.

The singular most important aspect to keep in mind is the amount of overlap. Recently, a few souls have had incident of striping occur.

To eliminate that completely is easy, simply by overlapping each row by 60-70%. When doing so, one must simply increase the speed across the board a bit more to prevent getting too much paint applied at once, and on any one level (row)

As for the Top and Bottom of the material, you always start the Top with at least 50-70% of the paint swath (Fan pattern) overlapping the outside edge. That way, when you drop the next 40% down, obviously all the surface of the material is getting the same consistent amount applied. Just finish out the Bottom row in the same manner and you'll be doing A-OK.

Here's an important "Tip"

Be absolutely sure the Tips of the Wagner are "Horizontial" to the vertical plane. The Wagner's fan Pattern is adjusted by how much (where) the Gray nozzle Tip is rotated. A "Vertical" position will achieve a horizontal fan pattern (sideways) and a "Horizontal" positioning will present a vertical Pattern. Heres something else....if you miss getting the nozzle tip set correctly by just a little, the width/height of the pattern reduces very quickly A example would be this....if your looking at the Wagner's "business End" (tip) and trying to get a vertical pattern, if the right Tip is at 2:00 or 4:00 instead of 3:00, you'll have only 50% as Tall. If that goes to a 1:30 or 4:30 position, you get a "Spot" pattern.

Just always be sure to check your pattern adjustment before each coat, (...and make sure the Tip's collar is tight....) and there should never be an issue. Lastly, don't try to regulate the paint flow via the trigger. It's a freckless endeavor. Just squeeze it to the maximum depression point, and if any adjustment needs to be made, do it via increasing your distance from the surface, or the speed across the material, or both.

Get some cheap paint, thin it until it flows freely (33% Water) and practice applying your Duster Coats. make it a Dark paint so you can easily see how/what your doing.

I've been wanting to paint the wood cupboards in my kitchen a cherry color for quite a while now, actually...so i plan on practicing with the wagner on that. I think that should be sufficient time enough for me to bond with the sprayer. I'm pretty sure i understand the overlap process now, in theory.

I'll probably prime the board...better safe than sorry, and i have some kilz2 lying around from when i painted a room a few months ago.
I plan on doing everything next weekend as ill be busy with cedia stuff this coming week. I'll try to take pictures and update my progress as i work through this. Even if i fail as others have, it will be a good source of info of what NOT to do. thanks for the help guys.
post #165 of 733
Thread Starter 
Hmmmmm. No activity on this thread in over a week. Hope you have not given up.
post #166 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Hmmmmm. No activity on this thread in over a week. Hope you have not given up.

very surprising. This was a hot topic for weeks. I really need to take some screenshots to show the PQ and to show my stripes. The worst thing about this whole experience is that it's my first try and I really can't say one way or the other if it lives up to expectations. With no comparison it's impossible to be objective.
post #167 of 733
Folks, let me start off with a big hearty THANK YOU for all the work you have put into creating the various screen paint formulae here at AVS. It simply blows my mind. And above all, having the willingness to share that info and help others apply it to their needs.

A week ago I purchased a Viewsonic PJ503D DLP projector. I know this is an entry-level projector, and perhaps I shouldn't even be playing in the same sandbox as the rest of you, but my current needs are humble.

My application will require a screen that is only 45x60 inches (a 10 foot throw). With a factory specified 1500 lumens (if it really is even close to that number), would I see a benefit using S-I-L-V-E-R HG instead of a flat white screen (UPW or Kilz2)? The room will be "light controlled" since I will only be using it at night and in almost total darkness.

My substrate is what Home Depot calls "tileboard" on the receipt, it appears to simply be tempered hardboard that has a melamine covering on one side. The melamine is a bit shiny, and has some small bumps in it, so I will cover this with 2 or 3 coats of Kilz2 primer and sand until smooth.

My current equipment:
20 gallon 5 HP 220VAC compressor.
Critter spray gun (venturi action).
HVLP spray gun (1.4 mm nozzle, I think) from Harbour Freight.
Ubiquitous roller app. equipment.

I used the Critter to spray the OSB walls of my 20x24' workshop. Used the HVLP on only one small project (a computer case).

Even with the above equipment, would you recommend I get the Wagner CS gun for applying the SHG mix (sorry for the contraction of the full name )? If this screen works out, I may be doing some for others.

Should I scuff-sand the melamine before putting on the Kilz2?
Should I roll or spray the Kilz2? If roll, should I dilute the Kilz2 and how much?

Thanks for your anticipated help!
post #168 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Hmmmmm. No activity on this thread in over a week. Hope you have not given up.

I definitely have not given up. I've been away from home so I haven't gotten a chance. Hopefully I'll be able to gather materials this coming weekend. I've actually been meaning to ask, what does it mean to "power" mix paint? would it not work if i just stir with a stick?
post #169 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by percept View Post

I definitely have not given up. I've been away from home so I haven't gotten a chance. Hopefully I'll be able to gather materials this coming weekend. I've actually been meaning to ask, what does it mean to "power" mix paint? would it not work if i just stir with a stick?

pick up a bit for your drill. Something like this or this. MississippiMan strongly suggests a "sqirrel cage" mixer, seen in his post here (the video). A stick would probably work... but now you have an excuse to buy more tools. And if you ever paint anything else, this very small investment will be well worth it.
post #170 of 733
Harpmaker,
I'm guessing CMRA will probably answer this better than I can, but here's what I think he may say (and I'll be corrected shortly if I'm wrong). I won't comment on benefit since I lack experience in that department.

The application is targeted for the Wagner and has been applied as such. I would stick with the formula, including the sprayer.

I'd sand the melamine first just to be sure, but that's just me.

I rolled a couple coats of Kilz first (undiluted), then practiced spraying 2 more coats after that. That isn't a necessary step (the rolling) and should probably be avoided. Use the primer coats as a training course on speed and overlap technique with the Wagner.

There's my $0.02... now let's see if I get change.
post #171 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Harpmaker,
I'm guessing CMRA will probably answer this better than I can, but here's what I think he may say (and I'll be corrected shortly if I'm wrong). I won't comment on benefit since I lack experience in that department.

The application is targeted for the Wagner and has been applied as such. I would stick with the formula, including the sprayer.

I'd sand the melamine first just to be sure, but that's just me.

I rolled a couple coats of Kilz first (undiluted), then practiced spraying 2 more coats after that. That isn't a necessary step (the rolling) and should probably be avoided. Use the primer coats as a training course on speed and overlap technique with the Wagner.

There's my $0.02... now let's see if I get change.

Oh no. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
Avoid rolling if at all possible. MM only rolled, I believe, because that particular screen was jumbo...like 200 inches.

Rolling, even primer, introduces the opportunity for unwanted texture.

With S-I-L-V-E-R application is EVERYTHING. Rolling is out, spraying is in.

PS: The only reason to dilute the kilz was so it would flow through the gun. If you are forced to 'roll' the primer, do not dilute. Under NO circumstances roll the silver.
post #172 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Oh no. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
Avoid rolling if at all possible. MM only rolled, I believe, because that particular screen was jumbo...like 200 inches.

Rolling, even primer, introduces the opportunity for unwanted texture.

With S-I-L-V-E-R application is EVERYTHING. Rolling is out, spraying is in.

PS: The only reason to dilute the kilz was so it would flow through the gun. If you are forced to 'roll' the primer, do not dilute. Under NO circumstances roll the silver.


In Devon's defense, he did say that rolling should be avoided...
post #173 of 733
Thanks for the responses folks!

MM sent me a PM recommending I use RS-MaxxMudd instead of S-I-L-V-E-R so I think I'll try that first.

Like most here, I'm a dedicated DIY'er (it's a gift - and a curse ) so I will probably be trying several screen mixes as time and weather allows (my shop here in middle PA is unheated); but I will definitely go with what the experts recommend first and tinker later.

I have a lot of questions, but I will try to ask them in the correct forums.
post #174 of 733
Yes, read my earlier posts in this thread. Learn from my mistakes and do NOT roll anything in this application- including the primer! Good luck
post #175 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post

Thanks for the responses folks!

MM sent me a PM recommending I use RS-MaxxMudd instead of S-I-L-V-E-R so I think I'll try that first.

.

He doesn't miss a trick, does he? Did he say why?
post #176 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

He doesn't miss a trick, does he? Did he say why?

Is it just me, or am I sensing some friction here?
Sorry, I just started reading the DIY Screens forums about a week ago and I was under the impression everybody was pretty much getting along with each other. The last thing I want to do in jump into the middle of a feud and fan the fires.

But to answer your question; I think MM recommended RS-MM because it is easier to apply and he thought I had a textured substrate (that misunderstanding was my fault). My substrate is labeled "Thrifty White (300)" and is most likely the same material as TWH.

Also, I'm getting the impression (not from MM) that my small 45x60 inch screen wouldn't really benefit much from SHG (S-I-L-V-E-R HG), and in fact RS-MM might work better because I will be using my 1500 lumen PJ in a small room that has a low white tile ceiling and very light walls so the PJ itself might provide enough "light pollution" to offset the advantages of SHG.

I like the fact that RS-MM can be sprayed over TWH without needing a separate primer.
post #177 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post

But to answer your question; I think MM recommended RS-MM because it is easier to apply and he thought I had a textured substrate (that misunderstanding was my fault). My substrate is labeled "Thrifty White (300)" and is most likely the same material as TWH.

Also, I'm getting the impression (not from MM) that my small 45x60 inch screen wouldn't really benefit much from SHG (S-I-L-V-E-R HG), and in fact RS-MM might work better because I will be using my 1500 lumen PJ in a small room that has a low white tile ceiling and very light walls so the PJ itself might provide enough "light pollution" to offset the advantages of SHG.


If you want to make a 45x60 screen 18.75 sq ft and you have a 1500 lumen projector that would be 80 Foot Lamberts of brightness on the screen. If you then consider the projector could be run in low lamp mode and optimized for video and any other things you might do to diminish some of the light, lets say you end up with half that 80 FL or 40FL you will still be about 3 times as bright as what is recommended for a film like PQ.

Given that set of facts and that paints like these metallic enriched paints IMO are best suited to stretching and getting more out of the limited lumens or large screen size some desire. Then adding to that a room with potential for lots of rebound ambient.

I would personally in your case look into something based more around ambient light control in a screen paint.
post #178 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

If you want to make a 45x60 screen 18.75 sq ft and you have a 1500 lumen projector that would be 80 Foot Lamberts of brightness on the screen. If you then consider the projector could be run in low lamp mode and optimized for video and any other things you might do to diminish some of the light, lets say you end up with half that 80 FL or 40FL you will still be about 3 times as bright as what is recommended for a film like PQ.

Given that set of facts and that paints like these metallic enriched paints IMO are best suited to stretching and getting more out of the limited lumens or large screen size some desire. Then adding to that a room with potential for lots of rebound ambient.

I would personally in your case look into something based more around ambient light control in a screen paint.

Thanks Bud. Could you please point me in the "ambient light control" paint direction? I guess I made the mistake of thinking that because my PJ is an entry-level unit it would be a bit under-powered; it seems that's not one of it's short-comings.
post #179 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpmaker View Post

Is it just me, or am I sensing some friction here?
.

Naw. MM and I have been AVS sparing partners since 2003. You newbies have some AVS history to catch up on.
post #180 of 733
Being an average Joe, my main goal is to get the maximum performance with as little work as possible.

The language you DIY-elites talk in is really foreign to us that are just entering into this domain.


It would be really nice if you guys gave us a quick, easy, detailed guide on how to do this process.


I have a Greywolf II screen- and if this can produce 80% of the results with a broader viewing angle, I'll be interested.


I live in the Seattle area so if anyone wants to do a shoot-out, your more than welcome.
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