CMRA's S-I-L-V-E-R solution starts here: - Page 14

Wow! Great dissertation, MM, your personal experiences add a lot of insight into the trial and tribulations of DIY screen development.

Well, I've decided to attempt a 48x96 S-I-L-V-E-R screen (masked accordingly for dual 1.85/2.35 use). Already had the Behr Faux Glaze... picked up a couple of sheets of TWH at HD yesterday, 4 oz. of Delta Metallic Silver #02603 (is this enough?), a gallon of Kilz2, and a Wagner Control Sprayer at Menards for $39 (on sale for $54 - $15 rebate)!

A question about the TWH: The stuff I got has some occasional slight (< 1/8" diameter) surface bumps. Should these be sanded smooth, or are they a non-issue?

I'm psyched!

Now... to find the time.

I'd not use any such TWH Board that has blemishes that need sanding down. Somewhere in the stack has to be some unblemished sheets. They are supposed to be slick & smooth.

The TWH's laminated Vinyl coating is fine by itself to spray S-I-L-V-E-R on, following the proper "Dusting" procedure. The first "dusted" coat acts like the primer-bonder for all subsequent coats, eliminating the need for the Kilz-2.

If you sand down those bumps, (...and it won't be all that easy...you'll abrade a lot of surface that doesn't need smoothing as well...) then yes, the Kilz-2 will be absolutely necessary. In fact, you'll most likely need to do 2 initial coats of Kilz, then lightly sand and coat one more time.

Again, the TWH is as good or better than Kilz-2 as a reflective white base. IMO is a LOT better...because it eliminates a step that in and of itself might have/develop issues on it's own, and provides an initial "glass smooth" surface for the S-I-L-V-E-R, assuring..or at least helping t assure a ultra smooth final finish.

Returning those sheets for unblemished ones may seem a PITA, but vastly preferable to winding up with a few noticeable spots, or even having to go through all the extra fuss involved with priming on a coat at least as smooth in the end as the final S-I-L-V-E-R coat must be.

I don't think so. As I understand it, Do-able makes a nice screen by itself; the TWH (Thrifty White Hardboard) is too shiny and would hotshot quite badly if used without a coating of some type.

Hi, all. I got sidetracked by life, and had to put my DIY screen aspirations on hold. But hopefully I can now proceed.


I looked over the TWH that I'd bought again, and feel I may have overstated the surface imperfections. Truth is, they're not that easy to pick out, short of angling a light shallow enough to rake them. Perhaps, for some reason, the lighting at Home Depot similarly exaggerated them. In any case, I'm thinking it should be fine.


So, just to be absolutely clear, all I need to do is mix Delta Silver Metallic and Behr Faux Glaze at 1:20, dilute that at 4:1 with distilled water, and spray 6 to 7 duster coats of it with a Wagner Control Spray over the TWH, and I'm done?

That's eaasy!.... ("Ask me the questions, bridgekeeper, I'm not afraid." )

OK, assssuming I've got that right, another question: The 1/8" TWH seems somewhat flimsy... what do people usually use for a substrate to keep it from flexing/warping/bowing on the wall?

[edit]
A couple more questions:

I notice that the TWH I bought has a fair amount of sheen to it. Is that normal? Are there any downsides to this as opposed to using a surface painted with flat primer (increased risk of hotspotting, etc.)?

and...

You'd mentioned elsewhere the possibility of adding lampblack to the mix. Did you ever try that, and what effects did it have?

And how do you join two pieces together? The TWH is not tall enough for my screen, so I'll need 2....
How can I get a seamless transition?

...and I'm just chopped liver?

CMRA,
Drywall screens over 12' being my specialty, I'm sulking that I'm not first up on your list. Not even Liverwurst even.

Wait until you find out whats in your BBQ next time.


DigitalMonkeyMan,

If your Screen's height is under 54", there is readily available Gray Wall that comes in 54" x -whatever- sizes (12' max.) So there will be no seam for a screen up to 107" diagonal.

If your desired screen is "taller" than 51" "Inside image height", you will need two peices and creating a seamless joint is not impossible....it's not even hard....you just have to do it right.

Perfect! My screen is exactly 54" .
And where would one go to aquire the above mentioned Gray Wall?
Big Blue?
Big Orange?
Medium Sized Helpful Red?

Thanks!!

Hi, MississippiMan... just wondering if you had any thoughts on my earlier post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14719422

Thanks!

I need 54" by 8' so it may help, but that 'sliver' of S-I-L-V-E-R I would need would be awkward at best to join. Don't you think?

This Gray Wall would be an ideal fit for me, I just need to know where to get it? A google search came up empty...

Oh Bullocks!

I meant to say "Dry Wall"...not "Gray Wall".

54" Drywall does have a 1.5" "Tapered Factory Edge" on one "long edge" to allow for the "filling and smoothing" of two such edges with Tape/ Mud. That does limit you to 52" height, but that is substancially more height than 48", though it may not seem so.

Simply frame the screen to 52' x 92" for a perfect 16:9 106" Screen

Sooooooo sorry!

I missed the posted questions below that were on the "linked to' posting above.


TWH's gloss is only a good thing....not a bad thing. It not only provides a more "tight" and reflective surface, if it's unblemished it provides a "glass smooth" suface to spray on an exceedingly smooth coat.

Lamp Black? Fergitabowdit.


BobRob,

Your post is a bit old. Do you have any updates to offer us all?

Like a new lamp!

Sprayed Delta Silver with Faux Glaze on Kilz2 primed board. Compared to plain white board, this makes pictures look like my projector got a new lamp. Re-gained bright color, re-gained contrast, re-gained pop. Thanks to folks who contributed their experience and advice, lots of thanks to you.

Kinda gives you the "willies" thinking about what a New Bulb would do with S-I-L-V-E-R eh?

btw......What PJ?

[quote] Home Depot, in the Hard Board Dept. Check your piece for scratches (most are OK for painting on) It's great stuff at $11.00 for a 4' x 8' x 1/4" glassy smooth Vinyl Laminated substrate. [quote]

TWH, all I could find in a check of 4 different Big Orange and 2 different Big Blue was TBH (Thrifty Brown Hardboard)

Can I dust some extra coats on it and achieve the same results as TWH?

Extra coats of Kilz2 perhaps?

If not, I guess I'll just have to expand my search radius!

I personally use TWH "without" any primer, because of it's bright, white surface which makes for a great-smooth under laying reflective substrate. All that is needed is a proper "Duster Coat" to set up the surface for subsequent heavier coats.

However I too have sometimes found TWH isn't always there where and when I need it, so I too will use TBH with that ubiquitous coating of Kilz-2. To make certain the Kilz-2 itself does not detract from the already Glassy Smooth surface that even te TBH has, the "2" layers of Kilz-2 (diluted w/30% water) should also be "Dusted on". If you Roll it on, be certain to lightly sand it smooth with a fine Grit Sanding Block.

Folks,

I finally decided to paint my 106" Kilz 2 screen over drywall that I have been using for 2 years. I decided to go with S-I-L-V-E-R and I'm actually about to do my 5th duster coat. Sorry if this has been covered before but how much will I actually use. I started with a 1/2 gallon of the glaze, 4 oz of delta silver metallic and about 24oz of distilled water. I was paranoid of putting it on too thick so my coats are very light. It looks as though I have hardly put a dent in the paint bucket. Also, should the screen color change much from the Kilz white when I am done? It looks almost identical from 10' away (still very white). Of course, up close it is looking very "pearl".

Ryan

I'd say your doing everything "Right On". On a 106" screen you'll wind up having at least 1/2 if not slightly more of your S-I-L-V-E-R Mix left. Share it with a lustful Peer.
Shoot, when I did a 16' x 9' S-I-L-V-E-R on drywall, I only used 3 quarts out of a Gallon Mix.


When finished it should look "Silvery White" If by "Pearl" your screen has any cast of Yellow that is not due to ambient light reflections from the Room's Incandescent lighting, THEN YOUR 2 YEAR OLD kILZ 2 (...SORRY, cAP ATTACK...) has yellowed. The S-I-L-V-E-R will enhance the under laying surface's reflective quotient, and that includes any color that is present.

But hopefully by "Pearl" you mean "Pearlecent quality" and your simply referring to the visible Silver metallic particles.

Stop Spraying at no more than 8 coats. 7 is usually fine if the coats were just normally thin.

MM,

No it isn't yellow in the least. It just doesn't look as silver as I expected it to on the Kilz. It looks like a very pure white pearlescent color. I was hoping for a little help with black levels by achieving a more silver finish but I know that this mix isn't really designed with blacks in mind. It may be too soon to give a full review but it has made enough of a change that clearly I will need to recalibrate. The colors are jumpin' off the screen and the white levels are through the roof (may need to get those a bit under control actually, a good problem to have). My projector (Sanyo Z4) has never produced whites quite like this. So far I am very happy. I ended up stopping at 7 coats and I used less than a quart in the end. Maybe I'll use the leftovers to do a bit of experimenting and thus contribute to this forum as opposed to just lurking and benefiting from everyone elses hard work. Thanks for the help.

Ryan

Glad you "cleared" that up! You might want to try adding one more coat though, or two rapidly applied "Dusters" that have a 60% to 70% Row overlap. getting enough S-I-L-V-E-R on the projected surface is an important as not getting too much.

S-I-L-V-E-R does purport to increase Blacks!

If there is enough of it on the screen surface, S-I-L-V-E-R should indeed ramp up the depth of your Blacks, and increase shadow detail as well. You will please let me know if it does not!

One great aspect about S-I-L-V-E-R is that you can feel good about running your PJ on Economy, therein further improving Blacks, but still maintaining great screen dynamics.

When you calibrate do it first in Econo, but leave the PJ's Iris open. Save that Profile, than do the same process at Normal lamp with the Iris adjusted, and using a darker "Cinema" mode.

In one manner or the other your going to hone in on a spectacular image that will leave nothing to fret about.

MM,

Well....I already tore down the plastic and tape. I think I may live with it for a few days and see. In looking back at the pics of the large screen you did back on the first page of this thread it does look as though you were a little more generous with your coats. I probably used more like 24 ounces total. I really would like a little boost (drop?) in black level so I will probably come back in a few days and add 1 or 2 more coats. What should I look for to avoid putting on too much?

Thanks again,
Ryan

Well it's tough to say without seeing your screen's appearance.

upon close scrutiny, the surface should appear to have a 'filled in' appearance where there is little if any spacing between the SM particles. The Glaze/Silver mix is one that after several layers, builds up enough overlapping layers of material that the layered particles overlap the spacing and give a seemingly uniform appearance.

But obviously you do not want an actual "Flat Layer" of pure Silver Metallic for that would hot spot. I suggested 2 more rapid "Duster coats" because you would be laying down a minimum amount more that would only serve to add a bit more "filler" for an increased effect.

It's always hard at first to judge the blacks because the rest of the screen just really "PoPs' so much. I suggest you get a Movie that is dismally dark (Underworld series....Sin City) and watch it with the Lights at "blackout" and determine as to if the Blacks are 'Dark Gray" or really "Black".

Another test is to put up a "Projected White" screen and then get up close and personal to the surface. (2') If you can see an obvious spacing between the Silver Metallic, something that looks a bit like you old Girlfriend's Freckles, then hit it again.

I think your obviously real close. S-I-L-V-E-R is an application that is designed to augment Colors and Blacks both. Both are well know attributes of Silver Metallic. It will sharpen a projected image as well. But it doesn't deeply enhance Blacks that are not in someway present to a point in the image.....that would be akin to making more out of nothing. In this case it should be "making less look like more".

Remember to try several different approaches to obtaining deeper Black levels via your PJ's own adjustments. S-I-L-V-E-R should allow you to maintain a higher degree of perceived gain even when the PJ's light output is reduced via calibration and Iris adjustment. It well may be a case were "If it ain't broke....."

Let me know if you need instructions as to how to take meaningful Screen Shots. With S-I-L-V-E-R it can be hard because the screen's output can easily overdrive the metering of the camera when there is such a huge difference between the light coming from the screen and the Room's dark surroundings. Also the increased contrast within the screen adds to that effect. I always get as far away as I can, then use Zoom to frame the screen closer, thereby using the Camera's lens as a "attenuator' of incoming light.

CMRA,

Sanyo Z4, 106" screen. I have always been a bit disappointed with the black levels of this projector, although it is not much worse if any I suppose, than the competitors of its day. My previous projector was a Sony 1251 CRT so that has always been my reference for blacks. I wanted to go with a light to medium gray but feared for the lumen output of the Sanyo. The S-I-L-V-E-R seemed like a safe choice as it was purported to help a bit with the blacks but make colors really pop. Well....the colors are really popping and I am very happy with the results. I think the next step is to try to cut down on the ceiling reflections as this is quite obviously a problem. The ceiling really lights up when there is any brightness on the screen and in turn it is washing out the darker colors. My walls are a very dark brown so that is not an issue. I approached the wife about installing flat plywood panels covered in black velveteen on the ceiling directly in front of the projector about 3' out and maybe 12' wide. They would be held in place with neodymium magnets as I have access from behind the screen up into the ceiling joists. A bunch of magnets placed just right should be able to hold up the pasnels through the drywall, at least that is my hope. She likes it because they can easily be taken down when "she" sees fit. Maybe I will live with the screen for a while, get a true sense of where it is at and the improvements it has made and then proceed if deemed necessary.

Ryan