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CMRA's S-I-L-V-E-R solution starts here: - Page 3

post #61 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Not so fast. There's innies and outties. Said another way, indoor spraying will present limitations due to the physical dimensions of your room. Outdoors on a ladder...the sky is the limit. Which is 'easiest' still applies.


Sorry. We gotta agree to disagree on that issue. Everyone doesn't live in San Diego. Nor does everyone have a 14' ladder, which is exactly what you'd need to safely paint at a 12' height.

And tell me how it could be easier to have to balance on a ladder, lean outward and maintain a steady hand, move up or down or sideways with consistancy, change the level your at with every 2nd row, and maintain the correct distance and speed throughout the process. You just cannot, because such a method involves far to many variables and potential mishaps.

As far as room limitations, that's not to be as big a concern for the two following reasons.

1. If the room can hold a 10' wide screen, the screen can be painted in that room.

2. Using the Wagner presents far less of a concern about over spray. There is still a need to employ the common sense approach and ventilate and cover, but the lessened time frame involving the period of which the Gun is actively being used, combined with how it applies the paint to the surface "almost" negates those considerations.


And "Oh Boy"!!! Suggesting to anybody that painting anything such as S-I-L-V-E-R outside, what with it's longer drying times and the risk of flying debri becoming embedded, and the Boo Boo's one can create trying to remove even a speck of dust or wild hair, is just asking for someone to come back later with a real complaint about taking such advice.

We can't have that!!!! EVERYONE deserves to "Knock one out of the Park". far better that than getting your suggestions "knocked upside yer head", eh?
post #62 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Sorry. We gotta agree to disagree on that issue. Everyone doesn't live in San Diego. Nor does everyone have a 14' ladder, which is exactly what you'd need to safely paint at a 12' height.


Coming from the man who fell from a ladder and shattered his arm, this may indeed be good counsel.
For the record, 120 inches is 10 feet and I've done quite well with an 8 foot ladder.

Both still applies. The painter must decide which way is best for him. Nobody ever said DIY didn't come without some risk.
post #63 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Coming from the man who fell from a ladder and shattered his arm, this may indeed be good counsel.
For the record, 120 inches is 10 feet and I've done quite well with an 8 foot ladder.

Both still applies. The painter must decide which way is best for him. Nobody ever said DIY didn't come without some risk.

......and I only fell 5'

But do you paint such a screen while it rests on the ground? No, you should have it elevated at least 2'.

Anyway, my comments about reducing the number of passes, and hence the lines and potential banding issues are the most important things to consider. What you and I might do naturally might be quite vexing to the newbee, but in one thing your right on.....,

I t'aint never gonna suggest that some one paint a 10' screen "on the vertical" using a ladder........outside. Nosir.

Go bump a thread.
post #64 of 733
Thread Starter 
It's washable !

I needed a hand moving the screen about the other day. My helper's grubby hands left their mark in a big way. A little diluted "oil eater" on a terry cloth and water wipe rinse,2x to remove the chemical, and just like new. Undetectable.
post #65 of 733
Wow great info guys...I'm about to make a new screen as my first attempt didn't turn out so well...Would this mix work on the glossy white hardboard from HD..

1/2 gallon Behr Faux Glaze 4 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic from Michael's Arts & Crafts
(Substituted for the darker Behr Silver Metallic) 20 oz. Filtered Water

And if so would I still need the undercoating of kiltz..I'm going to buy the HVLP Wagner today.
Also this is a room with no outside light issues at all, but a fair amount of light "bouncing" off the screen to the other lighter colored walls in the room.. I plan on panting the whole room a darker flat brown (hershey kiss) color with black ceiling tiles..
Oh and it's a hd1000u in a 18'wx26'lx8'h room seating at 20'...So how big ya think I can realistically go..

Thanks in advance..You guys are alot more helpfull and civil than the motorcycle boards i'm used to..
post #66 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Tech View Post

Wow great info guys...I'm about to make a new screen as my first attempt didn't turn out so well...Would this mix work on the glossy white hardboard from HD..

Yes.....if done properly

Quote:


1/2 gallon Behr Faux Glaze 4 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic from Michael's Arts & Crafts
(Substituted for the darker Behr Silver Metallic) 24 oz. Filtered Water

That's it, but the water goes up to 24 oz. minimum

Quote:


And if so would I still need the undercoating of kiltz..I'm going to buy the HVLP Wagner today.

The Thrifty White has a very slick, semi-Gloss (...almost Gloss) surface. S-I-L-V-E-R is based on having a bright white flat surface with the kind of adhesion a "primed" surface provides to help the mix adhere to it.

I do really think the surface can be painted directly, but the real issue would be the change up from "Flat" to "Glossy". That might introduce Hot Spotting if the normal amount of S-I-L-V-E-R is applied, and if additional S-I-L-V-E-R is used to effect more coverage, then the issues of having too much Silver metallic concentrated at the screen surface (in relationship to the amount of Faux Glaze) might create viewing cone issues as well as /or increased hot spotting.

It's as of yet a unknown situation, but common sense reasoning (...yeah, that's gotta go hand in hand with screen building....) suggests that once you keep increasing the degree of reflectivity, you also increase the likelihood of introducing
unwanted traits known to plague ultra high gain screens.

A flat primed surface is known value, providing both a bright white reflective base, as well as considerably more "tack" for a thin, wet mix to grab hold of.

But experimentation in this case isn't fraught with potential misgivings because if your using Thrifty White @ 48" x 85" (16:9) and your mixing up the S-I-L-V-E-R as suggested, the almost 3/4 gallons you get will allow you to paint the S-I-L-V-E-R directly onto the TW, and if needed later, to do it all again over a coating of Kilz2 that 'erases" the original surface.


Quote:


Also this is a room with no outside light issues at all, but a fair amount of light "bouncing" off the screen to the other lighter colored walls in the room.. I plan on panting the whole room a darker flat brown (hershey kiss) color with black ceiling tiles..

Oh, then your cool.

Quote:


Oh and it's a hd1000u in a 18'wx26'lx8'h room seating at 20'...So how big ya think I can realistically go..

If you can paint the wall, you could go as big as 146" x 82" (168" diagonal = 14') Considering a throw distance of 22' to 23' to place the PJ behind you, you'd still have yourself a Foot lambert measurement of 14 fl at that size.

Anything less will only get you a brighter image. Until you bump up to a 1080p unit, I'd not advise you going any larger.

Quote:


Thanks in advance..You guys are alot more helpful and civil than the motorcycle boards I'm used to..

Imagine that?!

If you say so.
post #67 of 733
Thanks alot MM...I can't paint the screen wall because of a electrical and plumbing panel off to the side of the viewing area...So a removable hanging screen is my only option...Being that all (most) substraights are 4x8, is my next problem..

I've been reading your posts on the huge drywall screen you built, soooo I "think" that will be my best option..Weight and hanging are a concern..French cleat back-cut into the top runner of the frame was the best (in my head solution) I can think of...Or possibly fixed "hanging bosses" screwed into the wall in between three stud runs..

Thanks again..Any opinions/suggestion I'll take with a open mind..This is my first attempt at a HT, but I would like to "do it right" the first time if thats ever possible..Are the advatages of the above paint formula that much greater in a totaly dark room, say compared to just white/gray with a polly top coat?

And as far as the bike things go...Racers don't generally help others go faster, just offer useless wit...
post #68 of 733
2"x3" Aluminum Studs and Channels, set to 8" O.C., surfaced with 1/4' drywall, all "Joints between studs backed with 6" wide Plywood strips, will let you create the screen you want, and it will be a two man job to move it up and down off a hanging system on the wall. The one I made took 5 guys to control it, and we still sprung a joint or two in a couple places..

If getting a nice finish on the Drywall then by moving it, the possibility of causing a crack at a joint is a concern, build the frame, skin it, hang it, then finish the screw heads and joints and paint it "in place". That way, it's only going to be at risk when it has to come down.

But I do believe that at 8" O.C. framing, 1/4" drywall, and deadwood spanning all joints, you should have it all together, and it be quite movable.
post #69 of 733
Thanks for all the suggestions MM..I think I'm going to experiment (mess up) with a 4x8 sheet of the TWH, primed and sprayed with the S-I-L-V-E-R first..See how it turns out, then when time permits commit to a larger project...

I realize the answer to this question is probably "cause I_know when ".. But how can I tell when I have enough coverage of the glaze mix...Skill, knowledge, dumb luck? ....I'm sure erroring on the side of less is more, and you can always add rather than remove is the best option..Any particular shade, hue, number of beers consumed...Cause I have lots o beer...

Thanks..
post #70 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Tech View Post

Thanks for all the suggestions MM..I think I'm going to experiment (mess up) with a 4x8 sheet of the TWH, primed and sprayed with the S-I-L-V-E-R first..See how it turns out, then when time permits commit to a larger project...

A wise course to take. Someone later is going to get a really nice screen when you move up to.

Quote:


I realize the answer to this question is probably "cause I_know when ".. But how can I tell when I have enough coverage of the glaze mix...Skill, knowledge, dumb luck? ....I'm sure erring on the side of less is more, and you can always add rather than remove is the best option..Any particular shade, hue, number of beers consumed...Cause I have lots o beer...

Thanks..

If the praying procedure is followed as outlined, with your maintaining the required speed, distance, and overlap....then 7-8 coats is the target to shoot for.

NUBEES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CONSUME "A" BEER BETWEEN COATS UNTIL THE LAST 2-3 COATS, WHEN DRYING TIME INCREASES TO OVER 1-1/2 HOURS BETWEEN EACH SPRAY SESSION. THEN IT"S TWO PER BREAK MAXIMUM.*
(*...two beers "in the gut" at the start is standard operating procedure.)

......otherwise, it's about 2 per coat, 45 minutes between coats, and those last 2-3 coats? I use a damn fan and keep my Beers to Coat Drying ratio the same.
post #71 of 733
^^^^^ You crack me up man, If we ever get a chance to meet. Beers on me..LOL.
post #72 of 733
Your in ATLANTA?

Why, You just might get tapped for that offersooner than you think, and lemmie tell sumptin' to ya. I can consume enough "good beer" that from there I could float back home to Mississippi on a river of self generated, post processed Brewski.

I'm a grabbin' a Rain Check.
post #73 of 733
After reading this thread I have decided to try a silver screen myself. I just want to thank cmra and mississippi for thier work on silver. The Substrate is going to be 2 doable boards with kilz primer over the top the screen is going to be 110 inches in a 4:3 setup. I will post some photos after i get it done. Luckily I have a friend who is handy with drywall mud so I can make a seamless screen.
post #74 of 733
Well, be sure to tell him the Man from Mississippi sez to grind/sand down the butting edges of the Doable so as to create a channel (similar to Drywall's "Factory Edge") that can be filled in and up to the surface.. This allows for a much easier job of hiding the seam, with far less Floating required. ALSO......after grinding but before taping and mudding, a thin coating of primer on the area to be mudded will allow the Tape/Mud better adhesion.
post #75 of 733
While I was at HD last night looking at the TWH thinking about ways to "seam" multiple pieces for the next project.. I thought good old automotive Bondo might do a good job..Since the white coating of the board is a plastic type coating the bondo "should" stick quite well and sand down to a glass finsh if done right..But I could just be stuck on stupid this morning as well...
post #76 of 733
It will still require a "Float" that goes out at least 6" to 8" out from the seam on both sides
post #77 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It will still require a "Float" that goes out at least 6" to 8" out from the seam on both sides

Oh ya no question any seaming will require a large blending area..My whole thought was the lighter weight of the TWH, more flex resistance,ect vs drywall and a plastic on plastic filling media.. That stuff will stick to cardbord, and fingers and damn near anything LOL.. I'm a auto tech buy trade, so bondo, bleeding knuckles and DA sanders are more "near and dear" to my heart..

That projects way off though, so practicing on some scrap at work may be in order.
post #78 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Tech View Post

^^^^^ You crack me up man, If we ever get a chance to meet. Beers on me..LOL.

You have no idea what you are in for. Those 'empties' that feed the homeless in Mississippi...just where do you think they come from? Heineken has already claimed they will stop distribution to the state if MM quits, leaves, or dies.
post #79 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

You have no idea what you are in for. Those 'empties' that feed the homeless in Mississippi...just where do you think they come from? Heineken has already claimed they will stop distribution to the state if MM quits, leaves, or dies.

Heineken I thought MM said he drank alot of GOOD beer...

I got a change of build plans of my screen, found a lumber distributor in town that stocks 5'x10'x1/2" mdf.....All my size/placement and assembly woes have been given a loud, reaching for the sky AMEN!!!.....Shooting for a 114"..Any last tips on applying the silver mix dusting coats would be great..

How far from screen....10-12"
Feet per sec movement, I've been practicing my side-step shuffle..
Gun trigger setting 0-100% spray..

Thanks a lot..
post #80 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Tech View Post

Heineken I thought MM said he drank alot of GOOD beer...

Heineken is my "Make do" I can still swallow.
Anchor Steam....Stella Atoris....Beck's Dark...Modelo Dark....anything BCortez whips up.....and my all time favorite.....Duve Belgan Ale. Of course, I have also consumes some "Arrogant Bast-ard Ale too.
Nasty stuff that.

Quote:


I got a change of build plans of my screen, found a lumber distributor in town that stocks 5'x10'x1/2" mdf.....All my size/placement and assembly woes have been given a loud, reaching for the sky AMEN!!!.....Shooting for a 114"..Any last tips on applying the silver mix dusting coats would be great..

Be sure to "ring" that 1/2" drop-off with some additional 1/2" MDF to avoid the drop -off creating a vortex that will prevent the edges from getting a equal and consistent lay at the edges.

Quote:


How far from screen....10-12"

12". your gonna vary a bit, but if you maintain a 2" + / - distance you'll be OK. Maintaining a constant speed and constant "height / level is more important.

Quote:


Feet per sec movement, I've been practicing my side-step shuffle..

2' per second for a "Duster"...1' to 1.5' per second for a normal coating. Keep the electrical cord held high above waist level, out from your side, and to your side opposite your spraying hand lest you shuffle your way into a heap.

Quote:


Gun trigger setting 0-100% spray..

I myself do not try to adjust my output by "Trigger Pressure" alone to vary the amount of paint applied....that is just to imprecise for me. Just mash down on the trigger and adjust via speed and distance.

Thanks a lot..[/quote]
post #81 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

It's washable !

I needed a hand moving the screen about the other day. My helper's grubby hands left their mark in a big way. A little diluted "oil eater" on a terry cloth and water wipe rinse,2x to remove the chemical, and just like new. Undetectable.

I'm looking for something for our backyard outdoor neighborhood theatre. I've got a frame built out of 1.5" PVC pipe, and we are currently using some of that Coated Celtic Cloth. But putting it up and taking it down is leaving marks on the CCC.

I was thinking about painting it, or a canvas dropcloth, or blackout. Would SILVER work for me (since it's "washable")?
post #82 of 733
MM..Thanks for the Pm on my questions...I'm in between my and second and third primer coats now taking a breather..Don't know how you guys can paint those giant screens you have built, this ones "only" 61"by 107". And its wearing me out...That wagner will throw some paint once you get the mixture right...I was amazed at the spray it puts out when you run soapy water through it....You could wash the car with the thing... Very nice spray control to, you can paint your name "cleanly".. Cant wait to see the finished product..
post #83 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post


I was thinking about painting it, or a canvas dropcloth, or blackout. Would SILVER work for me (since it's "washable")?

I believe so, at least certainly better than any standard Acrylic Latex. Plus it a very thin coating. The only real concern is how "White" and opaque your material is. Much of S-I-L-V-E-Rs performance comes from the coating being both reflective, yet allowing the underlaying "Primed with Kilz2" white surface to contribute to the gain as well.

For an outdoor application though, I'm betting that it would do alright if the material was something opaque like BO Cloth.

.........and WELCOME BACK, MR.P!
post #84 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Tech View Post

MM..Thanks for the Pm on my questions...I'm in between my and second and third primer coats now taking a breather..Don't know how you guys can paint those giant screens you have built, this ones "only" 61"by 107". And its wearing me out...

Don't even think my poor, weak, just mended right arm doesn't cry out for mercy when traversing a 16' wide span.

I'm good for about 3 rows and then I must take a short pause that 'refreshes'.

Burp once, and I'm good to go.

PS...be sure to post up your experience onto the "Wagner" threads if you can, and are of a mind to make the effort. Mucho Gracious.
post #85 of 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Well, be sure to tell him the Man from Mississippi sez to grind/sand down the butting edges of the Doable so as to create a channel (similar to Drywall's "Factory Edge") that can be filled in and up to the surface.. This allows for a much easier job of hiding the seam, with far less Floating required. ALSO......after grinding but before taping and mudding, a thin coating of primer on the area to be mudded will allow the Tape/Mud better adhesion.


THanks for the advice mississippi I will be starting the project today so we shall see how it goes
post #86 of 733
Holy crap, I bit off a project...In the middle of making my screen the wife comes in and says "are you going to paint the rest of the room to"...
So between screen, four walls 18X26(that were white) and 42 2X4 ceiling tiles with tracks I've used 10 gallons of paint in the last 36 hours....Glad I'm at work now so I can rest..

The scren "looks" like it turned out great, I won't be able to shoot a image till mid week though, after the tornado clears from my bastment...

The Wagner is a great tool, very forgiving and easy to figure out once you get mixtures right..It could easly cost twice as much for the job it does..

Anyone who wants to try spraying, I relised quickly I didn't have enough light to see the spray pattern very well... So off to a trip to wally world..30 bucks for three, four foot floresnt shop fixtures placed, top and both sides are a must...
post #87 of 733
Sorry to be a pain in the ass folks. I was convinced to try SF as my first attempt, but the mixing of a dozen or so ounces here and mls there kinda had me worried. The S-I-L... seems a whole lot simpler... if the formula was 100% clear. Maybe I'm a moron, but I've seen it posted a couple places with slight variations in Silver Metalic and water variables. Perhaps CMRA could edit his initial post and keep the forumula current as the first thing a poor noob like me sees.

But, I digress. As I see it from reading dozens of posts and wandering links, I need this:

1/2 gal Behr Faux Glaze
4oz Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic
24oz distilled water

Mix the whole shebang and spray it in 7 or so dusting coats over Kilz2 or Behr outdoor primer (2 or 3 coats of said primer)

Again, I appologize for the repetitive nature of my request. I just hate doing things wrong and having to do it again. So, is this still the magic mix?
post #88 of 733
Yep.
post #89 of 733
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Sorry to be a pain in the ass folks. I was convinced to try SF as my first attempt, but the mixing of a dozen or so ounces here and mls there kinda had me worried. The S-I-L... seems a whole lot simpler... if the formula was 100% clear. Maybe I'm a moron, but I've seen it posted a couple places with slight variations in Silver Metalic and water variables. Perhaps CMRA could edit his initial post and keep the forumula current as the first thing a poor noob like me sees.

But, I digress. As I see it from reading dozens of posts and wandering links, I need this:

1/2 gal Behr Faux Glaze
4oz Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic
24oz distilled water

Mix the whole shebang and spray it in 7 or so dusting coats over Kilz2 or Behr outdoor primer (2 or 3 coats of said primer)

Again, I appologize for the repetitive nature of my request. I just hate doing things wrong and having to do it again. So, is this still the magic mix?

For duster coats only. Original formulation:19 parts Faux Glaze, 1 Part Silver Metallic. Mix in 20-25% distilled water for proper viscosity dilution.
post #90 of 733
Wow!!!, wow, wow. ....Holly hell this thing looks good..Got my HT, 90% built and the a/v equipment set back up last night..Since this is my first Ht set-up everyone must take my opinion with a grain of salt, or S-I-L-V-E-R if you like ..

On just a SD upscaling dvd player with a H1000 shooting 117" the image looks amazing, very "deep" looking with vibrant colors, BRIGHT whites, BLACK blacks, and no viewing cone issue at all..

You can put you back on the screen wall and look down the horizontal of the screen and see the whole image, all be it blurry from such a close distance though...

Movies with, say flashbulbs or bright lights at night, (headlights) look very life like..Like a sparkler at night..With NO hotspoting..

The wagner makes this prosses sooooo easy with the right degree of practice and patience.... Hell if I can do it anyone can..

I posts up pics when I'm done with the trimming and get the ceiling tiles back in.. Thats another thing the wagner dose a great job of spraying quickly as well..

Thanks allot CMRA and MM for bringing this "easy", (cause it really is, with the right tools) application to the masses...
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