Originally Posted by narhic_fd
Thanks mississippiman. Look forward to your response. Please, I hope your not typing this while your driving on the freeway!!!??? I don't want to be responsible for the death of our needed member of the AVS forum!! LOL.
It would be my fault....no one else's. But I do use "Speak to Text " 99% of the time, and I don't try to edit out the nonsensical translations while driving. (...wait...did I just see a Pig go flying past my window? ) Really though...Boys & Girls...think of the safety of others if not your own.
It's really all just a case where I don't want to keep Posters waiting if it can be avoided, especially those on the cusp of getting started. I really hate seeing post where it's stated, "I'm getting ready to mix / paint and I thought I'd check back to ask for last minute guidance."
...or worse..." I guess I should have waited for a response."
Going to the trouble of responding asap is much better than having to exert damage control. So...I jump as fast as possible when someone has a plea.
So now...... here's both a lesson and explanation about the history of all things "Mudd", S-I-L-V-E-R, and "Light Fusion"...leading up to and including Silver Fire.
White Fusion is a term I coined to describe the use of a bright White substrate / Coating that when combined with a "directly over layed" Translucent Top Coating of whatever color / shade, contributes to the brightness of the image as seen reflected off the topmost surface.
This is not an original idea. Props must go to Ken Hottie, the original creator of GOO's CRT White. In that case, a Bright White paint was applied to whatever surface was chosen, then a "very translucent" white Top Coat over that. But Goo had significant issues over roller marks being almost a certainty, and back in 2003, there were precious few DIY'ers who could / would opt to use HVLP Rigs (Tanks-Hoses-Guns- Filters...etc.) Ken tried hard to convince end users to spray was preferable, but he also sold Rolling Kits, so most everyone who bit down on the concept opted to roll.
I myself did about 4 screens....BIG screens, using GOO CRT White, and while it certainly worked, the cost and concerns just left me wondering about how the whole thing might be made simpler and more cost effective.
So instead, MississippiMudd was born...a Mix that combined both translucency and highly reflective White properties into a roll-able, one step application. And...considering it cost about 1/4 as much as Goo, it seemed to catch on fairly quickly.
Moving ahead, MMudd was applied over pure Silver Metallic paint so as to augment contrast. Prior to that, people just used a Gray or Black undercoating, but those simple solutions usually resulted in undue attenuation, leaving one to realize they might just as well of painted the surface Gray in the first place.
But "Silver Metallic / MMudd" was a pretty difficult do....as the SM was also very difficult to apply without leaving Roller Marks / Ridges that would show through the MMudd Top Coat...which by nature had to be translucent and thin enough to allow the SM to be of any effect. Basically, the real issues revolved around the difference between Rolling & Spraying, and up to the MMudd/SM era, I was staunchly against the idea that DIY'ers had to out of hand spend $3-500.00 on complete, cumbersome HVLP Rigs.
But eventually I relented, owning to the realization that Roller marks were the leading cause many aspiring DIY'ers were choosing not to try their hand in making a DIY Screen.. I got one, and struggled for almost 2 years trying to make the darn, syrupy MMudd flow through the HVLP Guns, which used 2.2 mm Needles / Nozzles out of necessity. I resisted the idea of thinning the paint with Water, and those who tried using Flotrol had some bad experiences. And thinning Silver Metallic paint seemed to make no sense whatsoever, so the undercoats were still rolled on.
Then, a wise Auto Painter on Vancouver Island used some MMudd I had ferried over personally to make a spray coated Parkland Plastic screen. He watered down the paint, and showed me just how smooth a surface could be had.
All the above led to the eventual use of Mirrors to replace Silver Metallic paint, and avoid any Rolling issues altogether. The whole idea behind using Mirrors was to improve basic Gray Scale contrast and detail (not deep blacks) and provide a depth to the image that a flat, opaque surface simply could not. What also happened...somewhat unexpectedly, was a "Glow", and a increase in gain. For a while, that was enough, and catapulted Light Fusion to prominence.
Then, as PJ's started providing deeper contrast, the drive to present that contrast unmitigated by "brightness" became more valued, and some lamented the Light Fusion with MMudd did nothing to "drastically improve", let alone maintain contrast. Basically, people wanted / expected more.
Personally, I didn't want to do what most everyone else considered as being standard...add Lamp Black and "Gray-up" the paint. So I turned back to Silver Metallic, and mixing only a small amount into MMudd (2-4 oz per 3 quart mix) I used the Gray element within the SM to provide the darker shading, while using the Metallic Content to maintain gain. Viola'....MMud-SE (Silver Edition) came into being, and when combined with Light Fusion, created the first real examples of a screen that could both augment contrast, and maintain / increase gain. This allowed PJs like the Infocus X-1 / X2 and the Sanyo Z 2-3-4s of the world to show images that looked every bit as good as their $5000+ DLP cousins, something DIY'ers took a hold of with a strong embrace.
The entire equation then took a big step with the insertion of PB-maxx's suggestion that the Deep Base component be replaced by Polyurethane and Water. Bam.
Now we had RS-MaxxMudd. And with that development, ambient light performance took a big jump. At the same time SONY came up with the early Black Screen concept called Chroma-View, a real "Light Gobbler" and smallish screen that cost a small fortune, but that also caught the attention of the growing number of individuals who wanted to watch big screen images in lighting conditions that were not ever considered possible before. Of course, unless you had a real Beamer of a PJ, (2K+ Lumen HD -PJs in 2004 were not the norm) and could accept 82" diagonal as your largest screen option, it wasn't really a viable application, and quickly fell out of favor.
But of course, the Boys over on "Screens" just had to taunt us DIY app developers, and toss down a challenge: "Can you Guys come up with a DIY version of the Chorma-View?". They said it with a snicker..... thinking "How the hell will they create a layered Film approach?" But shoot, we already had distinct "layers" with "Mirrored" Light Fusion, so instead, the focus turned to just how dark can the Top Coat go before there was a point of diminishing returns?
Here is where the story goes controversial. Yes, before that, some liked to pick apart Light Fusion (...mostly Mfg Screen advocates) but when we started messin' around trying to match up against really expensive Screens such as the Vutec Silver Star, and DNP Super Nova s of the world, we became targets for some pretty excessive efforts to destroy any validity of advanced DIY efforts.
Didn't phase us though....much. PB & I worked together to create what was known at the time as Black Flame, and alteration of RS-MaxxMudd that used a RGBY colorant mix of tints, loosely mixed within a Water / Poly base, to darken the paint mix while also maintaining a higher degree of Translucency. What we didn't know during development was just how effective it was going to be....nor did we know just how much resistance we would meet from several sides. We were concerned that someone (Goo perhaps?) would take our idea and commercialize it, so we applied for a Patent on it. Whoo Boy! Such a stink that caused! So much antagonism and accusations of profiteering, (...the latter despite our publishing the formula...
) and comments about it all being "Snake Oil". Some people trolled and pursued our every postings, even followed us onto other Forums here and abroad, and waged war ceaselessly.
We didn't just touch a nerve, we almost started a near Apocalypse in the DIY world, one that threatened the entire DIY community because of the continued efforts of those who wanted to take down everything we were doing...and both PB & myself as well.
Fortunately most all of that lies in the past, although there are some elements that never have relented in their efforts. But the fact remains clear that without our holding fast to the idea that DIY Screens could advance into the upper echelons of performance, even our detractors might never have go forward to accept and embrace those ideals. So at least there was some good come out of all the torment.
Now then....for a spell, Black Flame Light Fusion held sway....but continued rebukes over that name, and it's association with the Patent, led us to change the name to Silver Fire, and withdraw from posting the original Formulas we used pertaining to such. That didn't stop DIY SF from performing better than anything else "paint-wise". And we continued to work to improve the DIY formula. Then........
................the biggest Mfg of Plastic Mirrors sold out to the sole remaining Mfg. , effectively shutting off the supply of truly Epic Sized Mirrors. (4' x 9' - 5' x 9' - 5' x 10" - 6' x 8' -and the biggun' 6' x 10' ) What to do?
Further improve the SF mix...and go Back to the Future and use the idea of a Bright White substrate to augment Whites and maintain gain, while also allowing the surface to be dark enough to improve Contrast as seem directly on-screen.
So where is "S-I-L-V-E-R" s place in this dissertation? CMRA
(..also a early Light Fusion advocate, and the very first to use a Mirror with MMudd...) decided that if translucency is good, and Silver Metallic is good, the why not mix just a wee bit of SM into a Gallon of Matte Faux Glaze, thin it with water to almost a fault, then "DUST" on many multiple, ultra thin coats, until one has created a deep, Silver Metallic infused coating.........over a White substrate. It's only short coming? It's gain combined with a light gray surface sisn't work all that well as resisting ambient light.
In doing so, S-I-L-V-E-R came to life, and it provided more gain than any BF / SF / LF application to date, yet the preponderance of Silver Metallic helped Blacks and Colors jump off the screen like nothing else ever had.
But of course, S-I-L-V-E-R's very make up required Spraying...only and always. And that spraying had to be meticulous and correct, as the repeated coats had to all be done exactingly, and the underlying surface had to be pristine because the almost pure Silver Metallic coating would transfer any underlying defect of blemish to the surface. And lastly, if too much Silver Metallic was either mixed in, or too many layers applied so that the coating was too richly infused, the gain went through the roof, creating a almost Mirror-like effect with the resulting glare and hot spotting one would expect from such a overly reflective surface.
That is why S-I-L-V-E-R isn't used on a Mirror, just over a Bright Flat White substrate.White primer was preferred because it also created a surface the watery S-I-L-V-E-R would hold onto. Using a Glossy White substrate like TWH can work as well, but requires all the more care during the initial first coats, as they must absolutely be ultra thin , freckle-ly Dusters that dry to create some tack for subsequent coats to adhere to.
S-I-L-V-E-R is applied to the point that one cannot no longer see a mottled appearance, one where the substrate can easily be seen through the S-I-L-V-E-R Top Coats. But ONLY
and just to that point.
Lastly, darkening S-I-L-V-E-R would not work because it is S-I-L-V-E-R's light coloration, and the underlying White Surface that prevents the amount of Silver Metallic suspended within the Faux Glaze from looking like millions of tiny grains of light.
PB & I have works on higher Gain versions of Silver Fire...up to 3.0 gain and beyond in fact, but always, the difference between the lightest, most reflective elements and those of the darker Gray base have created a graininess, as well as a unwanted degree of directional gain....both being things we have always tried to "design out" of any advanced DIY applications to our credit. And old habits...as well as standards die hard.
Now then...on this Thread, buried away where only those with the patience and desire to know will take note, let me state that we are so very close to achieving a solid 2.5 gain Black screen with no Graininess, and whose reflectivity is dispersed in the same manner as S-I-L-V-E-R 's is....through a translucent coating whose reflective elements are scattered and non-aligned with the PJ's beam. This will prevent the overt loss of Viewing Cone, something S-I-L-V-E-R itself does not suffer from. But it will also allow for the best ambient light performance we have ever offered.
Raising the DIY Screen performance bar has been, is...and always will be what we are all about. And we will get'ter dun too. When we roll our newest incarnation out sometime late this Summer, it will create some real excitement among those who need such performance...as well as some consternation and denial from a select few as well, of that I'm certain. That PB & I have never rested on our laurels, nor ever accepted "also-ran" status among the DIY Screen community, isn't about being "Top Dog"...it's about being responsible for providing something special and unique for DIY'ers to consider and aspire to having. That is what is of paramount importance, and what drives us to continue onward into the future.