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The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 507

post #15181 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakebum431 View Post

Except he said he bought it from Ebay. Denon only provides warranties when purchased from an authorized dealer.

Oops - never mind (how'd I get Amazon from Ebay - guess its time for an eye exam)
post #15182 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Out of curiosity, where did you get that info about "AL24 Plus" versus "Advanced AL24"? It's very hard to dig up good info on Denon's proprietary stuff.

My sources are image linked pop up windows on the Denon web site:

Quote:


ALPHA processing is the world's first technical formula for reproducing an analog waveform from the reproduction of 16-bit data in 20-bit quality. The ALPHA processor interpolates the digital data recorded on a CD and reproduces it in a waveform that is very close to the way these musical signals would look in a natural analog waveform.

Quote:


AL24 Processing is a newly developed technology that reduces quantization distortion and represents the ultimate analog waveform reproduction that is designed to support the higher numbers of bits and higher sampling rate of next-generation media. It senses the nature of the digital data being input and interpolates the data so that it faithfully replicates the original analog waveform.

Quote:


Denon has further developed its proprietary AL24 Processing, an analog waveform reproduction technology, to support the 192-kHz sampling frequency of DVD-Audio. This new technology thoroughly suppresses quantization noise with D/A conversion of LPCM signals to reproduce the low-level signals with optimum clarity that brings out all the delicate nuances of the music. For additional information, visit the Denon Tech Showcase.

Quote:


The acclaimed Advanced AL24 DSP processing improves the fidelity of high resolution stereo PCM sources such as CD and DVD (up to 192kHz sampling frequencies). Through sophisticated DSP processing algorithms, it improves low level detail and enhances fidelity by up-sampling and adaptive filtering techniques. Advanced AL24 also provides increased dynamic range and spatial information, bringing out all the nuances with optimum clarity and natural fidelity. For additional information, visit the Denon Tech Showcase.

Quote:


In addition to the existing AL24 Processing Plus bit expansion technology, DENON has also developed Advanced AL24 Processing that dramatically improves information volume in the time axis region using high-speed signal detection and processing technology. In addition to expanding original 16-bit digital data to 24 bits, Advanced AL24 Processing uses data interpolation along the time axis or up-converted sampling to achieve natural interpolation without losing the original data. Advanced AL24 Processing Multi Channel is conducted for all channels and modes other than DSD DIRECT.

From that info, I have inferred the following:

ALPHA Processing -> AL24 Processing -> AL24 Processing Plus -> Advanced AL24 Processing

ALPHA Processing is a bit depth expansion process: 16 bit input, 20 bit output.

AL24 Processing is a bit depth expansion process: 16 bit or 20 bit input, 24 bit output.

AL24 Processing Plus is a bit depth expansion process: 16 bit or 20 bit input, 24 bit output. AL24 Processing Plus supports input signals w/ a greater range of sample rates, up to 192 kHz.

Advanced AL24 Processing is a bit depth expansion process: 16 bit or 20 bit input, 24 bit output. Advanced AL24 Processing is also an upsampling process: 32 kHz, 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 96 kHz, or 176.4 kHz input, 192 kHz output.

AJ
post #15183 of 20190
awesome, thanks. I concur with all of your inferences.

the only question that then remains is: do the 2808/988, 2809/989, and 3808 have AL24 on the other channels beyond FL/FR? It is clear that they have AL24+ on the FL/FR, but what about the other channels? regular AL24? or nothing?
post #15184 of 20190
Sorry to hijack the AL24 thread, but does anyone know why Circuit City has its website up and are sending emails with sale ads? I thought they were dismantled and there merchandise would be sent to a third party holding company. Maybe its Zombie Circuit City?
post #15185 of 20190
another company purchased the right to the "Circuit City" name and resurrected it as an online-only storefront. so, yes, in a sense it is a "zombie" Circuit City
post #15186 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by blairy View Post

From memory it also comes on when playing analogue vinyl records.

Blairy

CORRECTION
In the note above the 'it' refers to AL24. Clearly my memory is wrong, apologies for any confusion caused.
post #15187 of 20190
Batpig im wondering the same thing, i have the 2809 but i just noticed tonight while watchin a regular dvd through a toshiba hd-a3 hd-dvd player via hdmi, audio is pcm receiver reads multi +dolby PIIx and the al24 light was lit. Normally mine only lights on two channel sources. Denons are so confusing
post #15188 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What's interesting is that the verbage from the manual (pointed out by HDTVChallenged) indicating that it is equipped for all channels is IDENTICAL on the manuals of 3806, 2808CI, 2809CI, and 3808CI -- all the way down to the typo "foe" instead of "for"!

Frankly, I don't think it's that significant of a feature to inspire all the hand-wringing. For most folks and "normal usage," it will probably never engage unless they're listening to a CD ... which will most likely be 2 channel.

Edit: and even if it does engage, it probably won't make any audible difference except to your dog.
post #15189 of 20190
Figured it out: The GUI cannot superimpose on an HDMI input that is not running at a standard resolution the Denon understands (I'd set my HTPC to 1360 x 768)
post #15190 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Frankly, I don't think it's that significant of a feature to inspire all the hand-wringing. For most folks and "normal usage," it will probably never engage unless they're listening to a CD ... which will most likely be 2 channel.

Edit: and even if it does engage, it probably won't make any audible difference except to your dog.

Any non HD channel will be pcm so if people watch any SD from digital channels, I would think that would get the most usage.
post #15191 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Frankly, I don't think it's that significant of a feature to inspire all the hand-wringing.

Who's hand-wringing? We're just trying to get to the bottom of things, I don't think anyone is worked up or anything. Just your standard obsessive, internet geek-out over a specific feature of one of our gadgets.


Quote:
For most folks and "normal usage," it will probably never engage unless they're listening to a CD ... which will most likely be 2 channel.

Actually, it would engage with any 2-channel music OR with any multichannel PCM soundtrack, if you have a BDP or HD-DVD player which decodes for you you will be using it potentially with all of your movies, PS3 games, etc.

Anyway, it's not a big deal, but it's still interesting to "get to the bottom of it" as a lot of people ask about the feature and it's pretty poorly documented. I'd like to understand exactly what's going on and which receivers have what, if only because I'd like to give people accurate answers when asked.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Any non HD channel will be pcm so if people watch any SD from digital channels, I would think that would get the most usage.

On my cable box at least, SD channels come out as DD 2.0 which would NOT engage AL24. Perhaps other cable boxes have different setups...



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustenTroxell View Post

Batpig im wondering the same thing, i have the 2809 but i just noticed tonight while watchin a regular dvd through a toshiba hd-a3 hd-dvd player via hdmi, audio is pcm receiver reads multi +dolby PIIx and the al24 light was lit. Normally mine only lights on two channel sources. Denons are so confusing

Well, if the A3 is set to "PCM" it will decode all soundtracks and output multichannel PCM, so the AL24 will come on as it works on any PCM input signal. The question at hand is whether it's working on ALL channels or just FL/FR.
post #15192 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Any non HD channel will be pcm so if people watch any SD from digital channels, I would think that would get the most usage.

Actually ... those are going to be DD5.1 or DD2.0 ... unless you've done something wrong setting up your STB. Unless you mean BBCA, which might come out as PCM.
post #15193 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Actually, it would engage with any 2-channel music OR with any multichannel PCM soundtrack, if you have a BDP or HD-DVD player which decodes for you you will be using it potentially with all of your movies, PS3 games, etc.

Gasp!!! You're not using the internal TrueHD/DTS MA decoders????? The horror!!!



Neither am I, but my BD/Gaming usage amounts to less than 10% of the time ... even less when the TV season is in full swing.

I repeat ... who cares? We know it does something "special" with PCM the value of which is probably 95% marketing, 5% actual benefit.
post #15194 of 20190
Quote:
I repeat ... who cares?

obviously those of us having the discussion do.

whether the feature is significant to you or not is frankly irrelevant, some of us are interested in understanding exactly what's going on. that's the point of places like AVS, so we can dork out about our gadgets down to the smallest detail.
post #15195 of 20190
hi there. i've been trying to do some research on this issue but couldn't find any solutions. i thought i'd try asking in this thread.

1st, here's my setup: samsung bd-p1600 -> AVR-3808 -> TV

now, the problem:
i am able to access netflix on the player, go to my queue and load the movie. however, when the movie actually starts playing, i lose the video signal and don't see anything on the tv. but i know the movie is actually playing because the counter on the player's display is running.

it can't be a network issue because pandora is working flawlessly. could this possibly be an HDMI HDCP issue with the receiver?

i'd appreciate anybody's help who's encountered this problem and solved it. it's really frustrating. thanks!
post #15196 of 20190
have you tried switching the receiver to another input and then flipping back to the BDP input? if it's a handshake problem sometimes that will kick it in the pants and force it to resync so you get things going again.
post #15197 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

another company purchased the right to the "Circuit City" name and resurrected it as an online-only storefront. so, yes, in a sense it is a "zombie" Circuit City

Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Sorry to hijack the AL24 thread, but does anyone know why Circuit City has its website up and are sending emails with sale ads? I thought they were dismantled and there merchandise would be sent to a third party holding company. Maybe its Zombie Circuit City?

TigerDirect. They are also the ones who bought CompUSA when they went out of business too. Their website designs are all similar.
post #15198 of 20190
Can this unit be used with 2 powered subwoofers? I have a "Y" splitter so I could simply use that with one cable going to each sub. Will that work? The subs will not be identical but somewhat similar.

fafner
post #15199 of 20190
any receiver can. simply get an RCA Y-cable to split the signal. like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

there are then additional challenges to multiple subs, such as placement, level matching the subs, re-running Audyssey, etc. but that cable is all you need to physically hook it up.
post #15200 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

any receiver can. simply get an RCA Y-cable to split the signal. like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

there are then additional challenges to multiple subs, such as placement, level matching the subs, re-running Audyssey, etc. but that cable is all you need to physically hook it up.

Thanks. What will happen if I don't get the level matching done quite right? Do you know of a guide for doing this?

fafner
post #15201 of 20190
Good news (at least for me) - the Audyssey upgrade "date hack" worked (no offense to those who find this freebie to be unethical). Here's what I did:
  1. Connected the 3808 to the Denon server to check for firmware updates (getting it to connect involved NOT disabling DHCP in the 3808 or disabling UPnP in the router).
  2. Downloaded the latest firmware (everything was up to-date but the "GUI DAT" module which went from 37750017 to 37750020...whatever the hell dat means...).
  3. Went to Denon's feature upgrade webpage and used a 4/30/09 purchase date, which it accepted and allowed me to proceed....
Who knows why it worked for me when others' recent attempts failed...perhaps my unit was shipped to the dealer well-before the free upgrade period ended or ?.... Try my approach and see if it works.
post #15202 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

any receiver can. simply get an RCA Y-cable to split the signal. like this:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

there are then additional challenges to multiple subs, such as placement, level matching the subs, re-running Audyssey, etc. but that cable is all you need to physically hook it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafner View Post

Thanks. What will happen if I don't get the level matching done quite right? Do you know of a guide for doing this?

fafner

Would Audyssey not recalibrate the levels to match after sending a signal to them during the setup process? It should not be that much of a problem since Audyssey relies strictly upon the sound placement of the signals that it sends to the sub. In this case, would it not be just a wider/broader signal. Well, depending on where the subs are located of course.
post #15203 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor007 View Post

Holy crap, I finally got it! I was messing with this again tonight, and miraculously I finally got my remote ID 2 set correctly.

Unfortunately, there was no simple "oh duh" that fixed it. The instructions on page 62 of the manual are sort of correct, but remote seems very finicky.

I can provide a few tips though:
  • Wait about 1/2 second between each keypress mentioned in the manual: not much more, and not much less.
  • It seems like it's not good enough to already be in Amp mode to change the amp's remote ID; pressing the Amp button is actually a necessary step in the process (or at least, it helped me).
  • When entering the code itself, if the "signal transmission indicator" is going all the way from the bottom to the top, it's not working; start over. If it's blinking once at the top for each keypress, it's finally working!

So, to be as clear as can be, here's how to do just the Amp part (the others are similar):
  • Press Amp, then wait about 1/2 sec. (On this step, it seems you can wait a little longer and it still works.)
  • Press and hold RC Setup until it flashes twice, then wait about 1/2 sec.
  • Press 8, wait 1/2 sec. (It should flash once, at the top only.)
  • Press 2, wait 1/2 sec. (It should flash once, at the top only.)
  • Press 0, wait 1/2 sec. (It should flash once, at the top only.)
  • Press 0, wait 1/2 sec. (It should flash once, at the top only.)
  • Press 1. (It should flash twice, at the top only.)

Likewise, set the following: TU DEV1 52795, TU DEV2 52812, iPod 72816, NET/DTU 62837. Refer to page 62 of the manual if you want ID 3 or 4.

A couple other codes I found by trying the codes in the manual (which definitely need to be better labelled):
  • Samsung LN-T4671F: TV 10060
  • Samsung BD-UP5000: DVD 30199

Thanks for sharing!

I've been able to program the main remote to control the cable box (Motorola), and the TV (Sony LCD).

I just can't keep the main remote from controlling the other, older Denon AVR. The black electrician's tape, over the IR receiver, is holding up nicely, though. In theory, I should never have to touch the older Denon AVR, as I'm using it as an amp only.

Since you're now an expert with this main remote, can you (or someone else) explain why the main hard power off button turns off zone 2 as well? Is there a way to just turn off zone 1, from the main remote?
post #15204 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Go to Page 62 of the Denon 3808 manual. You will see that the remote needs to have a different code set/programmed for each of the four remote ID's. It explains pretty well what to do, so get that tape off of there.

I spent quite a while staring at that page.

What's a 'remote ID'?

The tape is black, and 1 square inch, on the IR receiver, 7 feet off the ground, recessed in a cabinet.

Hopefully, in a few months, I'll have no need for zone 2 of the 3808 - looking into a dedicated multisource, multichannel DA system.

But I really am interested in figuring out the remote issue, because I've spent so much time on it.
post #15205 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by garypen View Post

What do you mean "ignore"? Are you referring to remote control commands? If so, you need to set one of the receivers, and its remote(s), to address 2.

For the 3808, you would do it in the setup menu, as mentioned on p.35 for the receiver, and p.62 and 67 for the two remotes.

For the other receiver, you'll need that model's manual.

The issue is becoming clearer...
post #15206 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

obviously those of us having the discussion do.

whether the feature is significant to you or not is frankly irrelevant, some of us are interested in understanding exactly what's going on. that's the point of places like AVS, so we can dork out about our gadgets down to the smallest detail.

LOL ... Well I was confused as to why the AL24 light was not lit on any of my SD/PCM encoded programming from D*. I discovered that AL24, of any variety, only engages as long as you are *not* using PLII/PLIIx (or some other processing) to expand 2 or 5 channels to 7, therefore, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant 95% of the time I use my receiver and probably for most other folks too.

I stick by my original statement(s.)
post #15207 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

LOL ... Well I was confused as to why the AL24 light was not lit on any of my SD/PCM encoded programming from D*. I discovered that AL24, of any variety, only engages as long as you are *not* using PLII/PLIIx (or some other processing) to expand 2 or 5 channels to 7, therefore, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant 95% of the time I use my receiver and probably for most other folks too.

That limitation may be true for AL24 Processing Plus but does not necessarily seem to be the case for Advanced AL24 Processing, as the quote below indicates that it operates in all listening modes "other than DSD DIRECT."

Quote:


In addition to the existing AL24 Processing Plus bit expansion technology, DENON has also developed Advanced AL24 Processing that dramatically improves information volume in the time axis region using high-speed signal detection and processing technology. In addition to expanding original 16-bit digital data to 24 bits, Advanced AL24 Processing uses data interpolation along the time axis or up-converted sampling to achieve natural interpolation without losing the original data. Advanced AL24 Processing Multi Channel is conducted for all channels and modes other than DSD DIRECT.

Will someone w/ a 4308CI or 5308CI test this for us? Is Advanced AL24 Processing active concurrent w/ Dolby Pro Logic IIx, Dolby Digital, HDCD, etc.?

AJ
post #15208 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

LOL ... Well I was confused as to why the AL24 light was not lit on any of my SD/PCM encoded programming from D*. I discovered that AL24, of any variety, only engages as long as you are *not* using PLII/PLIIx (or some other processing) to expand 2 or 5 channels to 7, therefore, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant 95% of the time I use my receiver and probably for most other folks too.

I stick by my original statement(s.)


does "7ch stereo" count here as "expanding"?
post #15209 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by tater911 View Post

Hey everyone!

I have a question, which I think I already know the answer to, but thought I would ask anyway.

I am currently running a 5.1 setup with my Zone 3 speakers outside. I am not using a preamp, just the amp assign and the speakers on the far right terminals. Is there a way to have 6.1 inside and still use my other zone as it is. If the receiver will not do this, is there any kind of kluge that will work, eg. just attaching the the extra speaker for the 6.1 to the same terminal on top of the wire for the other. I would not ever be using the two at the same time, at least not in 6.1. Could I just switch it to 5.1 when I want music outside and then turn off zone 3 and turn it back to 6.1 when I want to have that inside.

Also, am I really going to notice a huge difference with 6.1. I guess by that I am asking is it worth doing. I have kind of a weird room set up and thought the 6.1 might add a little to it.

Thanks in advance!!!

By the deadly silence, can I assume that I am answering my own question, meaning that it cannot be done? Or should I just try it and see how it works?
post #15210 of 20190
Is anyone running the 3808 with M&K 150 speakers. I have a 7.1 setup with these speakers but they are 4 ohm. I was considering using this reciever but want to know if you have the setup, how is the sound, is there enough power.

If you dont have this exact setup can I drive my speakers with this reciever and is there a special setting on it to tell the amps they are driving 4 ohms.

Thanks for any help.
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