The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 55

- Unless a fellow owner comes into this very thread and explains how those players need to be set up, you're going to need to do a little investigative work on your own. Go into the audio settings for each player. Under HDMI, there should be a setting for Bitstream. If you have it set for PCM right now, you'll have to change it.

No need to get defensive, my original comment was tongue in cheek. Hence the smiley. Having your player decode TrueHD to PCM is no different than having your player doing it. As my previous link noted, you're actually losing sound quality for advanced features. Sanjay has one of the best explanations that I've seen.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Necessary/853

Think of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA as zipping a computer file to save space. None of the data is discarded, just packed more efficiently to take up less storage space. When you unzip the file, 100% of the data is still there, and you get a bit-for-bit copy of the original.

If you had a zipped document that you wanted to send me on disc, you would have two choices. You could unzip it on your computer before putting it on the disc. Or you could send it to me as a zipped file (would take up less space on the disc) and I could unzip it on my computer. Either way, I end up with the exact same document, down to the last letter.

- If your player is doing the decoding, you're going to see Multi-Channel PCM light up on the 3808. If the receiver is receiving Dolby TrueHD as bitstream, then you'll see the display on the receiver light up. Either way, you're getting the same exact sound quality.

I'm sorry I made an assumption but you never indicated you had a player capable of outputting in bitstream and that you understood that issue. I presume then that you know to have the players output audio via the HDMI via bitstream? If you do, it sounds like your denon is broken.

Actually, I already asked a fellow owner in my original post.

FYI, there is no Bitstream option under HDMI for either player. The A35 has Bitstream for SPDIF but I am not using that.

I know you are trying to be helpful but telling me and others to do things that are not possible is not helpful at all.

Also, please note that I did not ask whether the sound would be the same whether decoded in the player or the receiver. I purposedly did not want to go there.

I don't believe there is one post in this thread where a user has reported that the TrueHD icon lights up while there are many such reports in the Onkyo AVR threads.

This discrepency has led me to question whether the Denon has some fault in it that is preventing the TrueHD display. Perhaps I should have mentioned this in my original post or in a subsequent one.

Thanks anyway.

fafner

See above post. Neither of my players has an option for bitstream under HDMI. The choices are Auto or LPCM.

I realize that you also are trying to be helpful, but as I said above telling me to select something that does not exist is not helpful at all.

fafner

- I would try to contact this user or someone in this thread to see what they have their A35 set to.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=915405

"I have the Toshiba A35"....when did you replace your Toshiba A30?
According to this post just two weeks ago you purchased the Toshiba A30:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=263

NOTE: The A30 does NOT do bitstream while the A35 does.

Perhaps this is the problem you are experiencing!

Toshiba A35:

The HD-A35 offers 5.1 channel analog output and High Bit Rate Audio (up to 7.1 channel) via HDMITM. With content encoded in 7.1ch, this advanced surround sound is achieved through the HDMI connection bypassing the player´s internal audio processor and sending the signal to a 7.1 capable A/V receiver. High Bit Rate Audio will allow the consumer to integrate the HD-A35 with the latest multi-channel A/V receivers and enjoy a whole new dimension of high defi nition home entertainment. For improved contrast and detail, and smoother transitions, the HD-A35 also adds support for Deep Color via HDMI allowing compatible display devices to deliver outstanding video quality displaying up to a billion possible colors.
------------

However, the Toshiba A30 does not offer this capability! :
THE HD-A30 TAKES THE PERFORMANCE AND CONVENIENCE OF HD DVD TO THE NEXT LEVEL.For the highest level of picture quality with today´s best performing high defi nition TVs, the HD-A30 adds 1080p output. That´s twice the resolution of a 720p signal. The HD-A30 is equipped with CE-Link HDMI-CEC connectivity. This convenient feature offers the capability to communicate with and control another HDMI-CEC compatible device in a completely new way. 1080p/24 frames per second (24p) support offers a smoother, more fi lm-like, viewing experience. Traditionally, movie fi lms are captured at 24 frames per second. The HD-A30 HD DVD player maintains this frame rate, allowing consumers to enjoy movies in their native frame rate.
------------

Unless you have an HD-DVD or BluRay player capable of sending TrueHD via bitstream to your Denon, then the Denon will always say "multi channel in." Since the only players that can do that either have just come out or are not out yet, you likely don't have one so your player will (likely) never be able to output in a way that will cause the Denon to recognize the format as TrueHD. That is because by the time it gets to the Denon the player has already decoded the TrueHD bitstream into LPCM. Since any format can be sent over LPCM, the Denon has no idea what the original format was so it just says "multi channel in."

This is not a malfunction on the Denon. It is also not a malfunction of your HD-DVD or BR player.

With that being said, even when players become available that can send TrueHD bitstream, it will likely be meaningless anyway since the ways in which the discs are being authored REQUIRES that the decoding be done in the player and thus the output will ALWAYS be LPCM and your Denon will still not light up.

Read up on the HDMI 1.3 marketing scam.

If you bought your Denon just for TrueHD and the other new format, you should return it.

HTH.

Edit: just now saw you have the A35. Disregard first paragraph.

Oops. Yes I currently have the A30 but am considering upgrading to an A35. Also I was wrong in thinking that the Sony 301 outputs HBR audi. I apologize profusely to everyone in the thread.

fafner

Thanks. I do not have the A35 but have the A30. Sorry about that.

However,.....lots of people are seeing the TrueHD icon on their new Onkyo AVR displays. And yet I haven't seen one report of this happening on the new Denon models.

I really am just trying to understand why Denon apparently has the capability to display a TrueHD display icon when what you and others have been saying recently is that the decoding must done in the player and thus the TrueHD light will never come on. And why does the Onkyo display the icon?

Others have said that it doesn't matter whether the decoding is done in the player or the AVR, ie, the sound will be the same, but that is an entirely different issue that I am not interested in.

I am not concerned about the light, per se, but why it lights up on the Onkyo AVR's and apparently doesn't in the new Denons. Could you please address the issue from this standpoint?

Thanks.

fafner

Sorry this is rubbish.

Check this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11684457

Erik,

Thanks very much. Clearly I missed that.

fafner

Hi. Just got my 3808 and have a few questions to more experienced users..

1) I connected my PVR (Motorola DCT6416 - Shaw Canada) using the HDMI cable to the receiver. All seems fine. On the HD channels, the receiver indicates that the audio signal is 5:1 dolby digital. However, the salesperson at the store indicated that I would have to also connect the digital audio cable up because the PVR only dumps 2 channel audio over the HDMI link. But it does seem to be outputting 5:1 with only the HDMI cable. Can anyone confirm this?

2) Also. If I indeed did want to use the digital coax cable for audio, how do you manually assign this? ie. Tell the amp to pick the video off the HDMI and the audio off the digital coax. I don't really see a way to do that. Does the amp just pick the best available signal? Cause for my oppo DVD player it does indeed find the audio coming in on the dolby digital cable because the HDMI is via DVI with no audio.

3) There seems to be something odd with the volume levels. When watching TV from the PVR (HDMI connection from PVR to AMP), the volume seems low. I need to get it up to -20 db to get some decent volume out of it. But if I'm listening to CD (2 channel analog inputs), the volume is MUCH louder at -20 db volume setting. Anyway. Can anyone comment on that? I don't see anything on the PVR menus to adjust it.

4) What about 3808 firmware versions. I never saw a screen to dump the current f/w version. There are clearly some bugs that perhaps are addessed. Are there any release notes for newer f/w versions?

5) Minor. When I MUTE the main zone, it seems that the OSD is disabled. Thats stupid. I would still like the OSD to function for zone 2. Cause eventually I'm gonna broadcast the monitor out to all my TV's in the house on channel 117. That way I can adjust the AMP from anywhere in the house and use the TV to do it. Anyhow. I assume this is a "feature"???



Thanks in advance.

"2) Also. If I indeed did want to use the digital coax cable for audio, how do you manually assign this? ie. Tell the amp to pick the video off the HDMI and the audio off the digital coax. I don't really see a way to do that. "

Actually that is easy to do and I do it for my computer. Just assign the proper HDMI port to your component and then under audio select the appropriate optical port. The 3808 knows to use the video from HDMI and audio from optical with those settings.

fafner

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9353634


Further info on the HDMI 1.3 marketing scam:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh..._Necessary/853

1) I connected my PVR (Motorola DCT6416 - Shaw Canada) using the HDMI cable to the receiver. All seems fine. On the HD channels, the receiver indicates that the audio signal is 5:1 dolby digital. However, the salesperson at the store indicated that I would have to also connect the digital audio cable up because the PVR only dumps 2 channel audio over the HDMI link. But it does seem to be outputting 5:1 with only the HDMI cable. Can anyone confirm this?

HDMI carries digital and along with it you will get the respective digital codecs showing up properly...no need to do anything else here.

3) There seems to be something odd with the volume levels. When watching TV from the PVR (HDMI connection from PVR to AMP), the volume seems low. I need to get it up to -20 db to get some decent volume out of it. But if I'm listening to CD (2 channel analog inputs), the volume is MUCH louder at -20 db volume setting. Anyway. Can anyone comment on that? I don't see anything on the PVR menus to adjust it.

There are SRC Level adjustments in each Source. Check the menu under each source for "Other". see pic below....

4) What about 3808 firmware versions. I never saw a screen to dump the current f/w version. There are clearly some bugs that perhaps are addessed. Are there any release notes for newer f/w versions?

You can check your FW versions in this manner:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=324

If you visit the Onkyo 905 thread JoeRod has been doing some testing with his new Toshiba A35 sending bitstream to his receiver and it is playing everything fine. He and a couple of others said it sounds better too letting the receiver to the decoding. I am not sure if "advance authoring" only has to do with "extras" or not but, since I don't care about extras at all I will soon be sending everythig to my Denon via bitstream and let it do the decoding.

Cool. Let us know if it works. Nothing beats real world experience.

Thanks guys....I'll check out the source level control. Not sure how I missed that....

Also. How did you know the sequence for dumping the f/w version???? Are there some docs I don't know about??

Main ver F/W is 1.03, sub ver 00.21, DSP1 36.45, DSP2 39.36, etc...I'll check back a few pages to see what the latest is. I'll probably wait a few weeks till they iron out the f/w updates a bit. Don't need a door stop yet.

Also. The source input level worked great (had to add +8db to get it close to the other input levels). I thought those menu items were read only...But really those are all the ones I missed for controlling the input/outputs....But I've only had the amp running for a day now so I guess I'll give myself a break...

Thanks again...

Will this also work having a component video source (PS3 video set to component) with a hdmi audio source (PS3 audio set to HDMI)? This because I'm using a component cable to my 720p beamer and want to enjoy Multi-Channel PCM sound through the receiver.

But we have already been told by Toshiba that bitstream ignores advanced mode.

Thanks Erik
I appreciate your candid reply.

I don't know. That is one you have to try yourself.

fafner

I Noticed earlier in this tread there were some mentions of poor bass when not using a sub on the 3808, Having just purchased a 3808 a week ago initially I was very happy with the sound however yesterday I connected my front 2 Kef floor standers to the 3808 instead on my old SONY TA-F940QS HiFi amp and have to say I’m most disappointed in the resulting sound. Basically there is just no deep bass from the front 2 channels despite the speakers being set as Large and sub being turned off. Reconnecting the SONY amp to the front pre outs of the denon resolves this problem but im shocked that a £299 8 year old amp can show this £1300 Megga Beast a clean set of heals. It is clear to me that this is not a Processing/Preamp issue and is directly related to the front channel power amps having to high a low frequency cut off point. If anyone could source a schematic diagram for me I would be game to open the Beast up and mod it, then share the resulting details on the forum . Yes I know its under warranty but having worked in the electronics trade for 30 odd years this just dont scare me anymore.

Chris

Did you check the crossover frequency, that might be set too high for your Kefs.

Thanks for the suggestion. Crossover is set to 40hz. this is as low as it will go. the point is I have no sub, dont need a sub, and dont want the hassle of a sub and all its associated problems. These Kef Q55.2 floor standers can shake the room when driven properly and do so very well in a 3808 > SONY QS > Kef setup. alas 3808 > Kef is a pretty weak second best .

Do you mean to say that you cannot remove the LF cutoff from the main speakers? I for one would really not like to see the low frequencies removed from my B&W 801s...

I dont believe that there is an intensional low cut off in place as the front pre outs are fine and sound awesome when pumped into an external amp on the same speakers. also the denon is configured for NO sub. there is no option in the crossover section other than the various frequencies of which 40hz is the lowest. if there are any Denon Representatives here id love to hear there take on this.