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The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 668

post #20011 of 20190
I'm using a 3808CI as pre-pro, feeding the signal to an Emotiva XPA-5, which powers my Paradigm Studio series speakers. I just bought my very first blu-ray pure audio title. Grrrrr, by The Rolling Stones. I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but I'll report back when I do.
post #20012 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ Agree about the 3808 incoming channel display: I use that all the time. ............

+1

Why did they get rid of that feature?
post #20013 of 20190
^ Actually, they got rid of a lot of features that long-time 3808 users might panic at. OK, maybe only one did... smile.gif The 4520 doesn't have the ones I'm thinking of either, so I'm going to guess they're permanently gone for Denon, and the gone-ness just trickled down. But here's the weird thing: you don't actually need (most of?) them, there are replacement features or improved performance (i.e. smarter and better) that compensates. Dumbed down maybe, but maybe not, maybe just better integrated and thought out. 5-6 years is a long time in this biz.

Re the input channel display: I missed this option before. There is only one channel display on the X4000 display panel, and you can choose whether it shows input or output channels. I do like seeing both. The remote's Info key displays both on-screen though.

Edit: I have some comments on some of the major differences between the 3808 and the X4000. The things you'll notice right away after installation, but things that no review mentions because they're not doing a comparison. Things you might want to know/consider. Make no mistake, it is not a complete upgrade in all ways, but you probably suspect that considering it costs less and does more, years later, and the underlying tech hasn't advanced that much. The X4000 is extremely Zone-oriented, like most competitors, and I think that's why some things are so very different. I've polluted this thread enough with X4000 stuff, and not sure if I should put any more unless somebody specifically asks... And yes, I have all the same gear with the X4000 as I had with the 3808, and the XT32 even after my first "proper" run makes a huge diff to my ear.
Edited by cfraser - 10/19/13 at 8:02am
post #20014 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by falloutphil View Post

Well I've splashed out £12 on the Bob Marley HFPA from Amazon. As people have said - I'll have a listen for myself and see what I think.

I can confirm it sounds very nice indeed. Don't have the CD to hand to do a direct comparison, so it's not a proper test of course.

Denon picks it up as a PCM Digital signal over HDMI without any setup, and you get the AL24 indicator so you know it's picking up the full 24-bits.
post #20015 of 20190
Sorry of seeming lazy and not reading through this thread for my answers but with 668 pages I figured I'd just ask and see. I just recently upgraded to a Panasonic zt60 and wondered about the denon video settings. I want to make sure I'm getting the best out of all my components. Currently I have a time warner cable box, apply TV, and ps3 (soon to be ps4) all running into my denon then out to the tv. I also had to buy a dual hdmi panasonic 3d blu ray player that I'm running into the denon for lossless sound and directly into the tv. The blu ray and 3d work amazing. It's everything else that I'm running into the denon that I had questions for. Mainly with the video convert and ip scaler. I'm not liking how the cable tv is looking on a consistent basis and I figured a lot of this is probably due to the source. For all my devices I have the ip scaler set to A to H and everything else in its menu on the default settings (resolution, aspect, etc). Is this right? I'm a little confused on the video convert option especially for my cable box. Should this be set to on for everything? I'm only getting 1080i so I figured it should be on. What about the ps3 and appletv? Should I have the video convert and ip scaler on? Thanks to anyone who can take the time to explain this to me.
post #20016 of 20190
Watched our first .mkv with TrueHD. The 3808 display showed TrueHD and 7.1 speaker symbols on the left. We have 5.1 on the right.

It started out well but then the sound would just cut out for a split second. It was random and sometimes a quick succession or 5 minutes later. Could it be I due to not have a 7.1 setup?

Signal is coming over HDMI from a WDTV Live stream box. I need to find another TrueHD video to test.

Is there a setting on the 3808 that would help?

CEH
post #20017 of 20190
Sounds more like the player. I played many .mkv's through the 3808 without a problem. If you only have a 5.1 system then the right side of the display should only ever go up to 5.1. The 7.1 input should be down converted without a hitch.
post #20018 of 20190
ok, selecting the 5.1 using the WD Live audio button on the remote solved the sound cutting out.

CEH
post #20019 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by weds31 View Post

Sorry of seeming lazy and not reading through this thread for my answers but with 668 pages I figured I'd just ask and see. I just recently upgraded to a Panasonic zt60 and wondered about the denon video settings. I want to make sure I'm getting the best out of all my components. Currently I have a time warner cable box, apply TV, and ps3 (soon to be ps4) all running into my denon then out to the tv. I also had to buy a dual hdmi panasonic 3d blu ray player that I'm running into the denon for lossless sound and directly into the tv. The blu ray and 3d work amazing. It's everything else that I'm running into the denon that I had questions for. Mainly with the video convert and ip scaler. I'm not liking how the cable tv is looking on a consistent basis and I figured a lot of this is probably due to the source. For all my devices I have the ip scaler set to A to H and everything else in its menu on the default settings (resolution, aspect, etc). Is this right? I'm a little confused on the video convert option especially for my cable box. Should this be set to on for everything? I'm only getting 1080i so I figured it should be on. What about the ps3 and appletv? Should I have the video convert and ip scaler on? Thanks to anyone who can take the time to explain this to me.

If you will list all your components individually, how they are connected, and what is the usual and max resolution for each I will tell you how I have set mine up.
post #20020 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk1843 View Post

If you will list all your components individually, how they are connected, and what is the usual and max resolution for each I will tell you how I have set mine up.

Thanks Dirk! I have a cable box (1080i max), ps3 (1080p max), and Apple TV (1080p max) all running into my Denon via hdmi and then out to tv via hdmi.
post #20021 of 20190
If ll your sources are HD already then the scaler in the receiver is basically irrelevant. It seems like the only thing you are worried about is 1080i deinterlacing, which is not something the old Faroudja chip in the 3808 was particularly great at. It was solid with SD processing and pretty decent at up scaling SD rez sources.

But you aren't even using it right now at all. You have the scalar set to A-to-H and all your sources are already H! So there's no A to scale wink.gif you could try enabling the HDMI scaling for the cable too to see if it does a better job of getting it to 1080p than your display, but I'm skeptical it will be able to best what a newer model nice Panny plasma can do. So give it a whirl but my bet is you should simply disable the i/p scaler completely and let all HDMI sources just roll through to the tv. Although with the scaler set to A-to-H that's effectively the same thing. You do need to leave video convert on though if you want graphics overlays (GUI etc).
post #20022 of 20190
Thank you! Yeah it definitely looks better with the scaler off and resolution remaster on the Panny set to Auto.
post #20023 of 20190

Longtime lurker 1st time poster.  This is one of the best sites on the web.

 

Equipment: Receiver (Denon 3808ci), Speakers (JBL Studio L Series l890, lc2, l830) Sub (Outlaw LFM-1ex) Display (Panasonic AE3000)

 

I currently run a 7.1 setup with 2 sets of JBL L830 as rears.  Prior to adding the rear surrounds I ran a 5.1 configuration with the extra amps assigned to bi-amp my fronts speakers the JBL L890’s.  There was a noticeable improvement in sound quality and I am on the fence about adding a power amp to drive the fronts and take some of the load off the Denon 3808ci.

 

I currently own a 1970’s silver age Pioneer SX-850.  This is a beefy old school unit with a warm sound that can be run as a power amp.  My question is can I connect the pre-amp outs for the fronts (left and right) channels on the Denon to the power amp on the Pioneer SX-850 to bi-amp my fronts?  In other words the Denon would still be driving the woofers of the JBL-890’s and the Pioneer SX-850 would be driving the midrange and tweeters.  Are there any  associated issue or problems with this type of setup?

 

Also how is sound quality affected when using the Denon 3808ci as a pre amp?  Assuming tone control and eq are flat does the pre-amp or power amp play the greater role in defining the sound of a given speaker? 

 

The situation I am in is that the JBL studio L are awesome HT speakers but can be a little bright.  I specifically picked the Denon to power them because of its neutral sound.  My hope that by adding the Pioneer SX-850 I can make them slightly less fatiguing.  I could buy something like the  Emotiva EXP-2 at 300 watts x 2 to power the fronts entirely and leave the Denon to just drive the center and rears.  However I am concerned that the Emotiva being on the brighter side could make the problem worse.

 

Thanks for the input.  Thanks in advance 

post #20024 of 20190
^^
Not recommended as noted in the Owner's manual.
post #20025 of 20190
Bottom line: Don't try to bi-amp with the internal amps AND an external amp. If you want more power, just power the fronts with the Pio SX-850 directly, forget about "passive bi-amping".
post #20026 of 20190

Thanks guys.  I will try running fronts off of just the power amp then.

 

I understand that the bi-amp setup where the SX-850 powers only one set of drivers on the l890s negates the benefit of relieving the load on the Denon as it would still be using all seven internal amps.  For my understanding why isn’t it a good idea to use a power amp and the internal amp for each set of drivers on a bi-ampable speaker?  Would there be perceptible volume issues based on the different efficiencies of the two amps?  Like maybe the Denon internal amp might be more efficient than the pioneer power amp at a given volume resulting in unbalanced sound from my speaker.

 

 

Batpig:  How much wattage does the Denon realistically push per channel; when all seven amps are in use?

Would using the SX-850 to drive one set of the surrounds and then reassign those two free internal denon amps to bi-amp the fronts be a better way to go?

post #20027 of 20190
Its not efficiency but how the different amps gain stages work that will unbalance the sound when biamping with different amps, at least sometimes. Passive biamping has a real, versus theoretical, chance of adding about 25 percent to max clean power. The tweeter just doesn't need much power with real content. Thats a theoretical one decibel increase. You need 3 dB (double the power) to get "one notch" louder. And if you aren't distorting with the internal amps the added unused power makes no audible difference
post #20028 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by In the Round View Post

I understand that the bi-amp setup where the SX-850 powers only one set of drivers on the l890s negates the benefit of relieving the load on the Denon as it would still be using all seven internal amps.  For my understanding why isn’t it a good idea to use a power amp and the internal amp for each set of drivers on a bi-ampable speaker? 

As JHaz noted, it would be a nightmare to try and align the two gain structures, and you wouldn't be getting any actual benefit for your troubles. The mid/tweeter require very little power to drive, so if you want to add more power to the fronts (and offload two channels of amplification from the receiver) then just use the SX-850 directly to amp them.

Quote:
Batpig:  How much wattage does the Denon realistically push per channel; when all seven amps are in use?

See here: http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-3808ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Quote:
Would using the SX-850 to drive one set of the surrounds and then reassign those two free internal denon amps to bi-amp the fronts be a better way to go?

Not necessarily. You don't really gain that much benefit from "receiver bi-amping" anyway. And the surrounds aren't taking up much power so "relieving" the receiver of a pair of surround speakers isn't going to have that much benefit in increased headroom.
post #20029 of 20190
I have never tried bi-amping speakers but if you search the forums you'll see that most folks don't really recommend this type (passive) bi-amping. I think many fall in the trap of "I can so I should". Go ahead and experiment but since you can't do quick A/B testing you won't really be able to compare unless the difference is truly dramatic.
post #20030 of 20190

Thank you gentlemen.  That cleared things up for me.   

post #20031 of 20190
After 6 years, the HDMI out on my AVR-3808CI has stopped working. At first I thought it was some sort of HDMI handshake issue, but it got progressively worse and now won't work at all. Multiple hard resets did not make a different. Everything else works, but I miss having the on screen display. I'm wondering if anyone else has had this problem and if so, did they have the unit repaired, and what did it cost. I'm also considering replacing it with a Pioneer or Onkyo since this the second Denon receiver I've own that has crapped out on me after 5 years or so. Thanks.
post #20032 of 20190
^ Could be the HDMI connector got stressed and is now not making contact on one or more pins. Gotta be careful with HDMI cables going into HDMI conns, best to support the cables so there's no stress. This is a common problem with these HDMI conns, any and all brands, and with only one output your options are limited. That is if it's just the connector...maybe get someone to wiggle it and see if you get some response. You certainly won't find Onkyo AVRs more reliable, Pioneer's better. smile.gif

You know, you can get your menus via another format, like component or composite. For instance, I used the composite output to a separate small display. Less cables than component, and quality didn't matter for menus. And most displays will allow showing multiple inputs on split-screen i.e. Denon menus via component/composite, plus direct source input (BDP, cable box, etc.)
post #20033 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ Could be the HDMI connector got stressed and is now not making contact on one or more pins. Gotta be careful with HDMI cables going into HDMI conns, best to support the cables so there's no stress. This is a common problem with these HDMI conns, any and all brands, and with only one output your options are limited. That is if it's just the connector...maybe get someone to wiggle it and see if you get some response. You certainly won't find Onkyo AVRs more reliable, Pioneer's better. smile.gif

You know, you can get your menus via another format, like component or composite. For instance, I used the composite output to a separate small display. Less cables than component, and quality didn't matter for menus. And most displays will allow showing multiple inputs on split-screen i.e. Denon menus via component/composite, plus direct source input (BDP, cable box, etc.)

I've tried to wiggle and unplug and plug in the HDMI connector, but it doesn't make a difference. I was also planning to set up the composite out as you described this afternoon. smile.gif
post #20034 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbrett View Post

I've tried to wiggle and unplug and plug in the HDMI connector, but it doesn't make a difference. I was also planning to set up the composite out as you described this afternoon. smile.gif

When you're working on the new connections take a flashlight and look into the hdmi connector to see if it has any lifted connector foils. This happened on mine within the first two years. Only way to fix is to replace the board with the HDMI and network stages on it.
post #20035 of 20190
All,

I'm getting some very annoying video distortion which reminds me of video compression artifacts. It seems to come and go, one moment I'm streaming an HD video from xbox live, then suddenly the video degrades. I thought it was a drop in bandwidth but Ive started to notice the same thing happening to different degrees in static images, like pictures viewed on apple tv, certain video games, and dvd movies played on my ps3. I've replaced the HDMI cable, turned off the upscaler, moved the HDMI connector from HDMI 1 to 2 and the problem persists. I also tried a new HDMI cable from the receiver TV out to the tv; no dice. Suspecting my receiver, I remove the 3808CI from the equation and plugged the xbox, ps3 , and apple tv directly to TV; the problem is solved. Unfortunately now have to pull the tv off the wall now when I want to plug in the former devices as my TV only has 3 HDMI inputs.

I'm hoping someone can recommend a fix (maybe a setting or reset) else I have to send this off for repair.
post #20036 of 20190
I wouldn't blame the receiver so fast. check your resolution setting (ie. things like "auto" or otherwise) in one setup (ie. thru the receiver) versus the other.
post #20037 of 20190
Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post

I wouldn't blame the receiver so fast. check your resolution setting (ie. things like "auto" or otherwise) in one setup (ie. thru the receiver) versus the other.

I'll give that a try. Thanks.

EDIT: Not having any luck. So far connecting any device to the receiver results in the same artifacts, I am including a set of images showing what I am dealing with.

Here is an image connecting the Apple TV directly to the TV.


Here is the same picture viewed using the Apple TV -> Receiver -> TV.


The same happens using different cables, using different resolutions, or when using different devices.
Edited by DMONTY - 11/6/13 at 6:42am
post #20038 of 20190
Does anybody know if Denon made Internet Radio AAC streaming work? Doesn't seem to work properly here, but I haven't used it on the 3808 for a while and might be doing something wrong. I know the original manual shows AAC as working in all modes except IR. Almost all of the stations I would listen to have changed to AAC in the meantime (actually, only one hasn't changed), still listed in vTuner/radiodenon since I guess all the newer AVRs can use them (e.g. my X4000 can).
post #20039 of 20190
In need of some suggestions here. Has anyone successfully connected their 3808 to a ps4? mine will flicker the ps4 screen a couple of times and then settle on black, no audio. direct connection between the ps4 and a sharp aquos (bought around the same time, 2007) is fine. I tried turning off the "auto" stuff in the ps4 (resolution, rgb, and one other acronym), but that didn't help. I've tried my old hdmi cable and the one shipped with the ps4. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
post #20040 of 20190
On the PS4, set the "Deep Color Output" setting to OFF
Edited by jdsmoothie - 11/16/13 at 3:41am
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