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Best DLP projector for under $10,000  

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
I'm looking at buying a digital projector for my dedicated HT room, and so far I am having trouble finding one that best suits my needs.

My screen will be 16x9, roughly 2.3 metres wide so I definetly want a PJ capable of a true 16x9 mode.

What DLP projectors under the $10,000 mark have the best overall picture quality? Obviously I'm after one that produces a very sharp bright picture, excellent blacks, and the less screen door and rainbow effect, the better.

As I plan to add a HD set top box in the near future I'm also after one that can come as close as possible to giving my HD resolution.

I've had a few people recommend the Yamaha DPX-1. Has anyone seen this projector in action? Due to location, I'm unable to see this projector for myself, but reviews indicate that it is one of the best DLP projectors currently on the market.

What do you guys think?
post #2 of 24
Try the new Seleco HT300. I haven't seen it yet, but judging from its ancestors, and the specs, it should be the best.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have never heard of Selecto projectors. Can you please tell me where I can find more info on them? (specs)

thanks.
post #4 of 24
Hi Space Monkey

Some info on the Selecos are here:

http://www.sim2selecousa.com/home.phtml

Are you talking 10k aussie or US?

Todd
post #5 of 24
Space Monkey,

Be sure to check out the Sharp 9000 as well. It has true 16x9 HD resolution (720x1280, a.k.a. 720p), 1100:1 contrast ratio and 800 lumens of brightness. I've chosen that model for my HT.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the info.

I'm talking about $10,000US (about $19,000AUS)..

I would actually rather limit my budget to around $15,000AUS (8,000US), but I am prepared to stretch it higher if it is worth it.
post #7 of 24
You might want to talk to Spizz, he is (I believe) looking at getting the Sharp 9000 and can probably help you with the aussie pricing.

You might also want to see what the JVC dilas go for, they are 4:3, but sxga resolution so even in 16:9 mode they exceed the 16:9 dlps for pixel count (but with high bulb cost, need for hush box etc.). Might also want to wait and see what the new Hitachi LCOS projector looks like.

And I assume since you specifically mentioned dlp, your not looking at the 16:9 lcds?

Todd
post #8 of 24
HI, i am from sydney and looking to buy a projector in the next 2 weeks, i have seen the sharp 9000E, the sanyo plv60, the toshiba mt7 and the sony 11ht. In my opinion, i think the sanyo plv60 is the best looking projector, the sharp 9000E also had a good image but the sanyo had a brighter and clearer picture. The sony 11ht looked good but not as good as the other two and the toshiba i wasnt impressed with. They were all showing on a white screen but i am going to buy a grayhawk which i hope will improve the picture even better. None of the projectors i saw had the screen door effect and i did not see the rainbow effect on the sharp 9000E. The price of the sharp 9000E is around 18,000 and the sanyo is around 14,000 and the sony around 13,000.
post #9 of 24
Hi Saw71

Just to let ya know, I was quoted 12,650 for the Sanyo over here.

Todd
post #10 of 24
Thread Starter 
saw: What was the Sanyo like at producing blacks? Its listed as having a contrast ratio of 700:1 which doesnt look as good as the specs for other projectors I was looking at.

I've been told that you shouldnt go for anything less than 800:1 if you want something close to true black. What do you think?
post #11 of 24
saw71- Where exactly in Sydney did you see the Sharp XV-Z9000E?

Space Monkey for your budget definetly check out the afforementioned Sharp XV-Z9000E. The price is $18,800 Australian (street is substantially less) and will be released in 2 weeks time. From all the reviews I have read and the images I have seen this will be the projector for me. Quiet, a 16:9 Native DLP chip, 2 sets of component inputs, 5 imputs all up, etc, etc. Just need to confirm lamp replacement cost 1st. Setup with a DGTech HDTV Box will be a sight to see :)

Spero D.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Spizz - Checked out the 9000 specs and it looks awesome! 1100:1 contrast ratio sounds good to me :)

Do you know if this projector will display 576i & 576p in its native form? or convert it in some way? The reason I ask is I want to hook it up to a PAL progressive scan DVD player and a HD set top box.

Also do you know what the difference is between the 9000U and the 9000E? I could only find specs on the 9000U at Projector Central.

And what does it mean when a projector's resolution is listed as "compressed"? ( ie "1280x1024 compressed" )

Thanks for the info anyway dude. I look forward to seeing this projector in action :)
post #13 of 24
Hi,

The sharp 9000E was on display at home theatre technologies at caringbah, It was a valuation model they had and should be in with the next week or so and if i pre order one they will do it at $18,000. I thought the black levels looked good on all the projectors, the blacks looked black to me and was not a problem.
Im buying my projector in around 2 weeks and i think it will be the sanyo plv60 that i will buy. Im not sure wether to get a white screen for around $1000 or to pay an extra $4000 or so and get a grayhawk. Some of my dvd movies i have are region 1 and i will be ordering more so i think i may need to buy a progressive scan dvd player, i currently have a pioneer 344, toshiba and sony have one at around $3000 and jvc have one around $1200 and philips just released a new progressive scan dvd player for $1200 which is a very nice looking unit
post #14 of 24
Thanks saw71 for the reply. $800 off how kind of them ;) I would look elsewhere for a better discount personally.

Just a heads up . I just heard from a salesman (so take this as you will) that apparently the Sharp XV-Z9000 is being modified (either by firmware, or a hard mod) to accept the 60Hz signal from the DGTech box for our HDTV system. Will let you know when I confirm or hear more.

Spero D.
post #15 of 24
Spizz, have u seen the sharp or the sanyo or other projectors, are you sure that you will be buying the sharp, what type of screen will you be using. What type of dvd player have u got or will be buying one and what type and do u have region 1 dvds.
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Spizz, have u seen the sharp or the sanyo or other projectors
As I already have a native 16:9 LCD projector my next projector that I want to get has to be a 16:9 native DLP for all the advantages that DLP brings over LCD. In answer to your question I have not seen the Sanyo projector. I did however see the Sony VPL-11HT and thought it was a nice projector however pixel structure and black level were the downpoints. The fan noise was great and that is how quiet I would like my next projector to be.

Quote:
Are you sure that you will be buying the sharp,
As soon as I hear what the lamp replacement cost is here in Australia and see it in person I will make a decision.

Quote:
what type of screen will you be using.
Da-Lite 16:9 90" Cosmopolitan Electrol.

Quote:
What type of dvd player have u got or will be buying one
I am using a Toshiba SD-2108 DVD player and will purchase along with the projector a progressive Scan DVD player. I am however waiting for the new Progressive DVD players from Pioneer & Denon as they will feature Multichannel SACD Playback, DVD-Audio Playback & Progressive Scan in both PAL & NTSC with a firmware hack.

Quote:
and do u have region 1 dvds.
About 400 Region 1 DVDs and about 20 R4 and few Region 2's.

Spero D.
post #17 of 24
Greetings,

For those folks considering a GrayHawk -- there seems to be a huge price difference on this screen depending upon two factors:

1) Does it roll up, or is it fixed?

2) Is it perforated so that a speaker can be mounted behind it?

If the answers to these are, "fixed" and "no", the price is not outrageous. If the screen rolls up or especially if it's perforated, the price seems to go up several fold.

So, if you don't need a hideaway screen or one with a speaker behind it, consider the fixed wall mount, which should be fairly affordable.

I'm planning to use a Stewart 1.8 gain white screen (Videomatte 200) with the Sharp, at least at first, since it was a hand-me-down from a friend who switched to a GrayHawk.

When I saw the Sharp demonstrated locally, it was on a ~2.0 gain DaLite screen, and looked great. I later saw it in the same room with a GrayHawk, and didn't find it substantially changed, although it seemed dimmer. So, I'm not sure that the GrayHawk is necessary. Since the white screen was free, it doesn't hurt to try! :)
post #18 of 24
I dont know much about screen or what gain is, same with projectors, i dont know about resolution or interlaced or iscan and other stuff people talk about, all i know is that when i saw the projectors they were showing on a white screen and the sanyo and sharp looked good and by reading the forums i take it that the greyhawk will make the picture quality even better.
A white screen costs around $1000 where a greyhawk costs around $6000, thats australian dollars so double it to get US dollars. The only thing at the moment i will be using the projector for is for DVD movies and later on probably HDTV. The screen i will be getting will be a 16 X 9 and fixed to the wall. the distance from wall to wall is approx 15 feet and im thinking of 100" screen. I have another question, i know different movies have different ratios, when u play movies that have a 2:35:1, will u still get the black bars on the top and bottom and if u do is there a zoom to get rid of the bars and will it lose picture quailty
post #19 of 24
I don't know anything about the Seleco 300 but I did, quite a few time, demo the DWIN transvision vs. the Seleco 250.

It was a no brainer for me. Don't make your purchase without looking into the gem.

You can email with any specific questions.
Luck

dwdmguy@optonline.net
post #20 of 24
According to the posters budget $19,000 Australia, both the DWIN and/or Seleco would be outside that budget if purchased locally.

i.e.

-DWIN Transvision- $26,000 Australia (Price is for current DWIN Transvision and not the upcoming native 16:9 DLP)

-Seleco HT300 Native 16:9 DLP- $28,000 Australia (Approx. figure according to Vic Rep)

Spero D.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
I checked out the specs for the HT300, and while it certainly looks very impressive, $28,000 is way too much to pay for a projector.

The Sharp 9000 is the PJ that I'm most interested in at the moment. I'm hoping to see it in action this weekend.
post #22 of 24
Where is everyone getting these outrageous prices for the Greyhawk screens? I read an article recently in one of the home theater mags that said the Greyhawk sells for $18.30 per square foot. For a 110" diagonal screen that is roughly 8' x 4.5', that would come to about $658 (36 sq ft x $18.3). Is that mag wrong or does this sound right to those who own the Greyhawks?
post #23 of 24
opinions on the infocus lp 530? any negatives?
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by saw71
I dont know much about screen or what gain is, same with projectors, i dont know about resolution or interlaced or iscan and other stuff people talk about, all i know is that when i saw the projectors they were showing on a white screen and the sanyo and sharp looked good and by reading the forums i take it that the greyhawk will make the picture quality even better.
Okay, how about a quick summary.

Most projection screens are white, because white is the color that reflects all of the incoming spectrum of light. Now, white screens may have something called "gain" associated with them. Obviously, the screen can't emit more light than it receives. But, what it can do is focus that light. So, some screens are designed to take some of the incoming light that would ordinarily be reflected out to the sides, and focus it instead towards the seats directly in front of the screen. In essence, you trade viewing angle for brightness. The seats off to the side don't get as much light, but the seats up front get more.

There's a number associated with this gain (1.3, 1.5, 1.8) which indicates how much more light you get in front than you would with a screen that doesn't focus light output to the front seats. So, a 1.8 gain screen delivers 1.8x as much light. A screen that doesn't do this magic is called a 1.0 gain screen. If you check out the Stewart web site, there's a page describing each of their materials, and if you click on the "more technical information" links for each material, you can see the graphs showing how much light goes where. In general, a higher-gain screen will have a narrower viewing angle. Stewart's screen materials page is at: http://www.stewartfilm.com/home_cine...theater_3.html

Now, why a GrayHawk? DLP and D-ILA projectors are members of a category called "reflective" projectors -- a bright white light source bounces off of a chip which forms the image, and is focused through optics to the screen. (Alternatives are "transmissive" like LCD or light-emitting devices like CRT). Because the chips aren't perfect in their ability to absorb (or deflect) incoming light, they don't produce pure black. Some of the light still gets out, so blacks are a dark gray. However, these projectors can be quite bright (up to 2000 lumens in some models). So, the GrayHawk is a tradeoff. The gray screen (with a gain of .95) actually absorbs some of the light, making the dark grays even darker and more like black. The extra light output of the projector makes up for the reduced reflectivity.

So, is a GrayHawk well suited to a Sharp 9000? I'm not sure. I've seen the 9000 on both a high-gain white screen and a GrayHawk, and I found the white screen to be better. I didn't find that the GrayHawk improved the 9000 picture that much, and it did make it a bit dimmer.

How could this be? Well, keep in mind that most DLP and D-ILA projectors people have been using to date were designed for presentation purposes -- they were intended to produce a bright picture in a lit room. In this environment, light output is important, but true blacks aren't such a big deal.

On the other hand, I believe that some of the new crop of DLP projectors made specifically for home theater (including the 9000) have made the brightness-versus-contrast tradeoff internally. In fact, Marantz has been quoted on this forum as saying exactly that. The Sharp has (claimed) 1100:1 contrsast, but "only" 800 lumens of light output. So, when I saw the 9000 on the white screen, the picture looked very good. When I saw it on the GrayHawk, it looked very good, and somewhat dimmer. I don't think that the 9000 benefits as much from the GrayHawk as some of the earlier projectors.

Quote:
A white screen costs around $1000 where a greyhawk costs around $6000, thats australian dollars so double it to get US dollars.
I believe you mean to say "halve that" to get US dollars. What I was trying to point out in my last posting is that $3000US for a GrayHawk is way out of line in the size you quoted, if you use a fixed wall mount and don't get a perforated screen or variable masking. You should be able to get a fixed, non-perfed GrayHawk for under $1500US, and possibly under $1000 if you shop carefully and the import/export situation doesn't cause trouble.

Quote:
I have another question, i know different movies have different ratios, when u play movies that have a 2:35:1, will u still get the black bars on the top and bottom and if u do is there a zoom to get rid of the bars and will it lose picture quailty
You can't really use zoom to get rid of the bars. You'll either distort the picture or lose the sides. What people typically do (if they don't just ignore it) is to use a variable mask system. Basically, you can bring black panels or curtains in from the top and bottom of the screen to hide the portions of the screen that aren't getting image on a 2.35 source. The black material (usually velvet or similar) is amazingly good at absorbing the light, so you get a very nice result. If you plan to watch a significant amount of 4:3, you can also get side masks.

The Stewart web site shows all these options, and Stewart will happily sell you a motorized variable mask, but that really will be expensive -- around $6000US with a non-perforated fixed GrayHawk. I'm intending to build my own, based on a design that my friend used on his screen. I will probably not motorize it at first, so it will be quite inexpensive. It will be designed to allow later motorization.

I hope this was helpful!
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