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Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 6423
10/15/07 at 5:33pm
Upgraded PC1000 to PC2000
This past April I purchased the ProCinema1000 system (4 PM1000's, ProSub1000, and PC1000). I wanted the PC2000 but was informed that was a special order only (UE) and may take 8 or more weeks. Wanting instant gratification, I took the PC1000 and had been very pleased with the overall sound quality of the system. Reading through the threads, I wondered if I was missing something by having different sized drivers between my PM1000's and the PC1000. There were/are a lot of folks that claimed to hear a difference. I encountered an audio installer who had the PC2000 centers in stock and I purchased one. After installing the new center, I recalibrated the system with my Yamaha 659 receiver and noticed a difference. While the PC1000 center did a very admirable job of blending with the PM1000's, having the same bass and midrange drivers now with the PC2000 was actually noticeble to me. I know people have different levels of hearing sensitivity but I noticed a difference. Some of this improvement was probably due to the now matched drivers and some of the improvement was probably due to the auto calibration tweaking the settings appropriately now that the drivers all matched. Was this improved necessary? Absolutely not however, I am one of those folks who is always seeking to tweak and improve things as much as I possibly can and this would have been one improvement in the back of my mind always bugging me, so I took advantage and upgraded when I could do so easily (but not too cheaply). If someone is starting this system from scratch, I highly recommend the PC2000 with the PM1000's and ProSub1000 however, you can live happily with the PC1000. Also, if anyone is looking for a good deal on a gently used Def Tech PC1000, please send me a PM. These Def Tech's are an excellent system that provide solid sound quality and range, both for HT and music, along with a relatively small footprint for maximum WAF!
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post #242 of 6423
10/15/07 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphland View Post

I have really enjoyed the sound from the 600 5.1 I purchased. They look clean wall mounted and for my room are plenty. My reciever is 6.1 capable and I am curious what would be a good choice for a single rear?

Boy it would be handy to buy a single 600.

I was thinking of upgrading the 2 fronts to 800s and move the one 600 to the rear (and get a 7.1 reciever down the road).

I really don't have the cash now to get a new center, would that be an odd mix? 800s with a 600 center.

If so any tips on a decent single speaker for the rear that has a similar look to the Dev Techs?

Appreciate the time...

Murph

Have you listened to a 6.1 or even 7.1 system? Can you tell the difference? I can't. IMHO I think anything past 5.1 is a gimmick. Have you noticed how little sound comes through the surround speakers anyway?

I'd save my money and get a better receiver, maybe an HD or Bluray player, better center speaker, etc.

Just my 2 cents, you can vote with your own wallet the way you see fit
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post #243 of 6423
10/15/07 at 6:16pm
has anyone used abt.com that was reffered to earlier in the thread? Are they trustworthy? Authorized dealer? The price they gave me for the promonitor 800's and the procenter1000 was very good but I wanted to hear a little about them first.
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post #244 of 6423
10/15/07 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by czwsecurity View Post

has anyone used abt.com that was reffered to earlier in the thread? Are they trustworthy? Authorized dealer? The price they gave me for the promonitor 800's and the procenter1000 was very good but I wanted to hear a little about them first.

Yes, they are authorized, that's where I got my DefTech 800 package and a Denon receiver. Fast service, no problems at all.
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post #245 of 6423
10/16/07 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by czwsecurity View Post

has anyone used abt.com that was reffered to earlier in the thread? Are they trustworthy? Authorized dealer? The price they gave me for the promonitor 800's and the procenter1000 was very good but I wanted to hear a little about them first.

Yes they are a Authorized dealer and very consumer friendly. I live and work 5 miles from their huge store and have bought many products, from speakers to washer and dryers all without any problems.
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post #246 of 6423
10/16/07 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

Yes, they are authorized, that's where I got my DefTech 800 package and a Denon receiver. Fast service, no problems at all.

Thank you both for the references. I ordered 4 of the promonitor 800's and the procenter 1000. I was very impressed when I listened to them at Magnolia, and ABT gave me a price I (or more importantly, my wife) couldnt say no to. Ordered last night and got the tracking # today already. Hopefully my A2-300 will arrive round the same time
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post #247 of 6423
10/16/07 at 6:38pm
I 'm thinking about getting the Onkyo 705 and the Definitive Technology ProCinema 600's any pro's and con's out there?
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post #248 of 6423
10/16/07 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlawrencemsc View Post

I 'm thinking about getting the Onkyo 705 and the Definitive Technology ProCinema 600's any pro's and con's out there?

Get the 800's if you can afford them. As for the receiver, keep in mind that the Onkyo runs VERY HOT and I mean burning hot. I think there are better choices when it comes to receivers. I started with an Onkyo 605 and a 600 package but then got the 800's instead and a Denon - I'm much happier now.
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post #249 of 6423
10/16/07 at 6:58pm
I recently got a set of cinema 800's (800 monitors, 800 sub, and 1000 center). I got it wired to a denon 2808 that is calibrated with the internal calibration thinggy (audysey stuff) If the receiver is setting up its own crossover settings should I be running with the subs crossover wide open to 150hz? If I set the sub to say 100 and the receiver sets the crossover to 120 wouldn't that leave a hole?
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post #250 of 6423
10/16/07 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy- View Post

I recently got a set of cinema 800's (800 monitors, 800 sub, and 1000 center). I got it wired to a denon 2808 that is calibrated with the internal calibration thinggy (audysey stuff) If the receiver is setting up its own crossover settings should I be running with the subs crossover wide open to 150hz? If I set the sub to say 100 and the receiver sets the crossover to 120 wouldn't that leave a hole?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but here's what I do on my system (I didn't like the results from Audyssey):

- I do NOT have the speakers wired to the sub as recommended in the Def Tech manual - that's old school, with modern receivers it's not needed, you just hook up the speakers to the receivers and run an RCA LFE cable to the sub

- Set the sub knob all the way up (150Hz) and don't touch it

- Set the sub volume about 1/3 of the way, from off

- Use an SPL meter to adjust each channel level to match

- Set all the crossovers in the receiver

Here's what I use:

Front/Rear: 100Hz
Center: 90Hz
LFE: 120Hz

The PC1000 may be able to go down to 80Hz and the PM800 down to 90Hz. There's an article that claims the best crossover is 75-80Hz all around. I don't know what to think, the settings above sound good enough to me.

I think I posted in this thread a while back explaining what the LFE setting above means (it's not that obvious, even if you set LFE at 80Hz it doesn't mean you have a gap).
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post #251 of 6423
10/16/07 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

I'm not sure I understand your question, but here's what I do on my system (I didn't like the results from Audyssey):

- I do NOT have the speakers wired to the sub as recommended in the Def Tech manual - that's old school, with modern receivers it's not needed, you just hook up the speakers to the receivers and run an RCA LFE cable to the sub

- Set the sub knob all the way up (150Hz) and don't touch it

- Set the sub volume about 1/3 of the way, from off

- Use an SPL meter to adjust each channel level to match

- Set all the crossovers in the receiver

Here's what I use:

Front/Rear: 100Hz
Center: 90Hz
LFE: 120Hz

The PC1000 may be able to go down to 80Hz and the PM800 down to 90Hz. There's an article that claims the best crossover is 75-80Hz all around. I don't know what to think, the settings above sound good enough to me.

I think I posted in this thread a while back explaining what the LFE setting above means (it's not that obvious, even if you set LFE at 80Hz it doesn't mean you have a gap).

Thanks... I saw it mentioned here that it was recommended to set the crossover on the sub to 90. My receiver (auto config) was crossing the speakers at 120 so there would be a hole in the 90-120 range, right? Was just making sure it was ok to run the sub crossed at 150.

The knob on the side of the sub.... what does that controll? I assume it's the level. I just set mine to 12 o'clock position and let the amp automatically adjust the level. Is there any reason as to why I'd want to run it lower or higher?
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post #252 of 6423
10/16/07 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sy- View Post

Thanks... I saw it mentioned here that it was recommended to set the crossover on the sub to 90. My receiver (auto config) was crossing the speakers at 120 so there would be a hole in the 90-120 range, right? Was just making sure it was ok to run the sub crossed at 150.

The knob on the side of the sub.... what does that controll? I assume it's the level. I just set mine to 12 o'clock position and let the amp automatically adjust the level. Is there any reason as to why I'd want to run it lower or higher?

There's not going to be a gap between 90-120 even if you set the LFE at 90.

The knob on the side is the volume, I have mine set to about 1/3. You need to match the level to the speaker volume levels using an SPL meter (or maybe Audyssey does a good enough job).

There's another knob on the back of the sub, that controls the sub crossover, you want that all the way up at 150.
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post #253 of 6423
10/17/07 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

Get the 800's if you can afford them. As for the receiver, keep in mind that the Onkyo runs VERY HOT and I mean burning hot. I think there are better choices when it comes to receivers. I started with an Onkyo 605 and a 600 package but then got the 800's instead and a Denon - I'm much happier now.

I have a 705 and I think its a great reciever. Two months now and not a single problem. Yeh it runs a little hot so what, and mine does not run burning hot I can touch and keep my hand on the case, it has two fans on the underside of the case. The onkyo comes with a 2 year warranty if your worried about the AVR. The heat issue has become a none factor in the 705 thread, with a few over worried people adding a PC fan or two, which think is not needed unless you are stacking equipment in a closed cabinet.
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post #254 of 6423
10/17/07 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlawrencemsc View Post

I 'm thinking about getting the Onkyo 705 and the Definitive Technology ProCinema 600's any pro's and con's out there?

I have the 705 and it's a pretty nice piece of kit. Claims that it runs "super hot" aren't exactly true. The 605 and 805 do run quite hot, but the 705 has two internal fans (totally quiet...don't worry) that keep it just toasty (I can easily keep my hand on it even after a long movie).

I agree with the advice that the 800's represent a significant step up in sound quality at an almost trivial increase in cost ($200 or so).
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post #255 of 6423
10/17/07 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf View Post

The 605 and 805 do run quite hot, but the 705 has two internal fans (totally quiet...don't worry) that keep it just toasty (I can easily keep my hand on it even after a long movie).

Ah, I was not aware the 705 added 2 fans, I wonder why they did that I hope the fans are not noisy though. From what I've seen in the past, Onkyos and Integras run very hot. My Denon only has passive cooling and it gets just warm to the touch, my ex-605 was burning my hand. As for the solution I saw in the threads where people added fans to the 805 or 605 ... no thanks, if I pay that much for a receiver, I expect it to just work out of the box without any ugly mods.
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post #256 of 6423
10/17/07 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

Ah, I was not aware the 705 added 2 fans, I wonder why they did that I hope the fans are not noisy though. From what I've seen in the past, Onkyos and Integras run very hot. My Denon only has passive cooling and it gets just warm to the touch, my ex-605 was burning my hand. As for the solution I saw in the threads where people added fans to the 805 or 605 ... no thanks, if I pay that much for a receiver, I expect it to just work out of the box without any ugly mods.

Not to get too OT (but since you asked), the 705 was introduced later than the 605 and 805, which both came out about the same time. I suspect Onkyo figured out the 6/8 ran too hot and added fans in the 705 because there was space. And yes, they're quiet...I can't hear my 705 regardless of the temp (you can check fan speed via the front LCD). Of course, I have mine in an open rack (no sides) with nothing below it and 4" of clear space above it, so it's adequately ventilated. Does it run hotter than my old Yamaha AVR? Yep, but then it also has 7x100W, too. I expect it will be a pretty nice match to a ProCinema setup once it's safe to further refine the home theater (too much wifely attention lately to make significant upgrades). ;-)
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post #257 of 6423
10/17/07 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

Have you listened to a 6.1 or even 7.1 system? Can you tell the difference? I can't. IMHO I think anything past 5.1 is a gimmick. Have you noticed how little sound comes through the surround speakers anyway?

I'd save my money and get a better receiver, maybe an HD or Bluray player, better center speaker, etc.

Just my 2 cents, you can vote with your own wallet the way you see fit

Yeah I have been doing some testing and you are right. The actual audio from the rears is minimal. Wanted an opinion and for me spending money elsewhere will not be a problem.

Appreciate the time...

Murph
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post #258 of 6423
10/18/07 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMU83 View Post

Upgraded PC1000 to PC2000
This past April I purchased the ProCinema1000 system (4 PM1000's, ProSub1000, and PC1000). I wanted the PC2000 but was informed that was a special order only (UE) and may take 8 or more weeks. Wanting instant gratification, I took the PC1000 and had been very pleased with the overall sound quality of the system. Reading through the threads, I wondered if I was missing something by having different sized drivers between my PM1000's and the PC1000. There were/are a lot of folks that claimed to hear a difference. I encountered an audio installer who had the PC2000 centers in stock and I purchased one. After installing the new center, I recalibrated the system with my Yamaha 659 receiver and noticed a difference. While the PC1000 center did a very admirable job of blending with the PM1000's, having the same bass and midrange drivers now with the PC2000 was actually noticeble to me. I know people have different levels of hearing sensitivity but I noticed a difference. Some of this improvement was probably due to the now matched drivers and some of the improvement was probably due to the auto calibration tweaking the settings appropriately now that the drivers all matched. Was this improved necessary? Absolutely not however, I am one of those folks who is always seeking to tweak and improve things as much as I possibly can and this would have been one improvement in the back of my mind always bugging me, so I took advantage and upgraded when I could do so easily (but not too cheaply). If someone is starting this system from scratch, I highly recommend the PC2000 with the PM1000's and ProSub1000 however, you can live happily with the PC1000. Also, if anyone is looking for a good deal on a gently used Def Tech PC1000, please send me a PM. These Def Tech's are an excellent system that provide solid sound quality and range, both for HT and music, along with a relatively small footprint for maximum WAF!

If you really want to hear a change in sound replace your front 1000's with SM350's, much more open sound stage and goes very well with the PC2000. But a word of caution the 350's sound so nice you may find yourself just listening to them (music) only.
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post #259 of 6423
10/18/07 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

If you really want to hear a change in sound replace your front 1000's with SM350's, much more open sound stage and goes very well with the PC2000. But a word of caution the 350's sound so nice you may find yourself just listening to them (music) only.

I will be looking for two speakers to install as a Zone 2 in the near future. This will be in the room where our pool table currently resides. I have already PM'd another poster about upgrading my FL/FR to the SM350's and move the current set of PM1000's into the pool room. From the various notes about the SM350's, they sound like a perfect match to expand both the music and the HT experience. I just have to save a bit more to close the deal. I have been really pleased with the Def Tech speakers to date and look forward to adding the SM350's.
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post #260 of 6423
10/18/07 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphland View Post

Yeah I have been doing some testing and you are right. The actual audio from the rears is minimal. Wanted an opinion and for me spending money elsewhere will not be a problem.

Appreciate the time...

Murph

First, you need to calibrate your speakers. This may be why the rear sound stage is so quiet. Also, you need to remember the source. Many movies don't use the rear sound stage.

Also, 6.1 and 7.1 are not a gimmick. I have BPX side speakers that are about 6.5' off the ground. Because of my room layout, my couch is slightly behind my side speakers. By adding a PM 800 to the rear, it really increased the surround experience.
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post #261 of 6423
10/18/07 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

If you really want to hear a change in sound replace your front 1000's with SM350's, much more open sound stage and goes very well with the PC2000. But a word of caution the 350's sound so nice you may find yourself just listening to them (music) only.



Have you compared the 350's to the PM 200's? I am considering upgrading from my 200's, and I am looking for a speaker that has a similar footprint.
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post #262 of 6423
10/19/07 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAMU83 View Post

I will be looking for two speakers to install as a Zone 2 in the near future. This will be in the room where our pool table currently resides. I have already PM'd another poster about upgrading my FL/FR to the SM350's and move the current set of PM1000's into the pool room. From the various notes about the SM350's, they sound like a perfect match to expand both the music and the HT experience. I just have to save a bit more to close the deal. I have been really pleased with the Def Tech speakers to date and look forward to adding the SM350's.

You should notice a very nice improvement in the front end with the 350's. The 350's have changed my listening habits, i am listening to more music, I've even dusted off some old LP's and hooked up my reel-to-reel, (I'm as old as dust myself). Only regret is that i wish i got the 450's, Chet from DT said if i was using the speakers w/o a sub the 450's would be better choice. Still very, very happy with the 350's.
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post #263 of 6423
10/19/07 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdyone View Post

Have you compared the 350's to the PM 200's? I am considering upgrading from my 200's, and I am looking for a speaker that has a similar footprint.

Sorry i'm not fimilar with the PM200's, how old are they and what size foot print?
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post #264 of 6423
10/19/07 at 12:58pm
the PM 200's are about 14" tall and about 12" deep. I am not sure of the size of the driver but they are larger than my my PM 200 center. The PM 200 series came and went very quickly. I bought these speakers back in 2002 and love them! I recently upgraded from a pro sub 100 to a super cube 3 and I can't believe the difference.
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post #265 of 6423
10/19/07 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdyone View Post

the PM 200's are about 14" tall and about 12" deep. I am not sure of the size of the driver but they are larger than my my PM 200 center. The PM 200 series came and went very quickly. I bought these speakers back in 2002 and love them! I recently upgraded from a pro sub 100 to a super cube 3 and I can't believe the difference.

I think the SM450's may be a similar replacement at least for size.
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...tor.html#sm450
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post #266 of 6423
10/20/07 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

I think the SM450's may be a similar replacement at least for size.
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...tor.html#sm450

I have the same SM350's as you, Plex. I love them. Significant audio upgrade from the Pro Monitor series... especially for music. Although, HT is awesome, too

They'd probably be closer in size than the 450's. And, if he has the super cube, then the low end advantage of the 450's isn't as great.
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post #267 of 6423
10/20/07 at 3:43pm
Quote:


Originally Posted by SirDracula
Have you listened to a 6.1 or even 7.1 system? Can you tell the difference? I can't. IMHO I think anything past 5.1 is a gimmick. Have you noticed how little sound comes through the surround speakers anyway?

I'd save my money and get a better receiver, maybe an HD or Bluray player, better center speaker, etc.

Just my 2 cents, you can vote with your own wallet the way you see fit

I think a lot depends on your room configuration. The back of my room is wide open into the kitchen. Going to 7.1 really created a better sound field for me. Also, don't blame the tech for lack of source material. Gladiator in 6.1 with the 6th channel going into both rear surrounds really enhanced the movie. PS3 games in 7.1 PCM also sound great.
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post #268 of 6423
10/21/07 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevec325 View Post

I have the same SM350's as you, Plex. I love them. Significant audio upgrade from the Pro Monitor series... especially for music. Although, HT is awesome, too

They'd probably be closer in size than the 450's. And, if he has the super cube, then the low end advantage of the 450's isn't as great.

Steve, i do agree with that fact that the slightly larger size of 450's would not have a great improment over the 350's using the SC. My point is, if you listen to the 350/450 just on their own merits the 450 would have better bass. It is all DefTechs fault, if the 350' didn't sound so dam good just by themselves we would not be having this decussion.

Side note: Upgraded my sub to SVS PC20-39+ (wife didn't want to see any sub at all), you right SVS is the best.
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post #269 of 6423
10/21/07 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plex View Post

Steve, i do agree with that fact that the slightly larger size of 450's would not have a great improment over the 350's using the SC. My point is, if you listen to the 350/450 just on their own merits the 450 would have better bass. It is all DefTechs fault, if the 350' didn't sound so dam good just by themselves we would not be having this decussion.

Side note: Upgraded my sub to SVS PC20-39+ (wife didn't want to see any sub at all), you right SVS is the best.

I knew you'd love that SVS

And yes... totally agree that the 450's alone, have more bottom end than the 350's. But they are both killer speakers. I am still loving them, even after 6 months. Every time I play them, it's like the first time all over agian.
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post #270 of 6423
10/22/07 at 12:13pm
Finally got my ProCinema 800 setup to my new HK AVR-347. It sounds great. The bass is so much better than the ~400 Onkyo HTIB I used to have (non-amplified sub).

I have all the speakers set to small and 100 Hz crossover. The Sub cross over is all the way over to 150 Hz and gain is about 12 o'clock.

We watched The Bourne Supremacy at about -20 dB, and it was awesome. I didn't want to start off the system too loud but the detail, clarity, effects, it was all there. I'm pumped about fine tuning this baby.
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