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Definitive Technology ProCinema Series 600/800/1000 (or 60/80/100) Thread - Page 224

post #6691 of 7193
Ok guys finally got everything set-up...here's a pic.....
post #6692 of 7193
Que
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

HI RP, on the one had you are absolutely right that if someone wants to save some cash, the rear / side speakers are a much better place to do so than in the center, fronts, or sub (s).

Still, one of the biggest leaps forward from the original Dolby Pro Logic is that now, the rear speakers are capable of full range, so they can deliver low frequencies just as well as the rest of the system. Side / rear speakers of massive proportions aren't a waste of money. But they are the place to cut back a bit if you're trying to put a great LCR / sub combo together and something in the system budget must give. Best, Joe
post #6693 of 7193
Question on Audyssey mic. If my room is longer than the mic cable can I simply extend the mic cable to reach the sofa ? Room is 24 ft long.
post #6694 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpridgen View Post

Question on Audyssey mic. If my room is longer than the mic cable can I simply extend the mic cable to reach the sofa ? Room is 24 ft long.
Yes, but unless you have a twelve foot wide screen you shouldn't be that far away, both the sight and sound will suffer as a result. If the other room dimension is shorter you should move everything to the wide wall.
post #6695 of 7193
I'm still somewhat a newbie learning this so apologies in advance.

My (now 1 year old) Definitive Procenter 1000 seems just a bit weak (slightly muddy/dull sound). For example, there are times when dialogue seems slightly overwhelmed by my Left's and Right's. I always blamed it on the media content itself until I started seeing a trend across all types of blu-rays. It's enough where I pick up on the difference but the average listener (e.g. my girlfriend) can't.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like the Procenter 1000 is very, very good, but I wasn't as "wow'ed" by it as others are.

My Current Setup
Receiver: Onkyo HT-R390 -- it's part of the Onkyo HT-S3400 HTIB (entry-level, yes, but it's essentially a standalone receiver based on features. This Newegg Link shows pictures of the receiver's connectivity).
Center: Definitive Procenter 1000
L/R: Definitive Promoniter 800's
Rear L/R: the speakers that come with the HT-S3400
Subwoofer: it's a Passive sub that comes with the HT-S3400

  • I have already calibrated all speakers to to 75db using an SPL meter.
  • Crossover is at 80hz.
  • Speaker Distance is equal for the fronts.
  • All 3 fronts sit about 3ft from each other.
  • The media that I use to "judge" the sound is always transmitted via PCM for loseless quality.

Do you think that the slight muddy/dull audio quality is due to my receiver? It's on the "weaker" side but based on the speaker impedance, the Definitives require less power to drive (8ohms) versus the stock speakers (6ohms).

Or perhaps my Passive Subwoofer isn't doing a good job of filling in the bass (as I know lack of adequate bass is a weakness of the Procenter 1000) at 80hz crossover?
post #6696 of 7193
Comp625,

With a passive sub, I assume your L/R speaker wires connect to the sub first, and then the L/R speakers are connected to the sub's speaker-out terminals.

This is not really a subwoofer, in HT terms. It's just a woofer, and the connection between it and the L/R speakers together constitute a single stereo pair that should be considered "large" in your speaker setup, and not crossed over at all.

Setting the L/R+Sub to "large," center and surrounds to "small," subwoofer to "none," and a 100Hz crossover will have the following results:

The LFE (".1") channel will be sent to the mains/sub; the crossover built into the sub (which you should set to about 100Hz) will split the signal between the sub and the speakers.

The bass intended for the L/R channels will go to the L/R+sub.

The bass below 100Hz intended for the center and surrounds will also go to the L/R+sub.

I'd suggest making this change first and then see if you still need to work on the center.
Edited by rdclark - 10/24/13 at 8:46pm
post #6697 of 7193
Man rdclark, def tech really needs to put you on the payroll! You're responses are so thorough and informative. I've learned an immense amount about this series just by reading your replies. I'm intrigued by these satellites (if that's what we would call them) and am looking to put together a decent 2.1 system for my small tv watching/stereo listening room upstairs. Would the PM1000s for L/R and a ID sub be a good start?
post #6698 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cla55clown View Post

Man rdclark, def tech really needs to put you on the payroll! You're responses are so thorough and informative. I've learned an immense amount about this series just by reading your replies. I'm intrigued by these satellites (if that's what we would call them) and am looking to put together a decent 2.1 system for my small tv watching/stereo listening room upstairs. Would the PM1000s for L/R and a ID sub be a good start?

The PM1000 is a fine speaker. You do pay for its compactness; if size is not an issue you can find many recommendations for equally fine speakers than may cost less, but they will be bigger. It's a choice you make.

One reason I've become enthusiastic about DT is that they have a consistent sound across the line that makes them work well with each other in different configurations. (I'm sure the same is true of other premium speaker lines with which I'm less familiar.) The PM1000s you use for mains today can be surrounds tomorrow, and they will blend well with StudioMonitors or BP towers that replace them.

Your idea to use PM1000s with an Internet sub is also sound. Pick a sub that gives you the performance and characteristics you're looking for; there's no issue of "timbre matching" when it comes to subs. That's what I did when I bought ProCinema series speakers but matched them with an Emotiva sub.
post #6699 of 7193
Thanks for the reply, rdclark. By Passive, I meant that the sub is powered by the Receiver. The back of my Sub has no other controls or inputs.

Everything gets hooked into the Receiver -- the Center, L/R, Rear L/R, Subwoofer.

Here's a picture of the back of my subwoofer (courtesy of Newegg).

post #6700 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp625 View Post

Thanks for the reply, rdclark. By Passive, I meant that the sub is powered by the Receiver. The back of my Sub has no other controls or inputs.


Everything gets hooked into the Receiver -- the Center, L/R, Rear L/R, Subwoofer.

Here's a picture of the back of my subwoofer (courtesy of Newegg).


Does your receiver have a sub output for that or are you running it in parallel with a speaker?
post #6701 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp625 View Post

Thanks for the reply, rdclark. By Passive, I meant that the sub is powered by the Receiver. The back of my Sub has no other controls or inputs.

Everything gets hooked into the Receiver -- the Center, L/R, Rear L/R, Subwoofer.

Here's a picture of the back of my subwoofer (courtesy of Newegg).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp625 View Post

Thanks for the reply, rdclark. By Passive, I meant that the sub is powered by the Receiver. The back of my Sub has no other controls or inputs.

Everything gets hooked into the Receiver -- the Center, L/R, Rear L/R, Subwoofer.

Here's a picture of the back of my subwoofer (courtesy of Newegg).


OK, I see. It's a real HTIB, with the sub's amp in the receiver. And with no actual subwoofer line out on the receiver, you can't substitute a powered sub. I hesitate to make any recommendations regarding such a system because there are too many unknowns; some systems like this even have built-in, non-defeatable pre-compensation for the bad speakers they ship with. Connecting different speakers to such systems produces undesirable results. Probably not the case here, but you can understand why I wouldn't want to get any deeper discussing something that's this non-standard.

Generally, making center channels sound better is a matter of (a) moving them to a better position, as close to ear level as possible and aimed directly at the listening position; (b) raising the center channel level by a couple of dB; and (c) tweaking the CC EQ in the 500-2000kHz range, if possible.
post #6702 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp625 View Post

I'm still somewhat a newbie learning this so apologies in advance.

My (now 1 year old) Definitive Procenter 1000 seems just a bit weak (slightly muddy/dull sound). For example, there are times when dialogue seems slightly overwhelmed by my Left's and Right's. I always blamed it on the media content itself until I started seeing a trend across all types of blu-rays. It's enough where I pick up on the difference but the average listener (e.g. my girlfriend) can't.

Don't get me wrong, I feel like the Procenter 1000 is very, very good, but I wasn't as "wow'ed" by it as others are.

My Current Setup
Receiver: Onkyo HT-R390 -- it's part of the Onkyo HT-S3400 HTIB (entry-level, yes, but it's essentially a standalone receiver based on features. This Newegg Link shows pictures of the receiver's connectivity).
Center: Definitive Procenter 1000
L/R: Definitive Promoniter 800's
Rear L/R: the speakers that come with the HT-S3400
Subwoofer: it's a Passive sub that comes with the HT-S3400

  • I have already calibrated all speakers to to 75db using an SPL meter.
  • Crossover is at 80hz.
  • Speaker Distance is equal for the fronts.
  • All 3 fronts sit about 3ft from each other.
  • The media that I use to "judge" the sound is always transmitted via PCM for loseless quality.

Do you think that the slight muddy/dull audio quality is due to my receiver? It's on the "weaker" side but based on the speaker impedance, the Definitives require less power to drive (8ohms) versus the stock speakers (6ohms).

Or perhaps my Passive Subwoofer isn't doing a good job of filling in the bass (as I know lack of adequate bass is a weakness of the Procenter 1000) at 80hz crossover?

Swap the pc1000 with a pm800 and play a Blu-ray that highlights the dull/muddy sound you are hearing. If the pm800 sounds significantly better you may have a issue with your pc1000.
post #6703 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post


Swap the pc1000 with a pm800 and play a Blu-ray that highlights the dull/muddy sound you are hearing. If the pm800 sounds significantly better you may have a issue with your pc1000.

So I think I figured out my issue. It started with watching Star Trek: Into Darkness and my girlfriend's mom made a comment about how action movies have special audio effects that overwhelm dialogue. My girlfriend and I both noticed this same overwhelming effect when we watched it in the theaters, too.

This led me to research online. It is apparently very common for action movies to be mixed in a way that special effects are over-emphasized. Similarly, it is also apparently popular for audio enthusiasts to have their Center Channel "run hot" by about +3db. Some are aggressive and even run their Center Channel by +5db to +6db.

So while my whole setup is calibrated via an SPL Meter to 75db, I temporarily ran my Center Channel at +3db from calibration and it seemed to drastically help. I am toying with going up to +4db and even to +5db.

Additionally, I learned about how my awkwardly L-shaped room, along with regular everyday window treatments can throw off an SPL reading. This explains why my rear speakers seemed to overwhelm by front soundstage (even though, again, everything was at 75db). I bumped the rears down by -3db and it made a WORLD of a difference.

I'm going to play with everything some more over the next few days, but it looks like I may have solved my issue! *fingers crossed*
post #6704 of 7193
Ok, time to run Audyssey and tweak if needed. When I'm done what blu ray movie should I watch? It there a partcular movie that is comonly referred to as the best to test 5.1 surround sound? I'm thinking Jurrasic Park but that one may be a bit dated

Suggestions?

Thanks.
post #6705 of 7193
For Crystal clear sound kungfu panda is my choice
post #6706 of 7193
Looks great. And Herman Munster is a relative:D
post #6707 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGHUNTER View Post

Looks great. And Herman Munster is a relative:D

LMAO!!!!!! Herman Munster is my IDOL!!!! I just realized that I caught some of that painting in my pic!!!!

Thank you for the kind words buddy!


Carmine.
post #6708 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post

LMAO!!!!!! Herman Munster is my IDOL!!!!

I just loved him as Judge Haller in My Cousin Vinnie, one of my favorite films.
post #6709 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.T.Nest View Post

I just loved him as Judge Haller in My Cousin Vinnie, one of my favorite films.

Absolutely!!!! Not to forget Car 54, Where are You? LOLOL
post #6710 of 7193
I have an opportunity to buy an adult owned used 5.1 setup consisting of 4 Pro Cinema 800's, a Pro Cinema 1000 center, a Pro Sub 800, and a Denon AVR-1708 Receiver.

This would replace a JVC HTIB in my wife's craft room which among other issues has too few inputs . She'll do about 70% TV/Movie watching and 30% non-critical music listening. The room isn't large--about 10' x 12'

I'm comparing this to a new Yamaha YHT-497 bundled system, which at it's current price "on sale" at BB was about $30 less. I've actually purchased this already, but it's not even unloaded from the car, yet, and can easily be returned.

The bundled Yamaha system sounds much better than the ubiquitous Samsung/Panasonic/Sony/LG HTIB units, but I imagine the DefTech's would sound so much better. The biggest disadvantage of the used equipment is it's lack of watrranty / returnability.

Any thoughts? I haven't had the popportunity to demo the DefTechs, and I probably won't get the chance before deciding.

Thanks for your time.
post #6711 of 7193
Without a doubt I would go with the Def Tech!!!! I'm running 2 Pro Monitor 1000's & a Pro Center 2000. My surrounds & sub are from my 1st Def Tech Pro Cinema 60 system. I'll be swapping the 60 surrounds for 800's in the near future & as far as my sub, I'm thinking of going with either an SVS or an HSU. I can tell you hands down, & i'm sure everyone else in this forum will agree, Def Tech's sound like they should cost twice as much as they do!!!!!

You won't be sorry with the used Def Tech's you mentioned (as long as original owner treated them well)!!!!

Good Luck!
Carmine.
post #6712 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post

...You won't be sorry with the used Def Tech's you mentioned (as long as original owner treated them well)!!!!

Good Luck!
Carmine.

Thanks, Carmine,
I was able to get an appointment to see/buy the gear tomorrow after work.
post #6713 of 7193
Hey, thanks guys!!!! Appreciate your help!
post #6714 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.T.Nest View Post

Thanks, Carmine,
I was able to get an appointment to see/buy the gear tomorrow after work.

I did pick these up yesterday evening at what I believe to be an amazing price, even for used gear. I felt a little bad for the seller (but not bad enough to offer more than his asking price wink.gif). He had wanted a new large screen television, but his wife wouldn't approve the upgrade unless he downsized his audio system to a soundbar. He was clearly unhappy with the sound quality following the downgrade, but seemed resigned to living with it. Hopefully in time his wife will realize the evil thing she's done and repent, allowing him to upgrade to something even better than before.

I had thought to use the DefTechs and Denon AVR in the wife's craft room, but instead I think the AVR, two of the ProMonitor 800s, and the ProCenter 1000 will be replacing the the living room 3.1 system, where it will get much more use. I'll use the other two Monitor 800s in the craft room with the aging 12 year old Sony AVR from the living room. That way I can reclaim the pair of B&W DM602s from the living room and return them to their rightful place in the home theater 7.1 system. The HT had been downsized to 5.1 and relocated to the master bedroom while the HT space was used as a dormitory during the ten month "visit" of my daughter's family of six.

I'll probably use an extra JBL Control 1 speaker I have on hand as a center channel in the craft room until I can get my hands on another ProCenter 1000 or maybe a 2000.

Here's where I could use some advice: I need to decide which sub to use the living room and which in the craft room, the DefTech ProSub 800 or a Polk PSW10.

The ProSub 800 was part of that package deal, and the Polk was another Craigslist find. It supposedly was never used. It looks very clean, but I was unable to demo it. For $60 I had thought it would be a worthwhile replacement for the 20 year old Klipsch SW-8 in the living room. The Klipsch began to rattle at moderate a week or so ago, which is what prompted me to start looking at the audio ads on Craigslist in the first place That's where I found both the Denon/DefTech ad and the one for the Polk sub. So I'm actually thankful that the 20 year old Klipsch picked this week to fail in a way that even my wife would notice.

The craft room is about 10' x 12', while the living room is a larger space open to the dining room and kitchen, with a high ceiling. Neither sub is large enough to support anything close to reference levels in the space, but the wife generally disapproves of anything in the same zip code as reference level, so no worries there.

Any thoughts on which sub would be better in the larger room?

Hopefully I'll get a chance to get the equipment set up today. Although I am not confident that I'll get as full a sound from the Monitor 800's as we're used to from the 602s, with proper subwoofer placement the ProMonitor 800s should be fine. My wife is REALLY looking forward to the smaller footprint of the Monitor 800s compared to the B&Ws in "her" living room.

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

Kevin
post #6715 of 7193
How do the ProMonitor 800s compare to the satellites in the MartinLogan MLT-2 system? Can get the whole ML 5.1 system on Newegg right now for $170 and wondering if anyone has heard both satellites.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882981013&RandomID=2461166576521820131031135053
post #6716 of 7193
Hello Class, yes, RD's responses are consistently detailed and thorough. Congrats for commending him! ToddRiffic offers similarly well thought out responses. It's a pleasure reading posts from guys who know their stuff, but aren't grinding axes all day long :-)
Best, Joe
post #6717 of 7193
Newbie here--What receiver would a person need for procinema 1000s and a pro center 2000? I get confused with how the different company's rate watts per channel. Also, could people recommend some specific receivers?
post #6718 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwh27713 View Post

Newbie here--What receiver would a person need for procinema 1000s and a pro center 2000? I get confused with how the different company's rate watts per channel. Also, could people recommend some specific receivers?

Don’t pay too much attention to watts/channel. All will have enough power to run your speakers. You need to figure out what features you want your AVR to have and the budget, then narrow down from there. I have an entry level Denon 1613 and am very happy with it – fit my needs and budget when I got it. Check out the specific “receivers” sub-forum for more info.
post #6719 of 7193
11/17/2013: Please disregard. This was answered in another thread.


Hi,

I'm looking for speaker upgrade advice for a game room theater setup. It is a 110" front projector setup with 5.1 speakers. It is used mostly for movies, gaming, sports, and TV. It is also used for casual music listening about 10% of the time.

The system mostly meets my needs, but I suspect it could sound much better by replacing some of the older JBL's in the system. I like to buy one or two pieces at a time as I research and find deals. I really dont want to spend more than $400 a speaker, but I am flexible.

Current 5.1 setup:

Receiver: Onkyo SR-805

Center: 1 JBL S Series 150 Watt Center Speaker

Front: (2) JBL N38 175 Watt Main Speakers

Rear: (2) Definitive Technologies ProMonitor 1000

Subwoofer: (1) HSU VTF3-MK4




See above photo for room layout. The photo is shot from the adjoining kitchen area though an arched opening above a bar counter. The area to the right is all open. The subwoofer currently sits to the right of the photo at the right end of the sectional couch. The rear speakers are on the wall above each end of the couch.

Any thoughts? I was thinking about adding a DefTech ProCenter 2000 and maybe two more ProMonitor1000s up front. What about bipolar DefTechs? Move the ProMonitor1000s up front and put bipolar speakers in back? Other ideas?

Thanks in advance.
Edited by hamnjam - 11/17/13 at 4:49pm
post #6720 of 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwh27713 View Post

Newbie here--What receiver would a person need for procinema 1000s and a pro center 2000? I get confused with how the different company's rate watts per channel. Also, could people recommend some specific receivers?

I have the exact speaker configuration you mention & am running them with a Denon AVR-X1000. Sound is fantastic & includes a handsome set of features as well.

Good Luck
Carmine.
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