Is Plasma on its way out? - Page 2

But that is not the case. My comment is based on not just on white levels but on the purity of the whites. Sounds like I am hinting about gray scale again, doesn't it? LOL

This thread is about if plasma is on its way out. Nobody knows this. But from when I bought my first HDTV its been talked about alot here. And with these new LED LCD's with 50K to 100K contrast ratios (will produce deep Black levels) with great white levels the strength of LCD and a matte finish/no glare relections and no burn in, should be the end of plasma.

Am I up in the night with this assesment?

the reports of the death of plasma are greatly exaggerated: we have seen these reports for years

someday perhaps, measured in years, we may see the end of plasma

They have been talking about great improvements in LCD for years, and new types of displays that can make both CCFL backlt LCD's and plasmas obsolete...but where are they?

the first LCD with LED backlighting (Qualia 005) was a bust

Will just have to see if the Samsung 81 series is hype or reality. Your right the hype in all forums has been here since I joined..

Is plasma on its way out? I hope not. We've been hearing about these plasma- and CRT-killing LCDs for years now, but none of them have been delivered in such a form.

Plasma makers do need to deliver 1080p as a standard in a better price range. Resolution isn't the only thing, but it seems harder to sell a lower-rez panel even when the price is great for the size.

If sales data are any indication, then plasma is losing the war. Some have even suggested that plasma will become a nich market. I agree (again) with markrubin, it will take years.

According to Joe Taylor, with panasonic, The main display for most homes will be 50" and above. This seems logical to me so I would think that until top quality LCD's in the 50"-60" range becomes much more affordable then plasma will rule the big flat panel market.

Of course Panansonic would say that.

"The average screen size for a plasma panel grew from 43.2 inches in the first quarter of 2006 to 43.9 inches in the fourth quarter of 2006 to 44.3 inches in the seasonally weak first quarter of 2007." http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And...lasma/L6P4W4K2

"With the 40-inch-class market gradually taken over by LCD TVs, plasma models need to migrate to the market for 50-inch TVs and above, but demand is not as well developed there, analysts say."
http://news.soft32.com/shift-to-fine...asma_2904.html

"The 50-inch-and-up market is the only segment plasma has an advantage for now," Hyundai Securities analyst Jeff Kim said. "LCD has won the battle with better picture quality as consumers went for TVs better suited for digital broadcasting."

"The 50-inch-and-up segment will become a battlefield soon as early as the second half," said Park Hyun, an analyst at Prudential Securities. "A full-fledged showdown will come next year as LCD has further room for cost cuts."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...y/PersonalTech

It's hard to answer the OP's question about whether plasma is 'on the way out' of the display market, when as a product it never did have more than a tiny slice of that pie. The majority is transitioning from CRT to 32" LCD as of now.

See here for the most up-to-date news on the declining plasma market:

Plasma TVs: Market Decline Thread

This rule will be short one as affordable LCDs in this size range will appear within next year.

The first quality brand to offer a 60" for $3k will get my money. By quality I mean PQ at or above the current Sony's.

Its weird, I work at BB in HT and I nobody in my dept tells people that plasma is going any where. But I always here people say somebody told them that somewhere else. Its funny, cause I think that LCD must have come from such a poor level that we always talk about how they are "improving and have improved so much" that people just assume oh so their better. My best looking LCD (samsung clearview) looks like a plasma. I think to say plasma is going somewhere is to say everything is eventually going somewhere. Neither plasma nor LCD will be around for ever, but that has nothing to do with a purchase now. I personally think my 42" 1080 Penny on Blueray beats my 40"XBR2 on blueray. When I tell people that they're like whaa, what lanuage are you speaking? I think Marketing rules the world. On the price side too people keep talking about LCDs drving down prices, my comparable plasmas (Penny Pioneer and Samsung) seem to offer better prices consistantly by size and picture than their respective LCDs (Samsung, Sony). So I dunno. I think theres a major marketing flop on the plasma side. About as bad as HD DVD and Blueray marketing. IMHO of course.

Plasmas will surely die when the holographic TVs get all the bugs worked out of them...of course, LCD will die then too.

Both are here for many years to come...

VHS & Betamax. "Supposedly" betamax delivered the better picture but VHS delievered more of what the consumer wanted, more recording time, lower price, first with stereo capability. VHS survived and batamax entered the history books as an also ran. Sound familiar?

I can't distinguish which technology you're addressing. I assume you mean Plasma is the "supposed" better picture and is on the way out? See to me, a lot of people think the LCD gives off a better picture when its clearly not true. Case in point: Go watch the 5080 at your BB.

I consider myself and absolute expert in what makes Fujitsu plasma the superior flat display device. From the I'll fated "Grove Plasma" the world's first Fujitsu only boutique in 2001-2002, that fell victim to the longshoremens' strike of 2002. To a later record breaking extravaganza of about 5 Fujitsus sold a week during 9 months while working at a prestigious Audio Salon in Naples Florida.

I have seen some of my suggestions (pictures presets in 2001) later implemented in subsequent product. In my opinion the Fujitsu plasmaa was the only worthy display in 2001-2002 (flat, round or projection) worth considering videophile grade. In other words the moment the G-90 was retired (2001), not one single video projector in the market was worthy of being videophile grade. This changed in 2003 with the JVC QXILA ($450k) and in 2004 with the 2k DigitAL Projectors from TI (at $160,000).

Very little has changed since in the flat panel arena, we now have great videophile grade inexpensive projectors from JVC, and Marantz, we have some hot $80,000 projectors from Runco and others, we have the ultimatevideo device from Barco for Digital Cinema:

Fondly named the Tiger 2 tank of projectors by me for it's uncanny industrial design similarity.



I am not at the moment a Fujitsu dealer but rest assured that I will leave no stone unturned until I can offer my clients this King of Flatscreens again.

This is not an easy business and I have paid my dues defending what I consider the very best flat panel. There are no ways around it. LCD in my eyes is totally un acceptable, and it is impossible to me due to the sad proliferation of this inferior product to take each one of you on a on to one bassis and reason with you what makes agood picture. Forum ethiquette prohibits me to denonunce you for what I see you doing, a video genocide of sorts. LCD and VIDEOPHILE are two mutually excludable words they do not belong in the same sentence. Gentlemen come to your senses, if not fo yourselves then for future generations. GREY SCALE TRACKING means didly squat if the primaries are wrong and if other artefactae is being introduced.

Now you want to talk an Aviam0 65 versus a sony 70" with triluminuos LED and that is a worthy discusssion.

But the fact that the LCD manufacturers prefer to sell garbage because joe public can't tell the difference, or because it's on a childrens playground or kitchen has very little to do where these type of battles are fought and WON. At the very high end.

So as our astute moderator says before we start spelling doom for rightous technologies, LET"S TAKE THE HIGH ROAD. Take those Bullish LCD plant expansion projections with the highest degree of suspicion. It is your duty as a videophile.

"Joe Public" feeds the economy. He decides which products survive. He does not call himself an videophile but a television viewer. He may not meet your lofty standards for perfection but his opinion and his money is worth as much as yours. To quote YOU, Let's take the high road and not state that "LCD manufacturers prefer to sell garbage". Yes "Bullish LCD" plant expansions are happening at the same time some plasma plants are closing or some expansion plans are placed on hold. A normal reaction to increasing and decreasing sales.

Plasma yo outta da house!
Like da common kitchen louse!

Plasma's out without a doubt
the words spill out in racous shout
you may say i'm just a lout
but LCD will live to route
the beastly plasma without a doubt!

My lacrimary glands are bleeding like the guy in Casino Royale when I read your "Invetsment House" analysis of such a blatant display prostitutions.

When we look out our windows (preferably those that went to the Home Theater cruise) there is a plethora of color and dYnamism that is totally absent in LCD.

Doesn't Joe Public value this virtue of recreating reality? or will they settle for a video game like faccisimile two dimensional blurred visual aberration.

Are video gamers the culprits of the LCD black plague?

For 2 years here on the AVS I've read that LCD had more upside potenial than plasma. Those days maybe near. LCD with LED back light should let us know soon if we will start reading in threads with words like "remember when".

I respect your opinion but disagree with your assessment. It also appears that "Joe Public" does as well and his purchases continue to drive the market. "At the same time, Asahi Glass also decided to suspend production of PDP glass substrates at its Aichi plant, central Japan, from next month, and instead, it will place an emphasis on automobile glass production." http://www.displaybank.com/eng2004/news/ . . . from glass for PDPs to windshields - Oh my!!!!!

Another press release from LG in today's Wall Street Journal:

"LG said it is upgrading 2 of its 3 plasma display lines to increase each lines capacity. The company will use larger-size glass substrates at the two lines to produce eight 42" panels per glass up from six, increasing capacity by 22% to 440,000 units. LG also said it began mass-producing 50" plasma screens last week. The company used to make PDPs with 60" and above. LG is the world's 2nd largest PDP maker after Matsushita and said in mid-May that it is shutting down its oldest PDP line to cut costs and improve profitability. LG's PDP business has been struggling amid a sharp fall in panel prices and in the face of rival LCDs."

Doesn't sound like LG is leaving the plasma market.

I may have over looked it but I don't remember reading a post stating LG was leaving the pdp market. The last line in your quote says it all. "LG's PDP business has been struggling amid a sharp fall in panel prices and in the face of rival LCDs."

You may wish to read this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=832903

Why are people happy when things that suck take over the market?

They probably loved the Mustang II in 1974!

Why are people happy when a superior display technology doesn't make it to the market.

BTW,

Plasma is dying. I knew it all along. I told everyone but they mocked me. I told them that Plasma has reached its peak as a display technology. Plasma is a commodity now. No one is excited about plasma anymore, the thrill is gone.

That is why we need something new!!

In all due respect to LG and to anyone that owns a LG plasma, I don't think they make the best Plasmas anyway.

What are "The four most important aspects on PQ"

I believe, Contrast Ratio, Color accuracy, Resolution, and ... Um. The other one.

-Joel (having a senior moment)

I think the lightest in weight television wins out. That seems to be the buying criteria today. LCDs are supposedly coming out with even thinner models- game over.