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*Official* Denon 5308 Thread - Page 109

post #3241 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post

I don't use the included remotes, but I believe the small one can turn on an individual zone. You can also do it from the web interface. The display will say MAIN ZONE OFF.

Thanks Dem!

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post #3242 of 4955
I have just completed the firmware update on my 5308.....at last.

Now just to figure out how to get the iPOD dock working again......
post #3243 of 4955
Has anyone noticed that Denon's website lists the AVR-5308 as AVR-5308(A)?

I don't remember the "A" before.

Does anyone know what the difference is?
post #3244 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinkster10 View Post

I have just completed the firmware update on my 5308.....at last.

Now just to figure out how to get the iPOD dock working again......

Yes, the Denon Link 4th update was made available via firmware update yesterday, 6/22. Other than the new Denon Link, beats me what they updated. It sure would be nice if they indicated what changes/fixes were implemented which each update... one can wish...
post #3245 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadmanDigital4U View Post

Has anyone noticed that Denon's website lists the AVR-5308 as AVR-5308(A)?

I don't remember the "A" before.

Does anyone know what the difference is?

All the updates made available back in October, primarily giving Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Sirius Radio capability.

Looks like Denon did post some info on the update after all...

"This June 2009 update release includes Denon Link 4 for improved signal clocking, providing a more detailed sound. Other updates including the October 2008 release which added Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Sirius Radio Ready capabilities along with other improvements including updated iPod compatibility, 1080p/24f scaling and more is also included. *USE YOUR RECEIVER'S MENU TO UPDATE.*"
post #3246 of 4955
Is Denon releasing a BD player with link4 (besides the 4500.00 one)???????
post #3247 of 4955
When I go to Auto Setup|Parameter check|Spkr Config Check using the on screen display, it says my front, center, and surrounds=Large, even though I manually changed them to small in the Manual Setup|Speaker Set Setup|Speaker Config menu. Does anybody know why this happening?
post #3248 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinkster10 View Post

I have just completed the firmware update on my 5308.....at last.

Now just to figure out how to get the iPOD dock working again......

I just successfully updated mine also. Now I can go buy my DVD A1UDCI. Hooray!

Edit: Maybe I'm imagining things but, it almost seems like my system sounds better since performing the update this morning. I'm noticing better imaging and more headroom from my speakers. I haven't been smoking anything either. Gave all that up long ago.
post #3249 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Is Denon releasing a BD player with link4 (besides the 4500.00 one)???????

I thought there was one coming out, but can't seem to find it. Anyone recall it?
post #3250 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Is Denon releasing a BD player with link4 (besides the 4500.00 one)???????

Why is link4 important?

Mike
post #3251 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I thought there was one coming out, but can't seem to find it. Anyone recall it?

The only upcoming BD players Denon has announced are the DBP-2010CI and DBP-1610CI. Both are BD-Live 2.0 profile players, but have no mention of Denon-Link. Since they are not "universal" players capable of playing SACD or DVD-A, it's likely they feel Denon-Link is not required. I have not heard of any announced of other Denon-Link capable BD players, other than the $4,500 gorilla.
post #3252 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

The only upcoming BD players Denon has announced are the DBP-2010CI and DBP-1610CI. Both are BD-Live 2.0 profile players, but have no mention of Denon-Link. Since they are not "universal" players capable of playing SACD or DVD-A, it's likely they feel Denon-Link is not required. I have not heard of any announced of other Denon-Link capable BD players, other than the $4,500 gorilla.

Thought one was announced... I must of read it wrong. I was hoping link would improve BD audio, but guess not? Thanks!
post #3253 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Why is link4 important?

Mike

It separates the digital audio from the digital video by providing a dedicated connection for the digital audio (as opposed to both audio and video being carried on the HDMI output), while supporting all the HD audio formats. It also provides for audio jitter elimination by using certain proprietary timing procedures.

I've used Denon-Link 3 on one of their top-of-the-line DVD players and the audio does sound quite good. I've never heard SACDs and DVD-As sound any better. No way am I going to spend anywhere close to $4,500 to get this functionality in a combined "universal" BD-player. I'll keep my separate DVD player, BD player and HD-DVD players. Denon gave me enough HDMI inputs, thank you.
post #3254 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

It separates the digital audio from the digital video by providing a dedicated connection for the digital audio (as opposed to both audio and video being carried on the HDMI output), while supporting all the HD audio formats. It also provides for audio jitter elimination by using certain proprietary timing procedures.

I've used Denon-Link 3 on one of their top-of-the-line DVD players and the audio does sound quite good. I've never heard SACDs and DVD-As sound any better. No way am I going to spend anywhere close to $4,500 to get this functionality in a combined "universal" BD-player. I'll keep my separate DVD player, BD player and HD-DVD players. Denon gave me enough HDMI inputs, thank you.

DL3 did transport the audio over the DL3 cable, but DL4 does not it keeps the audio in the video frames on hdmi (for the new formats). What it does is add is a way to link the bluray player's clock to a DL4 receiver or seperates.

This PDF has a schema for it : http://usa.denon.com/High_End_Catalog_Lit0611.pdf

The next bluray that will also have DL4 will be the 4010CI that is expected in a few months and will be aimed at $2000.

Daniel.
post #3255 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

DL3 did transport the audio over the DL3 cable, but DL4 does not it keeps the audio in the video frames on hdmi (for the new formats). What it does is add is a way to link the bluray player's clock to a DL4 receiver or seperates.

This PDF has a schema for it : http://usa.denon.com/High_End_Catalog_Lit0611.pdf

The next bluray that will also have DL4 will be the 4010CI that is expected in a few months and will be aimed at $2000.

Daniel.

Thanks for the correction. Interesting literature. I didn't realize, from the documentation that I read, that they were using the HDMI connection for BD audio and only using the Denon-Link 4th for clock data. It looks like they are still using the Denon-Link connection for DVD-V, DVD-A and SACD audio transmission (as Denon-Link 3rd currently does). I guess the amount of data required for the uncompressed audio signal required for the BD HD audio formats is more than the dedicated Denon-Link connection can support. Also nice to see that they're working on a more moderately priced BD player with this technology.

I just found a reference to this player (DBP-4010CI) that indicates it as being a "Universal" BD player that supports SACD playback (and I'm assuming DVD-A playback). Perhaps it's designed to replaced the DVD-2500BTCI transport. This might be a nicely balanced player for owners of the AVR-5308 and AVP-A1HDCI, which don't need all of the redundant processing that is in the A1UDCI. I'm interested...
post #3256 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Thanks for the correction. Interesting literature. I didn't realize, from the documentation that I read, that they were using the HDMI connection for BD audio and only using the Denon-Link 4th for clock data. It looks like they are still using the Denon-Link connection for DVD-V, DVD-A and SACD audio transmission (as Denon-Link 3rd currently does). I guess the amount of data required for the uncompressed audio signal required for the BD HD audio formats is more than the dedicated Denon-Link connection can support. Also nice to see that they're working on a more moderately priced BD player with this technology.

I just found a reference to this player (DBP-4010CI) that indicates it as being a "Universal" BD player that supports SACD playback (and I'm assuming DVD-A playback). Perhaps it's designed to replaced the DVD-2500BTCI transport. This might be a nicely balanced player for owners of the AVR-5308 and AVP-A1HDCI, which don't need all of the redundant processing that is in the A1UDCI. I'm interested...

Is the DL4 better than a high quality DAC?

I was recently reading a Stereophile issue talking about jitter levels, so I have only recently gotten this up on my A/V radar.

Mike
post #3257 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


The next bluray that will also have DL4 will be the 4010CI that is expected in a few months and will be aimed at $2000.

Daniel.

Thats the one I was thinking about.... thanks!
post #3258 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post


I just found a reference to this player (DBP-4010CI) that indicates it as being a "Universal" BD player that supports SACD playback (and I'm assuming DVD-A playback). Perhaps it's designed to replaced the DVD-2500BTCI transport. This might be a nicely balanced player for owners of the AVR-5308 and AVP-A1HDCI, which don't need all of the redundant processing that is in the A1UDCI. I'm interested...

I dont want a universal player. I guess link4 has no use for BD audio afterall.
post #3259 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Is the DL4 better than a high quality DAC?

I was recently reading a Stereophile issue talking about jitter levels, so I have only recently gotten this up on my A/V radar.

Mike

Well using DL4, in conjunction with HDMI, keeps the audio in the digital domain from the source device (the BD-player) to your amp (receiver). This way you use your high-end DAC in the your AVR-5308 to covert the digital audio to analog for driving your speakers. This is one reason why the DACs and signal processing of the DVD-A1UDCI is somewhat redundant if your going to be using HDMI and DL4 to connect to a 5308. You can only use one DAC or the other, but not both.
post #3260 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I dont want a universal player. I guess link4 has no use for BD audio afterall.

Actually, according to Denon's literature it does. Though they're using HDMI for carrying the audio, they're using the DL4 connection for the timing routines to eliminate the audio jitter. So they claim BD audio will sound better using DL4. In fact that's the big claim to fame of DL4 over DL3 (which doesn't work with BD audio).
post #3261 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Actually, according to Denon's literature it does. Though they're using HDMI for carrying the audio, they're using the DL4 connection for the timing routines to eliminate the audio jitter. So they claim BD audio will sound better using DL4. In fact that's the big claim to fame of DL4 over DL3 (which doesn't work with BD audio).

I wonder if its only PCM tracks (or anything decoded in the player) or bitstreamed stuff?
post #3262 of 4955
i currently have apple tv connected to the 5308 but it is not very user friendly; nor, it does not play many formats (hd quality) only mp4. I am looking for another method to play, avi format, HD quality movies, 1080p etc..from another source other than apple tv or DVD. what do you guys recommended? I do want to stay away from having the computer, as a source....? will it be best to go with something like HDX1000, USB hard drive, etc.. thanks
post #3263 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I wonder if its only PCM tracks (or anything decoded in the player) or bitstreamed stuff?

The claim to fame about Denon-Link is that it bitstreams the source disk's original encoded audio (whether is DSD, AC3, DTS, DTS HD Master, Dolby HD, etc.) to the receiver for it to decode and convert to analog for output to your speakers. Basically, it makes the player act as a transport, simply reading the disk and sending the untouched digital signal to your receiver (amp) for D-A conversion. That's why owners of the 5308 really don't need all the great audio and video processing that's in the DVD-A1UDCI. It's the reason why Denon made the DVD-2500BTCI for owners of the 5308, except that they didn't put in Denon-Link or a universal disk reader drive. What we would all want is the DVD-2500BTCI upgraded with these two missing functions (and of course an Ethernet connection for BD-live - profile 2.0).
post #3264 of 4955
Denon better do a little better than $2,000 for their "low-cost" universal player offering. They also better add some net based streaming capabilities. According to a ZD Net article, BD days are numbered. Hey, I have over 200 BD and HD-DVDs in my collection, along with three high-def players, but honestly my interest of late has been more turning to HD streaming and DLs. If Denon doesn't add some kind of Netflix or Blockbuster streaming capabilities to their players, they could be helping to put the nail in the BD coffin.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=509
post #3265 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Denon better do a little better than $2,000 for their "low-cost" universal player offering. They also better add some net based streaming capabilities. According to a ZD Net article, BD days are numbered. Hey, I have over 200 BD and HD-DVDs in my collection, along with three high-def players, but honestly my interest of late has been more turning to HD streaming and DLs. If Denon doesn't add some kind of Netflix or Blockbuster streaming capabilities to their players, they could be helping to put the nail in the BD coffin.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=509

I agree with this in a way, bluray will never be as big as DVD but there is and will be a place for a while (say 5 years) before online options are strong enough.

A few remarks on the issues since my last post :

The 4010CI is aimed to replace the 3800 not the 2500, denon won't make a second transport again atleast thats what they claim personally i would also love one.

4010CI is basicly A1UD without the highend balanced design, overkill analog parts, probably not AL32 and 32 bit dacs but same dacs as in the a5308.

A1UD indeed is a weird sell to AVP and maybe also 5308 owners since well you have most of it already thats why the upped it it to AL32 and new dacs i guess if you want to stay analog BUT why the hell not use DL4 then right . So well i guess their logic is/was lets just make the BEST bluray player and see who buys it and why. seems to me you will always leave a part on the floor .

The reason why they added the clock to DL4 and NOT the data seems simple to me. Owners of DL1,2,3 might remember that it took denon 2+ years to convince them (sony mostly) to 'allow' denon to transport sacd over DL3 it was a mess. So by leaving all the bits on hdmi with its protection and encryption BS and adding extra info (the clock) over a second line (the DL4 utp cable) they sidestep the whole discussion there is no way that the bluray people can say they broke anything... denon being smart here .

Daniel.
post #3266 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


The reason why they added the clock to DL4 and NOT the data seems simple to me. Owners of DL1,2,3 might remember that it took denon 2+ years to convince them (sony mostly) to 'allow' denon to transport sacd over DL3 it was a mess. So by leaving all the bits on hdmi with its protection and encryption BS and adding extra info (the clock) over a second line (the DL4 utp cable) they sidestep the whole discussion there is no way that the bluray people can say they broke anything... denon being smart here .

Daniel.

Makes sense to me.

You seem to have a great deal of insight as to what Denon has up their sleeve. Have you heard any word of them working on or offering as a paid "New Feature" the new Dolby PLIIz decoder and/or the Audyssey Dynamic Surround Expansion for the 5308? I think a lot of us 5308 owners are feeling a little orphaned now that the 4310, at $3,500 less than we paid, has functionality that we don't. Suddenly we don't feel so "Reference" any more!
post #3267 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Denon better do a little better than $2,000 for their "low-cost" universal player offering. They also better add some net based streaming capabilities. According to a ZD Net article, BD days are numbered. Hey, I have over 200 BD and HD-DVDs in my collection, along with three high-def players, but honestly my interest of late has been more turning to HD streaming and DLs. If Denon doesn't add some kind of Netflix or Blockbuster streaming capabilities to their players, they could be helping to put the nail in the BD coffin.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=509

Sure, most people are underwhelmed by Blu-ray. If you're one of us enthusiasts with huge screen and high-end receiver/speakers then you can see the difference. But most people just connect it to their crappy TV and see no appreciable difference at all from a regular DVD.

Plus it was played the wrong way from the start. Blu-ray was an excuse for the studios (and Sony is one of them) to raise the average price for a movie to the $20-35 range (and also re-sell you all the movies you own over again). Regular DVD prices have gotten so low that I generally wouldn't pay more than $10-15 per movie. Even new releases priced high, you just need to wait 6-12 months and get it cheap. As much as I like the blu-ray quality, I will NOT pay extra $10 just to have the movie on blu-ray. Regular DVD is just fine for 90% of what I'm buying. Certain action and special effects movies I have to have on Blu-ray, but most others not (if there's significant extra cost). And finally, until the blu-ray disks get to the $5-10 range where old DVDs are now I will not replace my existing collection of several hundred DVDs. Just not worth the money. So guess what - it's all matter of $$. You want to keep the format alive - bring the cost to DVD levels
post #3268 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post

Sure, most people are underwhelmed by Blu-ray. If you're one of us enthusiasts with huge screen and high-end receiver/speakers then you can see the difference. But most people just connect it to their crappy TV and see no appreciable difference at all from a regular DVD.

Plus it was played the wrong way from the start. Blu-ray was an excuse for the studios (and Sony is one of them) to raise the average price for a movie to the $20-35 range (and also re-sell you all the movies you own over again). Regular DVD prices have gotten so low that I generally wouldn't pay more than $10-15 per movie. Even new releases priced high, you just need to wait 6-12 months and get it cheap. As much as I like the blu-ray quality, I will NOT pay extra $10 just to have the movie on blu-ray. Regular DVD is just fine for 90% of what I'm buying. Certain action and special effects movies I have to have on Blu-ray, but most others not (if there's significant extra cost). And finally, until the blu-ray disks get to the $5-10 range where old DVDs are now I will not replace my existing collection of several hundred DVDs. Just not worth the money. So guess what - it's all matter of $$. You want to keep the format alive - bring the cost to DVD levels

As more people adopt Blu Ray, the cost of discs will, and have come down. Blu Ray is infinitely better than DVD ( Dolby True HD DTS HD Master Audio).

Until I can stream the High Def audio codecs I am not very enthusiastic about streaming movies. Ofcourse broadband providers are salivating at the prospect of charging more money for users that download hi def movies. I worry more about the telecoms than I do the studios. At least with Blu Ray you own a disc. You never get anything appreciable from the Telecoms.
post #3269 of 4955
Its weird to predict when a new tech. will take over but we have to keep in mind that there are no atoms involved anymore meaning a sale of the bits only is much more flexible. With the passing of MJ yesterday sony Netherlands told a newspaper they only had access to 10.000 albums on cd and all the shops are now out of cd's it will take them several days to rush to get more pressed. Meanwhile only one (itunes will probably not release numbers) online retaler sold 9 copies the day before his death. Today they are selling a MJ related cd every 7seconds.

Daniel.
post #3270 of 4955
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Makes sense to me.

You seem to have a great deal of insight as to what Denon has up their sleeve. Have you heard any word of them working on or offering as a paid "New Feature" the new Dolby PLIIz decoder and/or the Audyssey Dynamic Surround Expansion for the 5308? I think a lot of us 5308 owners are feeling a little orphaned now that the 4310, at $3,500 less than we paid, has functionality that we don't. Suddenly we don't feel so "Reference" any more!

I don't think they're going to give it to us. Take a look at the owners manual of 4310, it looks like it'd require Denon to do an entire software overhaul
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