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*Official* Denon 5308 Thread - Page 145

post #4321 of 4900
7/17/11 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Jeff Talmadge (Denon Dir Prod Dev) indicated that the new production 5308 units will not have the upgrade installed, rather if the owner wants the upgrade after purchase, they would need to send the unit in to Denon and pay for the upgrade.

Wow... It surprises me that Denon would sell new 5308's without the upgrade which would complicate getting new buyers to buy the 5308. Yeah, buy the 5308 and then promptly mail it back to Denon for upgrades that will cost more money; that sounds very appealing [sarcasm].

None the less, thanks for the information. It does inform my next step. I do want a 5308 so I may be buying very soon versus waiting for the upgrade information to be released.

GGT
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post #4322 of 4900
7/17/11 at 9:27am
^^
Which is why I asked him the question for you ...
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post #4323 of 4900
7/17/11 at 2:31pm
^^^

I am in your debt.

GGT
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post #4324 of 4900
7/22/11 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGT View Post

My basement home theater room was ruined in 2007 by a flood. I stored all of my stuff including a brand new unopened 60" Sony SXRD. My plan: When the basement is done, I'll install a Denon 5308 to power my system. I'm a long time Denon fan, love their stuff, but have long heard unkind rumors about their customer support. I built a small home theater in the upstairs to hold me over while I slowly slaved away on the basement (I'm not that skilled, it takes me forever to get stuff done). For the upstairs, I bought a Denon AVR-789 thru Dakmart. I figured it would be a trail run for getting a B-stock 5308 later. It went great. The 789 is running strong. Yeah, it's B-stock, but I couldn't be happier. Fast forward to tonight. The 5308 I ordered from Dakmart arrives. I can tell from the finish and the dust that it's had a previous owner, but that's ok, what I need is for it to work. While I was taking the last plastic off, the damage becomes apparent. The volume knob and the 3 quick select buttons are all pushed inside the unit. Way in. It was not damaged in shipping, the boxes and packing are all good. It was sent to me this way. Those controls just flop around inside the unit. It's like they've been kicked in.

What kind of hell am I in for now? I know that I was taking some sort of a chance buying a B-stock item, but it is covered by a Denon warranty and I didn't think that the "B" meant "Busted". Cosmedic issues sure, flat out broke. No, not so much.

I am disappointed beyond words.

Anybody have any experience with Denon service. Any thoughts on what I can expect?

Thanks,

GGT

I am very surprised that you would have received a unit as described in your post. If Denon actually serviced the item they would have provided a box to ship the item in. It would be cosmetically in good to excellent condition. When they recondition an item or refer to an item as being B grade it could have come off the assembly line and failed at some point. It is then repaired and cannot be sold as new. It would seem that Damark sent you a used item in questionable condition. I would be very suspect. I purchased years ago a Denon 5803 unit that was a B unit. It appeared brand new with out any cosmetic flaw. I used it for about 2 years sent it in for an upgrade and then sold it when the 5308CI became available. I do not believe Denon would have released a unit and called it refurbished if it looked like what you describe. If it was packaged properly it should have survived the shipment.

Manny
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post #4325 of 4900
7/23/11 at 5:39am
If interested in this discussion, see here.
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post #4326 of 4900
7/23/11 at 6:40am
So, can anyone explain what the latest firmware update is for?
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post #4327 of 4900
7/23/11 at 6:55am
So it sounds like the upgrade is a Dealer Installed mod (like in the auto industry) I can recall often where the manufacturer for some reason did not install the modification (like airconditioning in the first 240z) Perhaps Denon feels that they want to see how many people really go for the upgrade versus offering it to everyone for an increased price. They may feel at this point that raising the price might not be what the market will accept across the board. However, individually we can decide to upgrade our units. I am still out to lunch about 3D. And I am not sure that I would add any speakers to my current system. So perhaps they want to test the market and see how many folks really pony up the 1 large for the upgrade. What I do like is the audessey improvement. I may do the upgrade just for that.
Manny
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post #4328 of 4900
7/23/11 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by john barlow View Post

So, can anyone explain what the latest firmware update is for?

All networking models from XX08 (w/Rhapsody upgrade) and newer received an update to connect to the newly updated Rhapsody servers.
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post #4329 of 4900
7/23/11 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

All networking models from XX08 (w/Rhapsody upgrade) and newer received an update to connect to the newly updated Rhapsody servers.

Actually, the 8-minute firmware update back around 7/13 did not address the Rhapsody server change. Being a subscriber, Rhapsody is still "temporarily unavailable". As of yesterday, 7/22, both Denon and Rhapsody tech support have no date on when the update to correct this issue will be released.
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post #4330 of 4900
7/23/11 at 2:16pm
I thought that John Barlow was referring to the update that was made available today which in fact does resolve the Rhapsody issue .. at least it went out to the XX12 models.
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post #4331 of 4900
7/23/11 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I thought that John Barlow was referring to the update that was made available today which in fact does resolve the Rhapsody issue .. at least it went out to the XX12 models.

Unfortunately, that didn't hit our 5308s yet. Still no Rhapsody here. Maybe soon...
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post #4332 of 4900
7/24/11 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmanny3 View Post

... What I do like is the audessey improvement. I may do the upgrade just for that. Manny

If I had your unit, I would indeed do it just for that. I just upgraded from 4310 to A!00 and XT32 is a significant improvement, especially with an Audyssey Pro calibration.
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post #4333 of 4900
7/24/11 at 6:06am
I would love to hear from those who have done the A/B test of DL4 ON vs OFF for BR.

Same for those who have done the A/B test of DL3 vs HDMI and SPDIF for SACD, DVDA and RBCD.

Has anyone here done an A/B comparison? Please answer in this thread.
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post #4334 of 4900
7/24/11 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Actually, the 8-minute firmware update back around 7/13 did not address the Rhapsody server change. Being a subscriber, Rhapsody is still "temporarily unavailable". As of yesterday, 7/22, both Denon and Rhapsody tech support have no date on when the update to correct this issue will be released.

How much you wanna bet it'll get corrected with the impending upgrade this fall.

So then... what did the 8min firmware actually do (anyone know)??
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post #4335 of 4900
7/24/11 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

How much you wanna bet it'll get corrected with the impending upgrade this fall. \\

That would totally suck. I don't subscribe to Rhapsody to use with my computer. I sure don't want to have my computer connected to the 5308 to use the service. I was told by Rhapsody that they would give me a credit for the down time until Denon pushes out the update. Obviously, it's not only the cost... Denon should really get their act together on this.
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post #4336 of 4900
7/25/11 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

That would totally suck. I don't subscribe to Rhapsody to use with my computer. I sure don't want to have my computer connected to the 5308 to use the service. I was told by Rhapsody that they would give me a credit for the down time until Denon pushes out the update. Obviously, it's not only the cost... Denon should really get their act together on this.

Hi AdamWL,

This firmware update simply disables Rhapsody until Denon reworks the firmware due to Rhapsody server changes.

Denon Changelog for this update for USA units only:

1- The problem not to play occurs until firmware is improved because the Rhapsody side changed a server.

What is your firmware Main Ver after this update? If you post your firmware Main Ver # for this update I will update the firmware tracking wiki for the 5308. I have already updated the wiki for the 3808/4308.

captavs
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post #4337 of 4900
8/4/11 at 8:17pm
I have registered for upgrade info for my 5308 on Denon's site a while ago and have not seen anything from them. Is this upgrade I have heard of still available? Is anyone having this done now?
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post #4338 of 4900
8/5/11 at 4:52am
^^
AFAIK, the upgrade process doesn't begin until October 2011.
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post #4339 of 4900
8/20/11 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

How much you wanna bet it'll get corrected with the impending upgrade this fall.

So then... what did the 8min firmware actually do (anyone know)??

Denon just posted the update. 18-min and Rhapsody is back. Don't know if anything else was changed. They also fixed the default to randomized playback and constant disconnections between songs. Everything working the way it's supposed to. Maybe now we can finally get our money's worth out of the Rhapsody subscription!!
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post #4340 of 4900
8/21/11 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Denon just posted the update. 18-min and Rhapsody is back. Don't know if anything else was changed. They also fixed the default to randomized playback and constant disconnections between songs. Everything working the way it's supposed to. Maybe now we can finally get our money's worth out of the Rhapsody subscription!!

Nice! A little birdy told me they didn't think they had time to update the Rhapsody changes before the big upgrade this fall but obviously they did!
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post #4341 of 4900
8/29/11 at 12:04pm
I've had my new Denon 5308 now for about three weeks. I'm still learning and working items on setting up this monster and having a lot of fun with it. Right now, I plan on going for the planned October upgrade based on what little we know of it. My setup had envisioned height speakers, but getting the wide speakers for DSX in place has been a very interesting puzzle to solve. I haven't got it licked yet, but I'm on it.

My question here is, how are all these extra speakers going to be powered? I know that the 5308 can share 2 amps for 4 speakers. A configuration I'm not currently using. Adding another set of speakers means the that those 2 amps would have to cover 6 speakers. I know external amps can be used with the 5308, but I know next to nothing about them and I'm not interested in up-amping the whole thing. I'm more than happy with the 5308 on its own and I don't have much room for amps. However, isn't there a limit/downside to sharing amps across so many speakers?

I'm hoping Denon is going to recommend some external amp configuration or other setup to power a full up DSX setup.

The other possibility that occurs to me is that could Denon will force us to choose between heights/wides and rears and sides when running DSX. That doesn't seem like a good idea at all, but I have to wonder if that might happen.

I've seen some limited conversation on this topic previously, but the answer always is: Buy some external amps and you're done. For me, that's not so clear. What amps would be a best match for a 5308? I don't want to re-amp all the channels (space and money constraints). Which will best match the 5308's internal amps and not be overkill? I have no idea.

Am I over thinking this?

GGT
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post #4342 of 4900
8/31/11 at 11:56pm
I am trying to finish configuring a two-room setup and am having difficulty getting the second room (with its own AVR and TV) to work the way I am hoping.

The second room has an AVR with multi-channel inputs along with the standard HDMI and digital audio (optical/coax) inputs. At first I thought I'd simply connect the HDMI monitor 2 to the second TV and the pre-outs to the multi-channel input on the second AVR. But I quickly learned that the pre-outs on the 5308 appear to be tied to the master volume. This doesn't make any sense. I would have thought that the pre-outs would be line level and have no bearing on the master volume. I can't find any parameter to change this. The problem this is creating is, of course, that the speakers in the other room are being driven when I turn up the volume for the pre-outs. This won't do.

My second attempt was to bring the HDMI monitor 2 from the 5308 to the one of the second room AVRs HDMI inputs. I wasn't sure if this was going to work (HDCP issues) since the HDMI from the 5308 wasn't going to a monitor device, but another AVR. To my surprise it worked, but of course there was no audio being carried over the HDMI connection. I then switched the HDMI audio (on the 5308) from AMP to TV and it worked for this second room, but it also switched the audio in my main room to output the audio to the projector and disabled the 5308's speakers. Unbelievable. My other AVR (in room 2) also has 2 HDMI outputs and each has the individual option of being set for AMP or TV audio. Can't believe the 5308 has a global for this setting. So this option didn't work.

I then tried leaving the HDMI output to the second AVR for video and then hooking up a digital audio cable from the Zone 2 or Zone 4 optical outs. I quickly learned that it won't take any audio from an HDMI source. So I'd have to connect digital audio cables from each of my sources that I'm looking to switch over to the second room. I haven't tried this yet. I'm not even sure if it will allow me to switch digital audio sources without using 2-channel analog connections. I'm working on trying this option next.

Based upon the above, my question is what would be the best recommendation for getting all my sources that are connected to the 5308 sent over in 5.1 to my second room's AVR/TV setup? (Independent sources being played in each room would be a plus, but if it needed to be a common source, it wouldn't be a showstopper.) Any suggestions/help on this would be greatly appreciated. I really thought this was going to be easy with all the output connections on the 5308, but it's just not happening the way I was expecting. I can't be the only one who's needed to do this. I'd love to hear from anyone who's done something similar.

Thanks!!
Adam
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post #4343 of 4900
9/1/11 at 12:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

My second attempt was to bring the HDMI monitor 2 from the 5308 to the one of the second room AVRs HDMI inputs. I wasn't sure if this was going to work (HDCP issues) since the HDMI from the 5308 wasn't going to a monitor device, but another AVR. To my surprise it worked, but of course there was no audio being carried over the HDMI connection. I then switched the HDMI audio (on the 5308) from AMP to TV and it worked for this second room, but it also switched the audio in my main room to output the audio to the projector and disabled the 5308's speakers. Unbelievable. My other AVR (in room 2) also has 2 HDMI outputs and each has the individual option of being set for AMP or TV audio. Can't believe the 5308 has a global for this setting. So this option didn't work.

I then tried leaving the HDMI output to the second AVR for video and then hooking up a digital audio cable from the Zone 2 or Zone 4 optical outs. I quickly learned that it won't take any audio from an HDMI source. So I'd have to connect digital audio cables from each of my sources that I'm looking to switch over to the second room. I haven't tried this yet. I'm not even sure if it will allow me to switch digital audio sources without using 2-channel analog connections. I'm working on trying this option next.

Based upon the above, my question is what would be the best recommendation for getting all my sources that are connected to the 5308 sent over in 5.1 to my second room's AVR/TV setup? (Independent sources being played in each room would be a plus, but if it needed to be a common source, it wouldn't be a showstopper.) Any suggestions/help on this would be greatly appreciated. I really thought this was going to be easy with all the output connections on the 5308, but it's just not happening the way I was expecting. I can't be the only one who's needed to do this. I'd love to hear from anyone who's done something similar.

I have euro version of 5308, the AVC-A1HD, and I've stumbled to very same issues that you have. Unfortunately there is not much advice one can give you; the 5308 just does not have capability to make practically any format conversions for multizone output. It's all documented, but somewhat disappointing nonetheless. So you will have to double (HDMI+digital audio) or triple wire (HDMI+digital audio + analog 2ch audio) all the sources you want want to use for output and hope your source devices support simultaneous audio output for example HDMI and optical audio at the same time. I've done this and the end result works, but the amount of cable spaghetti I have behind my AV rack basically doubles due to this. In this sense the audio "processing" side of 5308 /AVC-A1HD is IMO quite unimpressive. Lack of pure HDMI passthough when using speakers connected to Denon is the biggest disappointment, this is available in some low end AVRs.

I recently managed to make things a little better using a video processor. My Lumagen Radiance XS can add/extract audio like no other so I'm currently cabling 2 ch analog and 5.1 digital to it and use it to embed the the audio to HDMI output for multiroom distribution. It can also extract audio from HDMI input to my 5.1 surround headphone processor with optical in. Saves quite a hazzle in cabling, especially for longer runs where one has to use HDMI over cat6. VP beats 3x more expensive AVR 6-0 when it comes to audio conversion/extraction.
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post #4344 of 4900
9/1/11 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post

I have euro version of 5308, the AVC-A1HD, and I've stumbled to very same issues that you have. Unfortunately there is not much advice one can give you; the 5308 just does not have capability to make practically any format conversions for multizone output. It's all documented, but somewhat disappointing nonetheless. So you will have to double (HDMI+digital audio) or triple wire (HDMI+digital audio + analog 2ch audio) all the sources you want want to use for output and hope your source devices support simultaneous audio output for example HDMI and optical audio at the same time. I've done this and the end result works, but the amount of cable spaghetti I have behind my AV rack basically doubles due to this. In this sense the audio "processing" side of 5308 /AVC-A1HD is IMO quite unimpressive. Lack of pure HDMI passthough when using speakers connected to Denon is the biggest disappointment, this is available in some low end AVRs.

Thanks for the insight. I had a feeling I'd wind up having to double up on all the audio connections AND now the video as well. Of course, HDMI spec doesn't allow you to "down-convert" to component video, allowing the "Zone 2" component video output to display. So, if I want separate sources for my Main Zone and Zone 2, I need to run component video cables from each source. So much for a single neat cable for each source carrying both audio and video! 5 devices, 25 cables (3x5 component video, 5 HDMI, 5 TOS-link audio)!! Isn't that a pretty sight. Add to that bi-wiring the fronts in a 9.2 main room. Talk about a spaghetti nightmare! And to add insult to injury, Denon doesn't allow the 5308 to display the Zone 2 OSD on the component video output! Just can't win.
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post #4345 of 4900
9/1/11 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

Of course, HDMI spec doesn't allow you to "down-convert" to component video, allowing the "Zone 2" component video output to display. So, if I want separate sources for my Main Zone and Zone 2, I need to run component video cables from each source. So much for a single neat cable for each source carrying both audio and video! 5 devices, 25 cables (3x5 component video, 5 HDMI, 5 TOS-link audio)!!

Came across a glitch. After running component video cables from each source device to the 5308, bringing video out of the Zone 2 component video out, I'm not getting video from "Net/USB" going to the Zone 2 component video out. I get audio from the Zone 2 optical out, but no video from this source. Anyone have an idea why this internal source doesn't display out of the Zone 2 component video out?
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post #4346 of 4900
9/1/11 at 2:52am
^^
The OSD won't display to Zone 2 over the component video out (p. 9). You may want to try using a 4x2 HDMI switch like this one from Monoprice.
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post #4347 of 4900
9/1/11 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

I am trying to finish configuring a two-room setup and am having difficulty getting the second room (with its own AVR and TV) to work the way I am hoping.

The second room has an AVR with multi-channel inputs along with the standard HDMI and digital audio (optical/coax) inputs. At first I thought I'd simply connect the HDMI monitor 2 to the second TV and the pre-outs to the multi-channel input on the second AVR. But I quickly learned that the pre-outs on the 5308 appear to be tied to the master volume. This doesn't make any sense. I would have thought that the pre-outs would be line level and have no bearing on the master volume. I can't find any parameter to change this. The problem this is creating is, of course, that the speakers in the other room are being driven when I turn up the volume for the pre-outs. This won't do.

My second attempt was to bring the HDMI monitor 2 from the 5308 to the one of the second room AVRs HDMI inputs. I wasn't sure if this was going to work (HDCP issues) since the HDMI from the 5308 wasn't going to a monitor device, but another AVR. To my surprise it worked, but of course there was no audio being carried over the HDMI connection. I then switched the HDMI audio (on the 5308) from AMP to TV and it worked for this second room, but it also switched the audio in my main room to output the audio to the projector and disabled the 5308's speakers. Unbelievable. My other AVR (in room 2) also has 2 HDMI outputs and each has the individual option of being set for AMP or TV audio. Can't believe the 5308 has a global for this setting. So this option didn't work.

I then tried leaving the HDMI output to the second AVR for video and then hooking up a digital audio cable from the Zone 2 or Zone 4 optical outs. I quickly learned that it won't take any audio from an HDMI source. So I'd have to connect digital audio cables from each of my sources that I'm looking to switch over to the second room. I haven't tried this yet. I'm not even sure if it will allow me to switch digital audio sources without using 2-channel analog connections. I'm working on trying this option next.

Based upon the above, my question is what would be the best recommendation for getting all my sources that are connected to the 5308 sent over in 5.1 to my second room's AVR/TV setup? (Independent sources being played in each room would be a plus, but if it needed to be a common source, it wouldn't be a showstopper.) Any suggestions/help on this would be greatly appreciated. I really thought this was going to be easy with all the output connections on the 5308, but it's just not happening the way I was expecting. I can't be the only one who's needed to do this. I'd love to hear from anyone who's done something similar.

Thanks!!
Adam

well you are trying to setup another zone and that is now what the second HDMI is for, it is more to be used for an additional monitor, most likely a projector. You should use ZONE2 Video and Audio out.
Read pages 85 to 90 of the manual.
One thing I do not understand is if you have an AVR in the second-room, why go through all this trouble? Is it the cable/sat signal you want to share in the main and 2nd room?
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post #4348 of 4900
9/1/11 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamWL View Post

But I quickly learned that the pre-outs on the 5308 appear to be tied to the master volume. This doesn't make any sense. I would have thought that the pre-outs would be line level and have no bearing on the master volume.

No, it makes perfect sense. They are not line level outputs, and are not intended to be used that way. The pre-outs are for connecting a external power amplifier, and external amplifiers usually also totally lack having any form of their own volume controls, which is why the pre-out output is controlled by the 5308's master volume control. It is that way so there is a way to control the volume levels of the external amplifier. The pre-outs are not intended to feed a line level signal to another AVR, and thus there is not any way you can take/defeat the volume control function out of the circuit.
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post #4349 of 4900
9/1/11 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The OSD won't display to Zone 2 over the component video out (p. 9). You may want to try using a 4x2 HDMI switch like this one from Monoprice.

Yes. That explains it. I didn't realize the character generation from Net/USB was the same as that of the OSD. But that makes sense. I'll look into the monoprice device. I could also try using an S-video or composite video connection for just the Net/USB and simply switch the input on the second room AVR for this source. Who cares about the video resolution here, as long as you can see what's going on, 480 is fine.
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post #4350 of 4900
9/1/11 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

No, it makes perfect sense. They are not line level outputs, and are not intended to be used that way. The pre-outs are for connecting a external power amplifier, and external amplifiers usually also totally lack having any form of their own volume controls, which is why the pre-out output is controlled by the 5308's master volume control. It is that way so there is a way to control the volume levels of the external amplifier. The pre-outs are not intended to feed a line level signal to another AVR, and thus there is not any way you can take/defeat the volume control function out of the circuit.

That makes sense. It would have been nice to have the option to output through the pre-outs at a line-level without having the master volume turned up on the 5308. I thought I remember some older two-channel receivers having a switch on the back for line-level pre-outs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiohm View Post

well you are trying to setup another zone and that is now what the second HDMI is for, it is more to be used for an additional monitor, most likely a projector. You should use ZONE2 Video and Audio out.
Read pages 85 to 90 of the manual.
One thing I do not understand is if you have an AVR in the second-room, why go through all this trouble? Is it the cable/sat signal you want to share in the main and 2nd room?

Yes, I have gone with Zone 2 for the additional room. It's more than just a cable/SAT signal I'm bringing to the second room. I also have a CD media server, an HD-DVD, an SACD/DVD-A CD player and an HD DVR. (My BD-player has two HDMI outputs - that was nice). It would have been great if the 5308's second HDMI output could have be configured to Zone 2. If I'm watching/listening to the same sources in each room, I'll go with the second HDMI output. Again, too bad you can't independently set the HDMI audio being AMP or TV for each HDMI output. On the 5308 it is tied to both. My Yamaha AVR allows for independent selection of each of the two HDMI outputs. Half my problem would have been resolved if I could have the 5308 do AMP audio for HDMI 1 out and TV audio for HDMI 2 out. Not too convenient having to manually switch it back and forth for each room's use.
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