The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 378

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Ah yes, to have a room built for audio. I had such a room for 12 years, not perfect, but damn close. The one part of that house I wish I could have put into the 40' shipping container and sent down here to Ecuador. But I did ship the entire sound system, from that room. Plus a new Marantz TT and Parasound 7 channel pre-amp, with analogue bass management.

I thought I'd repost this graph of the L890 for all of you who may have these speakers. Notice the dip between 80~200 htz.

That's my exact living room 7.1 setup. I've got the L890s as mains, LC2 center, L8400P sub, L820 sides, and L830 rears. I can't say enough about the Studio L Series. Solid build quality, good looks, great sound. I'm also very pleased with the HK AVR3600 too (great auto setup feature, HDMI etc).

I agree about room size, as a determinant of whether the L880 or L890 are right for you.

Just so I had all my bases covered, I bought an extra L8400P, an LC1, and two extra pairs of L820, so I can configure the best lineup for any future living rooms.

I was going to buy an extra set of L890, but my wife couldn't see the point. I have agreed to hold off (for now )

You never know when a great deal on something even better will come along so it's a good idea to leave yourself some room.

What, like a better GF to come along, I'll drink to that?

I've been drinking to that and wantonly buying JBLs for over a decade now.

Nonetheless, it's the whole package, and Mark's doing great with Tammy and his JBLs. Heck, I'd even dump (most) of my gear just to keep Huikyong here, but the excellent thing is I won't have to make that choice. Now that is effing sweet, huh?

Still, all you guys, the relationship is the most important thing. That makes or breaks everything else. When your closest friend cuddles with you on the couch and says, "I really like these speakers" that she knows you didn't need and cost too much, well, that's a good relationship.

I'd cuddle on the couch with you for those speakers.

But then the question becomes, do you have a room worthy of those 9900s?

When I was in Japan in Oct. the dealer who had a pair of Everest II did not have a room worthy of them. So we could only really get a taste of what those speakers could do.

Mark, I'm sending you a first class ticket to LA and my address via PM.

Oh, hi, Huikyong, what am I doing? Just messing around on line. Don't read that! Okay, it's just a joke! Please, put that screwdriver down... Oh geez.... ;#>]_

LOL, Nice way to start the day.

As I got tired of a less than adequate soundstage for stereo in this narrow room, I pulled out the custom pair of L212s. Co-mounted them with the PT800s and put on a LP. Ah, the full soundstage is back.
Never underestimate a pair of mirror imaged speakers, with a biased XO.

So now I only use the L212s for LPs and CDs. And use the 5 PT800s for DVD-A/SACD.

What do you use with the PT's for LF?

A pair of JBL SUB1500s. I use those with both the L212 and PT800. The 1500 was designed by Revel for their sub in the late '90s.

I run everything thru a Parasound P7 pre-amp. For the L212s I set the P7 to full range, the subs @ either 50, or 80.
That is how that system was designed, the L212 towers have an acoustical XO of 70, due to the size of the sealed mid-bass enclosure.
The P7 gives options; full range, 50, 80 for both HF, LF.

For the PT800 I set them to 80, as the PT800 is -6db @ 80.
The L212 will play lower than the PT800 as they're -3db @ 70; -6db @ 52, -9db @ 35.
But what gives this pair of L212s a better soundstage than the PT800s in stereo is they're mirror imaged and of coarse, the biased XO certainly comes into play.

If this is the case then why wouldn't it be better to cross over at a higher frequency like 100-Hz?

If one is using the PS 1400 subs, with the PT800 mounted to them, then the internal 130 htz XO is used. But when the PT800s are separate from those subs, then 80 htz is used. But the 1400s are not -6db @ 80, they're -6db @130 and the PT800 is closer to 0db @ 130.

As I use the SUB1500, which are VLF, I use 80 htz with the PT800.

I don't have PS1400s. I'm using four HTPS400s with the PT800s. I'm currently using 80-Hz. I'm planning to do some experimentation by moving up by 20-Hz up to 120-Hz.

While I think that's a great combination, the HTPS400 is lacking in mid-bass (60-120Hz) response. So addition of a mid-bass module or 2 might be preferable to trying to make the HTPS400 go where it's not at it's best. I sometimes like to put my PS1400/PT800 stacks on a 40Hz crossover with the HTPS400 handling <40Hz, and the results are pretty nice. What would I suggest as a mid-bass sub?---- the PS1400, of course.

So what you're saying is that I need to spend more money.

Like RG said, the HTPS400 is better suited to VLF, much like my SUB1500.
What many people don't understand when they first read about of buy the PS is the PT800/PS1400 full range stacks are more geared to playing music than used for serious HT, as those subs are not VLF, like the SUB1500 or HTPS400.

I suspect if I were ever to buy a pair of 1400s that I would notice an improvement in the transition between the PT800s and subs, compared to what I have now.
But considering where I live, I'd have a hard time finding any. Most likely I've got the only PS system in SA. Also I don't like the looks of the PT800 raised above the 1400s. I much prefer how my 800s sit on top of the 1500s, but still have the same c/c distance between the 908ti and sub drivers.

Ha, well "need" is a relative concept. You have a great system, but is that ever enough?

If you are able to EQ both subs and PT800 effectively, the differences will be small.

You guys are a bad influence.

EQ doesn't always work or be better. I read yesterday in the HK 7550 HD thread, that one owner of that AVR gets no base when the EZSet-EQ is run. But if he turns it off, all 4 subs are pumping out the bass.

Right now I don't have any EQ in my system, as I'm only using a Parasound analogue P7 pre-amp with no AVR. I gave the AVR635 to my daughter to power her L890s.

Running full range PT800/PS1400 stacks also has the advantage of everything coming from the same place. Not only do you get the benefit of the PS1400 working up to 130Hz, but you also avoid a lot of room interaction challenges that you get running just PT800's with conventional subs (400's or whatever) somewhere else in the room.

While I think this is less important for HT use, for music, those differences add up to be quite noticeable.

Tools like Audyssey are great but it is better to not have a problem in the first place than it is to try and fix it. Also, for what it's worth, I think Harman's EZ set is one of the weakest correction packages. Having been through various AVR's EZ-set results were far inferior to Audyssey, or Audyssey XT. I found EZ set to be quite poor and never used its calibration when I had a H/K.

so if I switched from the L8400 to an HTPS400, what xover frequency do you use in place of the missing "LFE" switch I use now?

When I put four PS1400s with four PT800s stacked on them with four HTPS400s as subs and a PC600 as my multichannel music system, some guys thought I was crazy. When I put them in a in a room with only two walls, they thought I was certifiable. When I only used common household items for treatments, they said I was criminally insane. When I (and my nameless accomplices) used EQ to settle it in, they cried "Heresy! Heresy! Madness!"

Won't work.

Can't do it.

Impossible.

Not a chance.

Yet, I think some of you get it. That's comforting.

It's nice to have a stereo full range system (2.0), 2.1 system, 3.0 system, 3.1 system, quadrophonic system (4.0)*, 4.1 system, 5.1 system, and a 5Stereo system all in one. Oh yeah, it sounds fantastic!

*just for Chicago Transit Authority and Aretha!

It depends on what your current speakers are good at. With the Performance Series set up at my place, the HTPS400 and PS1400 meet at 40 Hz. Yep, they're only running from 40 Hz on down to 21 Hz (measured at -5dB at that point). Yes, for the technically minded the crossover slope means they're still outputting something above 40 Hz and below 21 Hz, but I think everyone understands that. Well, if I really believed that no one would point out the obvious, I guess I wouldn't have to write it, huh?

In any event, it seems like a waste of four powerful subs! You've heard it, though, so you must have an opinion about how well it works.

The LE14H-3 is pretty solid down to around 32 Hz, but letting it back off a little gives it more alacrity in the 40-130 Hz range that it's still outputting fully.

Whatever you pair the HTPS400 with, I'd start with the lowest available crossover that matches where your current speaker starts to run out of gas, then walk the crossover point up incrementally until you find the better one. Having a test disk with a LF tone sweep is a nice tool to use, and if you couple it with a keen ear and an RTA, you can see as well as hear what's going on. I wrote "better" rather than "best" because all will have compromises. You decide which one sounds the best to you.

I had to look that one up. Remember the old days when you had to get out the dictionary. Now you just highlight it and there you go. So easy to learn now days.

So what I'm hearing is I need 2 more 1400's and 4 400's. Lanya!

One can never have too many of either, or both.

I just found another HTPS400 at the local i-sold-it for next to nothing and couldn't let it sit there alone. I brought it home and added it to the litter. It's so happy now! Aww!