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The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 380

post #11371 of 14058
5/18/11 at 3:06pm
Do any JBL fans of the past, remember the 62T speaker?
I just won it on Ebay - I was behind twice, and both times
the bidder retracted. I have excepted the win, and waiting
for it to be shipped. It is from the 80's
http://jblvintagespeakers.com/jbl-62...nitor-speakers
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post #11372 of 14058
5/18/11 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post
It doesn't take long for a thread to fall several pages back, so did I mention that after a long, long series of auditions I finally bought new amps to drive my JBL K2s and accompanying subs?
What amps did you end up with? What subs are you using with the K2s?
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post #11373 of 14058
5/18/11 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

What amps did you end up with? What subs are you using with the K2s?

I ended up with a pair of ATI 2000 Series amps, model 2003. That's two amps with three 200W channels.

Each amp handles one stereo channel by devoting two amplification channels to the K2 (one to HF input and one to LF input) and one amplification channel to the JBL Synthesis® S2S sub that backs up each K2.

There were a lot of contenders, including some very high end, high $$$$ units that came through here, but in the end I didn't want to pay a few thousand dollars extra to have a nice Al billet faceplate or a high profile brand name where I was paying for the marketing budget and the brand equity. Heck, a lot of these prestige amps are made by ATI anyway, so I was able to go straight to the factory here in SoCal and buy direct.

Happy!
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post #11374 of 14058
5/18/11 at 8:21pm
BTW, the S2S subs are crossed into the system at 40 Hz, and their only role is to provide that last little bit of LF oomph that I want when I'm playing dance tracks, trance, and club mixes. The gain to them is so low, that 95% of the time they're not doing anything.

It's very subtle and very nice, and I communicated with the designer about implementing them.
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post #11375 of 14058
5/18/11 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

I ended up with a pair of ATI 2000 Series amps, model 2003. That's two amps with three 200W channels.

Each amp handles one stereo channel by devoting two amplification channels to the K2 (one to HF input and one to LF input) and one amplification channel to the JBL Synthesis® S2S sub that backs up each K2.

There were a lot of contenders, including some very high end, high $$$$ units that came through here, but in the end I didn't want to pay a few thousand dollars extra to have a nice Al billet faceplate or a high profile brand name where I was paying for the marketing budget and the brand equity. Heck, a lot of these prestige amps are made by ATI anyway, so I was able to go straight to the factory here in SoCal and buy direct.

Happy!

Just because ATI might make some other amps, doesn't mean they design them. Building is hardly the same as designing an amp.
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post #11376 of 14058
5/18/11 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Just because ATI might make some other amps, doesn't mean they design them. Building is hardly the same as designing an amp.

You are strictly speaking correct. Have you been to the factory to observe the build process? Perhaps you have some first-hand information about this?
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post #11377 of 14058
5/19/11 at 3:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post
You are strictly speaking correct. Have you been to the factory to observe the build process? Perhaps you have some first-hand information about this?
First off, I'm NOT saying they don't build good amps, I've read that ATI does build good amps.

What I am saying is that all the amps they might build are not the same. And some will be better than others.

I don't know for which companies they do build for, but lets say they build for Parasound. I know that Parasound has their own design teams, one of which is CTC, which is John Curl and his two partners.

There are many paths one can take to design an amp, and CTC amps are usually quite different and better than most. Most certainly their JC-1 mono block.
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post #11378 of 14058
5/19/11 at 6:09am
Hi guys,

Quick question...what would you consider paying for a used pair of JBL Northridge E90's? They appear to be in great shape. I have been back and forth with the guy and I think he is still off the mark.

Thanks
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post #11379 of 14058
5/19/11 at 7:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nixxer View Post
Hi guys,

Quick question...what would you consider paying for a used pair of JBL Northridge E90's? They appear to be in great shape. I have been back and forth with the guy and I think he is still off the mark.

Thanks
Not the answer you're looking for, but they are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. The ES90 can be had for $250/ea new, so 50% of that would be reasonable IMO. Supply and demand, it depends on how many people are looking at them and how much the guy really wants to sell them.
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post #11380 of 14058
5/19/11 at 7:33am
My attempt to sell my S38's was thwarted by UPS's package destroyers... I packed them up pretty damn good, going to far as to build foam protectors for the drivers in the front and binding posts in the rear. But UPS either dropped them from so high up or stacked so much weight on top of them that they actually caved in the rear panel of one of the speaker boxes! The eBay buyer also claims the grilles were never delivered or that they were stolen from his porch...

Fortunately UPS paid my claim, but only for one speaker and they wanted the other one back for salvage... So what the hell do I do with one S38 with dinged corners and no grille? Part it out?
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post #11381 of 14058
5/19/11 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaball77 View Post
My attempt to sell my S38's was thwarted by UPS's package destroyers... I packed them up pretty damn good, going to far as to build foam protectors for the drivers in the front and binding posts in the rear. But UPS either dropped them from so high up or stacked so much weight on top of them that they actually caved in the rear panel of one of the speaker boxes! The eBay buyer also claims the grilles were never delivered or that they were stolen from his porch...

Fortunately UPS paid my claim, but only for one speaker and they wanted the other one back for salvage... So what the hell do I do with one S38 with dinged corners and no grille? Part it out?
I'm interested in the tweeter if it's not dented.
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post #11382 of 14058
5/19/11 at 8:04am
There's bound to be someone out there looking for a single S38 either for parts or for a center. I'd eBay the thing whole and be sure to list part numbers in the listing.
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post #11383 of 14058
5/19/11 at 10:48am
Well all I wanted to do was ask a question with regards to system break in/burn in so I will fire away here on this post...

Basically I have subwoofer system consisting of: Sony Xplod head unit, two vibe blackair door speakers and tweeters (360w max/ 120w rms), vibe space 2x12" ported subwoofer enclosure (6000w max/ 2000w rms), two blackair amps (one amp for each sub speaker) and a delta splitter signal box.

What I wanted to know is not whether system break in exists or not because I know for fact it does to some extent, but what the best way to break in the system was (vibe recommends 30 hours at low/mid volume at mid bass and then graudally build from there).

I left it on my drive playing at very low volume 5 (max volume on head unit is 34) for about 8 hours continuously on repeat. I heard that to get any sort of productive burn in you have to play at at least mid volume because it wont work the speakers at all at such low volumes otherwise. However when i checked after 8 hours of playback on low volume my speakers were slightly warmed up and i could see the subs vibrating a lil so surely they must be working a tad bit right?

I do drive round normally with volume 20 or so to break them in but if im not driving and i dont want my neighbours to hear it playing on the drive I play it low volume with windows wound up. I want to know if this will still help with the break in process or will it only work when playing at mid volumes?

Thanks guys, any help with this or how to get the most out of my system in general would be much appreciated! =D
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post #11384 of 14058
5/19/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DACNinja View Post

Well all I wanted to do was ask a question with regards to system break in/burn in so I will fire away here on this post...

Basically I have subwoofer system consisting of: Sony Xplod head unit, two vibe blackair door speakers and tweeters (360w max/ 120w rms), vibe space 2x12" ported subwoofer enclosure (6000w max/ 2000w rms), two blackair amps (one amp for each sub speaker) and a delta splitter signal box.

What I wanted to know is not whether system break in exists or not because I know for fact it does to some extent, but what the best way to break in the system was (vibe recommends 30 hours at low/mid volume at mid bass and then graudally build from there).

I left it on my drive playing at very low volume 5 (max volume on head unit is 34) for about 8 hours continuously on repeat. I heard that to get any sort of productive burn in you have to play at at least mid volume because it wont work the speakers at all at such low volumes otherwise. However when i checked after 8 hours of playback on low volume my speakers were slightly warmed up and i could see the subs vibrating a lil so surely they must be working a tad bit right?

I do drive round normally with volume 20 or so to break them in but if im not driving and i dont want my neighbours to hear it playing on the drive I play it low volume with windows wound up. I want to know if this will still help with the break in process or will it only work when playing at mid volumes?

Thanks guys, any help with this or how to get the most out of my system in general would be much appreciated! =D

I think you want to post this in the car audio forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...prune=30&f=160
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post #11385 of 14058
5/20/11 at 12:37am
Last year when I put my Performance Series HT together, I noticed that one of my PT800s had no tweeter behind the EOS Wave Guide. When I removed the wave guide, I found that the tweeter had come out of the tweeter frame. It looked like it had been glued in and just fell out during shipping. I looked further into it and found that the tweeter did not have the part number of the original. I check the others and found that all four PT800s and the PC600 did not have the original tweeters. I replaced all five tweeters with the originals. Four from S26s I bought on ebay and the fifth from a parted out S312. I took the four good non-original tweeters and put them in the S26s and gave them to my brother. Now for the question. The non-original tweeters had small washers between the tweeter frame and waveguide. I kept them in place with the original tweeters. I saw on the Performance thread that the original setup did not use the washers. Will this make a difference. I'd rather not remove them again if I don't have to. It's always risky to pull the delicate domes out of the wave guides.

Sorry for the long roundabout way of asking the question but I thought it might be good information for anyone considering PS speakers.
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post #11386 of 14058
5/20/11 at 6:53am
I suspect the washer was included to keep the attachment plate firmly in place, which is kind of ironic since it failed to do that on the one that fell out. There were actually a couple of different Ti dome tweeters used in the PT800, with a different model number in the latter runs.

Its mounting plate was thinner, but apparently JBL had a lot of the original hardware mounting screws and needed the washer to make up the difference in thickness. I think (but do not know for sure) that it was put in front to make sure the Ti dome didn't get too close to the cap on the EOS WaveGuide.

Your instinct is right that you don't want to open them all up and risk damaging one just to remove the washer. It's not hurting anything. If you had offset the driver by 1/4" or something, then maybe it would make sense.
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post #11387 of 14058
5/20/11 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

Mark, Filecat mentioned that two of his PS1400s had the output posts labeled wrong. Have you checked yours. I'm curious because I got mine from the same source as you did.

I have not but now that you bring it up I might just take a look this weekend. I'm also a little curious about the tweeters and what version I have and is it the best one?
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post #11388 of 14058
5/20/11 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

I have not but now that you bring it up I might just take a look this weekend. I'm also a little curious about the tweeters and what version I have and is it the best one?

Here is the latest from Harman as to the tweeter:

The Part # is: 361194-001
The price is $ 33.20, plus shipping and handling (For U.S. orders only).
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post #11389 of 14058
5/20/11 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Here is the latest from Harman as to the tweeter:

The Part # is: 361194-001
The price is $ 33.20, plus shipping and handling (For U.S. orders only).

Please post the link for that. The parts list on the Harman site still shows it as "Discontinued".
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post #11390 of 14058
5/20/11 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

Please post the link for that. The parts list on the Harman site still shows it as "Discontinued".

I sent an email and that was their reply.
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post #11391 of 14058
5/20/11 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I sent an email and that was their reply.

Very good news. Thank you.
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post #11392 of 14058
5/21/11 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

The non-original tweeters had small washers between the tweeter frame and waveguide.

JBL built the PT800's with at least two different PN tweeters, the later ones had the washers installed. I have no opinion as to which PN is better or worse (I can't tell a difference) but I know they used at least two PN's from the factory, so there are at least three total PN's including the current service part that are acceptable. Why they did this I cannot say, but it is absolutely true.

The later production part and the current service part are in a slightly different flange, thus the need for the washers. If you do not use the washers the flange of the service part tweeter will bend down a little bit during installation. Given it is plastic, there is a chance the flanges will crack or just give up over time and break. So imho, it is worth getting the washers in there.

I'm the same guy that also troubleshot the chance of PS1400's having reversed terminals, and that there are two different finishes on the waveguide, the later finish being a bit more matte and just slightly lighter.

Not my info, but the PS1400 amplifiers were also upgraded late in production, though nobody has been able to give a specific explanation of how or why they were changed. My guess would fitment of better quality or more conservative caps.

All this stuff is over in the excellent Lansing Heritage PS thread, sorry I don't know all the PN's by heart.
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post #11393 of 14058
5/21/11 at 2:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slare View Post

JBL built the PT800's with at least two different PN tweeters, the later ones had the washers installed. I have no opinion as to which PN is better or worse (I can't tell a difference) but I know they used at least two PN's from the factory, so there are at least three total PN's including the current service part that are acceptable. Why they did this I cannot say, but it is absolutely true.

The later production part and the current service part are in a slightly different flange, thus the need for the washers. If you do not use the washers the flange of the service part tweeter will bend down a little bit during installation. Given it is plastic, there is a chance the flanges will crack or just give up over time and break. So imho, it is worth getting the washers in there.

I'm the same guy that also troubleshot the chance of PS1400's having reversed terminals, and that there are two different finishes on the waveguide, the later finish being a bit more matte and just slightly lighter.

Not my info, but the PS1400 amplifiers were also upgraded late in production, though nobody has been able to give a specific explanation of how or why they were changed. My guess would fitment of better quality or more conservative caps.

All this stuff is over in the excellent Lansing Heritage PS thread, sorry I don't know all the PN's by heart.

Thanks for the information Slare.
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post #11394 of 14058
5/21/11 at 3:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slare View Post

JBL built the PT800's with at least two different PN tweeters, the later ones had the washers installed. I have no opinion as to which PN is better or worse (I can't tell a difference) but I know they used at least two PN's from the factory, so there are at least three total PN's including the current service part that are acceptable. Why they did this I cannot say, but it is absolutely true.

Being one is replacing a Ti with another Ti there would not be much, if any difference. Replace a Ti with a soft dome, for instance, and then you will hear a big difference.


Quote:


I'm the same guy that also troubleshot the chance of PS1400's having reversed terminals, and that there are two different finishes on the waveguide, the later finish being a bit more matte and just slightly lighter.

Finding reversed terminals would be the result of someone not paying attention during assembly. I found the same thing last year on my new Marantz TT, that came with an $800 cartridge. It just did not sound right, thin with no phantom center. I looked at the pin connections again, they were right. Then on a hunch I reversed two of the wires at the cartridge, and sure enough, it was all good.

Quote:


Not my info, but the PS1400 amplifiers were also upgraded late in production, though nobody has been able to give a specific explanation of how or why they were changed. My guess would fitment of better quality or more conservative caps.

There were a number of amp failures early production, it was quite common. I never had a PS1400, as I had already bought a pair of SUB1500s drivers for $250/ea and built my own subs almost 3 years before I bought 5 PT800s. And the 1500s go much deeper <20 htz. And one of the best movies to show off that deep bass is Shooter, feel the pressure on your chest and pant legs blowing in the resulting wind.
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post #11395 of 14058
5/21/11 at 10:36pm
Over on the LH site there were at least a couple different people that were quite surprised to find the reversed high-pass terminals on their PS1400's after I posted some pics. If you have PS1400's, it is worth taking the time to check it out.

I have four PS1400's and would love to know if anyone can identify the SN break points of amplifiers being bad, ok, improved. Mine are probably all old enough to be in the bad/ok group, but I have always been nervous about them. JBL built/sourced some extremely terrible subwoofer amplifiers for a long time in the mid nineties up to just a few years ago. It'd be one thing if there was a simple replacement available, but the PS1400 amp is odd in both shape and setup. Even worse, JBL doesn't sell them as service parts. I'd buy a spare or two even if they were quite salty... nothing else is going to wear out on the PS stacks for a long, long time.
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post #11396 of 14058
5/22/11 at 12:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slare View Post

Over on the LH site there were at least a couple different people that were quite surprised to find the reversed high-pass terminals on their PS1400's after I posted some pics. If you have PS1400's, it is worth taking the time to check it out.

I have four PS1400's and would love to know if anyone can identify the SN break points of amplifiers being bad, ok, improved. Mine are probably all old enough to be in the bad/ok group, but I have always been nervous about them. JBL built/sourced some extremely terrible subwoofer amplifiers for a long time in the mid nineties up to just a few years ago. It'd be one thing if there was a simple replacement available, but the PS1400 amp is odd in both shape and setup. Even worse, JBL doesn't sell them as service parts. I'd buy a spare or two even if they were quite salty... nothing else is going to wear out on the PS stacks for a long, long time.

What's the procedure for checking the terminals?
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post #11397 of 14058
5/22/11 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

What's the procedure for checking the terminals?

Look here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ing#post278952

Slare's post is 1366. My rimshot is 1372.
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post #11398 of 14058
5/22/11 at 9:28am
It might be more accurate to write that some PS1400 amps were upgraded post production. During the production run, pretty much the entire PS1400 lot got the same amp. Variances were due to parts availability, but the fundamental design did not change.

When some of the early run units started to exhibit odd behavior leading to failure, production was essentially finished already. Before the final push to clear out the remaining Performance Series stock to dealers at blow out prices, the PS1400 amps were "beefed up" with better parts for the components that were problematic.

Looking at the amp's tightly closed housing, it's easy to see that a lot of heat can build up inside even in a cool running design. A chip in one of mine got so hot it blew its top off and started to smoke. I was really, really lucky to get all four PS1400s retrofitted before the Northridge facility was basically shut down. I literally drove up there to pick up the last two at the end of their last week.

It's a safe bet that all amps fail eventually, especially those that live inside sub enclosures. Fortunately, it should be possible to externally amp them with a couple of internal modifications. Get out your drill and soldering gun.
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post #11399 of 14058
5/22/11 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

What's the procedure for checking the terminals?

Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Look here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ing#post278952

Slare's post is 1366. My rimshot is 1372.

Photo

It's the plate that's turned around, the wiring is fine. You just have to be sure that red goes to red on the PT800. IOW, the docking straps can't be used if the plate is bassackwards.
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post #11400 of 14058
5/22/11 at 1:25pm
Found a set of S38s in black on craigslist. He's only asking $100 and they look to be in good shape. Seems like a fair price. Would these be worth getting to replace my N38s as my front L&R? I currently have an s center II for the CC.
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