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The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 434

post #12991 of 15022
So has anyone heard or seen any competent reviews on the Studio 590 ?

Just wondering if they are worth double the price of the L890.
post #12992 of 15022
Haven't seen a full review anywhere (there's one review from a buyer on Amazon), but in TRYING to find a dealer to hear them, the official Studio 590 JBL website doesn't indicate there are any dealers within 50 miles of Chicago, or NYC, or Los Angeles...
post #12993 of 15022
I'm not a happy camper. Amazon cancelled my order for the $13 JBL LC1 center channel speaker.

Really - even in the days of internet sales, they're not going to honor this? It wasn't like I put 10 of them into my shopping cart...

of course, they say I can re-order the same item, at the updated price of $254.97...



Greetings from Amazon.com,

We're writing to inform you that your order 102-2995199-0865067 from 3 Kings Audio has been canceled.

In most cases, you pay for items when we ship them to you, so you won't be charged for items that are canceled. In some cases (e.g., you use a gift card or your debit card is processed as a PIN-less transaction), you may see a charge for a canceled item. If you are charged for a canceled item, we will refund you within 1-2 business days.

If you're still interested in this item, please search for it again on Amazon.com.

We've included your order details below for reference.

We value you as a customer and hope you will continue shopping on Amazon.com.

==================================================
ORDER DETAILS
==================================================

1 of JBL LC1 3-Way, High Performance Dual 5 -1/4-Inch Center Channel Loudspeaker (Black)
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000LRA6TM)
post #12994 of 15022
I wonder what would have happened if you had ordered the package of the LC1, L830, ES250 that they showed a total of $625.89.
The three pieces of that package came from different dealers.
post #12995 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

I'm not a happy camper. Amazon cancelled my order for the $13 JBL LC1 center channel speaker.

Really - even in the days of internet sales, they're not going to honor this? It wasn't like I put 10 of them into my shopping cart...

of course, they say I can re-order the same item, at the updated price of $254.97...

No surprise. But Amazon was not the seller, it was a 3rd party. The original page is gone and now just shows the Amazon listing. Might have been a bogus listing.
post #12996 of 15022
Here's what I got from the 3rd party seller:

Good Morning,

Thank you for your recent order. Unfortunately due to a system error this product was incorrectly linked, the model for the $13.23 price was the PAC LC2 Level Controller, not the JBL product on the Amazon listing.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience on this and have cancelled your order, you will not be charged.

To compensate you this inconvenience we would like to offer you a discount on a future order. Please reach out to us describing this issue and we will credit back a percentage of your next order.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter, fortunately this was caught because you received the level controller. Once again we apologize for the inconvenience, if there is anything else we can do for you don't hesitate to ask.

I emailed him back, asking what sort of discount on a future order he was talking about....
I wanted a center channel for my 77 year old father who's hard of hearing. At $13.23 it would've been a great gift, but not for $255...
For that money, I'd get an LC2, but I already have one, and my father wouldn't be able to hear the difference...
post #12997 of 15022
Well, they're quick to reply...


Hi XXXX,

We'll offer a 15% discount up to $25.

Does your father have a receiver to plug speakers into?

Kind Regards,




So I gotta order $167 worth of goods, to get a $25 discount. I would end up paying at least $142.
My father obviously already has a receiver with a center channel output...
post #12998 of 15022
I ordered one this morning and just got confirmation that it's been shipped for $13.23! sposed to arrive Tues./Wed.
post #12999 of 15022
Well, let me know what they send you. They told me the $13.23 price was for the PAC LC2 Level Controller, not the JBL product on the Amazon listing.
post #13000 of 15022
this ought to be interesting.....
post #13001 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Well now, all you country fans can have genuine country star branded JBL headphones.

http://www.i4u.com/50497/tim-mcgraw-...hones-released

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post


Yeah, Take THAT Dr. Dre!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang View Post

Look like nice headphones, if only you could get them without that Tim McGraw crap on them!

I actually ordered these yesterday from J&R and will get them Thursday.

I need a descent headphone to listen to music at work and figured I'd give these a try. Will see...
post #13002 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang View Post

I actually ordered these yesterday from J&R and will get them Thursday.
I need a descent headphone to listen to music at work and figured I'd give these a try. Will see...

this part of the thread is what led me to searching and then buying these AKGs
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=K350CRM&status=

at an inexplicable $38 clearance price on bestbuy.com that lasted a couple days with them now selling for 80 bucks again?

look forward to your report
post #13003 of 15022
I thought about getting the K512MKII or K514MKII, but they weren't in stock yet as they are newer models.

I'll try to share my thoughts next week sometime, even though I'm on the beginner's side of the bench smile.gif
post #13004 of 15022
Just made my first JBL purchase, a LC2.
It will followed shortly by a pair of L820's, L890's, a L8400P, and Pioneer 1121-k receiver.
post #13005 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethompson6 View Post

Just made my first JBL purchase, a LC2.
It will followed shortly by a pair of L820's, L890's, a L8400P, and Pioneer 1121-k receiver.
You will certainly be happy with those selections. The Studio L series is very hard to better in their price range.
post #13006 of 15022
If you can score/justify two L8400s at the same time, do it.

I guess I'm content with the one I have, as my room isn't very large and don't have to turn it up, but there are days when I wonder what it'd be like with two subs...
post #13007 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

If you can score/justify two L8400s at the same time, do it.

I guess I'm content with the one I have, as my room isn't very large and don't have to turn it up, but there are days when I wonder what it'd be like with two subs...

Assuming retail pricing, there are better choices than the L8400P whether you're talking one or more. That said, it's also true that there's no such thing as too many subs. But if I was limited to one, whether it's cost , room, spouse or whatever, I'd go with something else unless the L8400P was available cheap. They'll have to bury me with my HTPS400, unless I manage to get an Array 1500 before I die. Anyhow, I use 3 subs and would gladly add one or 2 more.

Back OT, I'd be looking at a big-assed single 15" sub before I'd get 2 L8400P.
post #13008 of 15022
My price on the 8400 is $500. What else is a good sub in that price range?
post #13009 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethompson6 View Post

My price on the 8400 is $500. What else is a good sub in that price range?

Consult the dedicated sub forum here. Several good options.

Used gear is where the real values are, assuming you don't get burned.
post #13010 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

You will certainly be happy with those selections. The Studio L series is very hard to better in their price range.

I second this sentiment (but I have a distinct bias). smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotAce View Post

If you can score/justify two L8400s at the same time, do it.
I guess I'm content with the one I have, as my room isn't very large and don't have to turn it up, but there are days when I wonder what it'd be like with two subs...

I also second this sentiment, they play with far more authority and SPL with two in the house. I had one for a year and a half and now have had two for about 6 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Back OT, I'd be looking at a big-assed single 15" sub before I'd get 2 L8400P.

You can get a HSU VTF-15 or UTF-15, or a Rythmik 15" for about a grand (mostly a touch over it) which would put them in the range of the two L8400s at your $500 price, but there's not a good 15" option that approximates the price of the L8400.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethompson6 View Post

My price on the 8400 is $500. What else is a good sub in that price range?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Consult the dedicated sub forum here. Several good options.
Used gear is where the real values are, assuming you don't get burned.

I love this question/response combo. I've seen it too many times. There's always a lot of hand waving about high numbers of better options and "search for yourself" advice. In my own experience (and I've been knocking around shopping for 3rd and 4th subs to take me farther toward 15-20 Hz for a bit now) is that you can get something better in performance (but not appearance) in the $600-$700 range like the Elemental Designs A3-300 or SVS SB-12NSD or the Outlaw LMF1-EX (if you're shopping new. If you want it to match your system in appearance or fit into smaller spaces, you're mainly SOL). If you're shopping used, you might even do better just to build the thing yourself and at least have an amp and driver that haven't been abused or bottomed out repeatedly. Parts Express has all the fixin's plus kits in similar ranges of price (~$580-$630 for 12"ers, ~$790 for 15"ers). There's a lot of claim out there, but the L8400 honestly doesn't hold up too badly even in Tom Noussaine's crazy room (linked). People underrate it, but then again I'm drinking the Kool-aid and have already replaced a 2 year old amp in one.

If you want to snipe for an HTPS400 on ebay, you can have a long wait, but their prices have been ridiculously reasonable in the past at times (as well as ridiculously high at times).
Edited by nlsteele - 6/20/12 at 6:44pm
post #13011 of 15022
I may be the least qualified to give tech opinions on a range of subs, but for all the bashing I find my L8400 to perform quite well in my otherwise Performance Series HT

I've heard the usual suspects at a few shops (Magnolia, etc) and wasn't impressed. In particular, I went to the HSU Research open house, hosted by Dr Hsu (with filecat) and left scratching my head over what the hype was about, and if my fellow tourists spend too much time reading the advertisements on AVS??

My main use is MCH music and I think the L8400 does a super job for the 0.1 portion.

Though I'm now more intrigued about picking up a second unit for movies? tell me more!
Edited by ajl1 - 6/21/12 at 10:06pm
post #13012 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post

I may be the least qualified to give tech opinions on a range of subs, but for all the bashing I find my L8400 to perform quite well in my otherwise Performance Series HT
I've heard the usual suspects at a few shops (Magnolia, etc) and wasn't impressed. In particular, I went to the HSU Research open house, hosted by Dr Hsu (with filecat) and left scratching my head over what the hype was about, and if my fellow tourists spend too much time reading the advertisements on AVS??
My main use is MCH music and I think the L8400 does a super for the 0.1 portion.
Though I'm not more intrigued now about picking up a second unit for movies? tell me more!

I have never heard, to my knowledge, any of the ID subs, so I have zero experience with them. But knowing how marketing anything usually has its share of outright BS, I am not surprised by your lack of enthusiasm for HSU.

As for subs in general, using more than one is always a good thing. If for no other reason than to smooth out the LFR.
And I've had at least one sub in my systems since '79. Back then the thought was as LF below 70 htz is non-directional one was only needed. And it was only a 75w sub at that. When the designers of that L212 system, looked back years later, they wished they had at least doubled the sub amp to 150w. Which is what I put in after the original amp finally gave out after more than 20 years later.
Right now I have my two 15" subs stacked @ the centerline of my system, behind a column with the flatscreen in front of it.
post #13013 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post

I may be the least qualified to give tech opinions on a range of subs, but for all the bashing I find my L8400 to perform quite well in my otherwise Performance Series HT

I've heard the usual suspects at a few shops (Magnolia, etc) and wasn't impressed. In particular, I went to the HSU Research open house, hosted by Dr Hsu (with filecat) and left scratching my head over what the hype was about, and if my fellow tourists spend too much time reading the advertisements on AVS??

My main use is MCH music and I think the L8400 does a super for the 0.1 portion.

Though I'm not more intrigued now about picking up a second unit for movies? tell me more!

It should go without saying that a $500 sub of any brand will have it's limitations, and often the differences will fall into the personal preference category. "musical" vs LF extension, ported vs sealed, etc. At $400, the 8400 is a decent contender if you are sticking to "new" subs vs used. But all of them are cutting corners somewhere. I don't find the 8400 to be particularly good for music, but is fine for movies.
I paid $450 for my used HTPS400, which I consider to be a solid contender in the $1000 class.

Folks with cabinet-making skills are able to build considerably more sub for the money, in any price range.
post #13014 of 15022
I searched but haven't found owner or professional reviews of the Studio 5-series speakers (Specifically the 590s), anyone got their ears on a pair yet?

http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/product/productDetails.jsp?pid=STUDIO%20590

480
post #13015 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

It should go without saying that a $500 sub of any brand will have it's limitations, and often the differences will fall into the personal preference category. "musical" vs LF extension, ported vs sealed, etc. At $400, the 8400 is a decent contender if you are sticking to "new" subs vs used. But all of them are cutting corners somewhere. I don't find the 8400 to be particularly good for music, but is fine for movies.
I paid $450 for my used HTPS400, which I consider to be a solid contender in the $1000 class.
Folks with cabinet-making skills are able to build considerably more sub for the money, in any price range.

I have two sets of PS1400s -- one anchoring a set of PT800s as part of a full JBL Performance 5.1 system, and the other pair matched with (behind) a set of two, well-spaced Revel M22s (2.2 channel, music-only "system" works beautifully, crossed over at 100 -120 Hz, a la my amateur take on the PT800/PS1400 co-location theory). They are superb and very musical, and the PT800 set gets impressively low (room gain, I presume) for movies (5.1 set, only) as do both sets of subs for music. I have no aversion to internet-direct brands, but do not subscribe to the notion that JBL engineers develop world class passive speakers yet somehow lack the critical insight or motivation to engineer terrific subwoofers (especially when, for example, the same drivers in the PS1400s anchor speakers like the Array 1400s, and their slightly larger cousins reside in K2s and Everests). This also includes my seemingly rewarded confidence that they developed the PS1400s to reach sufficiently low for all sensible purposes with room gain and similar dynamics brought into account.

This does not necessarily speak to the most inexpensive consumer lines, perhaps (but maybe it does so, as well), but I would imagine that a set of 8400s would treat you just fine (we are talking 1200 total watts and from a company on the cutting edge of audio, after all). I further suspect that some well-lauded subs (below a certain price point, at least) impress most by shear thump (not that they are utterly unsophisticated), as opposed to true, refined, real-world sound.


The M22/PS1400 matched set may also run counter to a recent posting (Revel board, perhaps) that one can easily identify a monitor/sub arrangement versus an otherwise comparable floorstanding speaker set. My narrow M22 stands may interfere a bit with the PS1400 output, but not in any manner that I can detect. Maybe they serve as a serendipitous "waveguide"!
post #13016 of 15022
Interesting. But have you compared the PT800s with the M22s for stereo only playback? In the same room.
post #13017 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post


Right now I have my two 15" subs stacked @ the centerline of my system, behind a column with the flatscreen in front of it.

interesting, IIRC from some literature, ideally they are placed at opposing corners of a room? though I see lotz of photos with two symmetrically placed along the front wall.

I'm not looking to read a white paper, just get a quick recommendation and then spend some green biggrin.gif
post #13018 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Interesting. But have you compared the PT800s with the M22s for stereo only playback? In the same room.

the PTs are -6dB at 80Hz vs -3dB at 48Hz so tough to do that comparison.

since I still have L7s adjacent to my PT/PS stack, I had the idea yesterday to set the xover to 180Hz and A/B above that line to take the woofers out of the L7. I won't qualify what I heard but thats one way i suppose
Edited by ajl1 - 6/21/12 at 10:46pm
post #13019 of 15022
I have four HTPS400's stacked in the front corners & two PS1400's in Performance Stacks. The bass is very even throughout the room.

450
post #13020 of 15022
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post

interesting, IIRC from some literature, ideally they are placed at opposing corners of a room? though I see lotz of photos with two symmetrically placed along the front wall.
I'm not looking to read a white paper, just get a quick recommendation and then spend some green biggrin.gif

Its all room dependent. In an enclosed rectangular room placing subs @ the mid-point of walls is usually best. Although in my last house in Nevada, I found that where I had my mains placed, showed to be the hot spots. So I co-located my L212s with the SUB1500s, much like the PS stacks. And I also had a pair of subs @ the mid-points of the two side walls.

Where I am now, two walls (90* to each other) of the room are brick walls with two 5.5' archways in each. I have the system setup centered on one column between one pair of archways, so the L212s are more less centered in front of those archways, with a 9.5 ft spread. The entire width of the room, along that wall is 27~28 ft. It took me about 3 months to find the location for the mains that provide the best possible soundstage. During all that time moving the speakers around, I decided to remove the L212s from the subs and place the subs behind that column, hiding them and their cables. And then placing the L212s on their original 13" tall stands. It became much, much better. I also had to extremely toe-in the speakers to reduce the affects of early reflections off these damn concrete walls.

After about two weeks, I decided to switch out the L212s for the PT800s and that setup proved to be just as good with the PT800s as the L212s. This is the first time I have ever had the PT800s on those old stands, so they are about 9" lower than when mounted on the subs(which would be the same height as the PT/PS1400 stacks). The result was a much improved soundstage, compared to when I had the PT800s sitting 9" higher. The biggest problem with the PT800s, compared to the L212s is the waveguides. Because the WG produce a much wider soundstage of the HF the early reflections off the concrete walls was much more pronounced. But the aggressive toe-in reduced that considerably, along with using absorption panels.
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