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The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 444

post #13291 of 14118
11/26/12 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Anyhow, do not run those satellite speakers full-range, they are designed for a 70-80 Hz crossover to a sub.

Actually, you CAN run the L212 full range. The design is such that the acoustical XO of the 112A/H will naturally roll off starting @ 70 htz and one octave down (35 htz) will be -18db. Obviously, you will get NO REAL bass from the unit.

In the L212/B212 setup only the UltraBass has an electrical XO @ 70 htz, which is 12db/octave.

Its the same for the PT800. You can run full range, with the same XO conditions. That being an 8" driver in a small, sealed enclosure = acoustical XO. So down -18db @ 40 htz. Or it might be -30db, as I forget what the roll off slope is.
When 4313B (screen name) over at Lansing Heritage first got hold of a pair of PT800s, he wanted to see what they would do. He ran them full range, wall mounted I think, and had no problems
I've done the same thing with both the PT800 and L212. But as I mentioned above, you will be missing the last two octaves.
Edited by 4DHD - 11/26/12 at 3:22pm
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post #13292 of 14118
11/26/12 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

I'm using a Marantz AV7005 with my JBLs and am very happy with the combination.

I hear the AV7005 is a very good pre-amp for music which comes first for me. Are there any negatives you can think of? Have you used any other home theater receivers to compare it to? I am seriously considering this preamp since the price has come down.
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post #13293 of 14118
11/26/12 at 10:04pm
Based on everyone's opinion here which is a better buy the 500 series or the L Series. Considering replacing my center and my surrounds first so need to make a choice.

Thanks in advance.

Also what kind of receiver do these ideally require in terms of powering them enough to get proper performance?

Thanks

Also is 289.99 for an LC2 and 349.99 for a pair of L820's a good deal? Shipped w/ Tax
Edited by KBS756 - 11/26/12 at 10:14pm
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post #13294 of 14118
11/27/12 at 3:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBS756 View Post

Based on everyone's opinion here which is a better buy the 500 series or the L Series. Considering replacing my center and my surrounds first so need to make a choice.
Thanks in advance.
Also what kind of receiver do these ideally require in terms of powering them enough to get proper performance?
Thanks
Also is 289.99 for an LC2 and 349.99 for a pair of L820's a good deal? Shipped w/ Tax

To qualify my pick, I have hands on experience with the Studio L series. The 500 series I have only seen online.
As I said yesterday, I would really like to audition the 590s. But comparing just the centers of those two series, I have to give the nod to the Studio Ls. The only JBL center that would be better is the PC600.

When I had the L890s (now in storage waiting to be shipped to Japan) I powered them with a Parasound 220w amp, Marantz AVR, HK AVR, in various rooms. In the large room (3200 ^3) I used the Parasound w/o a sub the sound was amassing, only missing that last octave (28~14 htz) After I moved my daughter used the HK AVR635 to drive them, but in much smaller rooms.

A pair of L820 list is $550 as I remember, and the LC2 @ $599, so yes good prices.
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post #13295 of 14118
11/27/12 at 8:15am
I will post a classified later today, but if anyone is interested in a Synthesis SDP-40HD with little use send me a message.
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post #13296 of 14118
11/27/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by luxsalesok View Post

I will post a classified later today, but if anyone is interested in a Synthesis SDP-40HD with little use send me a message.

That thing makes my head hurt.

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post #13297 of 14118
11/27/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

That thing makes my head hurt.

Why? Too many inputs/outputs.
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post #13298 of 14118
11/27/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gferrell View Post

I hear the AV7005 is a very good pre-amp for music which comes first for me. Are there any negatives you can think of? Have you used any other home theater receivers to compare it to? I am seriously considering this preamp since the price has come down.

I watch mostly Blu-Ray concerts but I find it great for Blu-Ray movies as well. I have a separate 2-channel system for music only. The prices are good right now with the new models out. You can also get refurbished ones from accessories4less to save even more money. I have a Yamaha RX-V3800 AVR that I was using as a Pre-Pro but wanted to try 3D.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/IntegratedAmp/Home-Audio/Preamp-Processor-Integrated-Amp/1.html

One thing I should add. In addition to 3D, I also wanted to try Audyssey, which I really like. On the down side, the AV7005 has Audyssey MultEQ XT and not the newest version Audyssey MultEQ XT32.
Edited by EZ-Rhino - 11/28/12 at 4:34am
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post #13299 of 14118
11/29/12 at 7:13am
Newegg now has the Studio 180 for $150 shipped via promo code, and they also sell the rest of the Studio 1 line now. Excellent price for a great speaker.
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post #13300 of 14118
11/30/12 at 9:18am
Hello all,

I am looking at the JBL L830, and not sure what to pair it with for a center. I have an 82 inch DLP that sits out about 25 inches from the wall, and I am wondering about the LC2. Since it is intended to be wall mounted, would I lose anything by having is under the tv away from the wall on a shelf? Or would I be better off with the L820's for front L/R and rear surrounds (or L810 for rear). Then wall mount the center above the tv with the 820's wall mounted on the sides almost at the same level. Since the tv sticks out from the wall I am concerned about it blocking some of the sound. Would the LC1 be sufficient for the L830's? My room is 20x25 with 8 foot ceilings. Only one small opening the size of a doorway on the far left side furthest away from the setup. The other thing is with a 17 inch tall stand, the tv sits almost 6 feet at its top, so the placement of the LC2 on the wall above would be quite high and close to the ceiling. With the LC1, I can put it in front of the tv on the stand at 17 inches and have the L830's at the same depth and lower on either side of the tv on stands.

Thanks for any replies.
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post #13301 of 14118
11/30/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by undsioux7 View Post

Hello all,
I am looking at the JBL L830, and not sure what to pair it with for a center. I have an 82 inch DLP that sits out about 25 inches from the wall, and I am wondering about the LC2. Since it is intended to be wall mounted, would I lose anything by having is under the tv away from the wall on a shelf? Or would I be better off with the L820's for front L/R and rear surrounds (or L810 for rear). Then wall mount the center above the tv with the 820's wall mounted on the sides almost at the same level. Since the tv sticks out from the wall I am concerned about it blocking some of the sound. Would the LC1 be sufficient for the L830's? My room is 20x25 with 8 foot ceilings. Only one small opening the size of a doorway on the far left side furthest away from the setup. The other thing is with a 17 inch tall stand, the tv sits almost 6 feet at its top, so the placement of the LC2 on the wall above would be quite high and close to the ceiling. With the LC1, I can put it in front of the tv on the stand at 17 inches and have the L830's at the same depth and lower on either side of the tv on stands.
Thanks for any replies.
The LC2 can be used either way. It does gain some boundary reinforcement in the mid-bass, when wall mounted.
All the Studio L models are meant to work together, that said, most people prefer matching like speakers. ie. L820/LC2, L830/LC1 at least for the LCRs. Using the L820/LC2 for the LCRs and a pair of L830/L810 for surrounds is good.

If you do not have a clear view from your seat to a LC2 wall mounted, then place it out front, below the screen, in front of the stand, tiled back, so its firing towards seated ear level.
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post #13302 of 14118
12/1/12 at 3:15pm
Okay, so my Studio L family is whole and 'nekked' again now that I've replaced an L8400 transducer that got damaged (crushed dustcap and tear in the cone) by my wife's amazing dancing skills. But now I'm curious: what would my best route be to get the old unit reconed? Does JBL do this? Would I need to go with Orange County or another service? Can anyone ballpark the kind of price am I looking at (I have no clue; the new transducer was only $130)?

All help is appreciated.

p.s. I think I remember someone looking for replacement Ti tweeters for something Studio L, they'll be back in stock on December 2nd, and I've got one coming.
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post #13303 of 14118
12/1/12 at 3:59pm
If you can get a whole driver for $130, forget repairing one. Re-cones generally cost more than that.
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post #13304 of 14118
12/1/12 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

If you can get a whole driver for $130, forget repairing one. Re-cones generally cost more than that.

I thought that might be the case, but had hoped it wasn't. Ah well...rolleyes.gif
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post #13305 of 14118
12/1/12 at 8:21pm
Well if your spouse is going to continue with the dancing thing, a spare driver might be a good thing. They won't be available forever.
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post #13306 of 14118
12/2/12 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlsteele View Post

Okay, so my Studio L family is whole and 'nekked' again now that I've replaced an L8400 transducer that got damaged (crushed dustcap and tear in the cone) by my wife's amazing dancing skills. But now I'm curious: what would my best route be to get the old unit reconed? Does JBL do this?

Did you get a video of this? Might get a few thousand hits on YouTube.
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post #13307 of 14118
12/4/12 at 10:07pm
My l8400p is out again. After a mysteriously melted voice coil last year, now it won't stay on. When I flip the switch, sometimes nothing happens. Sometimes, it will come on for a few seconds. I hear a faint crackling from the power supply and the standby light comes on, but it fades after a few seconds. If I try a bunch of times, I can occasionally get it to last a few minutes and even come out of standby and play a test sound for a secodn or so before clicking back to standby, then fading out entirely after a few minutes. I took it apart and saw no blown capacitors or fuses and nothing was scorched. Would I be correct to assume this is a bad power supply? Where would I get a replacement?
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post #13308 of 14118
12/5/12 at 4:33am
You could contact JBL. If you had the L8400P service manual and a volt/ohm meter, you could check each part. Unfortunately, with resistors or capacitors they do not always show any sign of distress such as a bulge in the electrolytic capacitor or burn marks.
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post #13309 of 14118
12/5/12 at 11:58am
Would a single corner placed PS1400 be able to properly pressurize a room of about 2280 cubic feet (about 19x15x8), particularly if it's crossed over at 80 Hz to a wall mounted front stage of PT800s and a PC600? I remember reading somewhere that two of the PS1400s were good in rooms of up to 3500 cubic feet.
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post #13310 of 14118
12/5/12 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_of_Sevens View Post

My l8400p is out again. After a mysteriously melted voice coil last year, now it won't stay on. When I flip the switch, sometimes nothing happens. Sometimes, it will come on for a few seconds. I hear a faint crackling from the power supply and the standby light comes on, but it fades after a few seconds. If I try a bunch of times, I can occasionally get it to last a few minutes and even come out of standby and play a test sound for a secodn or so before clicking back to standby, then fading out entirely after a few minutes. I took it apart and saw no blown capacitors or fuses and nothing was scorched. Would I be correct to assume this is a bad power supply? Where would I get a replacement?

It's a sign from above that you're supposed to upgrade to an HTPS400 biggrin.gif
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post #13311 of 14118
12/5/12 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Would a single corner placed PS1400 be able to properly pressurize a room of about 2280 cubic feet (about 19x15x8), particularly if it's crossed over at 80 Hz to a wall mounted front stage of PT800s and a PC600? I remember reading somewhere that two of the PS1400s were good in rooms of up to 3500 cubic feet.

Not the question you asked, but here's the answer anyway: The PS1400 is begging to have a PT800 docked to it, so you need two. There's a magical transformation that takes place when you do that.

But to answer your question, the PS1400 falls pretty short below 30Hz, so the more the better. My room is roughly 3500 cu ft and I feel that 2 still falls a little short. I use an HTPS400 to fill in the VLF and I wish I had 2 of those too. I also wouldn't choose to place a PS1400 in a corner, I always get a huge spike around 60Hz when I try that. But your room may be different. If PS stacks are not in your future, consider getting 2 subs instead of one PS1400.
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post #13312 of 14118
12/5/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Not the question you asked, but here's the answer anyway: The PS1400 is begging to have a PT800 docked to it, so you need two. There's a magical transformation that takes place when you do that.
But to answer your question, the PS1400 falls pretty short below 30Hz, so the more the better. My room is roughly 3500 cu ft and I feel that 2 still falls a little short. I use an HTPS400 to fill in the VLF and I wish I had 2 of those too. I also wouldn't choose to place a PS1400 in a corner, I always get a huge spike around 60Hz when I try that. But your room may be different. If PS stacks are not in your future, consider getting 2 subs instead of one PS1400.

Thanks, I've put in inquiry to JBL support about this.

Reason I was wondering is because I could actually do up a bedroom system by only buying a PC600 from Harman for $500 plus tax since I already have a third PS1400 and could come up with two PT800s by taking a pair out of my main 7.2 system (obviously turning it into a 5.2 instead). Then I'd already have the front stage and all I'd have to do is come up with something for a pair of surrounds for the BR system, like maybe a pair of Revel S12s I already have which I believe would work OK in that relatively narrow room.

FWIW, check out this quote regarding the PS1400 when corner placed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post


Hi guys,

This is the first time I've visited this thread. Kinda surprised since I am quite the JBL fan (and a custom dealer, in the interest of disclosure). I've particularly enjoyed your posts on the PT800s and PS1400.


I had the pleasure of meeting and talking with the product engineer for the Performance series and Project Array a few years back. I've recently also rekindled my interest in the PS1400, as I used them in a design I did this year in which I used the Synthesis S4VCs behind the screen.


I did a bit of new research with JBL about this sub, and learned a few things about it. You may already know that the driver is the same as in the Array 1400. Interestingly, the driver came from the pro side while the cabinet design came from consumer. For this reason, it was unfortunately destined from the start to be a marketing bastard child at the company.


The research also took me to the subject that you mention in your comment above. As you mention, the trend in subwoofer design these days is low extention. Curiously, this is where there is very little content in other than special musical recordings. There is very little content down there in film mixes. This low extention is magnified in our home-size rooms by room gain. Although a lot of folks love to feel that low end, it often is an acoustic byproduct rather than content. Accurate? You be the judge. But with 12dB of room gain below 35Hz or so, a lot of that lowest bass is really bloated unless absorbed (virtually impossible in small rooms) or corrected with EQ.


A paradox of most designs that go for the low extension is sound power in the not-so-low range of about 35Hz to 60Hz. This is where the big power in film mixes is located, not to mention kick bass, etc, in music. The PS1400 is specifically designed to have blistering power in this range...at the expense of low extension. The PS1400 rolls off about 12dB per octave below 35Hz specifically to compensate for room gain AND to retain the ability to deliver extreme power between 35 Hz and about 60Hz. The original THX Ultra sub specs required this roll-off for this reason. The newer THX Ultra2 specs changed this to be anechoically flat to 20Hz. Of course, the PS1400 never was submitted for THX certification. It would have conformed to Ultra specs, but not Ultra2 specs.


Near boundary placement of the PS1400, especially corner placement, engages boundary reinforcement which lifts the low end of to near flat at 20Hz without EQ. It gets a free pass to flat @ 20Hz without sacrificing mid-bass power where the mixed content really demands it. Presuming near boundary placement, seating placement, and room proportions are all in harmony, a good room correction utlility like Audyssey (expecially XT32 or the SubEQ) can render superbly smooth acoustic bass response with the PS1400. In the theater I mentioned, I accomplished the final calibration with Audyssey Pro. It sounds fantastic.


We only used two PS1400s, frankly because the shape of the room made it virtually impossible to add two more. Since the room is not a rectangle, we really couldn't go for Todd Welti's nominal four sub configuration.


Anyway, big PS1400 fan here, but not a fanboy. I don't regard any sub as perfect in all situations. The trick with subs is to utilize it properly; right sub choice for the room, application, design and installation/placment with the presumption of achieving reasonably verifiable performance. Put a PS1400 out in a room away from boundaries, and it will sound weak. Do it right, design well, and use good room correction, and it's fearsome.


At least that is my experience with the PS1400. Have you guys found the same or have you found a unique technique that works for you?


I do believe in the PS1400 enough that I scored a superb purchase opportunity of them from JBL and have a bunch available. I'm keeping a few for myself, though.
If anyone is looking, I might be able to provide some holiday happiness if that kind of thing is in your stocking this year.


Cheers
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post #13313 of 14118
12/6/12 at 8:15am
of those wit PS stacks, how close to the corner are you placing them? I've had mine about 4ft from the back wall and 3ft from the sides, looking at some of the gain comments on the PS1400 above wondering if I might be cheating myself out of some LF if they were designed to be closer to the back/corner.confused.gif
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post #13314 of 14118
12/6/12 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post

of those wit PS stacks, how close to the corner are you placing them? I've had mine about 4ft from the back wall and 3ft from the sides, looking at some of the gain comments on the PS1400 above wondering if I might be cheating myself out of some LF if they were designed to be closer to the back/corner.confused.gif

The fact the PS1400 is not a VLF sub, you are not going to get VLF. And placing main speakers/subs in corners will usually do more harm than good. The exception being if they are placed at 45* angles, which really requires quite a wide room, so they are still at the proper angle for the seats.
Generally, placing mains a min. of 4 ft from the back and a min. of 3 ft from the sides (as you have it) will provide a much better soundstage, both in depth and width, than if placed closer to the walls.
The PS stacks are really full range tower speakers, and much less a sub.
If you really think/want more LF, then add a third sub, preferable VLF, placed along a wall.
Edited by 4DHD - 12/6/12 at 8:42am
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post #13315 of 14118
12/6/12 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

The fact the PS1400 is not a VLF sub, you are not going to get VLF. And placing main speakers/subs in corners will usually do more harm than good. The exception being if they are placed at 45* angles, which really requires quite a wide room, so they are still at the proper angle for the seats.
Generally, placing mains a min. of 4 ft from the back and a min. of 3 ft from the sides (as you have it) will provide a much better soundstage, both in depth and width, than if placed closer to the walls.
The PS stacks are really full range tower speakers, and much less a sub.
If you really think/want more LF, then add a third sub, preferable VLF, placed along a wall.

I believe that in the quote about PS1400s being corner placed, they meant only a PS1400 by itself, not one with a PT800 stacked on top of it. That's the way I interpreted it anyway. Maybe the member who originally posted that can weigh in?
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post #13316 of 14118
12/6/12 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

I believe that in the quote about PS1400s being corner placed, they meant only a PS1400 by itself, not one with a PT800 stacked on top of it. That's the way I interpreted it anyway. Maybe the member who originally posted that can weigh in?

But corner loading of that particular sub is not going to produce VLF. It will get boundary reinforcement, but not to 20 htz.
And as rdg said, can produce a bad spike.
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post #13317 of 14118
12/6/12 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post

of those wit PS stacks, how close to the corner are you placing them? I've had mine about 4ft from the back wall and 3ft from the sides, looking at some of the gain comments on the PS1400 above wondering if I might be cheating myself out of some LF if they were designed to be closer to the back/corner.confused.gif

I think your placement is probably ideal for flat response, imaging and the like. Keep in mind that the stack is more than a woofer, and there will be trade-offs in imaging and soundstage in order to gain a bump in LF response. IMHO, EQ is the best approach for gaining LF response, not placement. (keeping in mind this is a tower, not a sub) But by all means you should endeavor to experiment.
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post #13318 of 14118
12/6/12 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

I believe that in the quote about PS1400s being corner placed, they meant only a PS1400 by itself, not one with a PT800 stacked on top of it. That's the way I interpreted it anyway. Maybe the member who originally posted that can weigh in?

Ha, I happened to check on this thread on a lark, and see a comment.

As with all discussions, preparations, "designs," and execution in the realm of LF response in small room acoustics, I cannot emphasize enough my preface in that post that room dimensions/proportions/shape, and listening location(s) will vastly effect the results at various sub locations.

Regarding reaching 20Hz via room gain via boundary placement, I'll concede that it is not +/-0dB, but I've installed/calibrated systems in rooms with PS1400s as subs where, after xt32 (usually Audyssey Pro) calibration, we are certainly down no more than 3dB or so at 20Hz. I'm in the middle of doing a system wtih a new Onkyo 5509 and PS1400s in the room. We are down about 3 or 4dB at 20Hz, but that is a pretty steep drop from about 24Hz. To me that is essentially acoustically flat to 20Hz.

Regarding "bad spikes," that takes a bit of defining and analysis. The bandwidth and amplitude and the ability or lack thereof to perform meaningful EQ would be necessary. A single high energy area that is not terribly high in amplitude is easily electronically corrected. The resolution of xt32 is pretty darn good, even as the consumer version. When I do a 1/12th octave resolution analysis with an RTA before the calibration, what I don't want to see are two adjacent big (>1/3 octave, >8dB) peaks...because those are not two spikes, but invariably a null between that will not go completely away with any EQ. IF placement of a PS1400 or any sub results in that response, then that is a bad location and you have to find a different location that provides better response (even if just to a location where the amplitude of those peaks lowers closer to reasonable levels...which effectively means you're moving out of the area of the null).

I would regard a pre-calibration response that had a big 8dB room gain/boundary gain spike between 20Hz and 35Hz "bad," and having the potential to be problematic to correct in that location. If it is less than 6dB and the rest of the LF range varies reasonably (+/- 4dB or so), I consider that managable and having the potential of being very good after calibration.

I think everyone who busies themselves with this regularly develops an approach, interpretation of analysis, and execution protocol that results in consistent results in various situations and environments. Those may not sound or, in my case, even be described in totally accurate terminology. redface.gif For that I apologize. Often maddening, but It's a fun chase, huh? smile.gif

FWIW, I still have PS1400s available very attractively. The PR-SC5509 is also now available attractively.

If I miss you here, everybody have a great Christmas/holiday season. smile.gif
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post #13319 of 14118
12/6/12 at 11:03am
I have mine in an equilateral triangle with my listening position with two HTPS400 stacks in the corners. Works great.

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post #13320 of 14118
12/6/12 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ-Rhino View Post

I have mine in an equilateral triangle with my listening position with two HTPS400 stacks in the corners. Works great.

Are those bass traps behind the HTPS400s or do you have them bolted down so they don't walk around the room? wink.gif
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