The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 445

If what is said in my recent quote of Cam Man in post # 13312 is in fact true, then it can get to 20 Hz, and Eq can help deal with any spike.

However, upon further reflection, if I'm going to wall mount the front stage of the PC600 and a pair of PT800s anyway, then the sub or subs I use don't necessarily have to be a PS1400. It finally hit me that I can get any sub or subs in that case, such as the sealed Rhythmic servos for example. I could even get Salk to custom make a Rhythmic cabinet to match the finish of the PT800s/PC600.

Has anyone actually wall-mounted their PC600 and PT800s as mains? If so, does the boundary reinforcement really extend their -3 db to a legitimate 80 Hz?

Wall mounting will always provide a 3db gain. But with stacked units the XO is @ 130, not 80. So it makes no difference the PT800s are -6db @ 80.
One thing about wall mounting, you will lose depth of soundstage. Having the stacks out 4 ft produces a deep soundstage.

Right, I'm very well aware of that as I already have a PT800/PS1400 stack as the main L/R in the main system. I've never tried them as wall-mounted L/R mains though, and I was asking because I could actually set up a secondary system in the bedroom by simply going from 7.2 to 5.2 in the main system so I can rob a pair of PT800s from it and buying another PC600 from Harman Direct to have the front stage already completed. Unfortunately, the PT800/PS1400 stacks for the main L/R are not viable in the BR.

I've wall mounted both my custom L212s and PT800s and I had a good wide soundstage, but the depth was certainly not there. But for a bedroom system, most certainly be good enough.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking too, especially since the room really isn't all that big, and the fact that the main listening positions would be within like 7 to 8 feet or so, give or take a little either way.

EQ can used to boost the response below 30Hz, however I strongly advise against it. EQ is best used to attenuate peaks in the bass octaves. Boosting levels below the unit's tuning is asking for trouble in the form of dead drivers and/or dead amps. Likewise, issues with port chuffing and the like are expected. Best to accept the PS1400's tuning as it is, if you want more VLF out of it build a bigger box. The LE14H-3 is certainly capable of 20Hz, but not (safely) in this box.

^^^^^ +1

Most certainly the box volume of the PS1400 is a compromise as so not to look overly large when the PT800s are mounted. I don't remember the volume of that box, put placing the LE14H-3 in a box around 4^3 would be a big improvement to its low end.

Hi folks! I'm going to upgrade my front speakers soon and wanted some advice, If possible. I want to upgrade my 15 year old Sony SS-MB215's (not terribly efficient, not terribly deep bass, smallish tweeters and mid-range, but sounded good in my apartment 15 years ago), which I've used as left and right channels. The area we watch TV and movies in is around 20' x 15' of our finished basement living room (dry wall, carpeting, drop ceiling). I use a Denon AVR 790 as our HT receiver. Not a lot of power (90 watts at 8 ohms per channel) compared to other receivers, but it upscales video really well and makes nice noises for a mid-level HTR. I'm currently using a pair of good Polk bookshelf speakers as surrounds, with no rear channels and no sub. My center is a BIC America PL-26, bought to replace an older, much smaller Polk CS series. I'm enjoying the PL-26 and, though it isn't broken in yet, I really like the unit as a center channel.

I've considered BIC PL-89s to match the center I have. I know the prevailing wisdom is to get left and rights to match the center, but the 89s have no dedicated midrange driver. I've read everything I could find regarding JBL's ES90BK. If someone has experience with this speaker, could you please tell me about it (pros, cons, impressions, etc.). There are at least a couple web sites (JR and Adorama, in particular) that have these for $298 each, shipped. Seems like a very good deal on what looks like a whole lotta speaker. I've been to JBL's web site and I can't find any place in the St. Louis, Mo. area that sells them. So, I really need some feedback (bad pun for a speaker forum, I guess... Ha!) to help me decide what I'm going to try to convince the wife to get me for Christmas.

Thanks in advance,

John

RD is exactly right to say boosting below the 60Hz range is big trouble (in small room acoustic environments). In fact, I don't know of any situation where LF EQ is not strictly a reduction of areas of higher energy.

What are your guys' opinions about the issue of low extension verses high SPL output in the 35Hz to roughly 70Hz range? Typically, the size subs we live with at home are not capable of both with accuracy and low distortion. Has design technology changed that? The Synthesis S1S-EX is one that can do both very well, but it's huge as it's design basically comes from the pro cineama line.

You really should be looking for a match between center and mains, there's no getting around that requirement.
Speaking of the ES90, here's a great center match for them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/190766447819?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The ES90 is well-liked and that is a superb value at $300.

Obviously the box is as important as the driver, and damn few subs can accurately fill that need. The JBL LE14H and the 2245/2242 18" drivers are among the few drivers capable of doing so in the right box. I don't see it as necessarily a choice between high mid-bass SPL and VLF extension, but its a rare combination. Also is one of the reasons why the truly obsessed will opt for separate mid-bass and VLF subs. I will say this: once you've heard a truly accurate LF setup, you'll never accept anything else.

Got word back on my sub. Apparently, the amp was overheating and it killed a couple transistors and capacitors. These are not the sort of capacitors you can get at Radio Shack. Any good options besides buying from JBL?

Try Parts Express.

It would be a good value, if those two web sites had them in stock (...which I found out earlier they didn't). Ha! May not be back in stock until 2-15-13.

I know I've heard it's best to buy matched fronts and center channels. But a requirement? All I'm even remotely concerned about is whether the fronts I'm going to get have tight bass, good but not overpowering midrange, and clear high frequency sound. The JBLs I spoke of were reviewed well on Amazon and a couple other sites, but I can't listen to them and hoped someone here may have and can give me their impression.

Parts Express and OAudio have good plate amps. The better ones have a built in parametric equalizer. For your subwoofer, it would likely run between $220-350. You are better off finding out what JBL would charge. I used a 500w Parts Express BASH plate amp to replace a amp on my 9 year old JBL subwoofer 3 years ago. The cutting and pasting to get it to fit can be inconvenient. The difficulty with old amps is that if a few parts have failed and get repaired, a few additional parts may fail within a relatively short amount of time.

I was certainly thinking of that as I posed that question. That would be a cool system modification...and probably not technically difficult. Is it any more than daisy chaining with the LFE feed to the VLF sub which would be low-passed to splice with the mid-bass sub(s)? More challenging might be finding room for another large box and in a location for the best response in that band in what is probably already crowded for a lot of us...and the additional expense.

You always need to at least stay in the same brand, same type.
I'll give you an example of using two completely different JBLs that were NO match: A pair of L55 (14" woof+soft dome tweet) paired with a pair of L212 (Al tweet, 4" mid, 8 mid-bass). And the XOs were not even close.

The system I use now is the much newer PT800 and custom L212. Both are 3-ways, in boxes near the same size, with their XOs being quite close. And the same size drivers, within an inch. Now that the custom L212s have a Ti tweet, there is not enough difference to tell them apart in the same system.
I use the L212 as the L/R and the PT800s for center, surrounds. (the mirror imaged L212s produce a better stereo soundstage)
So it breaks down to combining speakers of the same brand and just as important, same type.

So if you really like the Bic center, then get Bic mains of the same type. Otherwise start from scratch and go with LCRs of the same brand, series, or at least same type.

Frankly you're better off with no center than to have an unmatched center. A center is not an absolute requirement, and with decent full-range towers you can easily do without.

I really do appreciate you, and RDGrimes, responding to my post, but I think the point may have been missed. I was simply asking for opinions and experience regarding the ES90, not a lecture in choosing center channel speakers or whether I need one at all.

Good day, and Merry Christmas.

I don't need a whole new amp. I just need to unsolder and replace a few transistors and capacitors.

And you mentioned all the speakers you already have and thinking of getting a pair if Bic speakers to match the center.
Then you jump to JBL ES series. So it would seem to the both of us that you DO want to match your center to new towers.
And we're telling you not to mix ES with the Bic. So you go with one or the other.
The ES is just run of the mill JBL, I've heard them and imo, not as good as the L890s.

Edit: I just looked at the Bic PL series. They are horn loaded, as you know. You certainly do not want to use the ES series with those. Seems to me you want to go with the ES cos they are being sold for cheap. Your Bic center is new, stay with the Bic.
Edited by 4DHD - 12/8/12 at 10:19am

Parts Express is still your first stop. But if you Google the part numbers you should get plenty of hits on elect supply houses. It's just a matter of finding a source that will sell you 2 instead of 2000.

You can purchase the capacitors, etc. individually at PE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_of_Sevens View Post

I don't need a whole new amp. I just need to unsolder and replace a few transistors and capacitors.

Parts Express is still your first stop. But if you Google the part numbers you should get plenty of hits on elect supply houses. It's just a matter of finding a source that will sell you 2 instead of 2000.


I assume that you have the JBL L8400P service manual that gives the circuit diagram, a suitable volt/ohm meter, and solder/desolder equipment.


Murrel (see elsewhere in this forum) gave instructions on how to order and replace the capacitors in the MFW-15 subwoofer amplifiers that had a very high failure rate due to defective parts. Unfortunately, 1-2 years after some of the individuals made the repairs, their amps are now failing again because other parts are failing.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1250559/new-mfw-15-amps-may-2010-pics

Partly the reason for using an AT screen. I have a 5749 behind mine. It's roughly equivalent to 2 x S1S.

Does anyone know how I can replace my broken PCB boards (Crossover) on a JBL SP6C and SP8C? I was able to find some for cheap but one/two of each came with a broken board. (16 speakers total) I am handy with wiring and soldering, so If I can do it myself I will. If I can order them from someone or JBL for a reasonable price I can do that too.

Thanks for any help.

In JBL land, there are six paths you can go by.

HTPS400
PS1400
LSR6332
1500 Array
S2S
S1S-EX (or 4645C from the pro cinema line, plus there are some older 18" cinema units around, too)

I have all of these except the LSR6332 and 1500 Array. They simply cost too much new, and I cannot find a super deal used. Of the two, I'd take the LSR first.

My Performance Series utilizes four PS1400s stacked with PT800s running full range down to 40 Hz, plus four HTPS400s running below 40 Hz. Even though the HTPS400s are 12" drivers, the rigid anodized cones are good to low 20 Hz in those sealed cabinets. The 1000W amps help. Notice the limited frequency range I'm asking the HTPS400s to handle.

I've got two S1S-EX and two 4645C units in my HT, and that means incredible power, accuracy, low distortion, and control. They're handling from about 80 Hz on down.


In both the S1S-EX and HTPS400 instances, none of the individual units are working all that hard, but calibrated and properly placed, the synergy is incredible. The bass is very well distributed around the room, and it's in phase, coherent, and profound. One sub couldn't really accomplish anything close to that, though one could get one big sub to do a lot of booming by itself it that 's what someone wanted. Notice the limited frequency range I'm asking these subs to handle.


I've got a pair of S2S subs supporting my K2 S9900 pair below 50 Hz, and a pair of PS1400s working the ULF duties with a of a pair of actively bi-amped XPL200As below 60 Hz. Notice the limited frequency range I'm asking it to handle.


Also, right now Harmansuaio.com has some old S3S subs for silly low prices. That's a 12" driver in a ported box. Bring your own amp, just like all Synthesis® subs. The LE120H-1 is a very capable LF driver, and I've got a pair of those supporting an S/2600 stereo pair below 60 Hz. Notice the limited frequency range I'm asking it to handle.


I guess the message is this: the less you ask a LF driver to do, the more it can do for you.

Hey everyone, we've got a lucky man who purchased a set of Arrays: 1400s, 880, and 800s. Here's his post about it.

Anyone got some advice?

Of course, I'd recommend ATI amps, but I'm not sure they sell in Europe. Maybe the Outlaw amps sell there? They're made by ATI.

Javier

http://outlawaudio.com/products/amps.html

http://ati-amp.com/home.php

I use a pair of ATI 2003 amps to power my K2 S9900s, and they do a remarkable job. The K2s are more efficient than the 1400 Arrays, but the ATI amps are unbelievably robust.

Some folks like Parasound Halo amps with higher end JBLs. I've got the Parasound P7 analog preamp paired with the ATIs, but couldn't justify the Parasound amplifier's higher cost over the ATI.

On another note, some guys want McIntosh amps with their big JBLs, but Javier isn't looking to spend a fortune on amps at this time. Plus, I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of the big Macs.

Not a hater, just not a lover, which is surprising given my virtual lust of the stuff when I was a teenager.

I don't know how his Adcom preforms in bi-amp mode, but he could use one amp to power the fronts and another for the rest. So, Adcom -> biamp fronts -> new amp for the rest. Any of these multichannel amps will offer more power per channel when fewer channels are loaded. Bi-amping fronts with the Adcom then also using the other Adcom channels will probably defeat any gains from the b-amp. But its also true that simply using only 2 channels in the Adcom should offer a robust gain in WPC.