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The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 449

post #13441 of 14063
1/20/13 at 1:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrickb View Post

If I can't find one in decent shape, what is the next best choice? Not being able to listen to my choices in a store makes this a lot harder. Even the newer models aren't available in a B&M here (that I've found)

I suppose you could go with the logical choice the ES25C. Since it will match your ES80's biggrin.gif
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post #13442 of 14063
1/20/13 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOM85 View Post

I suppose you could go with the logical choice the ES25C. Since it will match your ES80's biggrin.gif

Lol. That would seem logical, except no one has recommended it (until now). smile.gif
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post #13443 of 14063
1/20/13 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrickb View Post

Lol. That would seem logical, except no one has recommended it (until now). smile.gif
That is b/c most people would just go with the center from the same series as their mains.
That said, in the case of the Studio L series, which has two center models most prefer the LC2 over the LC1.
So in that case there is some room for discussion.
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post #13444 of 14063
1/20/13 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

There's been some "heritage" discussion in a couple of other threads, so I hinted I would make a comment here to try to tie a few things together.

JBL currently has a very full line of loudspeakers which includes these floor standers:

Everest II DD67000*
Everest II DD66000**
Everest II DD65000**
K2 S99000*
S4700*
S3900*
1400 Array*
1000 Array*
LS80*
LS60*
(New) Studio 590***
(New) Studio 580***
(New) Studio 570***
L890***
L880***
(Old) Studio 190***
(Old) Studio 180***
ES90***
ES80***
CST56***

* JBLSynthesis® dealers
** JBL Synthesis® dealers until model is sold out
*** JBL Consumer Authorized Dealers

That's a range of floor standing loudspeakers from under $300 to over $30,000 each--twice that for a pair. Besides the JBL logo, what do they have in common?

For starters, everything from the Studio 570 up in the list is horn-based. All the rest are direct radiator models, but they all have at least one waveguide in them, too. So a common element is that directivity and dispersion are controlled in all of them, at least at the HF level.

Could this be because of a uniform corporate design imperative? Could it be due to a consistent design philosophy evolved by a single designer or group of designers? Could it be that one individual oversees all development? Well, there's a qualified "Yes" to all of those.

There's a single and more coherent thread in JBL's recent offerings, which according to your preferences could be a good or bad thing. If the result is improvement of sonic performance up and down the line, then I'd say it's good. If you don't like the evolving JBL "signature," then it might be bad.

I've got a lot more to say about this, but not the time right now. (Talk amongst yourselves.)

This leaves me feeling like I have old outdated gear. frown.gif It's a good thing I still like it. biggrin.gif
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post #13445 of 14063
1/20/13 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOM85 View Post

Have you heard the new Studio 5 Series speakers?
Most people on here would say the EC35 is the best choice...


I to would like to know if anyone here has had a chance to audition the new JBL Studio 590s or 580s.
I really like there design , but have yet to find any retailers who handle them for me to listen to them.
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post #13446 of 14063
1/20/13 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

There's been some "heritage" discussion in a couple of other threads, so I hinted I would make a comment here to try to tie a few things together.

JBL currently has a very full line of loudspeakers which includes these floor standers:



I've got a lot more to say about this, but not the time right now. (Talk amongst yourselves.)

I for one would like to hear more from you about this. Technology is changing fast. The JBL heritage has always been high quality, so what is your gut feeling about the future?
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post #13447 of 14063
1/20/13 at 6:46pm
I have 6 S38ii in my theater.

I wonder how they stack up against today's competition?
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post #13448 of 14063
1/20/13 at 7:15pm
Does anyone know which JBL speaker would be comparable to the Infinity P163? I'm thinking of buying the P163's for my 3 fronts, and was wondering if JBL had something better for about the same price. Thanks.
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post #13449 of 14063
1/20/13 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Does anyone know which JBL speaker would be comparable to the Infinity P163? I'm thinking of buying the P163's for my 3 fronts, and was wondering if JBL had something better for about the same price. Thanks.

Pretty much any of the 6.5" 2-way models will be similar. That includes the models with a ultra-tweeter (quasi-3-way). The L820 might be a better choice.
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post #13450 of 14063
1/20/13 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

This leaves me feeling like I have old outdated gear. frown.gif It's a good thing I still like it. biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by gferrell View Post

I for one would like to hear more from you about this. Technology is changing fast. The JBL heritage has always been high quality, so what is your gut feeling about the future?

Hey Mark, just remember, outdated does not mean outmoded. It's inevitable that everything we buy is destined to be outdated and sooner rather than later. Outmoded is another matter, and there are scores of instances of JBL products that still hold their own today at their particular market segments. Of course, there's a lot of JBL gear that's both outdated AND outmoded, but there are some guys who'll protest to the death that their favorite JBL is neither outdated nor outmoded!! We probably all have a JBL line or two in mind that was outdated and outmoded the day it was released, too. (Radiance Series, anyone?)

In my opinion, over the last decade, JBL has been in a second Golden Age, and I see no end in sight.

Even in the Dark Years, there were beacons of light that showed JBL was undeniably alive, just lost somewhere in the wilderness. The bright light that one could follow had two distinguishing features: three- or four-way direct radiator towers and Ti tweeters (or Ti laminate in the entry level consumer stuff). Sure, there was the occasional weird horn-based unit and the elusive TOTL horn-based Everests and K2s and Synthesis®, but the bulwark of the line was multiple direct radiators, topped by the amazing 250Ti.

The influence of Ti trickled down to the midrange driver (XPL and TiK Series) and then the midbass driver (Performance Series) as well. There was even a potential XPL 250 that never came to fruition but lived in a sense in the PT800/PS1400 stack of the Performance Series.

Then something weird happened: JBL's stablemate Revel went all Ti (woofer, midbass, mid) except for the Be tweeter, and JBL moved away from direct radiator towers.
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post #13451 of 14063
1/20/13 at 9:07pm
The Performance Series was the most Ti-centric design ever from JBL. It lives on in the Synthesis Four system, but realistically, the original Performance Series was a brilliant execution of what I like to call "All Ti, all the time." In fact I loved it so much, a friend and I created the PT250, a classic 250 cabinet with a Ti tweeter, midrange and mid bass, along with JBL's 14 inch LE14H-3 woofer. It's a spectacular sounding system. Of course, it's set up as an active four-way quad-amp loudspeaker so it should.

At the time of the Performance Series, you'd be hard pressed to find any JBL floor standing speaker that wasn't a direct radiator top to bottom, though EOS waveguides--the world's smallest horns--were becoming common.

Then Revel got the Ti franchise at Harman and things changed. There were a few low-end direct radiator towers from the Balboa, (old) Studio, and Cinema Series stuff, but the last good example, still for sale, is the Studio L (now usually just "L") represented by the L890 and L880, along with their Mylar UHF ribbons.

Starting with the Project Array Series (now Array Series) and its sideways horn, JBL began a movement from the top down to make horns de riguer in its entire consumer product line. It currently descends from the TOTL Everest II all the way to the new Studio 570. Only the seven "bottom" models are not horn-based at this point, and five of the seven are relatively old models.
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post #13452 of 14063
1/20/13 at 9:23pm
While I am a huge fan of direct radiator systems and have a historical bias against horns, I have to say my resistance has been neutralized. I still have no interest in the beamy, honking horns of the JBL past, even those revered specimens that would invite physical attacks were I to name the chief offenders.

Nonetheless, JBL's advancing horn sophistication--design, radii, composition, cabinet integration, compression driver innovation and materials--has truly ushered in an era of amazing trickle down benefits. JBL's horn technology development is outpacing virtually all direct radiator advancements at this time.

In the past, I considered some of JBL's mock horn designs to be passable and sometimes even better than their true horn designs because they were less shrill and beamy. So the HLS and SVA horns would impress me because they didn't offend my ears, but truth be told, they lacked the dynamics and impact of true horns backed by compression drivers. Even the K2 S9800 was too shrill and edgy for me. Then came the Project Array.
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post #13453 of 14063
1/20/13 at 9:27pm
I think I found an EC35 for $70 (local) to run with the ES80 fronts. Is that a bargain for a used center, which they claim to be hardly used and in the original box?
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post #13454 of 14063
1/20/13 at 9:41pm
For me, JBL's Project Array turned horns on their head, both literally and figuratively.

The visual, literally, was taking a horn that looked like it should go horizontal and making it weirdly vertical. Awkward looking to say the least, and still a point of some dissent today.

The aural, figuratively, was breaking a paradigm that forced me to look at a horn that confused me enough visually that I could open my ears while my eyes were in disarray. (Get it, that's a pun: "In dis array.") And what I heard was anything but a beamy, honking, shrill, skull-piercing horn. With my eyes closed, it was simply beautiful.

So my last three acquisitions have all been horn-based systems:
  • Synthesis® One Array
  • K2 S9900
  • A recent acquisition

In fact, the only way I could acquire a superior JBL direct radiator product in the past ten years was to custom design it with a savvy friend.
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post #13455 of 14063
1/20/13 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by garrickb View Post

I think I found an EC35 for $70 (local) to run with the ES80 fronts. Is that a bargain for a used center, which they claim to be hardly used and in the original box?

Why don't you already have it? Buy it!
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post #13456 of 14063
1/20/13 at 9:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

  • A recent acquisition

biggrin.gif
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post #13457 of 14063
1/21/13 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Why don't you already have it? Buy it!

+1
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post #13458 of 14063
1/21/13 at 12:22pm
For those of you on Face Book. I sent an old picture of my fronts to JBL and they posted it. A few people seemed to like it. It's down a little with the orange wall.

Picture
Edited by mikeronesia - 1/21/13 at 12:30pm
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post #13459 of 14063
1/21/13 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

For those of you on Face Book. I sent an old picture of my fronts to JBL and they posted it. A few people seemed to like it. It's down a little with the orange wall.

Picture

They shoulda been naked. cool.gif
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post #13460 of 14063
1/21/13 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

For those of you on Face Book. I sent an old picture of my fronts to JBL and they posted it. A few people seemed to like it. It's down a little with the orange wall.

Picture

Those JBLs are a thing of beauty!
Love all the Emotiva gear also!!
Very Jealous! cool.gif
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post #13461 of 14063
1/21/13 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

They shoulda been naked. cool.gif

I almost gave them a naked shot. I liked this one because of the "Serenity" on the screen, which is how they make me feel and it had the 2 extra subs in the shot.
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post #13462 of 14063
1/21/13 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

I almost gave them a naked shot. I liked this one because of the "Serenity" on the screen, which is how they make me feel and it had the 2 extra subs in the shot.


Wow -- I can almost hear them from here! One of the most under-appreciated line of speakers, ever.
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post #13463 of 14063
1/21/13 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeronesia View Post

For those of you on Face Book. I sent an old picture of my fronts to JBL and they posted it. A few people seemed to like it. It's down a little with the orange wall.

Picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by howaboutthat41 View Post

Wow -- I can almost hear them from here! One of the most under-appreciated line of speakers, ever.

That's a great shot, Mark, and a great looking lineup.

As for under appreciated, I was in Northridge CA at JBL today to pick something up and spoke briefly with the Performance Series designer. "More linear and a far better value" is as exact a quote as I can remember when I asked about the Performance Series compared to the Revel Ultima2 Series. Of course, the Ultima2's designer was nowhere around. However, I'd have to agree with that assessment.
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post #13464 of 14063
1/21/13 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post



As for under appreciated, I was in Northridge CA at JBL today to pick something up
is there a timeframe for posting on this recent acq?

spoke briefly with the Performance Series designer. "More linear and a far better value" is as exact a quote as I can remember when I asked about the Performance Series compared to the Revel Ultima2 Series. Of course, the Ultima2's designer was nowhere around. However, I'd have to agree with that assessment.
Gotta pin this
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post #13465 of 14063
1/21/13 at 8:59pm
Thanks Doug. It was only possible with the help of you, Randy, other AVS members, a big chunk of change and much patience. All good fun with an understanding partner. wink.gif
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post #13466 of 14063
1/21/13 at 11:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajl1 View Post

is there a timeframe for posting on this recent acq?



Gotta pin this

Timeframe? Yes, there's a timeframe, but it likely will require a trip to my house. tongue.gif

You know I like the Ultima2 Salon a lot, but mostly because it's the next step beyond the PT800/PS1400 stack. When I heard them in the same large room with the Everest II and 1400 Array, the Salons were the clear winner to me, even accepting the fact that the Everests were not at their best that day. However, you know the story, when I cajoled the dealer into hooking them up, the K2 S9900s lit up the room with dynamics and impact that the Salons couldn't match.

K2s in the house; Salons not. (In fact, I'd like to get the Salons and the "PT250"s in the same room just to see if the 14" woofer brings something to the party that three 8" drivers cannot.)

You also know the Performance Series is no match for the K2s when it comes to efficiency, dynamics, and impact, but they still have an ethereal presence and purity of sound that's hard to beat. Plus they can kick out the jams and provide a compelling surround experience, all at an astounding price point. Since the performance Series may be the last high end full direct radiator speaker from JBL, it certainly provided a wonderful swan song. Despite a few marketing compromises in the final product, the designer is justifiably proud of the result.
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post #13467 of 14063
1/22/13 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

I was in Northridge CA at JBL today to pick something up and spoke briefly with the Performance Series designer. "More linear and a far better value" is as exact a quote as I can remember when I asked about the Performance Series compared to the Revel Ultima2 Series. Of course, the Ultima2's designer was nowhere around. However, I'd have to agree with that assessment.

Just to be clear, when he said "Performance Series", did he mean the PT800/PS1400/PC600?
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post #13468 of 14063
1/22/13 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Just to be clear, when he said "Performance Series", did he mean the PT800/PS1400/PC600?

Those three models ARE the PS. Any other models put under the PS flag years later was just more marketing BS.
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post #13469 of 14063
1/22/13 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Those three models ARE the PS. Any other models put under the PS flag years later was just more marketing BS.

Yeah, I know, which is exactly why I was asking for clarification
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post #13470 of 14063
1/22/13 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Just to be clear, when he said "Performance Series", did he mean the PT800/PS1400/PC600?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Those three models ARE the PS. Any other models put under the PS flag years later was just more marketing BS.

I would add the HTPS400 to that list. But yes, that's what we were talking about, the original design, not all the stuff thrown in later.
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