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The OFFICIAL JBL Owners Thread - Page 102

post #3031 of 14065
7/6/08 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

Thanks for you links, filecat. I was unable to get the manuals links to work, but I did find the AudioHeritage site to be helpful.

That's not that unusual. They worked yesterday and this morning, but sometimes the site just goes down. Harman will get it back up after the holiday weekend when dealers, service centers, and customers start complaining that the Tech Manuals are off line.

Slightly OT, but I'm amazed that Harman/JBL keeps all this stuff up. It's been a saving grace for me time and time again.

Finally, my moniker over at Audioheritage is Titanium Dome, so anything over there you might have seen by that member was actually more filecat13.
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post #3032 of 14065
7/6/08 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

If anyone is interested, I just saw 3 auctions for the Performance Series.
Two of them are for a full 5.2 system, the auctions seem to be the same.
The third is for a pair of PT800s only.

That offer on the pair is a good price, less than $400 each. If someone here were to jump on them, just remember that these need a subwoofer and a receiver or pre/pro with bass management to send everything below 80Hz to the sub.
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post #3033 of 14065
7/6/08 at 6:28pm
I just purchased a pair of PT800s with a PC600 and love their clear, detailed sound. Unfortunately, I do not have the wall or floor space to use 800s as surrounds. Any suggestions? Can I get by with 4 L820s?
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post #3034 of 14065
7/6/08 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Finally, my moniker over at Audioheritage is Titanium Dome, so anything over there you might have seen by that member was actually more filecat13.

I bow to much JBL wisdom and experience. Thanks much for your input, TD/FC13! I, too, liked the posts I read by (I now know you) Titanium Dome over there.
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post #3035 of 14065
7/6/08 at 7:07pm
can someone with the CST55 floorstanding speakers give me the exact height on these? It says 46in on the JBL website, but other sites have it listed at 36.5in. Also for those who have these, how do you like them, because these are 2-way how do the mids sound on these sets? is it lacking?


thanks guys
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post #3036 of 14065
7/6/08 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottd327 View Post

I just purchased a pair of PT800s with a PC600 and love their clear, detailed sound. Unfortunately, I do not have the wall or floor space to use 800s as surrounds. Any suggestions? Can I get by with 4 L820s?

Congratulations on your purchase. I'm sure you're grinning ear to ear.

Using L820s for surrounds will no doubt work, especially for HT. MC music might be less successful. If you carefully calibrate sound levels, you should get close. I'd recommend using an SPL meter to be sure the fronts are level-matched to the sides and rears.

Will you be wall mounting the L820s? If so, then unless you have a serious height restriction, I think you should be able to get PT800s into the same space. PT800s are two full inches less wide (narrower) and only one inch thicker (deeper) than L820s. The only dimension where the PT800 is noticeably larger is in height--almost twice as high as an L820.

Of course the "fourth dimension," cost (or the flatness of your wallet after purchase), favors the L820 by many dollars.
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post #3037 of 14065
7/7/08 at 6:10am
A wall plate shouldn't be too thick. But what you can do is what i did with my old speakers before I got my L's. I used in wall speaker cable and ran it to the surround locations. I then drilled a hole int he wall to fish the speaker cable out through. I then used those wall grommets that are for coax TV cable. The kind your cable company or satellite installer uses to pass coax cable through the wall. Makes for a very nice and clean installation. Home Depot or the like should have them. Mine had them in both white and black.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Franke46 View Post

Hello,

I finally got around hiding the wiring of my L820 surrounds. Until now they had visible wires which made me cringe every time I saw them.

Fortunately a previous owner of my house had gone through the trouble of wiring a somewhat similar path, except he wired to the very top of the 8ft wall; the L820's are about 2 1/2ft below. At the front (by the screen) the wires were left also at the very top, so I will have to wire drops on both sides, but that's still easier than doing the whole thing.

The bad news is that he/she used 18-gauge wire. Will I be committing sonic suicide by using this existing wiring and just do the missing pieces on both sides with 16ga? I would say the part I will reuse is about 18ft long, the new piece another 18ft. Each side.

The other issue I'm facing is that the OEM mounts are so flush that I don't see how an outlet would fit behind them. I'm leaning towards just having the wire come out of the wall and seal with caulk around it. What do you think? What kind of outlet/plate cover have you used for your L820s?

Thanks in advance

Franke46
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post #3038 of 14065
7/7/08 at 8:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

It never occured to me that "exactly what you wanted" included not hearing speakers before buying them.

rdgrimes would be doing nothing different than if he bought ID only speakers.
Most of us have never heard any ID brands, so if we did order any, it would be the same thing.

As for myself, I bought 5 PT800s w/o auditioning them first. But the big difference (for me) between buying JBLs off the net and any ID brand is I'm familiar with JBL sound, whereas I have no idea how any ID brand sounds.

An added bonus, in my case, is the PT800s, are by far, the closest to my 30 year old L212s in design.

Are there ID brands that are better than JBLs? Don't know, but being the speakers I have don't leave me wanting, then there would be no reason for ordering ID speakers, and then probably sending them back, even for free shipping.
I do know there aren't any brands, that I've audtioned in stores, I like better, although, there are 3 brands I've heard I'd like to have, if I had the additional space to set them up, those being Infinity Prelude MTS, VA Beethovens, and James.
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post #3039 of 14065
7/7/08 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

You're not disappointing me. But it might have dawned on you that I was trying to help you. It never occured to me that "exactly what you wanted" included not hearing speakers before buying them. My bad. But I'm sure you've made a well considered and researched decision.

You might wish to consider the rather obvious fact that when someone posts in a JBL thread asking for knowledge of JBL speakers, he's probably not needing to hear about other branded speakers or how JBL is inferior to speaker x, y, z. So I really didn't find much in your posts that was on topic. Thanks for your time.
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post #3040 of 14065
7/7/08 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

... But the big difference (for me) between buying JBLs off the net and any ID brand is I'm familiar with JBL sound, whereas I have no idea how any ID brand sounds...


Gotta agree with you on that; however I was really surprised by the ID brand sound I got recently ( 03 SCB-01, from SVS). Matter of fact, it was a "go-go" situation pricewise talking, so I took the plunge and - much to my surprise - the ID's performed far better than my Studio S38II front array, though. Bottom line: sometimes life gives you sweet surprises you'd not ever expect to...

Regards, Chuck
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post #3041 of 14065
7/7/08 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Gotta agree with you on that; however I was really surprised by the ID brand sound I got recently ( 03 SCB-01, from SVS). Matter of fact, it was a "go-go" situation pricewise talking, so I took the plunge and - much to my surprise - the ID's performed far better than my Studio S38II front array, though. Bottom line: sometimes life gives you sweet surprises you'd not ever expect to...

Regards, Chuck

The fact that you ordered ID speakers would suggest that the Studio speakers you had left you wanting for something more.
Whereas, there were many, many years that I never heard a set of JBLs, or any other brand, that I thought were better than what I already had (not counting the 250Ti).
It wasn't until I was setting up a HT, using two entirely different systems to create 5 channels, that I knew I needed to move on. And when I first read a review of the Performance Series, 6 years ago, I knew I needed to do an audition.
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post #3042 of 14065
7/7/08 at 10:04am
4DHD,

honestly, I was not looking for something else. Oh, BTW, I did not ordered the SVS's either. When I said it was a go-go situation, I meant I got a sudden offer (from someone facing some ca$$h problems though), so I've pulled the trigger thinking about a "maybe-future" second setup.

Only after listening to the SVS's that I've realised how good they are, if compared to the S38II, though.

Another point to mention is that I've always tought that a 3-way system would better perform than a 2-way system. Another good surprise to me on that particular,as the SVS's are a 2-way MTM type.

Matter of fact, I wasn't thinking about an upgrade for now, as I was quite happy with my S38II's. I've just realised that there are indeed better options out there without costing an arm & a leg, but in my case, the price I've paid for the ID's were just a steal; even though at full MSRP they worth every cent, IMO...

Regards, Chuck
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post #3043 of 14065
7/7/08 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

You might wish to consider the rather obvious fact that when someone posts in a JBL thread asking for knowledge of JBL speakers, he's probably not needing to hear about other branded speakers or how JBL is inferior to speaker x, y, z. So I really didn't find much in your posts that was on topic. Thanks for your time.

This sounds a bit troll-like. Either that, or your reading comprehension skills require some exercise. Nowhere in my posts have I suggested that JBL was inferior to anything. Indeed, you were the one who stated that the S312's were "edgy" and in need of upgrading. As a matter of fact, I gave you much information about JBL speakers, having owned them (and still do) for 40 years. Why don't you go back and reread what I wrote before making this kind of statement?!

Unless you forgot, you were looking for an upgrade. My entire point to you was that you probably needed to get out of the consumer line of JBL products to note an "upgraded" sound. Yes, I suggested other options (including high-end JBLs), such as (free) auditioning only to broaden your experience base. By doing so we could help you with better suggestions as to what kind of speaker would best fit your needs. Never have I, nor will I bash JBL.

Yours is the kind of attitude that ruins threads. Welcome to my ignore list.
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post #3044 of 14065
7/7/08 at 11:12am
I caught part of a show yesterday about malls in this country being upgraded, including adding condos, to attach the public.

That got me thinking of many decades ago, when you could walk into a stereo shop, that sold JBLs, and see most, if not all, current models.

That's what we need now even more than then, as there are so many speakers which to chose from. Something better than Fry's, which has quite a few brands, but the last time I looked, didn't even carry every model in any given series.
But the way things are going, the B&M speaker shop is almost extinct.
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post #3045 of 14065
7/7/08 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Hello aracGuate,
Another vote for the L890s! I original purchased them for mains in my HT but they sound so good running full range with 200+ watts that I set up a separate 2 channel rig for music with a QSC 1450 amp. Much louder than my 75w AVR and I don't need a sub with them. I love them. I bought L880s for the HT to use with 2 L8400 subs, LC2 center and 4-L820s surrounds. I Love 'em. So will you!

Thank you guys from AVS. Thank you Bob7145
I did not expect so many answers in this short time.
With your info, I hardly can wait until my new L890s arrive.
Those are going to be my front L+R channel speakers; and Im going to use them mainly for music listening.
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post #3046 of 14065
7/7/08 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aracGuate View Post

Thank you guys from AVS. Thank you Bob7145
I did not expect so many answers in this short time.
With your info, I hardly can wait until my new L890s arrive.
Those are going to be my front L+R channel speakers; and Im going to use them mainly for music listening.

You won't be disappointed, and to get the most from the L890s use an amp of at least 200w, especially if its a large room. They are very good throughout the entire range, and with enough power, those dual 8" woofers will really give you plenty of bass.
I originally had a pair connected to a 220wpc amp in a large HT/LR and the L890s just completly filled the room with sound w/o a sub.
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post #3047 of 14065
7/7/08 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

To understand the differences between the S312 and L890, it's worthwhile to dig a little deeper than just writing that "edgy is more or less" the sound of consumer JBLs. I won't dispute that the S312 has an edge to it, but JBL has done a number of things as it moved through the generations since the Studio Series to improve the sound, and the Studio L Series is far enough removed from the first consumer Studio Series to warrant a closer look.

JBL solved some of the diffraction problems by creating narrower baffles on the front. When coupled with an improved EOS Waveguide and a different Ti tweeter, the audible artifacts are eliminated.

In addition, the crossover topology is improved. The original S312 tweeter had to work down to 3 kHz and all the way up to the limits of its ability. The higher-resistance L890 tweeter picks up at 5 kHz and hands off the UHF at 20 kHz to the dedicated UHF driver. That's a far easier load for the tweeter and plays to its strengths. A tweeter in the sweet spot of its range is a happy tweeter.

Another change is the presence of a different 4" driver with a slightly higher resistance. The crossover asks it to run from 700 Hz to 5 kHz, and it's pretty uniform throughout that range. It has a more natural drop off near 5 kHz than the S312's 4" driver had at 3 kHz where its rising output was somewhat of a problem.

Even with its 12" driver the S312 was taxed to get down to 35 Hz, and its top end was nominally 20 kHz. The L890 runs from 28 Hz to 40 kHz; though you obviously can't hear to 40 kHz (or even 20 kHz if you're my age), there's plenty of evidence that those "unhearable" frequencies have a lot to do with spatialization and presence in sound.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~ashon/a...ltrasonics.htm

In the final analysis, mudslide is correct that auditioning is the only way to know for sure what you'll like. From a technical perspective, however, the Studio L Series is not your same old JBL sound.

Hey filecat13, thank you for your time writing this post. Your explanation was clear enough to understand what can you expect from those speakers.
And as you say, at my age, 45, Im pretty sure I cant hear some of the UHF sounds, but I know that that UHF is a big improvement in HT sounds.
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post #3048 of 14065
7/7/08 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

You won't be disappointed, and to get the most from the L890s use an amp of at least 200w, especially if its a large room. They are very good throughout the entire range, and with enough power, those dual 8" woofers will really give you plenty of bass.
I originally had a pair connected to a 220wpc amp in a large HT/LR and the L890s just completly filled the room with sound w/o a sub.

4DHD, how would you compare your Performance Series to the L-Series? Or said another way...what is it about the P-Series that caused you to change out from the L?
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post #3049 of 14065
7/7/08 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudslide View Post

4DHD, how would you compare your Performance Series to the L-Series? Or said another way...what is it about the P-Series that caused you to change out from the L?

At the time I went to listen to the L890s that was all I was going to do, just listen to some new speakers, as I had been using L212s for almost 30years.
But I thought they were so good that I'd bring a pair home. They just caught my ear, unlike the S series never did.
But 6 months later I found a sweet deal on 5 PT800s. I had been looking for them for 4 1/2 years since I had first read the review in SGHT. The PT800s are, in fact, the latest generation the the L212s. And I wasn't disappointed, the PT800 is an improvement over the L212, more airy through its entire range, and faster, because of their Ti drivers, which is what you want for movies.

Also, for HT and MC music I prefer to have identical speakers all around, something that is easier to do, as far as setup, with the PT800s. Mount them to stands, mount to the top of subs (my mains are) or wall mount, as I have the surrounds.

As for the comparision between the PT800 and L890, the obvious difference is the L890s are full range. And as much as I like the L890s I find the PT800s to be more detailed, more airy throughout their entire range.
And then there are, as with the L212s, the 8" mid-bass drivers, which I'll take over any 5" or 6" driver.

I've been listening to speakers with 8" mid-bass, for so long, that anytime I hear a HT system that goes from tweeter/midrange to sub, or an inadequate mid-bass I can tell with my eyes closed.

So in the end I had more speakers than I needed, my daughter was about to get married, I needed to get her a wedding present, and her boy friend only had Blose, so Marla got some very nice, just barely broken in, L890s.

So my custom, Charged-Coupled L212 pair (that had been the HT mains) took the place of the L890s that had been connected to a TT.
Having those CC L212s made it much easier to part with the L890s.
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post #3050 of 14065
7/7/08 at 3:00pm
I just purchased the 2 L820s (front) , a LC2 and 2 L810s and I want to either get another set of 810s for a 7.1 channel system or possible move the 820s back and pick up a pair of 890s for the front when I don't have to worry about the kids messing with them on the floor. I pulled out my old TX-SR702 (100w X 7) and hooked up the 820s and the LC2 and they sounded great, but It seemed like I had to turn them up alot more than I had to on my previous system, I think I had the volume level maxed at one point. I am not sure if it because I did not have something set up right or if the L series require alot of power. I am looking at getting one of the new denons when they come out, possibly the 1909 which has 90 X 7. I am just wondering, are these speakers known to take alot of power? Should I try to get a receiver with more?
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post #3051 of 14065
7/7/08 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

You won't be disappointed, and to get the most from the L890s use an amp of at least 200w, especially if its a large room. They are very good throughout the entire range, and with enough power, those dual 8" woofers will really give you plenty of bass.
I originally had a pair connected to a 220wpc amp in a large HT/LR and the L890s just completly filled the room with sound w/o a sub.

Hey there. I moved my 890s to a 21x17x9 room and they sound good with my 94. I love listening to music in ext stereo. So...I was thinking about getting an Emotiva MPS-2 when they are released. Do you think I need this? Will I really be able to tell the difference at low volumes? I just want to make sure before I plunk down the cash. I love my 890s and want to make sure I am getting the most out of them.

Thanks,
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post #3052 of 14065
7/7/08 at 3:56pm
Hello hellerbrewing, I'm not sure if they need more power or not. What are you using for a sub? The LC2 is a bigger speaker than the L820. I use the 820s for surrounds. The 820 would make a great rear speaker if you planned to occasionally use the rears for zone 2 stereo. I do that sometimes to play the radio or a cd for background music. The 810 is not as sensitive as the other L series so the speaker level might need turning up in the receiver. I am currently using L880s for mains cause the woofers size all match between the LC2, L820 and L880.
I had L890s in front but felt they weren't getting used to the fullest with my 70wpc amp so I made a separate 2 channel rig for them with a 280w amp. I'm using the 810s for sides in another room with 830s for mains and an LC1 center.
Since I bought all these 1 pair at a time they have been through many combinations but I settled on this configuration.
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post #3053 of 14065
7/7/08 at 4:26pm
[quote=Bob7145;14238995]I had L890s in front but felt they weren't getting used to the fullest with my 70wpc amp so I made a separate 2 channel rig for them with a 280w amp. I'm using the 810s for sides in another room with 830s for mains and an LC1 center.
(QUOTE]

I've used as small as an 80w Denon receiver with the L890s, but that was in a much smaller room, connected to a TT, and had the volume close to 0db most of the time.
But giving those L890s at least 200w brings them to life, they are rated for 250w, so anything up to 400w would be good.
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post #3054 of 14065
7/7/08 at 4:32pm
Yeah, the L890s sounded great on my AVR but I never turned it up more than -20db. No particular reason just a setting I'm stuck on. With the QSC -20db is quite loud!
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post #3055 of 14065
7/7/08 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Yeah, the L890s sounded great on my AVR but I never turned it up more than -20db. No particular reason just a setting I'm stuck on. With the QSC -20db is quite loud!

-20db is generally where I have the master volume in the HT, which is over 3200 cuft. But in the smaller room, 13x17, with one end of that BR only being about 8ft wide, as a coat closet cuts into the room, the Denon 80w receiver was taxed to the max driving the L890s to get any amount of volume.
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post #3056 of 14065
7/7/08 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run4Cuvr View Post

Hey there. I moved my 890s to a 21x17x9 room and they sound good with my 94. I love listening to music in ext stereo. So...I was thinking about getting an Emotiva MPS-2 when they are released. Do you think I need this? Will I really be able to tell the difference at low volumes? I just want to make sure before I plunk down the cash. I love my 890s and want to make sure I am getting the most out of them.

Thanks,

That's about the same size room as my HT (17.5'x 20'), my vaulted ceiling would average to about 9'. With a room that wide, one can set up a pair of speakers 8' ~ 10' apart and still be well away from the side walls to let the speakers produce a really good soundstage.
How may watts is the 94?
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post #3057 of 14065
7/7/08 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob7145 View Post

Hello hellerbrewing, I'm not sure if they need more power or not. What are you using for a sub?

I will be using an infinity CSW-10 sub, but I did not have it hooked up, I was just making sure the speakers worked. I am slowly rennovating the basement and I'm not ready to put them up yet.

I want to go with wall mounts for the time being because I have a 2 year old that is in to everything and a 3 month old that I'm sure will be. I chose the L series based on the Sound and Vision review and demoing the 820s in NE Furniture mart. I told them I was interested in the TX-SR705 (100 W/Ch) and they turned on the 805 (130 W/Ch). I thought they sounded awesome but I am beginning to realize why they used the 805.

I remember hearing that Harman Kardon rates the wattage of their recievers differently than other manufacturers which is why their wattage ratings are so low. I thought I heard that denon recievers are similar in rating to H/K but I am not sure. Sounds like the wattage on the 1909 is going to be a little low (90 W/Ch), but upgrading to higher models is only going to get me another 10 watts (going by the 08 models). Might be good to get a model that has preamp outs if I decide to go with the 890s down the road. Does anyone make a decently priced 7 channel amp?
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post #3058 of 14065
7/7/08 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

...snip.... Might be good to get a model that has preamp outs if I decide to go with the 890s down the road. Does anyone make a decently priced 7 channel amp?

I am wondering this as well. As an L series owner I have mine wired up to some 10 year old Kenwood that was a hand-me-down from a buddy. It'll do the job (sadly, in a 3.0 config) until I finish my basement remodel.

Anyhow, I've had my eye on the Pio 1018 and the Elite VSX-01 receivers. The 1018 has recently been released while the elite line is due in August, I think. Nevertheless, I am very curious to read the user reviews on those...
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post #3059 of 14065
7/7/08 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

I will be using an infinity CSW-10 sub, but I did not have it hooked up, I was just making sure the speakers worked. I am slowly rennovating the basement and I'm not ready to put them up yet.

I want to go with wall mounts for the time being because I have a 2 year old that is in to everything and a 3 month old that I'm sure will be. I chose the L series based on the Sound and Vision review and demoing the 820s in NE Furniture mart. I told them I was interested in the TX-SR705 (100 W/Ch) and they turned on the 805 (130 W/Ch). I thought they sounded awesome but I am beginning to realize why they used the 805.

I remember hearing that Harman Kardon rates the wattage of their recievers differently than other manufacturers which is why their wattage ratings are so low. I thought I heard that denon recievers are similar in rating to H/K but I am not sure. Sounds like the wattage on the 1909 is going to be a little low (90 W/Ch), but upgrading to higher models is only going to get me another 10 watts (going by the 08 models). Might be good to get a model that has preamp outs if I decide to go with the 890s down the road. Does anyone make a decently priced 7 channel amp?

Going from a 100w unit to a 130w unit there is little to be gained, if the volume on the 100w amp is near, or at 0db. To gain another 3db in volume would require twice the power, or 200w.
Yes, HK receivers and amps are rated low, compared to other amps, including Denon.
I had a Denon 80w stereo receiver and a HK 100w amp that I was using in the same room with the same speakers. I always has the Denon between 0 ~ -6db, the HK would only be around 20w, max.

About the only cheap amps I know of is Outlaw.
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post #3060 of 14065
7/7/08 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

That's about the same size room as my HT (17.5'x 20'), my vaulted ceiling would average to about 9'. With a room that wide, one can set up a pair of speakers 8' ~ 10' apart and still be well away from the side walls to let the speakers produce a really good soundstage.
How may watts is the 94?

They are about 8' apart now and 1' from the wall and away for the corners. The 94 is 140 WPC
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