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Desperately Need Help (keep blowing speakers)

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I bought a Pioneer VSX-516 to put in my pool cabana to power some rock speakers by the pool. I ran 14 guage landscape wire (the kind you use for lights) as my speaker cable. I hooked up two 150 watt rock speakers and everything was fine until halfway through my sons party when one blew (lost the woofer). An hour later the other went. So I figured defective speakers since I am only pushing 100 watts to each speaker. I bought a different set of rock speakers to replace those and tried again. The new speakers are only 125 watts but again I figured I should be fine. After about 20 minutes of testing, they both blew (again lost the woofer). I know I haven't hooked anything up backwards so is it the receiver, the wire, the speakers, all of the above???? Please HELP ME.....Thanks
post #2 of 20
Landscape wire? Why would you use landscape wire?
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCall View Post

Landscape wire? Why would you use landscape wire?

Several posts on this forum had stated that it worked well so I trusted it....
post #4 of 20
Are the speakers or something else getting wet and causing a short? Are you cranking the volume way up? Keep in mind that it's a lot easier to blow speakers by underpowering them than overpowering them. You can blow speakers rated for 500 watts with a 50 watt amp if you overdrive the amp (cranking the volume level up such that the amp clips).
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
I am positive that nothing is getting wet. I am making the connectsion with waterproof wire nuts and the latest set blew this evening with no water anywhere. I am cranking it up because that is the only way that I get any real sound...nothing that you can hear from more than 3 feet away comes out of the speakers until the receiver gets up to about -20db...usually around -7 produces enough sound to fill the area. I am guessing that I might be expecting too much from outdoor speakers or should I just be buying lower watt rated speakers. I was afraid that I would blow speakers rated at less than 100 watts.
post #6 of 20
Its a safe bet that your Pioneer 516 doesn't really put out 100 watts channel. And if it did get to the 100 watt level it is most likely with a high amount of distortion which will kill your speakers. For a $199 receiver its probably decent but not real powerful.

If you can try a different receiver to see if it makes the difference.
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
But if that's the receiver that I am going to keep, should I go with lower wattage speakers??? I really don't want to put an expensive receiver in a pool cabana. Would I be better off with 75 watt speakers or even lower? I have a Pioneer VSX-D850 that I use inside and it runs some Yamaha outdoor speakers on my deck with no problems, but the Yamaha's supposedly only want about 40-50 watts nominal.
post #8 of 20
What is your budget? If you can afford about $300/pair, you won't go wrong with Axioms new outdoor speakers. They will sound great and won't blow, guaranteed. I'm guessing your not wanting to spend a lot? They are very efficient. My guess is your turning your receiver up so far that it is clipping and blowing the voice coils on those cheap rock speakers.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/outdoor_speakers.html
post #9 of 20
...and here I thought this was going to be a punny thread about the "Joy of Politics."
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by nymart View Post

But if that's the receiver that I am going to keep, should I go with lower wattage speakers??? I really don't want to put an expensive receiver in a pool cabana. Would I be better off with 75 watt speakers or even lower? I have a Pioneer VSX-D850 that I use inside and it runs some Yamaha outdoor speakers on my deck with no problems, but the Yamaha's supposedly only want about 40-50 watts nominal.

Speaker wattage recommendations aren't worth the paper they're printed on. My speakers are rated 10-125 watts. I power them with a 350 watt per channel amplifier. Sirquack has the right idea. You need more efficient speakers because you are probably driving the amplifier into clipping while trying to get the volume you desire. That will blow speakers in a heartbeat. If your current speakers are, say, 87dB efficient (1 watt input to the speaker measured from one meter away produces 87dB then going to a 90dB efficient speaker will produce 90dB with the same power or the same 87dB with only half that. Efficiency, not wattage ratings, is the key.

Greg
post #11 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirquack View Post

What is your budget? If you can afford about $300/pair, you won't go wrong with Axioms new outdoor speakers. They will sound great and won't blow, guaranteed. I'm guessing your not wanting to spend a lot? They are very efficient. My guess is your turning your receiver up so far that it is clipping and blowing the voice coils on those cheap rock speakers.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/outdoor_speakers.html

Those are very nice, but I've always found speakers utilizing horn drivers to be much better outdoors. They also tend to be more efficient which helps with low wattage amps. Klipsch comes to mind.
post #12 of 20
Try different speakers. Who makes the rock speakers? Probably not a "real" speaker company. Get some real speakers appropriate for the task.
post #13 of 20
I'm going to go out on a limb here. You said you keep blowing the woofer, is their also a tweeter in the unit? If their is a tweeter & your burning up the woofer first I would suspect that you have the Bass turned way up & are smoking the driver that way.
I only ask because if there is a tweeter in the speaker & the receiver is clipping it would normally be the first to go. By the woofer blowing first it really sounds to me like your just asking for more than what the speaker can do & over driving it with a bit too much EQ.

BTW, as a couple others have suggested don't get all hung up on wattage of the speaker. You wont to look for something efficient. Something in the 90db 1watt 1 meter range & up is a good starting point for a good efficiency. The more efficient the speaker the better it will use the power available
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Try different speakers. Who makes the rock speakers? Probably not a "real" speaker company. Get some real speakers appropriate for the task.

The first set came from outdoorspeakerdepot which had gotten good reviews by some of the other members. The second set were KLH which I just picked up to see how they would sound, but they blew even faster.
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonytheater View Post

I'm going to go out on a limb here. You said you keep blowing the woofer, is their also a tweeter in the unit?

Yes there is a tweeter and after they "blew" the only sound coming out was from the tweeter. As far as the EQ settings, I hadn't changed that on the receiver, it was default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonytheater View Post

BTW, as a couple others have suggested don't get all hung up on wattage of the speaker. You wont to look for something efficient. Something in the 90db 1watt 1 meter range & up is a good starting point for a good efficiency. The more efficient the speaker the better it will use the power available

The first set of speakers had a "sensitivity" of 90db which I assumed meant efficiency rating, but who knows...
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by nymart View Post

The first set of speakers had a "sensitivity" of 90db which I assumed meant efficiency rating, but who knows...

Sensitivity is sensitivity. Efficiency is a slightly different concept, though the two things get confused, efficiency isn't particularly relevant, and sensitivity is almost always what people mean when they say efficiency w/regards to speakers.
post #17 of 20
First of all, the speaker wire is almost irrelevant, that has been debunked many times although companies like monster cable insist otherwise. They are just a marketing company with pretty packaging and monster mark ups for it. Your statement of 14 gauge is enough.

Secondly, as Doug Blackburn constantly points out; you cannot blow speakers, as most people view it. A common myth. While, in this case, there is the possibility of some shorting going on there are only two reasons speakers blow; clipping & distortion.

I remember reading a serious Eopinions piece where someone claimed you must never use 50W speakers with a 100W amp very funny. Tell that to most large commercial or theme park installations world wide.

Most amplifiers, produced by any manufacturer, today are over run on specs particularly output. It is well known that in independent tests we read about around the web, most amplifiers are at full output, ie. not producing any distortion or clipping, at half their volume tuning level.

Above that anything goes, it gets hairy with distortion or clipping produced being subject to everything from the efficiency of the power system (which might be true in your case) to the type of sound being played to the input device, cd/mp3 etc., that is translating the signal noise. The greatest amp in the world can suffer crap input devices or a poor power source.

You blew not one but two sets of outdoor speakers, its unlikely its the speakers. You need to talk to not only someone who knows speakers inside and out but also know amplification systems and related hardware.

I bought my outdoor speakers from a real speaker manufacturer (see above post) TIC Corp, www.ticcorp.com and in discussing accessories they recommended their partners Parts Express www.partsexpress.com who do everything to do with speakers and related technology. You can even ask to speak to their well known speaker designer Darren Kuzma. This guy has a great reputation. He might actually enjoy your unusual problem as an intellectual exercise.

Without actually seeing your installation and its specifics which is always hard, the advice can only be general but 99% of the time that's all it takes. See their website or give em a call, its an 800 number and you got nothing to lose.

GL!
post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalest View Post

I bought my outdoor speakers from a real speaker manufacturer (see above post) TIC Corp, www.ticcorp.com and in discussing accessories they recommended their partners Parts Express www.partsexpress.com who do everything to do with speakers and related technology. You can even ask to speak to their well known speaker designer Darren Kuzma. This guy has a great reputation. He might actually enjoy your unusual problem as an intellectual exercise.

I had looked at the TIC speakers but having never heard them (aside from low level background music at theme parks) I was hesitant to order them as I wasn't sure whether they could be cranked up or if they were just meant for background. At this point, I think I will just put some Atrium 45's on the cabana and see how that goes. I didn't want to do this because there is very little overhang to shield them from the element. I know I will be giving up significant bass response, so if it comes out sounding too bright I might run set of TIC rocks or Omni's with 5-5.25 in drivers to get a little more depth...Which TIC's do you recommend?
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalest View Post

Secondly, as Doug Blackburn constantly points out; you cannot blow speakers, as most people view it. A common myth. While, in this case, there is the possibility of some shorting going on there are only two reasons speakers blow; clipping & distortion.

So not to open a can of worms here, but I really must. Though I doubt this is the cause of the OP's problem you are really saying that you honestly believe that clipping the amp is the only way to "blow" a speaker.
In other words things like overheating the VC with too much input power wouldn't do it as long as no clipping is present? Or simply running the speaker beyond it mechanical limits would not cause it, again as long as the signal is un clipped?
post #20 of 20
Here's another thought that hasn't been brought up - maybe you have some DC in the line either from a defect in the amp, leakage into the wire from something outside, or whatever. You wouldn't hear anything nasty from the speaker since it's essentially 0 Hz, but over time the voice coil will heat up enough to fail. I cooked an Altec instrument speaker in a sub that way with a 60 watt amp - had no clue there was a problem until it just stopped working, only took about 20-30 minutes. Should be able to tell pretty quickly with a multimeter.
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