Blu-ray player profiles explained in detail - Page 3

I likewise think they may be keeping quiet so as not to jeapordize sales of current models until they are ready to actually ship the newer ones... Come on Live capable players!!!

AaronS

samsung released their next gen player news recently here it is:

Samsung developing 3rd Gen Blu-ray player
11 July 2007 9:30 by vurbal

Just months after its second-generation Blu-ray Disc player hit the streets, Samsung already has a third generation version in the works.

The company will display the model, the BD-P1400, during the 2007 IFA consumer electronics conference in Berlin on Aug. 31, confirmed a company representative.

The player is expected to support Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD and DTS-HD audio formats. The BD-P1400 also should boast a built-in Ethernet port, which had been the most notable upgrade for the second-generation Samsung BD-P1200 over the company's first-generation BD-P1000.

If the new Samsung player ships to retail after Oct. 31, it will be mandated by the Blu-ray Disc Assn. that it include certain features that were not required of Blu-ray models that streeted prior to that cut-off date. One new required enhancement will be the capability to playback picture-in-picture, in which one separate stream of video runs currently with the running feature film. To date, no Blu-ray stand-alone features picture-in-picture playback. HD DVD hardware has been required to handle this feature since the launch of the format last year.

Source: Video Business

i have also heard of a 2400 planned as well and rumors of sony s500 by ye2007 or yn2008.

Excellent first post, and excellent thread! I have unsubscribed from Format Battle General Discussion Thread III and subscribed to this one.

Thumbs up on the decoding the newest codecs and the Realta chipset, but the high MSRP is unsettling (to me). It wll be interesting to see if they can make them fly out the door at (anywhere near) that price. I find the second unit you mention more interesting, though, as it passes the advanced codecs' bitstreams for outboard decoding. I've been involved in several, umm . . discussions on this and "advanced content." The argument *for* onboard decoding is mixing audio streams from the movie, bonus content and even streaming from the internet. Well, when I'm watching a movie, I only want to hear the movie. The proponents further aver that all decoders are identical and there's no difference between passing the stream for external decoding and passing PCM after onboard decoding. I am not knowledgeable enough to accept or refute that, but I can't help but have a suspicion that better circuitry would make *some* difference. If ALL decoders use the same chip, then how about the supporting components, and how about the quality of the power supply?

I'd be interested in hearing more about that last issue as well as comments on advanced content and external decoding.

Denon's high end DVD players have never really been designed/priced to fly off the shelves, but rather to appeal to a certain segment of the market that appreciates a well constructed machine. I have a DVD-5900 and DVD-2900 at home in my two systems (neither at MSRP, I'm not Rockerfeller here) and they sound great and play just about anything that existed when they were released which saved me from needing multiple components. These seem to be the continuations of two existing product lines, and the prices are in line with the previous DVD-only models.

Robert, thanks for making this thread, I wasn't very clear on the different profiles. It looks like I will be waiting until at least Oct 31, or until Sony clarifies an upgrade path for the PS3, before becoming neutral. I've enjoyed some of the advanced features of my HD-DVD discs and think I'll appreciate the added features of the 1.1 spec at least.

Dennon has a really nice player, but for 2K no SACD - No DVD Audio, and no ethernet makes it obsolete by years end!

"Thats assuming that the october BR update is correct.

Only if accessing the internet via your optical player is important to you. As for DVD-A/SACD, I'll be keeping my 3910 around - maybe forever if no next gen players support it.

BD-Video 1.1 does not require ethernet.

BD-Live does, but there isn't a date set for BD-Live, and AFAIK BD-Live will only be optional.

If the players contain ethernet, presumably that can at least be used for firmware updates even if the player isn't BD-Live capable. That's been very convenient on my Toshiba A2 for HD-DVD. I've been looking into BD players but have been holding off for both price reasons, and these BD player profiles. It's kind of frustrating, because I want to get into BD, but don't want to get hosed from a consumer standpoint.

Well put I feel the same way, I've had two HD DVD players the A1, and now the XA2. The ethernet option to update firmware is a big plus for me. I know the PS3 can do this but I do not want a PS3 in my theater. Hopefully they will get this worked out, one thing Blu-Ray seems to need is a standard profile rather than the three, although there does not seem to be a major issue there, other than SD PIP. I fear studios will play to the lowest common denominator. If that happens what good will it be to have a player with all the bells?

It's come to the point to where I don't care which format it is. I just want lots of great content. On the computer side a 200 Gig Blu-Ray would rock for backup over the 60 Gig HD DVD.

Are we sure that PiP/second video stream decoder is simply not there in ANY profile 1.0 players? The feature is OPTIONAL for 1.0, not excluded from. AFAIK, no discs include IME/PiP because there aren't enough supporting players for it to be worth bothering to re-do on the BD version, not because there aren't any supporting players.

DailyTech.com (Anandtech) and Doom9.net are reporting that the "lack" of BD Java is why we don't have IME features on Blu-Ray. Despite my constant comments and corrections, they haven't done anything about it. In fact, DT references a much older article where they claimed the same thing and went completely uncorrected. Will anyone support me on this? I seem to be the lone dissenting voice over there and these are being picked up by other news sites (uncorrected).

As I understand it, Denon's new player was to have been the first BD 1.1 compliant player to ship this year.

But now that it is delayed till Q2 2008, are there any other *confirmed* BD 1.1 players scheduled to ship this year? I know there are a bunch of players that will ship before the mandatory November 1st 2007 date, but that means they don't have to be 1.1, and I haven't seen any BD 1.1 player announcements besides the Denon.

Can anyone help?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=897661

I suspect these new profiles aren't being annouced early to avoid impacting existing unit sales. Maybe we'll see (or hear of) something at Cedia. Do you have a link to where the Denon was delayed? I'd read this elsewhere on the forum but it seemed to be a rumor, with some thinking that this was a mixup with the European version.

RDjam, can you point to an announcement that the Denon has been delayed in the US? The discussion (which you're naturally spinning into as big a Blu-ray negative as you can) was that European delivery has been delayed. There has been no confirmation that this will impact the US.

rdjam has been busy... he has already gotten two other threads closed just this morning for similar postings

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post11432676

I read that Daewoo announced a 1.1/2.0 player at IFA. Is 2.0 the same as BD-Live or is it something different?

Thanks!

2.0 *is* BD-Live.

Richard, you should probably update all the profiles to indicate that only "64 KB of persistent memory required" with the other profiles also noting that they require higher capabilities.

IF the PS3 can be upgraded to 1.1 why not just upgrade it to 2.0 and save a step?

A. I think I get the general idea, but what the ?##??# is "BD-Video?" And why isn't it explained (or, at least, why isn't reference given to another site that would explain it (assuming the original post is a FAQ intended for those who want to learn more about this very rapidly developing technology? - The term isn't even defined in Wikipedia! For example, is there a glossary of such HD/audio terms on a website? (I think that when we have been following ongoing discussions of such subjects on AVS and elsewhere, we begin to assume that it's common, general knowledge, even though there may only be a few hundred or so really following the discusion in detail.)

B. Assuming we want to get a Blu-Ray player with the new BDV 1.1XX capabilities from a local dealer, how do we ensure that a player we buy from the dealer has the latest firmware/updates and hasn't been sitting on his shelf since before the update?

Jim

This may be a bit off subject, but does anyone know if it is possible to pass out DD 5.1 throught the digital output on a BluRay movie? Is there something in the BluRay specs. that prohibits it?
I have tried 2 players, the Sony S-300 and the Pany BD-10A. I believe the setup was okay as a regular DVD would pass DD5.1 just fine from these players. As soon as I put in a BluRay disc, all I could get was ProLogic surround sound.
Thanks for any infor you may have - PK

if you are refering to bitstreaming of truehd and dts-hd-ma via hdmi the only player that currently can do this is the new sammy bdp1400. all other players you must set your player (in settings) for analog pcm for those upper audio channels. the end result of bitstreaming to the avr vs pcm analog is exactly the same for losseless audio.

Thanks for the response Cappy.

What I want however, is just DolbyDigita 5.1 like on DVD's, not DD+ or DD True. The reason is that my B&K 307 Receiver does not have HDMI, and it only has 5.1 analog inputs that I am using for my SACD player. Eventually I will update the receiver, but for now I would be content with DVD quality DD 5.1 on BluRay movies. It seems that BluRay will NOT allow this. I can only get the Old Dobly Surround (matrix out of 2 channels). This seems to be intentional on the part of the BluRay authors - why I don't know. If I pop a DVD into my Blue ray player - then I get Dolby Digital 5.1 - as soon as I switch to a BluRay disc it reverts back to dolby surround.

My HD-DVD player supports all the new DD+/True, but it will also support DD5.1 on optical digital connection. This is a much better experience then watching BluRay for me. BD's picture is great, but I'm forced to watch it with sound that is from the 1980's. I don't feel like being forced into spending $$$ for the BluRay player, BluRay moview AND a new Receiver. I suspect many consumers feel the same way and I fear this is just going to cause this formats demise - just like SACD and DVD audio.

If you select the DD or DTS track, then the player will send them out the optical/SPDIF output. You might need to configure your player to send the audio as bitstream.

If you select the PCM track, then the player will send a Dolby Surround PCM out the optical/SPDIF output. Many people like this better because you get a 1.5 Mbps audio stream instead of the 640/448 kbps DD. Dolby Prologic II does a pretty good job at recreating the surround effect.