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Harman Kardon AVR 247 & 347 discussion thread. - Page 9

post #241 of 5259
Ok................So if I am only planning on running 5.1 for the next few years I would be fine then???
post #242 of 5259
Well yes and no.....5.1 sure but if you want to overlay Logic 7 while using 5.1 on your HD-DVD's supposedly the 247 won't allow that.
post #243 of 5259
I see, does this mean absolutely no surround on HD DVD's or will I still have surround but just no logic 7. I guess I should go read about logic 7 to see if I am going to want or need it for my setup. If people are that concerned about it....... it must be the cats behind.
post #244 of 5259
Yeah you will just have the normal processing the disk has on HD DVD's from what I understand. Just no way to matrix the rears or run Logic 7 with it.

I currently have a Denon 2307CI that allows me to overlay DPL IIx while watching HD DVD's via HDMI so I can utilize it's processing and the ability to run my rears (7.1) I used to own an HK 435 and I really miss the way it sounded and Logic 7. Logic 7 does wonders for movies with dialog that sounds too low....which seems to be a lot of DVD's. It also makes the soundfield much wider and spacious IMO. I want to go back to using it....just need to find the HK that will do it with my HD player.
post #245 of 5259
Well thanks for all of the info on this. I really would not know what I am missing at this point in the game. I think I will keep the 247 coming since I got it for under 400 bucks. I can upgrade again in a year or two unless that firmware ends up being produced.

Thanks again
post #246 of 5259
Sure thing...now I just need an HK expert to tell me which model does what I want it to do! LOL

Why do they make things so confusing?
post #247 of 5259
There are settings in the AVR that allow you to make the sound field wider BTW.

Logic 7 is ok I suppose, but I typically go with Mulitchannel PCM, DTS and Dobly and I'm happy.
post #248 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTobey View Post

I see, does this mean absolutely no surround on HD DVD's or will I still have surround but just no logic 7. I guess I should go read about logic 7 to see if I am going to want or need it for my setup. If people are that concerned about it....... it must be the cats behind.

There is no problem with 5.1 and only a few are concerned about new PCM in 7.1.

Read my post (#233) above and you will see that with any 5.1 input I can get some sort of 7.1 to work.
post #249 of 5259
Quote:


Read my post (#233) above and you will see that with any 5.1 input I can get some sort of 7.1 to work.

But not Logic 7 correct? Only the 645/745 will do this from what I'm reading?
post #250 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios View Post

There is no problem with 5.1 and only a few are concerned about new PCM in 7.1.

Read my post (#233) above and you will see that with any 5.1 input I can get some sort of 7.1 to work.


Very good then. This makes me feel much better. I am very excited to get my 247 soon. I had narrowed it down to the 247 or the onkyo 674 or 605. The 247 was about a hundred bucks more than the Onkyo's so I was not going to get it. Then I found it for the same price as the others so i nabbed it.

I am going to pair it up with the svs 5.1 sbs-01 system. I am ordering this tonight unless someone can change my mind before then.
post #251 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTobey View Post

Very good then. This makes me feel much better. I am very excited to get my 247 soon. I had narrowed it down to the 247 or the onkyo 674 or 605. The 247 was about a hundred bucks more than the Onkyo's so I was not going to get it. Then I found it for the same price as the others so i nabbed it.

I am going to pair it up with the svs 5.1 sbs-01 system. I am ordering this tonight unless someone can change my mind before then.

Sounds like a good combo to me. Let us know what you think after it is set up.
post #252 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper0103 View Post

But not Logic 7 correct? Only the 645/745 will do this from what I'm reading?

I think Bommai commented on this a few pages ago. As I said, I'm no expert but have always found something that sounds good from all 7 speakers. Maybe I don't know what I am missing?

I do sometimes get all 7 speaker boxes filled in (showing unique sources) from certain DVDs.
post #253 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Your understanding is incorrect. When you set the speaker size to SMALL, all audio signals below the crossover for that channel is sent to the sub automatically. That is the purpose for the "SMALL" designation. This is true for all 7 channels. So, the sub will output all LFE signal as well as all signals below the crossover freq for each of the other channels. When you select LARGE for the fronts, you have the option of outputting the LFE and the front L/R signals to the sub or just the LFE to the sub.

That's very strange. Why would the manual provide as follows, then:

Quote:


SUBWOOFER: Move the cursor to the line for the subwoofer, which is
programmed a little differently. The subwoofer's size setting depends
upon how you programmed the front left and right speakers.

If you set the front speakers to SMALL, the subwoofer setting will be
SUB (LFE), and you won't be able to change it. All low-frequency
information will always be sent to the subwoofer. If you don't have
a subwoofer, you may wish to set your front speakers to LARGE
so as not to lose this information, but you may need to lower the
volume to avoid adverse results. We recommend that you either
upgrade to full-range speakers or add a subwoofer to your system
at the earliest opportunity.

If you set the front speakers to LARGE, you may select from three
possible settings for the subwoofer.

SUB L/R+LFE: This setting sends all low-frequency information
to the subwoofer, including both information that would normally
be played through the front left and right speakers and the special
low-frequency effects (LFE) channel information.

SUB (LFE): This setting plays low-frequency information contained
in the left and right program channels to the front speakers, and
directs only the LFE channel information to the subwoofer.

NONE: This setting steers all low-frequency information to the
front speakers, and no information to the subwoofer output. Use
this setting if you have a passive subwoofer, or a powered subwoofer
that you connected to the front speaker outputs.

Based upon the definition of "SUB (LFE)", it appears to me that if you set your speakers to "Small", then the Sub is getting *only* the LFE. Were it as you describe, shouldn't "SUB L/R+LFE" be the "default" setting for the sub resulting from setting the speakers to "small"? I'm not doubting you, it's probably just a confusing point in the manual, but it is certainly that!

--Mav
post #254 of 5259
The manual is just worded badly, it is saying the same thing.
post #255 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

That's very strange. Why would the manual provide as follows, then:



Based upon the definition of "SUB (LFE)", it appears to me that if you set your speakers to "Small", then the Sub is getting *only* the LFE. Were it as you describe, shouldn't "SUB L/R+LFE" be the "default" setting for the sub resulting from setting the speakers to "small"? I'm not doubting you, it's probably just a confusing point in the manual, but it is certainly that!

--Mav


The big difference between LARGE and SMALL is that LARGE gets all frequencies for that channel, while SMALL gets only frequencies above the crossover (that is settable). When you set the speakers to SMALL, the sub will always get the frequencies below the crossover. That is why you cannot choose what the sub can do. SUB (LFE) is a bad wording, but when the sub is SUB (LFE) and the speakers are SMALL, the sub channel will contain all LFE and all low frequencies below crossover from all SMALL channels.

When you have LARGE speakers, the sub can be configured to carry just LFE or SUB LFE + L/R. The second option will give you the same low frequencies from the front LARGE speakers to the sub channel as well as the fronts. This will result in a little bigger bass - might actually screw up the sound, again might not.

The manual wording is pretty confusing - this kind of bad wording is all over the manual.
post #256 of 5259
Quote:
The manual wording is pretty confusing - this kind of bad wording is all over the manual.

Try reading a Denon manual! LOL
post #257 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

The big difference between LARGE and SMALL is that LARGE gets all frequencies for that channel, while SMALL gets only frequencies above the crossover (that is settable). When you set the speakers to SMALL, the sub will always get the frequencies below the crossover. That is why you cannot choose what the sub can do. SUB (LFE) is a bad wording, but when the sub is SUB (LFE) and the speakers are SMALL, the sub channel will contain all LFE and all low frequencies below crossover from all SMALL channels.

When you have LARGE speakers, the sub can be configured to carry just LFE or SUB LFE + L/R. The second option will give you the same low frequencies from the front LARGE speakers to the sub channel as well as the fronts. This will result in a little bigger bass - might actually screw up the sound, again might not.

The manual wording is pretty confusing - this kind of bad wording is all over the manual.

Awesome. Thanks A LOT for clearing that up. It's also good to know that someone other than me thinks the manual is confusing to say the least. So, basically, the long and short of this is that if I have a *good* subwoofer (which I do -- or, rather, will shortly), I should set my mains to "small" and set the crossover as low as the mains can effectively handle (to prevent localization of the sub), and just forget about the rest. Correct?

Again, seriously, thanks A LOT. I was actually considering dumping this Receiver as an option because of this issue. In my case, the bottom end of my Mains' stated range is 120Hz (with an 80Hz low frequency extension), so was inclined to set my crossover somewhere between 100Hz and 120Hz. If setting the mains to "small" was going to cause me to "lose" all non-LFE information below the crossover point, that was a dealbreaker for me since I have to set my crossover so high.

It is EXCELLENT news to me that such is not the case.

Thanks!
post #258 of 5259
I just received my AVR-347 and when I put the smaller front panel on the receiver, it got stuck... Now I am unable to remove it. Any ideas on how to remove it without damaging the receiver and the panel?

To give a better idea, the panel has gone in a bit on the left but the right side is inline - so I am not able to push it out as the manual indicates... This is a poor design by HK.
post #259 of 5259
I've been searching for a new AVR for a few a weeks...


I like the price point of the 247 here plus I have five Boston speakers (4 - CR67 and VCR Center) which I have read that h/k and bostons go well together?

My concerns are

- how well does the 247 handle 1080p info from a PS3 or HD-DVD player?
- will I become un-happy with just 720p from my Directv HR-20?

I would hook it up via HDMI for my PS3 and HD-DVD player both at 1080p; then my HR-20 (forced to output only 720p) to componenet and lastly my AppleTV also via componenet all to 247 out to my Sony SXRD 1080p via HDMI...

anyone here have a setup like this, if yes do you notice any loss of TV viewing at 720p only?


thanks in advance,
John
post #260 of 5259
The 247 handles 1080i/p just fine (60 frame, I don't know about 24 frame) from my HDA2 and Sony BDP-S300.

With satellite, the HD content is all too often HD lite (less than 1080i) and then compressed to hell and gone. Unless you crawl on top of your big screen, you won't see a difference running at 720p, maybe not even then.

Your AppleTV... If you want a 1080i/p output to your set, you'll have to either hook up component directly to the TV or get an HDMI switch. Component video in with HDMI out gets you 720p.

I have everything set to 720p with my 61" JVC D-iLA set and sit about 10-11 feet from it. At that distance, I cannot see a difference between 720p and 1080i (the max for my tv). There is even a chart out there somewhere that shows that this is true for most people.
post #261 of 5259
I also just purchased a H/K 247 and am happy with the sound from this receiver from all sources so far. I do have an issue with getting "copy-protection" warning screens when I attempt to watch some comcast on demand stuff as well as from watching some dvd's from my 360? all sources input to the h/K over component and out to projector (Mitsuhd1000) over component as well. Once the message appears I will either have to turn off the receiver or the source to get it to view properly, and some content will just not work at all. I have everything outputting 720p. I purchased a HDMI cable long enough to reach my projector and used that as my "out" with all the other sources still "in" via component, and so far so good. the problem dvd's and comcast video now seem to play just fine? What do you think the problem over component is? thanks
post #262 of 5259
No reason to go to 720p. Just run component cables from the AVR to the display and you can get 1080i/p that way.

Sanxrd-

I encountered the same problem, but had my 347 switched out for an unrelated reason so I never got a chance to figure out how to get those guards off.
post #263 of 5259
Would it not be best to run 720p, as that is the projectors native res? am I missing something. anybody else encountering this type of issue over component?
post #264 of 5259
Anyone have any luck with the AVR 247 and Oppo 970? I can't seem to get anything other than 2-channel input via HDMI on the 247 even though the same setup worked fine with my previous Marantz 4001 receiver (DD, DTS showed up for DVDs and Multi-channel PCM for DVD-Audio and SACD)?? I also get multi-channel audio fine via HDMI from my Samsung Blu-ray player so I think the receiver is fine.
post #265 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

Anyone have any luck with the AVR 247 and Oppo 970? I can't seem to get anything other than 2-channel input via HDMI on the 247 even though the same setup worked fine with my previous Marantz 4001 receiver (DD, DTS showed up for DVDs and Multi-channel PCM for DVD-Audio and SACD)?? I also get multi-channel audio fine via HDMI from my Samsung Blu-ray player so I think the receiver is fine.

Have you checked Oppo's support info? Seems like there may have been a firmware update that was needed for hi-res audio via HDMI. There's also some very specific settings that need to be made for proper output. Check the Oppo 970 brain dump thread in the SD DVD player section.

-Brent
post #266 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverwolf View Post

Have you checked Oppo's support info? Seems like there may have been a firmware update that was needed for hi-res audio via HDMI. There's also some very specific settings that need to be made for proper output. Check the Oppo 970 brain dump thread in the SD DVD player section.

Thanks. I checked the firmware when I got the Oppo a while ago and it is the newest. Also, the same settings worked with the Marantz receiver so it is very strange...
post #267 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

Anyone have any luck with the AVR 247 and Oppo 970? I can't seem to get anything other than 2-channel input via HDMI on the 247 even though the same setup worked fine with my previous Marantz 4001 receiver (DD, DTS showed up for DVDs and Multi-channel PCM for DVD-Audio and SACD)?? I also get multi-channel audio fine via HDMI from my Samsung Blu-ray player so I think the receiver is fine.

I had the same issue. It returned the Oppo and got PS3. I did all kinds of trouble shooting before returning it. I had issue with Oppo 970. I borrowed my friends 981 and it worked fine on my receiver.
post #268 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam1000 View Post

I had the same issue. It returned the Oppo and got PS3. I did all kinds of trouble shooting before returning it. I had issue with Oppo 970. I borrowed my friends 981 and it worked fine on my receiver.

Oh, crap. Why is there always something that doesn't quite work right with HDMI...
post #269 of 5259
Is there a way to pass-through 480P content from my PS2 to my TV? So far I've tried both HDMI and Component connections and the 247 stretches everything to 16:9. This blows since I like to view all the content in its original aspect ratio.

The OSD doesn't seem to have an option for this. Is anyone else using previous-gen consoles with their 247?
post #270 of 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by bad_pool View Post

Is there a way to pass-through 480P content from my PS2 to my TV? So far I've tried both HDMI and Component connections and the 247 stretches everything to 16:9. This blows since I like to view all the content in its original aspect ratio.

The OSD doesn't seem to have an option for this. Is anyone else using previous-gen consoles with their 247?

Your TV/display should have a setting for aspect.
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