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post #151 of 727
So are you saying that the yamaha rx-A720 at 90wpc should be able to handle the ESL's even though the recommended amp for them is 20-300wpc. I just figured the emo XPA-2 would cover the wattage at 300wpc? Sorry very new to this
post #152 of 727
^ Yes what they are saying is you could drive them with just 20w per channel all the way to 300wpc. You could always just try it with your Yamaha and if you felt like you needed more power go with an external amp. Are you just needing power for 2-channels because the xpa-2 is only a 2-channel amp. You also need to make sure the Yamaha you are buying has preamp outputs or you will not be able to use external amps. Sorry I am not familiar with the A720.
post #153 of 727
DJ James, I heard the same thing,but since the motion 40's are conventional speakers they will be easier to set up. The reason you gravitated towards the 40's is because of the in your face sound. The ESL's aren't like that,they are more open and 3D sounding. Once you get the ESL's home and set up,you will have a big smile on your face. If not,there's always the 30 day return and swap them out for the 40's. I got my ESL's brand new from BB and I heard zero difference from the 1st note til now 2 months later. I also have an Emotiva XPA 3 amp ,hooked it up to the ESL's and heard no difference. Maybe if you crank them up you will,but I never do that. My Onkyo 818 drives them great!
I have my own question for you guys. For surrounds, I have motion 4's in the back,but should I go with FX's for the sides or motion 4's? I was using the 4's at height speakers,but I moved them to the rear and I'm going to buy some motion 2's for the height speakers. What do you guys think?
Edited by Goat1 - 3/1/13 at 8:10am
post #154 of 727
I have to agree, the 40's did seem to be a little brighter (if that's what it was) - while the ESL's seemed to have more depth. I felt as though I could identify the location of each instrument and where excactly the vocals of the singer were coming from. Never heard that from any speaker I ever came across, which drew me back into music.

So the XPA-3 had no effect on the quality of sound on the ESL's. I was interested in them as well. From what were you comparing to? I interested myself into power amps figuring they might enhance the sound quality better than an av receiver? (Particularly music)

If I could skip the amp, a sub-woofer can be a possibility, ones that I have seen in previous post.
Thoughts???
post #155 of 727
Don't have anything yet, but hearing the 40's and the ESL's in BB, I figured the amps help, but then again I never factored positioning and the breathe in period. I did fall in love with them the first time I heard them
post #156 of 727
I honestly didn't hear any difference adding the XPA 3 in. I think it depends on the receiver you have tho. I have the Onkyo 818 and it runs the ESL's like a champ. I'd definitely get a sub 1st. I got a great deal,when I bought my ESL's,BB was having a sale that if you bought the ESL's,you get the wireless dynamo 700 sub for free.. That thing is $699 new.. I also have a power sound XV15 which just wipes the floor with that Dynamo,but its a very nice sub. I'm running both. I would sell the Dynamo tho.
post #157 of 727
Well I just bit the bullet and ordered up a set of motion 12's. can't wait to hook them up to my 7.2 HT setup as the mains. Hope the 4 ohm rating doesn't cause any issues. My Yamaha AVR has a setting for low impedance speakers.
post #158 of 727
Cool,I bet you got those dirt cheap also. They sound pretty good. If your running 7.2 off your Yamaha,it could be a problem,but being that they aren't electrostat's,you will be better off. But your probably going to have to turn the volume up pretty high to get any decent volume with all the speakers going.
post #159 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

Cool,I bet you got those dirt cheap also. They sound pretty good. If your running 7.2 off your Yamaha,it could be a problem,but being that they aren't electrostat's,you will be better off. But your probably going to have to turn the volume up pretty high to get any decent volume with all the speakers going.
Thanks for the reply...The HTR-6090 is a few years old, but is rated at 250 watts at 4 ohms. Will be interesting to see how the new ML mains are balanced in with everything else.
post #160 of 727
Well they arrived safe and sound. Best $450 I've spent in a long time. Can't stop listening... Played Master and Commander today, the battle scenes were incredible. Music is a joy, the depth of field is impressive. My Yamaha is running quite warm, but volume is way more than adequate.
post #161 of 727
Well, I believe the time has come to sell my B&W CM9's. Haven't had them long, but made the mistake of demoing some Electromotion ESL's at Best Buy. Despite being placed right up against the wall and probably with less than stellar electronics, I was blown away. Surprisingly, more so with movies than music. They played a Transformers 2 scene which I'm very familiar with. Holy cow, it was like Optimus Prime and Megatron were breathing in the same room with me. Never heard anything so clear.

Now I need to decide which model to buy. The ESL's sounded great to me and I'm sure I'd be happy with them. But eventually I would like to get a center and keep everything electrostat, would it be weird to get a $3k Stage X with $1k ESL towers? Are the Theos and Ethos worth over 2 to 3 times the price?

I only have two reservations with Martin Logan. One is the smaller sweet spot issue. Is the sweet spot that much bigger with the larger panels on the Theos/Ethos? The second is it seems some people are having problems down the line with their woofers or panels. Should I be worried about this? I don't mind spending $5-6k on speakers...if they last. If I'm going to have to worry about replacing parts down the line I'd rather get the cheaper ESL's.

Also it seems like the Ethos aren't in showrooms or available online as much as the Theos. Is there a reason why? Are they not worth the extra money so they're not as popular?

Lastly, where should I buy? In the B&W world, it seems most people can get 20% off, even at authorized dealers. Is this the same with Martin Logan, or are discounts not common? If that's the case I will probably buy from Magnolia.
post #162 of 727
I looked at the CM9's at BB,for 1K less,its the ESL's all day long. They don't usually stock the more expensive Logan's. The sweet spot isn't that small,don't let people scare you away,and with Movies,its a non issue. I'm using the EM C2 center,sounds excellent. Don't waste 2-3 K on the center. Plus ,go with height speakers also,totally fills the front wall with dialog. I'm using Motion 4's for that ,sounds incredible. I wasn't going to get 20% of anything at BB,but they had a deal going on ,if you buy the ESL's,you got the Dynamo 700 wireless sub for free.. That thing is $699,awesome deal!
post #163 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsmithjack View Post

MLs are high ticket items as the esl are their entry level xstat speakers and most owners of these are professionals and are busy busy busy

I see biggrin.gif

Considering how active B&W thread is, they all must be senior citizens there rolleyes.gif
post #164 of 727
I think B&W has more lines of more affordable speakers than Martin Logan does until a couple years ago. Also,Martin Logan is also more unique,when it comes to their electrostats and the average guy doesn't understand them. Most people gravitate towards box speakers.
post #165 of 727
I think B&W has more lines of more affordable speakers than Martin Logan does until a couple years ago. Also,Martin Logan is also more unique,when it comes to their electrostats and the average guy doesn't understand them. Most people gravitate towards box speakers.
post #166 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat1 View Post

I think B&W has more lines of more affordable speakers than Martin Logan does until a couple years ago.

I agree. The Motion Series changed the game. That series has put ML head to head with B&W's entry level offerings. I was looking at DefTechs and B&Ws, but went with the Motion series as a better value for me.
post #167 of 727
I had the def tech bp 8060's,looked and demo'd the CM9's and the ML EM ESL's won. I like the punchy sound of the center channel C2's motion tweeter and I use Motion 4's for height speakers.. They just have a nice clear punch to the sound which I like. The 8060's and CM9's had metallic sounding of a tweeter that I didn't like. Just too bright.. The logan's don't have that problem.
post #168 of 727
I gotta say, walking into a BB Magnolia section and looking at the ML for the first time, I wasn't particularly fond of the look. Thinking the sound was coming from a fraction of what normal tower speakers were. At least time went on to do a little investigating to understand how brilliant these speakers are. I've had mine for a week and they do perform great, I also purchased the Onkyo 818, unfortunately BB was becoming too anal and couldn't come down in price a bit for their Yamaha 2020, not even for the demo. 818 works pretty well, cheaper and THx2 certified, just wanted a Yamaha for the history that I've had with my previous receiver. The 818 is doing the job, played Tron on Blu-ray and it blew me away, the sound effects and the scene with Derezzed playing in the I was background was EPIC. The ESL's were brought for music quality, but they handle movies and games WAY better than I could've imagined. I live in a apartment and ordered a Bic PL-200, but I'm wondering if I got more than I bargained for with the bass that's going to come thinking the ESL's couldn't output enough bass for myself. Great so far.
post #169 of 727
^^ I agree. Everyone says Martin Logan is for music but I actually found it to be a better upgrade over box speakers with movies. Dialog is clear, sounds such as gravel, gun shots, explosions, metal on metal, etc seem crisper.
post #170 of 727
Played Battlefield 3 on the PS3 and the gunshots, shotguns, explosions were pretty much rockin my house. I have at least a five speaker hook up so far, but I've switched back and forth on the dialog output from center to ML's, booth work lovely as I'm experimenting with the different settings of the 818.
I found 10awg wire on amazon by KunKonceptz, I believe that's the company, didn't want to push for 8awg even though the guy said the lower the better. But the 10awg works lovely for it's price. I didn't want to get anything Monster, just overpriced hype, IMO.
post #171 of 727
Funny, my 8 gauge knukoncepts just arrived a couple days ago. Now just waiting on the Theos to come in...
post #172 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Graham View Post

Played Battlefield 3 on the PS3 and the gunshots, shotguns, explosions were pretty much rockin my house. I have at least a five speaker hook up so far, but I've switched back and forth on the dialog output from center to ML's, booth work lovely as I'm experimenting with the different settings of the 818.
I found 10awg wire on amazon by KunKonceptz, I believe that's the company, didn't want to push for 8awg even though the guy said the lower the better. But the 10awg works lovely for it's price. I didn't want to get anything Monster, just overpriced hype, IMO.

The 818 is rock solid. Did you run audyssey XT32? Game changer right there.. Watch tv with Dolby Volume on,listen to music with dynamic eq on. You could also try using Dynamic volume for movies and tv,sounds awesome! The 818 is the perfect match with the ML ESL's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubSolar View Post

Funny, my 8 gauge knukoncepts just arrived a couple days ago. Now just waiting on the Theos to come in...

You lucky dog! Let us know how you like them. ML electrostat's sound excellent with movies! They aren't just for music..
post #173 of 727
Joined the club with gloss black Theos:

post #174 of 727
Looks good. You will have many years of enjoyment.

Brad
post #175 of 727
I was looking at some Martin Logan Electrostat ESLs. They really look cool, and the review I read said they sounded great.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/martinlogan-electromotion-esl-speaker-system


However, that review said that Martin Logan recommends the distance from the way to be about .618 times the height of your room's ceiling (roughly 5 ft away from the wall in a 8ft tall room). That is REALLY far into the room.

Are all ML Electrostats like that or just the ESL? I notice in the pic above, SubSolar did not place his anywhere near 5 feet away.
post #176 of 727
Goride, check the manual here: http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manuals/manual-electromotion-esl.pdf

"Listening Position
Your speakers should be placed approximately two to three feet from the front wall, the wall in front of the listening position, and about two feet from the side walls."

I have mine about 2.5 feet from the wall. I'm assuming they mean from the front of the speaker (the panel), not the back box. Perhaps 3 to 5 feet may be optimal, but it's not like they go from spectacular to horrible if they are closer to the wall than that. I believe the main reason you want space is because they are dipole so the sound goes in back and reflects off the wall. I was thinking of buying a couple acoustic panels to put behind them. But then again, they sound great now and the manual also says the surface shouldn't be too soft either:

"The front surface, the wall behind the speakers,
should not be extremely hard or soft. A pane
of glass will cause reflections, brightness and
confused imaging. Curtains, drapery and objects
such as bookshelves can be placed along the
wall to diffuse an overly reflective surface. A
standard sheet rock or textured wall is generally
an adequate surface if the rest of the room is not
too bright and hard. Walls can also be too soft.
If the entire front wall consists of heavy drapery,
your system can sound dull. You may hear muted
music with little ambience. Harder surfaces will
actually help in this case."

The Electromotion ESL for $2,200 is a great buy, just do it!
post #177 of 727
I just bought a Pioneer SC-65 Receiver and now looking into speakers. While I would love to own some Martin Logan ESL I'm just not budgeted for the cost. I was thinking the Motion 20 for front left and right would be really good and then possibly the motion 12's for back left right. The room I'm placing them in is basically my basement living room that is 16'X16' (there is actually more room in the back but the bar is there... so I only measured it for speaker room so to speak.)

I would hope that at least the Motion 20's aren't bad at all. I know the Motion 12's are not on the same level but I've always felt depending on the blu-ray you are watching there isn't usually a huge amount of surround acitvity for the back channels. I will obviously buy a M.L. center channel speaker but more concerned over the Left / Right F/B. (also will work on the 9.2 in the future :-)

Anyone happen to own or are familiar with Either version of the Motion 20 or 12 ? Any opinions?

If I can get a great sale price on the Motion 40's I would do 2 of those instead of the Motion 20's
Edited by JackDVD78 - 4/19/13 at 7:31am
post #178 of 727
Is this for mostly movies, mostly music, or equal amounts of both? If mostly for movies, I would consider four Motion 15s and a sub.
post #179 of 727
Equal amounts since I own a bunch of Blu Ray audio discs and the like. and Also CD listening as well. I would say movies mainly.

So you are thinking not to get tower speakers and go with bookshelf instead?
post #180 of 727
Bookshelfs with a sub can get you more bang for the buck, but towers are typically better for music. Of course that's a generalization. Exceptions are plentiful.
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