or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 16

Poll Results: There are many surround speakers out there now, but the ones below would have to get my highest recommendation for the most remarkable & effective design Which of these have you had a positive experience with?

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 25% (20)
    Mirage OMD5 (or any other Mirage Omnipole)
  • 3% (3)
    JBL P520WS / Infinity ES-250 / Infinity Classia C255ES (Dual-monopole for 4 channels from 2 speakers, but also Bipole & Dipole switchable)
  • 26% (21)
    Axiom QS8 or QS4 (Unique Quadpole design)
  • 15% (12)
    Paradigm ADP (Many models available with this design, where the tweeters run Dipole, but the woofers are Bipole)
  • 13% (11)
    Monitor Audio BXFX or RXFX (Single woofer, but the tweeters can switch to either Dipole or Bipole)
  • 10% (8)
    Monitor Audio GXFX (6 drivers, including a ribbon. (Monopole / Dipole switchable)
  • 6% (5)
    KEF 26/2DS (Dipole only, alas... but with two 6.5 inch side woofers and a front-firing 8 inch!!! )
80 Total Votes  
post #451 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

After reading this thread I just placed order for a pair of omd5s for my side surrounds.

They will be used in a (smallish) dedicated HT/music listening room, roughly 12x22x7.5
I can be fairly flexible about the placement.

How high should I place them?

I currently run a pair of ascend 170se (direct radiators) for side surround. They are positioned slightly behind of MLP and vertically aligned with the front stage speakers with tweeters approx at ear level.
Should I place the OMD-5s higher? Or vertical placement is not as important for omnipolars?

Any feedback is much appreciated.

They're pretty flexible, but each room is a different beast.

I'd suggest starting at ear level, then try moving them up in increments of a foot or so until you're happy with the soundstaging, diffusion and blending with the fronts.
Having them pointed down and perhaps angled inward or toward the front or back may also work nicely.

Let us know how you go! Anyone else care to chime in?
post #452 of 628
thank you for the advise, Electric_Haggis. it would be nice if i could use my existing stands without compromising on SQ.
i'll update you once i settle.
post #453 of 628
Setting up a dedicated HT (12.5' x 20') with two rows of seating (100% movies and HD programming). I ran into the surround (mono, bi, di, omni) problem due to the two rows, and I was wondering if this could be a posibble solution.

Decided:
AVR - Denon AVR 33312CI
L/C/R (x3)= CMT 340 SE behind an AT screen/false wall.
subs (x2) = SVS PC12 NSD

Problem:
was considering linking two mono pairs of HTM 200SE for surround at each row, And then having a another pair of HTM 200SE for rears. Then there was a discussion about problems linking the surrounds, and the clutter of 6 speakers that close to the rear wall.

Solution?
I have seen a lot of great reviews of the Mirage OMD5 on here but not much discussion regarding the Mirage OMD-R. I love the look of the OMD-R and am wondering if this will work mounted between the first and second row, and then useing the HTM 200's for rear surrounds to finish the 7.2.

Is the OMD-R a good fit for this set up?

Here's a sketch of the room with the screen wall pulled back. Please let me know what you think or what might be a better option.

Thanks,
Pat
LL
post #454 of 628
Hi,say thanks for all in this old threads for over 5 years! And it's happy to see the thread is continued after I read all 16 pages with 2 hours.

Why I took so much time for this thread?As I had question.I found this topic when I searched the answer for this reason:
If I use a pair of dipole in wall surrounds for side use,but install them in ceiling on the top of the sofas,but not on side wall.........Can I install like this way?Is it absolutely wrong?



I can't confirm if the images can be shown,so I describe some details here too:

The living room is a open area,22L 16.5W 8-9H,mergered from two rooms. There is a 5ft loading bear wall in 3/5 of the room by right side.The sofas is the main listening area in the front area,and the seats behind a work desk is the back second zones.The ceiling was also divided into two part as the loading structures in the line of loading wall.So,if I want to install the LRS-IW in the ceiling,I have to install them at the front or behind of the loading structures(the ceiling's low areas).

I want to build a 7.2 AV system:
The front speakes:a pair of Artison LR Marsterpiece.
The side surrounds: a pair of Artison LRS IW. Dipole mode.
The back surrounda: my old monopole shelf speakers
Sub:two Artison RCC300 subwoofers with a amp
Receiver:Intergra 70.3

My puzzles and questions:
1.Can I install the dipole IW side surrounds in Ceilng?But not on the side wall in null position.The Artison said theri IW LRS can be installed IW or IC.
2.For the exact or 'right' postion of the dipole side surround speakers,which opinions was right:the dipole side surrounds should be put a few front to the listening area as the dipole speakers' specifications;just like the normal side LRS,just install by the side of the listening area in null position,or a little behind less 20 degree.Which is right?
3.If install the dipole LRS-IW in ceiling,how to set the position? 6-8ft away? on the top of the listeners? Or fronter,behinder? If not,just install on side wall.Can I intall dipole on wall LRS at the asymmetric position in the images?
4.Artison's subs are special.For my room,a RCC600(equal to a 13' sub) or two RCC300,which is the better choice?And how to postion the sub?

The Artison's products were not the U L T I M A T E surrounds.I do hope everybody can talk about those speakers freely.I select it as it fit to my PDP,and I can get it easily.
In China,IW speakers just runed in the eyes of the users and fans in recent years.The selections was in narrow range.And the price of HT IW speakers are very high here(much higher than USA),although most of these speakers are made in China and we have a much lower salaries.

My English is poor.I hope I express my meaning accurately.Hope your respone.
Thanks!
post #455 of 628
Hello to you all
I am buying new speakers for my PC. I want 5.1. I will use it mainly for watching movies and sometimes playing some music and a little gaming. Now I have 3 choices 1. Edifier s550 for 435 (568$) 2. Logitech z-5500 for 389 (508$) 3. Logitech z906 for 288 (376$). Now can anyone tell me which is better, I only have this 3 choices. I want a bass that I can fell, and I want a loud set. Now I have Logitech x-540 they are good but not enough loud and clear. Please help.
Thanks
post #456 of 628
I think I may have to place an order for the Mirage OMDRs. With 5000 cubic feet, they seem like a good choice. More than I wanted to spend, but an unlikely upgrade candidate.
post #457 of 628
Hello,

I am curious what you guys normally use to evaluate surrounds?
Specifically if you prefer di(/bi/tri/omi)-poles, what movies and, ideally, specific moments in the movies, that in your opinion do not sound right with direct radiators?

thank you in advance
post #458 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

Hello,

I am curious what you guys normally use to evaluate surrounds?
Specifically if you prefer di(/bi/tri/omi)-poles, what movies and, ideally, specific moments in the movies, that in your opinion do not sound right with direct radiators?

thank you in advance

You don't want your surrounds to distract you from what is in front of you. The speakers should disappear, but not the audio. You should be encompassed with the audio, completely drawn into it all.

I don't think I answered your question, because I don't think there is a movie that represent the effect to distinguish between direct and pole speakers.
post #459 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

Hello,

I am curious what you guys normally use to evaluate surrounds?
Specifically if you prefer di(/bi/tri/omi)-poles, what movies and, ideally, specific moments in the movies, that in your opinion do not sound right with direct radiators?

thank you in advance


I use film material that I'm familiar with, including films that I've seen theatrically.
I work in post production, so I also use films and commercials that I've heard at the mixing studio / mixing theatre.

There's no shortage of surround-heavy Hollywood films of course, with Daredevil, Batman Forever, Casino Royale, Star Wars, Fight Club, and anything from Pixar providing good test material.

Always good to have Dolby/DTS/THX trailers on hand, most of which can be found here...
http://www.demo-world.eu/


It's not so much a question of direct radiators "not sounding right".
Indeed, I'm now using direct-firing studio monitors for rear surrounds (In order to match my KRK Rokit 10-3 front trio). But I'm still using bipoles at the sides, and wish KRK made bipoles.

The thing is, having bi/tri/quad/omnipole surrounds simply gives you a greater spread of sound, as well as minimising distraction from the nearest speaker.
This more closely mimics the effect of multiple surrounds in a theatre - Especially if you're only running 5.1.


Just think of it as an alternative to having a dozen surround speakers in your loungeroom !
post #460 of 628
Thank you for the replies.

I think the trailers maybe exactly what I was looking for.

thanks again.
post #461 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaszm View Post

Hi,say thanks for all in this old threads for over 5 years! And it's happy to see the thread is continued after I read all 16 pages with 2 hours.....


...I want to build a 7.2 AV system:
The front speakes:a pair of Artison LR Marsterpiece.
The side surrounds: a pair of Artison LRS IW. Dipole mode.
The back surrounda: my old monopole shelf speakers
Sub:two Artison RCC300 subwoofers with a amp
Receiver:Intergra 70.3

My puzzles and questions:
1.Can I install the dipole IW side surrounds in Ceilng?But not on the side wall in null position.The Artison said theri IW LRS can be installed IW or IC.
2.For the exact or 'right' postion of the dipole side surround speakers,which opinions was right:the dipole side surrounds should be put a few front to the listening area as the dipole speakers' specifications;just like the normal side LRS,just install by the side of the listening area in null position,or a little behind less 20 degree.Which is right?
3.If install the dipole LRS-IW in ceiling,how to set the position? 6-8ft away? on the top of the listeners? Or fronter,behinder? If not,just install on side wall.Can I intall dipole on wall LRS at the asymmetric position in the images?
4.Artison's subs are special.For my room,a RCC600(equal to a 13' sub) or two RCC300,which is the better choice?And how to postion the sub?

The Artison's products were not the U L T I M A T E surrounds.I do hope everybody can talk about those speakers freely.I select it as it fit to my PDP,and I can get it easily.
In China,IW speakers just runed in the eyes of the users and fans in recent years.The selections was in narrow range.And the price of HT IW speakers are very high here(much higher than USA),although most of these speakers are made in China and we have a much lower salaries.

My English is poor.I hope I express my meaning accurately.Hope your respone.
Thanks!

1. You can put them anywhere, really. But having them in ceiling may well be a noticeable compromise. Best thing is to test out by having some friends hold them in place while you listen.

2. Again, you can get away with having them anywhere, but ideally with dipoles, you should be in the null zone - That means, to the sides of the listening position. Having them in front or behind kind of defeats the purpose.
Have a google on dipole speakers and you'll see how they work.

3. You just measure from the speaker (wherever it is) to where your head will be in the listening position. End of story. Audyssey will work this out anyway, but it's good to measure so you can check it's right.

4. Hard to say. Not really the right thread for that question, but in general two subs are better than one for a more balanced output throughout the room.
post #462 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jes3287 View Post

I think I may have to place an order for the Mirage OMDRs. With 5000 cubic feet, they seem like a good choice. More than I wanted to spend, but an unlikely upgrade candidate.

Sounds like a safe bet. Probably not as diffuse as the OMD5's (anyone?), but wall-mountable.
Let us know how you go...
post #463 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

Thank you for the replies.

I think the trailers maybe exactly what I was looking for.

thanks again.

No worries. Loads and loads of great test material there.
The Dolby "Canyon", "Train (long)", "Stomp" and "Rain" trailers have always been favourites.

Dolby Canyon is especially good for testing surround panning. Beautiful.
Using IIx Movie, it also matrixes very well out to 7.1

Here's the site again, for others...
http://www.demo-world.eu/

Also, discovered more here...
http://www.demolandia.net/

...including new 7.1 trailers...
http://www.demolandia.net/vob-traile...al/page-6.html
post #464 of 628
I was reading first page and last four pages. All great info!!! I am looking into getting a house soon. So I am just speaker browsing. I narrowed speakers down to

axiom
aperion
decware
b@w
BIC
salk
paradigm
zu audio
tekton

I already own a HSU vtf4 sub with turbo. The question that I have is this. Tekton has some great towers, but I do not see them making centers. From reading on this post, some people mix and match, but I thought that was a BIG no-no? If you can, how do you "match" them?
Second Question seems like a mixed reaction too. I always thought bookshelf was the way to go for surrounds. Now, with bi/di and quads, etc... seems that is the new thing. Correct? So if I get axiom qs8 get 1, 2 pairs for surrounds. Right?
What about the 9 speakers for Dolby Z? Keep the trend going?

thanks peeps!

E9
post #465 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by easye9inches View Post


Second Question seems like a mixed reaction too. I always thought bookshelf was the way to go for surrounds. Now, with bi/di and quads, etc... seems that is the new thing. Correct? So if I get axiom qs8 get 1, 2 pairs for surrounds. Right?
What about the 9 speakers for Dolby Z? Keep the trend going?

To stay on topic, I'll answer the 2nd question.
Bi/dipole speakers aren't so much the new thing, as quite an old thing.
THX started recommending dipoles back in the 90's I believe.

Yes, get two pairs.
I'm a huge fan of 7.1 over 5.1, provided you can make it work in your room.
I'm yet to hear a 5.1 mix that doesn't matrix seamlessly into 7.1

As for 9.1 and 11.1, I'm yet to be convinced....
post #466 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

No worries. Loads and loads of great test material there.
The Dolby "Canyon", "Train (long)", "Stomp" and "Rain" trailers have always been favourites.

Dolby Canyon is especially good for testing surround panning. Beautiful.
Using IIx Movie, it also matrixes very well out to 7.1

Here's the site again, for others...
http://www.demo-world.eu/

Also, discovered more here...
http://www.demolandia.net/

...including new 7.1 trailers...
http://www.demolandia.net/vob-traile...al/page-6.html

this is great stuff, hugely helpful.

thank you very much
post #467 of 628
thanks for the reply electric!
post #468 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

1. You can put them anywhere, really. But having them in ceiling may well be a noticeable compromise. Best thing is to test out by having some friends hold them in place while you listen.

2. Again, you can get away with having them anywhere, but ideally with dipoles, you should be in the null zone - That means, to the sides of the listening position. Having them in front or behind kind of defeats the purpose.
Have a google on dipole speakers and you'll see how they work.

3. You just measure from the speaker (wherever it is) to where your head will be in the listening position. End of story. Audyssey will work this out anyway, but it's good to measure so you can check it's right.

4. Hard to say. Not really the right thread for that question, but in general two subs are better than one for a more balanced output throughout the room.

Thanks!It is really not a easy work for the position.At last,I have to set the two side dipole surround in ceiling,as I can not put the speaker wires to other position invisiblely.I asked local dealers of Artison,they said their IW SRS can be set in ceiling as their special design.I can not test as the fitting-out work is continuing.
I do hope to set two subs if my budget is enough.Thanks again and kind regards.
post #469 of 628
should i mount these to sides of wall? Can I do a 7.1 in this room with two speakers behind and overhead? Currently using Optimus LXII on sides. Thanks.
LL
LL
LL
post #470 of 628
Just finished installing 2 wall mounts for 2 Klipsch WB-14 Icon Speakers.

They sound amazing.

But one of the speakers seems to be causing a 'reverb' type of noise in the wall it is mounted to.

I was listening to music and could not hear it, but when I was watching last nights episode of Game of Thrones - on scenes that were loud or intense - I could hear the noise.

Does anyone know of a good way to prevent this?

Would doing something along the lines of taking some Dynamat and putting it between the speaker and the wall help?

Or would the only way to truly prevent it be to get a speaker stand / or put it on a shelf?

Thanks for any help / or input.
post #471 of 628
I'm trying to decide what to do for surrounds in my room but I have one side that's really tough for placement and I'm wondering which direction I should go. I've attached a rough diagram of the room to assist. Basically, I'm considering buying some used Paradigm Studio ADPs and wondering if they may work on the rear wall since I'm missing one side wall (open to the kitchen and breakfast area). Because I also have a series of windows along the rear wall, this would result in one side of each ADP firing directly at, and about 4 inches away from, the small side wall. Is this workable, or am I more likely to be happy with a direct radiator or one of the mirage omnipoles directed out of the corner. Obviously this isn't ideal, but what do you guys think?

601
post #472 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplestallion View Post

I'm trying to decide what to do for surrounds in my room but I have one side that's really tough for placement and I'm wondering which direction I should go. I've attached a rough diagram of the room to assist. Basically, I'm considering buying some used Paradigm Studio ADPs and wondering if they may work on the rear wall since I'm missing one side wall (open to the kitchen and breakfast area). Because I also have a series of windows along the rear wall, this would result in one side of each ADP firing directly at, and about 4 inches away from, the small side wall. Is this workable, or am I more likely to be happy with a direct radiator or one of the mirage omnipoles directed out of the corner. Obviously this isn't ideal, but what do you guys think?

I'd probably go with the Mirage OMD5 omnipoles if you're sure you want to go with 5.1 and MUST have the surrounds out that far to the sides.

Personally, I'd try for 7.1, getting either...

* A pair of Infinity / JBL dual-monopoles mentioned earlier on this thread, and on my signature. Ideally set a couple of feet or so closer to the centre.

* Four Mirage OMD5's lined up along the back wall.

Let us know how you go!
post #473 of 628
Haggis,

Any suggestions for the surrounds on my set up? Thanks.
post #474 of 628
I wanted to drop by this thread and say thanks - I replaced my back 4 (surround pair and back surround) with OMD 5. Crossover is around 150 if I recall. My mains are still monster speakers (philharmonic 2 + phil center). Denon 4311 running everything.

I bought them slightly used on fleabay for a song.
post #475 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy07 View Post

Haggis,
Any suggestions for the surrounds on my set up? Thanks.

The answer is yes.
I'd either put the Optimus on the back wall, and get omnipoles for the sides - or much better still, get 4 x omnipoles.

(Oh... and move those fronts out a bit wider! It must sound like mono from back there!!)

Let us know how you go.
post #476 of 628
Will these Paradigm's do well on a rear wall? Appox. 6' from listening area and appox. at 8' in height.

http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/surround-rear/paradigm/monitor-series-7/surround-3

http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/surround-rear/paradigm/monitor-series-7/surround-1

Keep in mind the left speaker will have a reflecting wall to bounce off of. The right speaker will have an open area. Or is there another option for that setup. And all this figures in IF we get the new house.

Jeff
post #477 of 628
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

Will these Paradigm's do well on a rear wall? Appox. 6' from listening area and appox. at 8' in height.
http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/surround-rear/paradigm/monitor-series-7/surround-3
http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/surround-rear/paradigm/monitor-series-7/surround-1
Keep in mind the left speaker will have a reflecting wall to bounce off of. The right speaker will have an open area. Or is there another option for that setup. And all this figures in IF we get the new house.
Jeff

They'd be excellent rears - especially the Surround 3.

Sure, having different side walls ain't ideal - but don't forget you can arrange the Paradigms to fire up and down rather than to the sides.
I'd seriously consider this, especially if you'll also have side surrounds for 7.1 (will you?)
post #478 of 628
I'm builing a house. My HT/Family Room will be 19"L X 15"W X 10'H. My primary use is for movies and TV, although I will play about 10% music. See diagram below for room dimensions and planned speaker placement (one square = 1 sq/ft)... sorry about the pic, I haven't figured out how to do the nice looking computer drawings. smile.gif

I want to complete a 7.1 system:
Center Channel is a Paradigm Studio CC-490 v5 (placed below Panasonic Plasma 65VT50)
The front speakes:are Paradigm Studio 20s.v5 (placed on 26" stands)
The side surrounds: Unknown, but am leaning towards switchable... but am thinking about Paradigm ADP-390 (pretty good price now), the Monitor Surround 1 or 3s, and would keep me in my "Pardigm comfort zone"
The rear surrounds are Studio 10s v5
Sub is a HSU STF-2
Receiver is a Denon 3312ci

Here are my questions and thoughts:
1.The side speakers can be placed in the null position. Should I take a chance on the ADP-390's or the Surround 1 or 3's?... I live in a small town and don't have the luxury of comparing anything of quality.
2.I am planning to mount the rear surround Studio 10's about 6' high in the position shown (110 degrees), slightly pointed downward.
3.I would install the dipole/bipole/monopole in the null position at about 6' high in the position shown.
4.I would appreciate any other thoughts about speaker placement, especially the side surrounds (dipole and/or bipole. or switchable) that have not yet been purchased. In particular, it appears Paradigm has moved to bi-directional from the ADP in an attempt to keep up with changes in current audio according to one review. "Monitor Surround 1 and Surround 3 have replaced the ADP’s of the previous Monitor Series and feature revised design and technology in keeping with the way sound is being mastered and mixed in today’s recording studios." What should I make of that?

448

Thanks!
Edited by Anhydro - 6/30/12 at 11:24pm
post #479 of 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric_Haggis View Post

They'd be excellent rears - especially the Surround 3.
Sure, having different side walls ain't ideal - but don't forget you can arrange the Paradigms to fire up and down rather than to the sides.
I'd seriously consider this, especially if you'll also have side surrounds for 7.1 (will you?)

If we buy this house there would be no side surrounds. Living room opens to the kitchen with a cathedrial (thankfully a small one!) ceiling. So rear surrounds might be my only option.

Jeff
post #480 of 628
Anyone place their side surround speakers at 60-80 degree? How does it sound?
ITU spec states that surrounds for 7 channel setup can be placed between 60-150 degrees. With the side surrounds at 60-80 degree, it'll be closer to the arrangement of Audyssey DSX Front Wide. Problem is I'm not sure if Klipsch WDST design can work out for that placement. What say you?
576
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE?