SURROUND SPEAKERS - Bipole, Dipole, Quadpole, Omnipole... WHICH ONE? - Page 18

Is there another option similar to the Mirage OMD5s? It seems these are starting to be hard to get as they are being phased out.

Yet another setup question.

12 feet listening distance from the F/C speakers. Supporting two listening positions (large easy chairs), the rears of which are up against an open walk way access area leading to a door. No option to hang any surround speakers. Left side is up against a picture window with curtains. Right side is open to another walk way, with the wall 8 feet further away from the listening area than the window on the left.

I'm using a 6.1 setup, where the listening row is:
SL --> 3 feet --> 1st position --> 2 feet --> SB --> 2 feet --> 2nd position --> 3 feet --> SR.

Surrounds are cheap JBL surround monopoles. SB is on a stand; SL/SR are on bookcases. All are one foot above and one foot behind the listening positions, with the sides firing directly at each other and the SB firing straight ahead.

I use DD PLIIx Music when playing DD EX sources, as this spreads the SB channel to the two side speakers. As of result, any sounds directed to SB feel like they are coming from directly behind each of the two listening positions. Sounds directed solely to the two side surrounds are still pretty directional.

I have an 2011 model AVR that is Audyssey enabled. Timber matching the surrounds is not an issue.

Question is: by using DD PLIIx Music for movie playback, have I mitigated the setup restrictions as best I can for achieving surround effects? Or would dropping to a 5.1 setup, with the two side surrounds located in the same place as they are currently, and then upgrading to omnipole surround speakers give me the same surround effects, but with less localization of the surround channels?

jdg
Edited by JohnDG - 10/18/12 at 6:38am

just cast my vote with my wallet. 4 JBL P520WS's for $370 on the 'bay. Starting with dipole settings on the sides, and bipole on the rears, which are almost on top of the 2nd row of seats. Love the fact that phase is switchable........we'll see what happens.

I substituted the OS3 for the OMD since they were about half the price at the time. I'm pleased with the sound, but wish I could match the look of my rosewood fronts. The specs between the two aren't very different.

I'm trying to decide between bipole and direct radiating speakers for my side and back surrounds in a 7.1 system. My front 3 are from the Paradigm Signature series. I'm curious as to what others have used in a set-up similar to the layout below, with the sides and rears about 6.5 to 7 feet from the floor.

I'm looking at two rooms... one a dedicated theater room 17'X20'X9' (acoustically treated, sound isolated, and two rows of seats) and the other a multi-function family room about 20'X20'X10'. Thanks!

P


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Wow the above got cut off when uploading to AVS from my iphone in a restaurant....

Ok - This might help you Anhydro, posted in this thread Feb-2012.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/874378/surround-speakers-bipole-dipole-quadpole-omnipole-which-one/390#post_21695055

Hi All,

Question on surrounds for my secondary setup in my living room. This room is 17x13 and has an open space (pictured below) behind the seating area. This room will be almost entirely TV/sports/Movie oriented as I have a dedicated setup for music. I will be getting the Onkyo 818 for this room (XT32). I have always been a direct fire guy due to priority for MC music. With this setup however, I am heavily considering bi-pole or omnipole for surrounds. Would love some suggestions. I have noticed that the Mirage OM5 is no longer available. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

do anyone here toe in your side surrounds?.

or straight forward at each  other?. I don't think cinemas toe their surrounds 

I tilt them down towards the listening area, pointing them at the person at the opposite end of the couch (so that listeners at each end of the couch aren't overwhelmed by the nearby speaker). I don't need to toe them in horizontally since the are almost directly to my sides (±82°). The front baffles of many commercial surround speakers are already sloped to aim the drivers down towards the audience.

thanks so much for the reply.

I have them toe in slightly according to dolby suggestion. But i guess i can try them both way's :)

Hi guys,

I have a similar problem with the surrounds as Ratboy had and need some urgent advice! You can see below the room layout my living room and I was planning to get bipole/dipole speakers however I am not quite sure if they would work effectively due to none existence of back wall ( ı mean far away from the rear speakers) so what would you guys advice?

I called the Mirage customer support line to inquire about a newer model of the omd-5s. The rep told me that Mirage has been fully absorbed into Jamo and the Omd-5s will not be replaced. He did say; however, that Jamo is using the omnipolar concept in its 360 series speakers, with the Jamo S35 being the closest cousin in size and specs to the Omd-5. Unfortunately, the S-35 is hideous.

Great info in this thread. You guys have helped me decide to stick with my bipoles for my sides in my new house. I'm still confused as to what to do with the rears in my future 7.1 setup.

Here's a view of my room when looking from my media wall. I basically don't have a back wall since my seating position is too far from the back of the room. My current plan is to go with direct firing speakers mounted on the walls. You can see the holes for the future speaker wire wall plates in the picture. Is that the way i should go or should I use bipoles back the there too? Thanks.


Edited by BentZero - 12/30/12 at 7:35am

Hi,
I'm currently upgrading my 5.1 system and just discovered this thread. I bought a pair of MA BX2 and a MA BXCenter, and about to buy MA BXFX for surrounds - but now I found in the thread poll that BXFX has got no vote. Is it because nobody has listened to them, or because you all have hated them?
Also, this will be my first experience with dipole/bipole surrounds (instead of normal speakers) - are they as bad as I hear for music? I listen mostly symphonic, but occasionally also some rock.

The BXFX will be placed on the side walls, right on the lines where they meet the back wall, and my listening position will be very close(if not leaned) to the back wall. I do watch movies too and so wouldn't want to use MA BX1 as surrounds, but if your musical listening experience would ask for it, I would prefer them instead of the BXFX.

My room is 13.5 square meters (probably 40 square feet) and I intend to match them with a Yamaha 673 receiver, and a cheap Pioneer bluray player (probably 150K). Do you think this speaker/receiver choice would be a bit overkill for a rather small room like mine and I should get some smaller speakers and a lower range receiver (like Yamaha 473), or the chosen setup would be fine?

Thank you.

P.S. I'm on the verge of reading the thread so probably part if not all of my questions will be answered. Still: I have the option of choosing Onkyo 609 as receiver - do you think that, paired with the MAs and the Pioneer BR player, the sound will be brighter/harsher than with Yamaha 673?

PS2: Apparently, not quite. Oh and just to rectify the room dimensions: it's 12x10 feet.
Additionally, is there anything wrong if I will put/hang my front speakers higher on the front wall, the left being just behind and above the TV? So their position will be about 2 feet above my ears (from the listening position). Still, the centre speaker will remain hanged on the same wall, in the middle of front speakers, right at my ear level (from listening position). As about the surrounds (BXFX), they will be positioned as I have noted, at about 2 feet above ear level (listening position, on a couch between them).

So the fronts and the surrounds will be at about same hight, only the centre will be about 2 feet lower. Anything wrong with that? Is it really advisable to keep the fronts and the centre speakers at the same level? Also: if the fronts need be directed towards my ear level, I can raise their back a bit (maybe 1/2 inch) until they point to my face.
Edited by alexandru27 - 1/2/13 at 9:53am

I've changed my mind, returned the MA's and chosen a cheaper package (Yamaha 475 & 5.0 Heco Victa Prime, plus a BR player). Apart from money saving, I think the MA's were too massive for my tiny room.

The only problem now will be that Heco speakers are back ported for bass, so the surrounds (which will inevitably be placed very close to the back/side wall) will have the bass diminished. But I guess I can live with that...

Also, I hope the 473 will have the power to drive those Heco's (the fronts can be bi-wired, but unfortunately this receiver cannot do that - it's 5.1)

After reading everything I had settled on bipole for my surrounds.

I installed them and tried them in both modes and found that I prefer dipole.

That's what ears are for :-)

Joel

PS - I think they sound great for music as well. No complaints.

Hi,
changed mind again, got back to Yammy RX-673 andthe 5.0 MA Bronze pack.
As about the BXFX: I've read some half of the entries in this thread, very interesting stuff. So I'd have to hang them either on the side walls, or on the back wall. I listen 50/50 to music/movies. I do prefer listening to multichannel music (stereo it's not so good amplified by this Yammy).
So, if I decide to hang them on the back wall, I should put them on bipole, and if I choose the side walls, on dipole, right?
Here's a picture of listening position configuration.

Having read all but some 4-5 pages of this thread, I think I''l start by drilling holes on the side walls, and listen the BXFX both on dipole and bipole modes. Then I'll drill holes in the back wall (at about the same hight as those in the side walls - about 2 feet above listening position - or a bit higher, what do you think?) and hang the BXFX on those, to see the difference, especially in bipole mode.

I take it I shouldnt bother to buy another pair of BXFX in order to have them hanged in both positions, so i could enjoy a sort of 7.1 - or am I wrong?

Oh and one more thing: what if I hang them (somehow) right on the corners (that would solve at least the wire visibility issue - being less obvious along the corner line) - instead of the former home cinema surround speakers that are visible in the posted picture?
Would this position affect sound quality? They would be facing the centre of the room/centre speaker.
Edited by alexandru27 - 2/15/13 at 6:58am

Anybody?...

With a small room like yours 10 x 12 feet I'd do 5.1 and give up on 7.1

Try in some of your possible locations with temp mtg, seems the back wall may work best for you instead of side wall.

Does this layout guide help?


Wires, you can run your wires at baseboard and then up the inside of walls, depends on if you have fire blocking between the studs.
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Edited by mtbdudex - 2/17/13 at 8:14am

Thanks, not of much help as those are totally different positions as compared to mine.
I'm not sure I am going to go with an inside-wall solution for the wires.
Today I have drilled holes in the side walls, unfortunatelly in the left one I've reached something hard with the drill and had to stop. I'll have to change the position a bit, or put them on the back wall.

My point was making sure you understood the baseline for 5.1 and 7.1 speaker locations, from a viewpoint the mixing is also done with understanding they will be somewhat in/near those locations so @ playback time you hear the surround field as the mixer intended.

I've had to comprimise my family room 5.1 set-up, flipped wall di-poles onto a cross beam firing down, re-wired them as bi-poles because the null did not work in a open room.
The surround field is actually pretty decent now.

(wow, above pict is 5+ years old now, looking at the picture on fireplace mantle just realized how the 3 kids have grown)

Good luck on your install and set-up.

Congratulations for your kids.

I was aware of dolby requirements for speaker placement. The problem is that the fronts will have to be placed wider, that is closer to the side walls, so a bigger diastance from the centre speaker.
The fronts will have between them just a slight smaller distance, as compared to the distance between the surrounds (side walls hanged)

Unfortunatelly some additional problem arised from the fact that I can't seem to drill deep enough holes neither for the centre and right front speaker. I might have to choose another location for the fronts - that is to put them on shelves higher on the front wall. But like that they wont be in line anymore with the centre. Also, I dont think I will be able to position the fronts leaned forward, so that they face the listening position (couch on the opposite wall)

Basic problem is we are putting demands onto home design that was not in most of those plans.
It's a paradigm shift that even now has not taken into the mindset of home designers and builders.

Layout stds for kitchen, bath, etc are there.
If you look at guides for family room/living room there aren't std guides to consider 5.1 sound and video...

Good luck on your project.


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You are right.
And thank you, I will let you know about the -sounding - results.

I'm looking fior an in-wall switchable biplole/dipole spaekers for my home theater and my living room. My new home construction is almost finished and I still haven't decided on the surrounds.... I have Paradigm Sigs for the LCR in each room. Each system will be used primarily for HT. I would very much appreciate any recommendations. Thanks!

My HT build thread, with some info on my Living Room, is here... http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426275/anhydro-no-sweat-theater-build-the-musings-of-an-armchair-quarterback#post_22620292

P.S. My default solution is the Atlantic Tech IWTS-30 SR, but they are not sealed and don't come with back boxes. I would like one or the other.

Hey all,

very interesting thread.

I have few questions for my setup.
I have installed audiocables for 7.1 surround sound in my new home. But due to the layout of the living room, the surround speakers on the sides arent placed correctly.
The size of the living room is 8 metres by 5 metres. Thats 26ft by 16ft. The red squares in the picture are cables installed for speakers at about 5ft high.
The ceiling is 2m50 high so about 8ft. The adjacant space is dinnertable and kitchen and is completely open, 7m by 5 meters or 22feet by 16 feet.

What kind of speakers would be best to use for side surrounds and rear surrounds. Dipole or bipole or something else??

i prefer not to move the couch forward since im projecting my image on the wall where fronts, sub and center are located. Couch is located at about 15 feet, 4m50 from projected wall. The rear surrounds at about 11,5 feet, 3m50 from couch. The side surrounds about 8feet, 2m50 from couch. The cables for all surrounds are located at a little more the 4feet, 1m25 height in the wall. I can use stands or wall mount for the surrounds

2 months later , how is your project going?


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