Onkyo 805 audio delay / lip synch problem - Page 5

Is there external device with HDMI-in/HDMI-out that could add 20-60ms delay to video (without any other video processing) available anywhere? Could one use external HDMI switch or something like that for this purpose?

In this way those normally suffering from this lipsync error in tv/movies/videos could plug in their devices to onkyo and from onkyo to their display thru this external hdmi box and there would again be point in using per-device settings of audio delay etc...

I know they make external video processors/scalers that are able to delay video, such as the DVDO devices, but they are ridiculously expensive (about as much as the 805 or more).

Keep in mind though that adding a video delay is not a total solution and only helps when you are dealing with non interactive activities such as watching videos and tv. Adding a video delay will make gaming even worse.

Looks like I have to take mine back. I just can't get over the lip sync issues. I was watching The Office last night and it was really bad. HD-DVD's seem okay but perhaps not completely *solid.* Xbox360 seems less in synch with the audio also. It's frustrating because the *805* seems perfect to me in every other way. It's a shame that such a basic issue was overlooked. I guess I'm going to try a Denon 3808CI(almost twice the price) or a 2808CI(not really enough HDMI inputs) and hope the lip synch isn't an issue. Do you think the next generation of Onkyo's will suffer from this?

What was your setup?

I replaced my Onkyo tx-ds777 with the 805. I have a Sanyo PLV-Z2(720p) an Inday component switcher. Scientific Atlanta hd cable box(not a DVR). For the cable I'm running component from the cable box through the component switcher, and then digital coax to the receiver. I've adjusted the farthest speaker to be 30 ft, and changed the delays for all the sources to be 0ms. It seemed to help, but the lip sync still doesn't seem completely synced. Hd-dvd seemed pretty good. Xbox 360 is off, and cablle is hit and completely miss. I haven't yet tried the lip synch feature, but I don't expect it to help based on what I've read. Hopefully the Denons are better, there at least seems to be less complaining of it. It just kills me to pay twice the price for the same features. Thanks.

The denon 3808 actually has less features and I still believe there is complaining about lip sync.

I am sorry to hear that you need to return your system. I hope you have better luck with whatever you decide to buy.

These systems may work differently depending on what country they were manufactured in.

Could you let us know where your 805 was assembled?

Jim

I was finally able to get in touch with Onkyo support. The rep said he had not heard of this issue before. He claimed that the receiver should correct any av sync skew due to the HDMI 1.3 spec and told me to bring it in to a local warranty center (where I'll need to wait 2-6 weeks for a repair).

I have to say I'm still a bit confused by this whole thing. I too reset my speaker distances to 30' but it still didn't fix things. That's still a workaround hack at best. I'd much prefer that the receiver with all it's processing could output audio and video that were in sync (or at least consistent such that I could easily correct it).

I too experience varying delays depending on the source. HD channels through my Tivo S3 are the worst, with ABC being laughably out of sync. As was mentioned above, the DVD player is much closer to sync but still not quite right.

I'm still a bit confused as to which component is the problem and which component should fix the issues. I've run the S3 directly to my plasma and still seen sync issues. I mentioned that to the Onkyo rep and he said the receiver should still correct them but he was very light on specifics and offered me no troubleshooting steps at all. I'd love to just be able to get a firmware update or even to hear someone knowlegable tell me what's likely going on. So far I've had much better info from this forum then from Onky, Tivo or Comcast.

It does seem that folks using HDMI switchers don't have problems. I'd gladly spend a few bucks to make the issue go away but I don't think I should have to.

One thing the Onkyo rep did mention was to try a reset. I forgot the key sequence but I'm willing to try it before lugging this boat anchor (due to it's weight, not quality - I still haven't given up on it) out to my car.

An unrelated gripe I have is with HDMI cables. The connectors seem terribly designed. The fit isn't tight and the design is such that I don't believe mine will last very long. I could plug-in an RCA cable (or DVI for that matter) repeatedly with no fear of it wearing out. I'm worried my HDMI plugs have a very limited lifespan.

What would be such switch? I wouldn't mind inserting one between Onkyo and my projector to add some video delay.

Made in Malaysia. Purchased at Circuit City.

Same here but I have yet to set mine up.

Jim

I had been driving myself crazy trying to tell whether there was a lip synch issue or not. I watched the concert DVD of Neil Young Heart of Gold last night -- DVD pushing component video to my panasonic 58" 1080p plasma, and digital audio out to my Onkyo.

I was convinced there was lip synch -- video ahead of audio. Finally read this thread and added 20 feet to each of my speaker distance settings (they were all under 10 feet to begin with), and now everything seems spot on! As best as I can judge from watching HD content on my series 3 Tivo, the Neil Young DVD, etc, etc. I'm glad, too, becasue today was my 14-day return at Circuit City...

Thanks to those who recommended the speaker distance tweak -- I think that made all the difference in the world.

There does appear to be some limited lip synch on certain channels/programs on my Tivo, but if some channels are working, I don't think there's anything that can be done about that, so I'm VERY satisfied now. Seriously -- thanks to those (MonkeyGod?) who recommended the distance tweak.

You just f***** up your calibration.

I think, you mixed something up. The 3808 is clearly the one with more features. It has even more features than the 875.

For example: USB, Network, more inputs, second component out etc.

As you can see here: http://www.theosfiles.com/zzz/receiv...vs_3808CI.html

I tested both the Onkyo 875 and Denon 3808 and kept the Denon. There are no sync issues and all my bitstreamed audio tracks from the HD-XE1 wit fw 2.7 are running without any problem. No off sync and no dropouts. I tested DD+, True HD, DTS HD MA & DTS HD HR

No, he didn't. Adding the same amount to all the speaker distances does not affect the filtering that Audyssey puts on the channels. We have that direct from the CTO of Audyssey.

My sync issue is minor, but I'm wondering if the order your components are turned on would help?

Ravenous's comment is OT (in every way) but I will make one note him... most ppl here are getting the 805 for around 600 bones. That places it in a different category then the 3808 when looking at price, thus we expect less features.

Now, please stay on topic... ONKYO 805 ONLY

There were also other than lipsync-errors with Onkyo?

Btw., I still wonder if there is some relatively cheap HDMI-device (switch, splitter, deinterlacer or something like that) which could add some delay as a side-effect? As I don't need realtime-stuff for games and all that, I would happily insert it between Onkyo and my projector.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

If you try the distance "trick", which I plan to do (adding 15ft in my case), do you set the AV Sync setting to 0ms? What have you tried or done?

Well you guys have talked me out of the 805 and back to the 605 (sounds like the 705 has similar issues). I could really have used that extra HDMI input too.

I think you're giving up quite a bit with the 605. My sync issues are minor, and only with some channels on cable. The Audyssey EQ is not as robust on the 605, less power, not THX, fewer inputs, better DACs, etc. I love my 805 and don't have much of a sync issue with DVD, BD or games - just some cable channels. Some channels are dead-on, while others are way off. The same channels are a bit out of sync on another TV in my house too, without an AVR.

I think I've been staring at lips so much, I'm seeing a delay that may not really even be there. I've decided to keep my 805 and live with the couple issues that I think are the fault of my Motorola DVR box (6416).

Blu-Ray and DVD (Panasonic BD30 via HDMI): No issues.
Apple TV streaming (HDMI): No issues.
Wii video game play Component/analog): No issues.

HD cable (HDMI): Only see a noticeable delay with TNT HD (way off) and A&E. ESPN, ESPN2, HDT, MOJO are spot-on.

SD cable (HDMI): No issues.

My 805 was manufactured in Malaysia and purchased at Circuit City.

My center speaker is about 10" below my Panasonic 50" plasma TV, so perceived delay might just be lack of precise localization of my center channel.

When I say "live with", I really only have issues with 2-3 HD cable channels.

I'm mostly concerned with games. While I don't have a game unit now, I have a 3 year old son and intend to keep this unit a long time, so I'm sure I will have a PS4 or XBOX720 or whatever is next at some point.

Are you talking about using a switcher in addition to the 805, or instead of the 805? People that are using an external switcher without the 805 won't have any problem because the switcher isn't doing any audio processing. It should just be a pass-through design. Using a switcher in addition to the 805 shouldn't solve anything, since the switcher isn't processing anything.

Like is mentioned earlier in this thread, the reason for some delay is that the sound has to travel through 3 different processor chips, each adding between 15-20 ms delay to the audio signal. I think someone here actually recorded the delay and came up with a best-case minimum of 47ms. Even without processing the sound, it still has to travel through the circuits that add the delay.

Obviously some TV stations/cable providers have their own problems in addition to the 805 delay.

All my information is from reading and research only, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

I hear you an "watching lips so much I'm immagining a delay". It's taken a bit of enjoyment out of entertainment. I only started noticing this watching ABC shows but now I watch my other channels and DVD's closely and notice a slighter problem there.

The person I reached at Onkyo maintained that the receiver using the HDMI 1.3 spec SHOULD synchronize the signal automatically. That said, this is a tough issue to pin down. Is it the receiver not synchronizing ? Is it the Tivo or Cable signal being bad in the 1st place and the receiver simply is unable to delay the video signal (or have negative audio delay, whatever you want to call it). Of course I just want this all to work. I don't want to have to adjust the sync depending on which channel or source I watch.

I did notice that at least one other HDMI switcher out there has voice sync functionality but is also only able to add audio delay. Seems like this problem hasn't been quite solved yet by AV/Cable companies which of course sucks for us. Does anyone know if the Denon or Sony receivers correct for audio delay ? (that is, video preceeds audio).

I sent my receiver in for warranty repair as the Onkyo support guy requested. I'd be far happier if someone familiar with the internal processing and existing issues with it could update me. I'm not getting any satisfying answers yet.

Keep us posted - this issue is starting to irritate me too, hopefully there is other solution than to get another receiver.

I talked to a friend in the HiFi service business. Apparently lip sync has been an issue with just about every brand and source out there for some time. HDMI 1.3 only takes care of lip sync if the source also supports this so if your source is out of sync, the 905 won't fix that. To clarify, my first issue with lip-sync I now believe is due to my cable feed through Tivo but I'm no closer to solving that one either. It's a much longer delay. Too long to be fixed by setting my speaker distance further away.

The 905 is said to have an additional 40ms delay (according to the creator of this thread) due to Reon processing. I've had no luck getting anyone to give me any indication there's a fix out there for it and a week later my receiver is still sitting waiting to be looked at. I'm still suspicious a repair shop will have an answer for me but I'll let everyone know if and when anything happens.

When I saw the 705/805 I was amazed at all the features that it had for such a low price.. This is it's Achilles' heel though I guess.. To bad because I would be mostly using it to decode games, so any latency is a huge turn off and, in this case, an instant deal-breaker.