Onkyo 805 audio delay / lip synch problem - Page 8

I think this is purely wishful thinking. No one has done any testing to verify this. There are owners with previous firmware versions who don't think they have a problem either but they just haven't specifically tested for it - the problem is there.

I used VCR/DVR in. All 7 speakers were on, measurements were done with right main speaker. I didn't take in to account the possible latency in sound card, since there was no delay when using Pure Audio.

[quote=MonkeyGoD;12573814]As stated in the first page of this thread, using Pure Audio mode and any other audio mode will not get rid of the delay. I have not measured any difference in delay when using Pure Audio or Direct mode.

QUOTE]

I'm with you on this one MG, I see the issue in all modes. I have not used my EE degree in quite a few years so I'll leave the measurements to you. It does seem a little baffling why some user are not seeing this issue. Room acoustics? I have used the optical cable with a HTPC, with PS-3 HDMI both with blue ray and found the delay in all sources. Blu ray appears to be the worst case scenario (don't ask). I really do like this receiver and am agonizing over un-racking. My old Onkyo TX-DS797 Had a firmware issue where the rear surrounds had a ticking issue in 6.1 due to faulty DSP code. Onkyo had a fix out and authorized the repair without question which surprises (disappoints) me now that no one from Onkyo is standing up or at least peeking at these forums and piping up.

This is strange as there was no delay with mine using Pure Audio.

However, when the source is digital there is lip sync issue even with Pure Audio. With analog stereo I'd say pure audio is delay-free. I have Onkyo 805 (EU version) with 1.04 firmware.

So is the general conclusion about this receiver "take it or leave it"?

Hard to comprehend that Onkyo wouldnt have a recall or at least a service bulletin about these units as the problem is so widespread.

Honestly, for me and my uses of the receiver (no gaming, etc.), I've been able to live with the audio delays and lip synch issues. Even though I've verified that the problems exist, I can't notice any lip synch issues in actual usage (maybe I'm lucky that way). And the delays incurred when switching between audilo formats don't bother me in the least. In general, I'm extremely happy with my 805.

I returned mine and bought a Pioneer VSX-94 for a little more (Right around a grand even). A few hundred extra is worth it for me to have a receiver that I am completely happy with.

You guys might want to read this if you haven't already (especially point #3):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12740442

This just reiterates what we've already learned back in September (page 2 of this thread). The disturbing part is that Onkyo have obviously been aware of this issue for some time, yet they don't seem to recognize it as a defect.

Well, I noticed one thing. This Integra 8.8 user seemed to fix his delay/sync problem with firmware upgrade.
(EDIT: Ok, I misread this, he just hooked up his receiver to a computer and the internet. Not sure what that means)


I especially noticed that the DSP versions are the same as in my 805, which has no delay.

As I mentioned, mine was a refurb and apparently has the newest DSP firmware, so perhaps all you 805 lip sync sufferers should just suffer for a week or two without your 805 and send them in for firmware upgrades.

billbillw,
I have the same FW on my onkyo and I do have the delay (it's something I can live with, but I know it's there). I'm not even sure if it is feasible to fix the delay via FW upgrade. The delay is more likely the cause of propagation delay going through 3 DSP chips. Perhaps the only way to fix this delay is to introduce video delay which may or may not be possible.

I've had the 805 a week now and I'm amazed at the sound quality, but absolutely crushed with the audio delay... I've read every tip... nothing solved it and I can’t live with it. I called the service department in Denver today. They told me that as of a week ago, they do have a firmware upgrade for the 805 that does target the sound problem (couldn't tell me what version it would be.) I have 30 days to return the unit, so I'm probably going to try getting it fixed first. Has anyone else done this recently?

I am curious, can anyone tell me how to tell what firmware version I currently have. Is there a sticker on the bottom of the unit... I just don't want to go through the trouble of pulling this monster out of the rack to look if there's another way.

Thanks in advance.

I'm with you. The sound is devine, but the delay is more than just annoying. It makes me feel like I am watching Kung Fu theatre. I had to run an analog cable from my cable box and use direct mode for badly offending channels. problem is, I am selecting the analog feed almost all the time.

I don't think all the DSP chips are completely used up all the time. Processing latency should increase as the load increases, and there should be a user adjustable setting that allows lower latency at the possible chance of an ocassional audio glitch.

This amp sounds SOOOO good, but I may settle on a 605 to avoid the audio delay problem. My wife is threatening divorce. I can't sit in front of the TV without trying to tweak it better!

I haven't heard of any firmware fix yet for the 805 (only for the higher models) but I hope it is true what your service department is saying. Are you going to have to mail it to them or drive there and have it serviced?

As for how to get to see what firmware you have, try reading this person's posts which details on how to do this. I haven't tried it myself though:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1631

I jusr ordered Yamaha RX-V3800 and I'll do some more through testing between 805 and 3800 regarding audio delay. It seems that my projector (PLV-Z5) is "too fast" with my very modest video processing settings, especially when sending 720p originating from source (PS3, HTPC). This is probably why I've been so sensitive for this issue. There has been similar discussions at Yamaha thread, even if in smaller scale (20-50% delay of what I have with my Onkyo).

MonkeyGoD, thanks for the link. I found that my unit already has firmware v 1.06. So is there a 1.07 out there now?

I didn't mention the other day that I did wait on hold for 30 mins getting a hold of Onkyo Customer Service, and spoke to someone that had a hard time speaking English. I explained my problem to which he responded that I just "perform the RESET"... which should fix it... right. I asked him if the Audio Delay was a known problem... apparently this is the first they've heard of it. I asked which firmware version they were up to on the Onkyo 805 when he suggested that I call the Service Center in Denver. A little puzzled, I asked him, "Wait... you're Onkyo, wouldn't you guys be telling the Service Center which firmware version is available?" He responded, "Yes... but you will have to call them." I started getting the feeling that maybe he was just having a hard time understanding what I was asking and would just take my chance talking to someone stateside. This is when I spoke to someone in Denver.... which when I asked which firmware version fixed the problem, she suggested I call Onkyo Customer Service. Oh, the circle of life!

Anyway... So I will be mailing my 60+ pound receiver to Denver. I pay for shipping up, but since this considered a factory recall, they will pay for shipping back. I was told to expect a 2 week turnaround.

I will be sure to post back with the results.

As far as I know (well who really knows since there is no formal announcement).. okay as far as I can glean from reading many threads the 1.06 is the latest version shipping. So I don't see how sending your brand new unit to a service center will help. I'd suggest confirming what version they will install before you ship it out (and tell us what they say!)

I can't say how disappointed I am in this whole audio-delay issue. I was only waiting on my local Fry's to get more units in on the 20th to pick up an 805. Now it looks highly doubtful I will. It seems most of the AVR's Onkyo is producing in 2007 have this problem, at least everything from the 705 and up. The best I can make out, the problem is fundamental to the architecture of the signal processing. Even if you could re-write the software there is only so much optimization you can squeeze out of it. Unless they had built in some baseline delay that they are now taking out. But we hear from owners with v1.06 805's that still have the problem which leads me to believe there is no software fix. And any hardware fix would be so expensive I doubt it would happen, hence they ignore the problem until they can ship the 806 and I'm not about to wait. True that some do not hear the delay, I chalk this up to differences in sources or just not being sensitive to it, those using DirecTV sat boxes it seems are hit the hardest and that is me. And maybe as some are sensitive to rainbows in DLPs and some aren't, maybe some just don't process the delay in their brain, or their brain adjusts up to a point.

I don't feel comfortable giving my hard earned money to a company that knowingly ships defective hardware (this had to have been identified in testing) and refuses to acknowledge it leaving their customers holding the bag. Onkyo knows that the vast majority of people buying their products do not come on AVS and find out about these things before they buy, so they know they can keep on selling them and absorb the ones that come back. Makes we wonder what problems there will be on the 806??? I'm not so naive as to think there are not issues with other AVRs. But some are minor, I think this is major and impacts the very purpose for which you buy this product. So I'm going to start looking deeper into the Pio elite and Yamaha's (I don't care for the Denon sound).

If anyone from Onkyo is secretly reading these threads... shame on you for your lack of support to those whose money goes to pay your salary. Don't you get it????

Don't believe them because I called them WAY back during the summertime and I had the exact same response about resetting the receiver and that this was their first time hearing about the audio delay. Quite upsetting that they are still saying the same things to this day...

And btw, i just bought this new sound card for my PC. It's one of those higher end cards with the highly-lauded CMI-8788 chip that does dolbydigital live and dts connect and all that fancy stuff. Highend cards like Auzentec Xplosion and HT Omega Claro+ are based around this chip. And guess what? it suffers from an audio delay also that you can't get rid of. I haven't measured it but its about as bad. Now I can't even imagine playing a video from my PC through the Onkyo805; i'd get almost double the delay i had before! Quite a disturbing trend...

So if this is the trend, I wonder if I ought to start buying stock in compaines that make Video Buffers. Is there such a thing?

I returned my 805 and bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH from an authorized dealer for nearly the same price I paid for the Onkyo. It sounds great, does not suffer from lip sync issues, and runs much much cooler than my old 805. I can finally enjoy my home theater again without staring at people's lips and driving myself crazy!

Update: I called the Service Center in Denver one more time and convinced them I was told by Onkyo Customer Service to talk directly to a tech before sending it in. It turns out the firmware upgrade that they are applying is 1.06 after all. Being as I already have 1.06 and the Audio Delay there wasn't much they could do for me. Oh-well... So I'm sending it back.

I still can't get over how many glowing reviews I read about this unit (which it deserved,) but absolutely none of them mentioned the problem that we all seem to have.... really makes you wonder.

I think some people are more sensitive to the problem than others. Since Onkyo has confirmed that this problem is there and is related to the DSP chips, I'm sure just about every unit has it. Whether or not some people recognize it or admit it, its probably there.

Bill3508

Definitely. Did these reviewers even bother to watch any movies with it? If they have such trained ears, how could they not notice something this obvious?

OK been reading through and i havent really got a clear answer on it; can this be fixed by onkyo with a firmware update?

ANyone know if the 840 has any issues with delay? Also, does it correctly add +10dB to the LFE channel on Multichannel audio? The wife almost beat me down tonight and forced me to enable the speakers on the TV. I have an $800 receiver sitting there and we're watching TV with the sound coming from two 15 watt 3.5 inch full range drivers.

I guess the 805 will have to go. Even HD-DVD seems to have the problem with all speakers set at 30ft and delay set at 0. It seems in sync sometimes, then it seems to drift off later.

Man oh man, I can't believe these suckers made it through engineering and beta test...and I also can't (not for the life of me) figure out why in the heck they thought they'd need additional user-enabled delay whne there is already a minimum of 70-something ms when sync is set to 0. Do they think there are displays that delay the picture by more than this?

Well what sucks is that i just bought this sucker for the HDMI passthroughs to clear up a delay i had on my old system i wish i would have read this forum first! But im not going to get rid of it. I Just hope there is a way to firmware update this problem!

I haven't tried the latest firmware but from what I've read from others, I haven't heard it's been conclusively fixed. More frustratingly, Onkyo hasn't even made any claim of what the firmware is supposed to fix. It depends on what you're worried about though. The delay is an issue mostly for watching HDTV. DVD's look fine to me (or at least I don't notice any delay). Some folks don't notice a delay watching TV but I can't explain that one. You'd figure either everyone would have it or nobody since these are national broadcasts.

So am I the only one that sees that rotating banner ad for the Onkyo 805 on this site. As many issues as this receiver has AVS sure doesn't have a problem taking their advertising $.

well to be honest its really only a small issue that could be fixed if Onkyo gets too it! And the rest of the complaints are a handfull it is still a powerhouse receiver! Were do you download the latest firmware i seem to be lost on onkyo's site.

O and does anyone have a TIVO series 3 HD with cable cards. I wonder if there is a problem with that. I will be hooking my up soon with that. (at least the cable cards to receive hd programing) right now all i watch is SD.

I'm assuming you meal 804, if so then no, the 804 has no audio sync problems. The only problem reported with the 804 was many units had hum coming from speakers at higher volume. Mine does it once I get past -5, which I've only done twice. It was noticable watching the Prestige on dvd as it was recorded low had to have the volume turned up to around -4. Again, hum was only noticeable on dead quite scenes.

Bill3508